jnad nano scrubber 4

[jnad]

Hello!

My latest nano scrubber is nearly ready, i just is going to give the clear scrubber box a paint job beafore it is ready to run.

The scrubber is set up to filtering 1 cube a day screen 7,5cm x 12 cm
Bulbs is 2x11W Osram 2500K , it is really easy to convert this lightning to led if wanted.

I have more details later, and here is some preview pictures beafore painting:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium026.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium017.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium020.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium024.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium023.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium021.jpg

jnad

[SantaMonica]

My favorite so far.

[jnad]

My favorite so far.

Hello!

Thanks for the positive feedback SM.

The box is now ready painted, and i probably starting the scrubber today or tomorrow.

What amount of light time (hours) would you recommend to start with for this setup, the standard 18 hours on, or should i run the bulbs shorter beacuse using 11W bulbs?

jnad

[kerry]

I like it!!! I am glad I held off on making my new scrubber for my 10G nano. I am going to use your concept for my 10G build here in the near future.

[SantaMonica]

You might want to wait even a bit longer than that, since the new scrubber version in 2012 will be a snap to diy and install in a nano, and won't require a sump below or a drain-down on top. And you already have the parts.

[kerry]

You might want to wait even a bit longer than that, since the new scrubber version in 2012 will be a snap to diy and install in a nano, and won't require a sump below or a drain-down on top. And you already have the parts.
I still have another 10G nano waiting for that one!! It just has a cheesy scrubber on it now, its a hang on back unit with a piece of plexi glued to the overflow part so the water runs over the plexi that has a screen (2.75"x6") affixed to it and uses the hood light to power the growth. It works good for this tank as its used to grow my pods for my mandarin. I just throw in a couple pieces of shrimp in every two days or so with a little dose of phytoplankton.

[jnad]

Hello!

Kerry:

I think this type of scrubber would be ideal for led ligts, you will get better coverage of the screen. The light source area would be more the same as the screen with leds than using bulbs.

SM:

Should i start with lights on half hours beacuse of using 11W bulbs or should i start with 18 hours on and after a while reduce the light hours?

Will your new scrubber consept be best only for nanos or is it also going to replace the SM100 types of scrubbers?

If you have room for a scrubber on top or under the aquarium will the standard on top or below aquarium scrubbers still be the most effective or will the new scrubber outperforme the standard scrubbers?

jnad

[kerry]

Yes, I was going to do LED for it as that is what it is now.

[SantaMonica]

Try 18 hours.

The new one will probably replace it on many tanks, and certainly on all nano's.

[jnad]

Hello!

The scrubber is now running on my tank. It seems to run wery nicely, even flow over the screen and great light. There is no micro bubbles or noise from the outlet, but there are some resonance sound from the scrubber, but i think it will easely be fixed.

Here are a picure of the scrubber ready to go:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium027.jpg

jnad

[Drewfish]

Did you do the acrylic job yourself? This is really impressive. Will this go over the tank or sump? I'm new to ATS and still researching but really love this design. Nice and clean, great job.

[jnad]

Hello!

Thanks for liking the design.

I did do the job myself, but this design is very simple to do.

The scrubber box is just a box for food storage, the only gluing you have to do on the box is the outlet. It is very simple scrubber to make , all the tools you need is a dremel, sandpaper and some pvc glue.

jnad

[Drewfish]

I may have to try this. Very simple. Looks alot more complicated. Where did you find the container?

[jnad]

I may have to try this. Very simple. Looks alot more complicated. Where did you find the container?

Just a local shop here in Norway.

Look for food storage containers

jnad

[jnad]

Hello!

I have now been trough a qouple of cleanings of the screen. There is brown, yellow and some green algae on the screen, but the algae is not growing in front of the bulb. There is almost (just some) no algae right in front of the bulbs, the algae is growing higher on the screen where the screw socket of the bulb is.

I think this is a sign for too strong light, i have now reduced the light hours to 10 hours.

