Need some feedback.

[linx]

I'm designing an aquarium and want to filter it with a ats. but i allso like to minimise the cost of bulbs,
i have a oceanrunner 6500 as a return pump, and that will feed the ats. the ats is double screen,
lighting is three T5 bulbs with custom made mirrors.
The aquarium
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/8k29ch2l_bur-mynd2.JPG
The setup (too lazy to draw the plumbing)
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/9257vpaq_bur-mynd.JPG
And the ats
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/oz9l118v_ascrubber-mynd.JPG
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/ttm7ukcn_ascrubber-mynd6.JPG
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/ymeca9qw_ascrubber-mynd5.JPG
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/k8se5jpb_ascrubber-mynd4.JPG
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/mf3hs9wh_ascrubber-mynd2.JPG
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/92ukw4y4_ascrubber-mynd3.JPG
the screen is 12x18" on the pic, but it's not a final measurment. the tank will be 130 gal mixed reef, the overall system will be 160 gal,
with heavy fish load. I might add a second one later if this one will note cope.
The ats is 25x16x8" but i have a small problem, no one knows what T5"HO" is, but they recognise warm white and cool white, will that do?

[SantaMonica]

Assuming you want 24 inch bulbs, which are 24 watts each, yours would be 3 X 24 = 72 total watts. This is a bare minimum for an average 130g reef, and not enough for a heavy fish load.

You have to make sure they are T5HO bulbs, and not just T5 bulbs. "Soft" or "warm" is fine.

You do have one advantage; the acrylic box will pool water and algae at the bottom, and the 3D growth will double the filtering power, but only at the bottom where it pools. To make it pool, move the overflow drain up to about 6 inches from the bottom. Then, move more bulbs near the bottom, so that 2 bulbs will be in this 6 inch area. Most of your filtering will then will take place at the bottom when pooling starts; the upper portion of the screen won't be doing much.

Three T5 bulbs will not cover a 12 inch tall screen very well. Ideally, you want a bulb every 2 inches; this would give you 6 bulbs. This would be 6 X 24 = 144 watts, which is about 1 watt per gal, which is what you need for high filtering / heavy load.

Since 24 inch bulbs put out light for about 20 inches, you could extend the length of your screen from 18 to 20 inches.

Cleaning: I see how the pipes lift up an slide out of the box, but how will you lift the screen up and out without hitting the top of the cabinet?

[linx]

hmmm i need to do some redesign on it, i have time i finish my school in two years. :roll:
He will be in a drawer or a slider, slides in and out.

[linx]

I found a LT 24WT5 HQ 830 Warmwhite (made in germany) today, it's 22" long 3000k and is supostu be a HO bulb.
The waterproof lamp fixture i bought gives me 2 1/2" between the bulbs, don't know how I fit the mirrors in that tight spot.
But since i'm using the bulbs from two sides i thought that i would be getting at least 70% of the wattage
equally on to the two screens, 3x24x0.7(x2)=101W (still not enough i know)
why would that not work?
My reflectors should reflect about 70% of a normal reflectors.

[SantaMonica]

You can't get more wattage from a bulb than the bulbs give off. 3 X 24 = 72 watts. 4 X 24 = 96 watts.

[linx]

new design missing reflectors.

http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/u8lhj22d_ascrubber7-mynd.JPG


You can't get more wattage from a bulb than the bulbs give off. 3 X 24 = 72 watts. 4 X 24 = 96 watts.

you are over simplifying things. i meant you could get more out of the bulbs that way,
not bump up the Wattage...

[SantaMonica]

Much better design.

[mikepao13]

What is the plan with all that wires?

[linx]

There is a 5mm gap behind the lamp fixture where the wiering will be.

[mikepao13]

very nice

just waiting to see actual pics

[linx]

I agree, this is much better.
thanks for your advice! :)
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/pmomft6t_ascrubber-myndx.JPG
but i need to work on the plumbing a bit, the ats will be in my livingroom so i want it to be quiet.

very nice

just waiting to see actual pics

thanks :)
but you will have to wait a bit for that, i'm not building it yet, maybe this summer if i'm lucky.

[mikepao13]

Cool

[SantaMonica]

No no... the regular drain has to be at the bottom; only the backup drain can be up high.

