Freshwater scrubber

[kerry]

I have three Saltwater scrubbers that are just amazing and do wonders for my tanks. Now I want to put them on my freshwater tanks so I can enjoy the same lavish comforts my SW has. My first victim would be my 150G tank. I am very successful with my SW builds, I have two of the three that are the successful slanted horizontal type which keep my nutrients anywhere between zero to just detectable. One of the slanted ones is going to get a LED upgrade here in about a week.
Anyway thats another thread.
My question is has anyone had any experience with using these ATS on FW. It will be the traditional vert. lighted on both sides type. I would like to be clear of any potential pitfall if I could avoid them. I am sure its pretty straight forward as the SW water is but, if anyone has any advice on problems they have encountered it would be highly appreciated.

[SantaMonica]

FW is the same, except possibly the growth sometimes is long thin hair, which can clog your drain. Other people can tell you about theirs.

[kerry]

I feared that with my 40G SW build so I incorporated a 2" bulk head drain in the scrubber tank and still have a couple left, I ordered extra with future builds in mind. I have an Oceanic 150 trickle filter sump tank (it has bio ball media) that I am not using so that is an option to. I thought I could incorporate it into my 150G FW system and put the screen over the inlet area that could be fed by a CPR CS150 Overflow Box 1600 GPH weir that I could control by ball valve. I can also use a small acrylic 6G tank as I did on my SW build which is similar to the SM100 build but just bigger. I can not think of a real good reason to use the Oceanic 150 trickle filter if I am running a scrubber besides the fact I have it laying around not doing anything. I think the small acrylic tank makes more sense as the bio ball trickle filter would be a bit redundant in my opinion. Please, any ideas, thoughts, or comments are welcome.

[kerry]

[attachment=0:1uegh6kl]2011-09-26_05-44-22_857fix.jpg[/attachment:1uegh6kl][attachment=1:1uegh6kl]2011-09-26_05-44-37_487fix.jpg[/attachment:1uegh6kl][attachment=2:1uegh6kl]2011-09-26_05-44-46_333fix.jpg[/attachment:1uegh6kl]Here are some pics of my FW scrubber. I will be posting the nutrient results as this tank can hit 80PPM nitrate in a weeks time.

[NarkyMark]

Hi Kerry,
I'm sure if your tank can hit 80 in a week you will be growing the green stuff in no time!
Also although it may seem a waste (depends on how you look at it I suppose) Co2 injection helps to green it up too, I only use 20 Bubbles PM, but I use that anyway to lower the PH of my tank slightly!
I found that until the green stuff starts growing greeeeeeen :) that nutrient reduction is limited, it still reduces just not as much!
Good Luck!!

[kerry]

At this point I have a very, very small growth of light brown. I decided to take some green algae from a SW screen and seed it into a small spot on the FW screen, we will see if this works. So far its all looks like the growth of a new SW screen. Its been up since last Sunday and its making progress so I guess all is good so far. I took a pic of the screen but the slight growth of brown algae cannot be seen. I hope to have enough growth by the weekend to get a good pic.
NarkyMark
I have never used the co2 as I have never really had a planted tank and I also dose my own homemade mixture (baking soda, Epsom salt, and instant ocean) to increase my pH to 7.4 on this tank so co2 would defeat that purpose I think. I have considered co2 as an experiment seeing I always have a couple large cylinders of co2 on hand for my paint-ball hobby but, I have not convinced myself I have a real need or reason for it yet.

[NarkyMark]

....Yeah Co2 will definitely lower the PH, via the production of carbonic acid - which is the result of carbon dioxide dissolving in water....You can also try dosing with chelated iron, that will kick start the motha greeeen :) But TBH you are probs just best sitting it out and being patient, unlike me :D

[NarkyMark]

....Also I'm not sure that the same strains of SW Algae can actually grow in FW conditions and Visa-Versa, so I'm unsure that the crossover seeding will have much effect - I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can confirm or deny this though.....

[kerry]

I think you are right on just sticking it out. I figured I would let it take the natural course of direction seeing I am going to be posting the progress every couple days or so.
I was patient on the SW scrubbers and they all came out just fine.
I have however, wondered about people putting iron nails in the filter areas of their tanks to get iron levels up I guess. Has anyone got an good advice on that?

[NarkyMark]

Plants do not readily absorb rust (Ferrous Oxide) unless they are totally desperate, it is the chelated iron that you need - As non-chelated iron (or Free Iron) is toxic to fish!! So AFAIK putting rusty nails anywhere near your biological filter is a no-no if you have any fish or invertebrates!

[kerry]

I figured that was a soupy mess. I seen threads on some other sites and maybe here I dont remember for sure with nails and screws in with the filter media!!?? I could not see how rusty metal would do anything that was good for your tank. I was totally blown away with disbelief of this concept!

[kerry]

OK, here it is!! Finally enough growth to get a pic!!! I will be testing the water today after work for nitrates as this is the water change day for the 150G. I am not sure how much of a difference if any there will be in the nitrate level with only a little growth. Usually its between 40-80PPM in a weeks time so the test tonight will tell.
[attachment=0:1ti7q07g]2011-09-29_20-26-47_567fix.jpg[/attachment:1ti7q07g]

[dtyharry]

To me that looks like a screen that has just been cleaned.

[kerry]

To me that looks like a screen that has just been cleaned.
This is my five day old FW screen. I just started this last Sunday night.

[SantaMonica]

Needs more light.

[kerry]

I will add some more, I need to increase the flow to. Its hard to tell from the pic but the center is yellow like its burning the algae. I need more and bigger slots in the delivery pipe as it blasts past the first and middle slots and really comes out the plugged end slots in a larger volume.