Do you think this is the right to do?

jnad

[SantaMonica]

Yes. Or try two shorter periods of dark.

[Ace25]

Seriously awesome job on that build! I think that is by far the nicest "nano scrubber" I have ever seen. Well done!

[jnad]

Hello!

SM: Thanks for your answer.

Ace: Thanks for the positive feedback on my nano scrubber design.

I am considering to use leds for ligtning in the scrubber, i am just not sure what led setup to use yet. Looking for some led setup that is easy to put in the scrubber, maybe 3x3W on both sides of the screen.

jnad

[jnad]

Hello!

I now runing the lights on the scrubber 10 hours a day. I do think the growth on the screen is coming along now, but if not i will try to run the lights 6 hours on - 6 hours of - 6 hours on - 6 hours of. Or change the bulbs to 8 watts.

I do have growt of green hair algae in the bottom of the scrubber box though :D

jnad

[jnad]

Hello!

Here is an uppdate of 7-days of growth, there is brown, yellow and green algae on the screen.

On the pictures you can see that there is a spot with less algae below the middle of the screen, this is where the center of the bulb is. I might change the light hours to 8 hours on - 4 hours of - 8 hours on - 4 hours of to let the alge rest from the intense light, what do you think? Or should i continue to light the screen 10 hours on and 14 hours of like i have today, have been running this light periode for 1 week.

In this first picture you can se how easy it is to lift the whole pump, tubing and screen out for cleaning. When the pump or tubing not need to be cleaned it is also easy to just take the screen out by cutting the strips.
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/101211.jpg

Here is bouth sides of the screen:
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/1012111.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/1012112.jpg

I have ordered some leads to try out in my nano scrubber, looking forward to trying it out. The leds are two units, one on eatch side of 3x3W 660nM.

jnad

[SantaMonica]

Looks cute :)

[jnad]

Yea it is a kind of a cute little nao scrubber :D

Lokking forward to try the leds i have ordered. I think the leds will give me more light cover over the hole screen. The cfl bulbs i now is using are covering about half the screen only, the socket for the bulb is taking up mutch space in a small scrubber like this.

About the leds i am a little concerned that 9W of led on eatch side of the screen will be too strong. But if so i have the posibility to run the two led units in two paralell strings from one driver, this wil give me aproximately half the light power.

jnad

[jnad]

Hello!

Here are some pictures of another 7 days of growth.

No really green yet, but green/yellow and some brown/black color at the screen, maybe it is on the way, what do you think?

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium032.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium033.jpg

jnad

[SantaMonica]

You can always try increasing the hours even more.

[jnad]

Hello!

Here are some update pictures of 7 days growth, no green yet, any suggestions to get green? The light time is now 18 hours.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium040.jpg

Other side:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/algaescrubber%203/Akvarium043.jpg

Tecknically the scrubber is running good, still waiting for the leds to arrive, should be here any day now.

jnad

[SantaMonica]

Needs a little iron or flow.

[jnad]

Needs a little iron or flow.

Thanks!

Cannot find any Iron supplement for aquarium use in my aquarium shop.

Is it possible to use Iron tablets for human use that you can by in the drugstore, and just mix with ro do water??

jnad

[SantaMonica]

You can try tablets, or nails, if you don't have corals.

[jnad]

You can try tablets, or nails, if you don't have corals.

Thanks, my nano reef is stuffed with corals, i will try tablets.

jnad

[SantaMonica]

I meant that if you have corals, I don't know if it's safe to use either one. Some people have. You can try.

[reeftanknewbie]

Great build on this. What size tank is this on?

[jnad]

Great build on this. What size tank is this on?

Hello!

Thanks.

The tank size is 63 liters.

jnad

[jnad]

Hello!

Yes, finally the leds have arrived.

I do not want to expose these leds to the moisture inside my scrubber so i will mount the leds on a easy way.

I will place the leds on top of the scrubber container just like the lights on the early SM bucket scrubber version.