[linx]

No no... the regular drain has to be at the bottom; only the backup drain can be up high.
ok gotcha, :) i'll fix it

theoretically if i would like to take this design and enlarge it (stack it side by side but still as one piece)
to fit on a 2000 gallon aquarium how many stacks would i need? :roll:
10?

[SantaMonica]

Start with 3 or 4 and expand from there.

[linx]

did some changes, but now i need some nice looking cable fixture.
i was thinking of something like on a computer, but i have no idea of what can be done and what not in this.
what do you think of it so far?
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/l5m27385_ascrubber-mynd-2.JPG
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/tujlsbdd_ascrubber-mynd-1.JPG
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/1g9hqmbi_ascrubber-mynd-4__(1).JPG
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/toj6o3ui_ascrubber-mynd-4_(2).JPG
http://www.fishfiles.net/up/1103/qbp52pik_ascrubber-mynd-4__(2).JPG

[Floyd R Turbo]

Very interesting build. Where are you going to get the split reflectors? Or is that just a concept? I haven't seen any T5HO reflector designed to split a lamp signature like that.

[SantaMonica]

Yep looks good.

Keep in mind though, that one-sided screens are not as efficient as two-sided screens, for the same area and wattage.

[linx]

Keep in mind though, that one-sided screens are not as efficient as two-sided screens, for the same area and wattage.

Thanks for the feedback and quick reply´s :)
About that, my reflectors should maximise the bulbs output and ther for minimise the performance drop "to what degree i dont know"
but i was guessing it would have at least 70% of a scrubber that is two-sided.
I would realy like your opinion on this because it's my understanding that you can serves both screens with this kind of lighting
but you need to double the pump to serves both screens.


Very interesting build. Where are you going to get the split reflectors? Or is that just a concept? I haven't seen any T5HO reflector designed to split a lamp signature like that.

Thanks! yep the reflectors are a bit different, i'm a thick plate craftsman
(currently studying mechanical engineering) so i'm going to make them my self.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Interesting...

What SM is saying though is that you cannot get more power out of available light. The reflectors will add to the efficiency, but what it comes down to is that 4 x 24W of lighting = 96W and that's only enough for a 100 gallon system (full capacity). So if you take your setup and put a single- sided screen on either side of it, you would still only have 100 gallons of filtering capacity, because normally a single sided scrubber uses reflectors to utilize the light from the back of the lamp, so you get the full intensity on one side, and then with 4 lights on one side in such a configuration you end up with the same coverage/capacity as 2 light with reflectors on both sides.

With your design, the reflectors are only re-directing the light that travels away from the screen, and between the lamps, to the screen on either side. Effectively, you are halving the light intensity to each side of the lamp. So while it may appear that you can squeeze something out of this arrangement of lamps, you are effectively making 2 single-sided screens lit by half the power of a normal single-sided screen (lamp & reflectors) so it's like 1/4 power screens, so you're only going to get 100 gallons of filtering capacity out of it, no matter how you slice it.

I hope that explanation makes sense. The only way to make it a 200g scrubber with the configuration (center-lit) is to have 8 lamps on individual reflectors, alternating direction.

[linx]

i see what you're saying, but if that is true then ther is no benefits of running this kind of a system
and i'm basically wasting about 3000 l/h.
i'm not fully convinced it's so linearly dependant, how would be the best way to measure it?
luminens in 2" distance, tvo bulbs with normal reflectors v.s two whith mine?

i'm not trying to be a pest about this just to cut down the running cost.
thanks for the advise and quick reply's. :)

[Floyd R Turbo]

No, you're not wasting any energy, you're just re-directing it. T5HO are much more efficient than CFL watt-for-watt because of the linear design - CFLs lose much inbetween the spirals. But still, you can't squeeze any more photons out of a lamp, you can only re-direct it with a highly efficient reflector. I use the TEK-II on mine (they're awesome)

But, if you're comparing your design to a design with 2 lamps w/reflectors on each side, they are essentially equal as far as scrubbing power goes, but the latter has 1/4 the screen area and 1/2 the required flow.

[linx]

Well tests finally over!!! Then i can finally continue with this project :D , i will be building it soon and installing it in a freshwater system that i have acces to.
The only changes i have made to the drawings is to make the mirrors diamond shapes.
I'm going to test the light output with the original design and then again with mine, then we have at least some readings about this design.