[kerry]

OK, here is the growth after one week. I took these scrubber pics on Sunday afternoon but, the nitrate was taken Saturday. The nitrates have not seen any noticeable difference yet, as I figured.
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[attachment=0:2n0kdscm]2011-10-02_11-33-40_730fix.jpg[/attachment:2n0kdscm]

[NarkyMark]

Some nice growth starting there Kerry! Looks better than mine did on my first week! 8-)
Nitrates should start coming down in a few weeks time!

[kerry]

I have a lot of hope for it! It grew algae faster then my SW builds ever did. I have got my 660nm red LED's in and am thinking about supplementing some of the lighting with LED's seeing SM suggested more light for it.

[kerry]

Here some growth pics from the evening of the 5th, three days growth. Its looking real good. The nitrates have not climbed at all, they are staying around 40PPM. Usually by this time they would be well over 80PPM+++. I did not do any water change last weekend either. I hope to see them going down in the next few days as the screen growth is getting much better now.

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[SantaMonica]

It's going to grow well.

[NarkyMark]

Its looking great Kerry! 8-)

[kerry]

Well as of Saturday I cleaned the screen again and had to do a water change as the nitrate stepped up over 40PPM. So far this has cut my water changes down to once every two weeks as before I was changing water twice a week. I do not think this screen is large enough for my tank capacity. I am working on a dual screen build with two almost full size screens. My pump is only good for about 16" so I may need another pump to fully drive the two screen build. I will try to post some pics of the new build today maybe.

[SantaMonica]

Move the lights to the center.

[kerry]

Move the lights to the center.
I plan on having three lights, 2 outside and one middle.

[kerry]

I have finished my dual screen scrubber for the 150G FW tank. This on has 224.25 sq" of area. The old single screen was only 108 sq". So with just more then double the area I believe I can take care of all the nitrate problems. I still need to upgrade my pump, my pump is good for 16" of screen length and I have 17.75" of length now. I thought about running my Rena Filstar XP3 in the supply for now which would give me plenty of flow until I buy my new pump. It also has a lid that closes, you can see it in the third pic. The screen is 9.75"x5.75"
[attachment=2:1wqsoqi4]2011-10-15_15-46-28_62fix.jpg[/attachment:1wqsoqi4]
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[kerry]

The fourth pic.
[attachment=0:324j41al]2011-10-15_19-05-43_958fix.jpg[/attachment:324j41al]

[kerry]

Here are some pics taken yesterday of the new dual screen growth, notice the long algae growth leading to the drain. The nitrates have only gotten to 30PPM since the water change on 10/10/11 and the change over to the dual screen on 10/16/11. Not bad results, I hope to see the nitrates going down when I test them this weekend.
[attachment=1:ba3dlait]2011-10-19_17-37-34_937fix.jpg[/attachment:ba3dlait]
[attachment=0:ba3dlait]2011-10-19_17-37-42_812fix.jpg[/attachment:ba3dlait]

[SantaMonica]

Yes FW tends to grow long thin straight hairs...

[NarkyMark]

Looks Awesome Kerry! 8-)

[kerry]

Thanks, just had a first great crop of algae with the dual screen. I am going to get a nitrate reading on the 150G Sunday afternoon when I do water changes on the 75G and 125G.

[kerry]

OK, the FW scrubber is not producing the results I expected. The screens (twp) are 9.75"x5.75" so I have 56sq" on each screen for a total of 112. Initially I thought I had 224 because I understood each side to count into the total, later I put together (thanks to Floyd) that you do not double this. Anyway its a 150G with 112" of screen. I have three lights as the pic show in earlier posts at 23 watts each, yes underpowered but I get tons of green. The problem is The nitrates are still over 40-80 PPM in no time at all. I use to do weekly to bi-weekly water changes now I am about every two week, so its helping but NO where near as good as the SW is. I feed about 6-8 cubes worth a day with nothing else being fed that food. It has 6 Jack Dempsey's and a pleco.
I do have two other filters with bio-material, could this be creating huge nitrates in the nitrogen cycle. I thought about taking the material out but was afraid to upset the bacteria level. I am afraid it might cause a cycle if I do. I thought maybe just taking the bio-material out of one and then the other a week or two later. Any ideas out there??????? I NEED HELP!!!!!! I am not even sure if I should remove the bio-material.

[SantaMonica]

8 cubes is a good load for a new screen. With the new guideline, 8 X 12 = 96 watts, but that assumes all the watts are getting to the screen. I estimate you are losing half of your 69 watts because of the reflectors.

Your bio media is indeed making nitrates, but if you have no rock or sand, you will need it for a while.

I'd say, increase the wattage to 33w bulbs, and work on making/buying good reflectors. Also you can experiment with how many days before cleaning.

[kerry]

Thanks for the info SM, I will do that. I want to get the reflective glass like plastic for the reflectors. I actually have gotten better results with the DIY beer can deal then I did with the hand polished Lowes unit??? Also note that the beer cans only cost me a buzz LOL, JK'ing. The screens are not to new they have been up for about a month. I get real good green algae growth, its very long!! Well, let me get on with this new task and I will post results in a couple weeks or so. Thanks again Sir.

[kerry]

Well I just added 3 new CFL's @ 40Watts each. I will keep y'all posted. Thanks again SM!!

[alex leblanc]

are this tank still running with scrubber?

[kerry]

I have switched the 150G to SW and only have scrubbers on my salt tanks. I need to get one built for my FW 125G.