I will first try to keep the 30 degrees angle optics on beacuse there will be some distance from the leds to the screen, and the light will hit the screen in an angle of 45 degrees. The distance from the leds to center of screen will bee about 5 inches.

really looking forward to try out these leds

jand

[kerry]

I am waiting on my LED's too, I hope to see them this week so I can do some work on the new LED light for the scrubber. Keep us posted.

[jjj]

nice work is the box homemade

[jjj]

sorry i found the answer:o

great job find so much inspiration in this site .. but also i find out how crappy my own akryl work is :D

[jnad]

Hello!

Sorry for late answer to your question, but i see you found the answer.

Thanks for liking my design.

jnad


sorry i found the answer:o

great job find so much inspiration in this site .. but also i find out how crappy my own akryl work is :D

[jnad]

Hello!

Leds are now mounted in the scrubber, i am excited to see if this light make any changes.

jnad

[reeftanknewbie]

I am excited too. Post some pics when you can.

[alex leblanc]

+1

[jnad]

Yes i will post an update after 7-days of growth with led.

jnad

[jnad]

Hello!

Here is another update of 7- days growth. The growth seems a bit more even, and the black growth on top of screen seems slowly go away.

But i am a little bit dissapointed, i did hope there was more growth, there seem to bee less growth this week. I have been feeding very little this week, maybe this is the reason for less growth, or is the leds to far away from the screen. Distance is about 3 inches.

[kerry]

I am not sure if the algae is starting to burn or if you need to dose some iron? Either way your nutrients should be in good standing.

[SantaMonica]

Looks like normal growth when the light is weak.

[jnad]

Hello!

Have now moved the leds closer to screen, distance is now about 1,5 inches.

If this not is close enough i would think that these leds is no good.

Now wait another week :)

Kerry: I have dosed iron for one week now, using my wifes medisin :) iron tablets :)

jnad

[kerry]

I think tonight I am going to start building my vertical LED for my 10G scrubber. Its time to update my horizontal flow unit I have now. I think mine will be about 1.5"-ish as well.

[jjj]

hey jnad seemed often it takes a while to get it to run quite well .. tube where the scrubber goes up how wide is the opening and how much is sitting up in the scrubber tube do you think you would be able to use 8w instead of 11

[jnad]

hey jnad seemed often it takes a while to get it to run quite well .. tube where the scrubber goes up how wide is the opening and how much is sitting up in the scrubber tube do you think you would be able to use 8w instead of 11

Hello jjj!

I dont use the 11w bulbs anymore, i am trying out some new leds.

jnad

[jjj]

yes I know I have read the thread carefully ;).. the matter is that we in the Danish reef forum talks a lot about your scrubber and we intend to build one similar to but with 8 w bulb do you think it could work?

[jnad]

Hello again!

Yes i think a 8W bulb will work perfectly.

Thanks for liking my design.

jnad

[jnad]

Hello!

Here is 6-days with led, after moving the leds closer to the screen you can se at the picture that the leds now are too close. There is burned alge in the middle but actually there is some green color starting at the top and bottom of the screen.

I think that earlier when the leds was 3-inches away there was too mutch of the light that missed the screen beacuse of the wide angel of the light beem and disctance from screen. Now the leds are closer and burning the screen.

I have today changed the light time from 18/6 to 6 hours on and 6 hours of instead of change to a longer distance between leds and screen.

Do you think this is the right thing to do?

[Ace25]

That sounds like the right thing to do, lower the lighting schedule at this point. Not 100% sure on the best light schedule though, you will have to play around to see what works best for you but I think your on the right track by reducing the time the LEDs are on.

[SantaMonica]

I think if you leave it at 18 hours, and let it go 14 days, it might work.

[jnad]

Hello!

Thanks for your answers and suggestions for light times.

When i look at the pictures from the two last cleanings of the screen in this tread i am not sure if the growth on the screen looks better in todays pictures or last week? Maybe you can tell?

And why does the leds seem to give less growth than the CFL i used beafore, does the algae need time to adapt to the new light?

jnad

[SantaMonica]

Give it 14 days and let's answer it then.

[alex leblanc]

Are you using the 660 nm from Leddna?

[jnad]

Hello!

SM: I will try to wait 14 days to next cleaning.

alex leblanc: Yes i am using the 660 nm leds from Leddna.

jnad

[jnad]

Hello!

I have just done some test measurement of the 3x3W led units i am using.

To my suprise one unit of 3x3W leds seems only to pull about 2W total.

The measurements with my instrumet was done in front of the driver and the results was:

Volts: 17,04
Amps: 0,11 (with only 2 digits on my instruments this rseult can maximum be 0,119

In watts this is : 17,04 x 0,119 = 2,03 W

If my instrument is right these leds are not 3x3W pr unit, maybe the leds themselves is 3w a piece, but the watts one singel led is using is about 0,68 W pr single led.

This is probably why the leds was to weak in a distance of 3 inches from the screen. I also using these leds without a heatsink, just using the plate the leds are mounted on from the dealer. I dont think this would be possible if the leds really was pulling 9W pr unit, the leds would then have BURNED OUT.

PS! I KNOW THAT THERE IS SOMEONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM THAT USING THE SAME LEDS, TRY TO DO A MEASUREMENT TO DOUBLE CHECK MY RESULTS.

I will also try another instrument just in case mine is giving wrong measurements.

jnad

[alex leblanc]

What adapter do you use? I'm interest as I have the same led and I'm using 12v 1A adapter and they are really bright and hot. Thats why I put them on a heatsink!

[jnad]

What adapter do you use? I'm interest as I have the same led and I'm using 12v 1A adapter and they are really bright and hot. Thats why I put them on a heatsink!

I am using a 18,5V / 3,5 A power, it is more than enough to run 2 units.

jnad

[alex leblanc]

Its make me a bit nervous as my led will be at 3 inch of the screen without possibilities to put them closer. My screen gonna be 4x2.5 inch with 2 3x3watt led. Anybody with this led have good result with them?

[kerry]

I did with my horizontal scrubber that I just converted to a vertical. Mine grew great algae I hope and am sure its got to be better vertical. I am closer though at about 1.5" on each side. I am using 4 (2 per side) 660nm now with the vertical, I used four in the horizontal but the screen was almost 7" long.

[jnad]

Hello!

Here is another 14-days of growth, the leds still burns the screen so i have now moved back the leds to a distance of 3 inches from the screen. I have green algae on top and bottom of the screen, and green algae in the outlet and bottom of the scrubber. So the green growth seems to show on the places longest away from the leds, therefore i have moved the leds back, i might also cut down on the light hours as well.

Any suggestions?

Pictures:


jnad

[Keithp]

I like this scrubber a lot because it looks clean from the outside. I didn't realize just how small it is until I looked at the paper under the first picture and your screen dimensions. If you find a way to run those LEDs at 4 cm that satsifies you, you could make it out of an even smaller box! :)

Is the last picture of the splash guard? It looks like it might grow algae as well as the screen. If it is that wet anyway, I wonder if you could just put it up against the algae screen.

The box has a lot of algae at the bottom. Are you having to take everything out of the box weekly or are you just leaving the algae on the bottom? I put a removable panel on the bottom of mine so I can remove everything that grows algae without moving the acrylic box.

You could extend the mirror all the way around the screen for a little more scrubbing light and darker room. It made for some great pictures without it though.

I wish I could get away with a scrubber that small. Our goldfish are pigs and we indulge them especially when our garden is producing more vegetables than we can eat. The tank is probably too small too.

[Keithp]

Are you using optics on the leds or relying on your DIY mirrors?

[jnad]

I like this scrubber a lot because it looks clean from the outside. I didn't realize just how small it is until I looked at the paper under the first picture and your screen dimensions. If you find a way to run those LEDs at 4 cm that satsifies you, you could make it out of an even smaller box! :)

Is the last picture of the splash guard? It looks like it might grow algae as well as the screen. If it is that wet anyway, I wonder if you could just put it up against the algae screen.

The box has a lot of algae at the bottom. Are you having to take everything out of the box weekly or are you just leaving the algae on the bottom? I put a removable panel on the bottom of mine so I can remove everything that grows algae without moving the acrylic box.

You could extend the mirror all the way around the screen for a little more scrubbing light and darker room. It made for some great pictures without it though.

I wish I could get away with a scrubber that small. Our goldfish are pigs and we indulge them especially when our garden is producing more vegetables than we can eat. The tank is probably too small too.


I like this scrubber a lot because it looks clean from the outside. I didn't realize just how small it is until I looked at the paper under the first picture and your screen dimensions. If you find a way to run those LEDs at 4 cm that satsifies you, you could make it out of an even smaller box! :)

Is the last picture of the splash guard? It looks like it might grow algae as well as the screen. If it is that wet anyway, I wonder if you could just put it up against the algae screen.

The box has a lot of algae at the bottom. Are you having to take everything out of the box weekly or are you just leaving the algae on the bottom? I put a removable panel on the bottom of mine so I can remove everything that grows algae without moving the acrylic box.

You could extend the mirror all the way around the screen for a little more scrubbing light and darker room. It made for some great pictures without it though.

I wish I could get away with a scrubber that small. Our goldfish are pigs and we indulge them especially when our garden is producing more vegetables than we can eat. The tank is probably too small too.

Hello!
The last picture is not the splash guard , it is the outlet. I am using an overrun edge as an outlet not pipe, this type of outlet is running compleatly quiet and do not produce any bubbles.

I am cleaning the inside of the scrubber box for about onse a month.

I am not using the mirror reflector Wien using the leds, only when using cfl bulbs.

Yes if i get the screen going green with the leds i could build a scrubber mutch smaller. I have an idea for a new scrubber config that will be very small. It will of course be using leds and there will be some changes in the screen/splash guard config that will make it possible to runn more flow over the sceens than todays models. This change will also make the scrubber smaller.

I want to test this new models beafore i show it on this forum, i hope i finish the testing beafore summer.

Jnad

[jnad]

Not using optics or mirror.

[jnad]

Hello!
I do want to back of on the light hours to see if it could help getting more growth. The light sceduale todagers is 18/6.
Should i just back of to for example 12/12, or is it better to try selvreal shorter periods during the day, for example 8/4 or 6/6 .

Any suggestions?

Jnad

[SantaMonica]

I think several periods are supposed to be better than one, but I have not seen a difference yet.

[jnad]

Hello!

The green growth now seem to appear on the screen, the burned spot in the middle is still there (no algae at all on this spot) but the green now clearly start to grow on the rest of the screen.

The green algae on the screen is only short, but the growth is nice and even on the screen.
It is also starting to grow gha in the bottom of the scrubber box.

I wil post some pics on sunday when cleaning the screen, then it is 14 days of growth.

Jnad

[alex leblanc]

Good news!

[jnad]

Good news!

Yes i hope the screen growth is on the right way now.

Forgot to mention that the light sceduale is now 6 on 6 of.

Jnad

[jnad]

Hello!

Here is another uppdate pictures for 14 days of growth, it looks like the screen is coming along now with more green growth and the burned spot seems to slowly be covered by algae.

Funny is that i had better growth with my cfl bulbs, i had more growth and the algae was mutch harder to scrape of the screen. This algae i now have with leds is less growth and the algae is very easy to scrape of the screen, it almost falls of i think.

Is these cheap leds no good or should i give them some more time beafore i swap back to my old cfl bulbs? Do the algae need more time to get use to the leds, or is the light too strong. I am now using the light sceduale
6/6

jnad

[SantaMonica]

They are just not giving as much light as the CFL's

[Floyd R Turbo]

The real question is: how does your tank look, and how are you water parameters? If these are all fine, then it matters much less how the screen is growing.

[jnad]

Hello!

Tanks for your comments.

Floyd: The tank is looking good with no nuiance algae, only have some macro algae. The scrubber is the only filter in the tank so i have no doubt about that the scrubber is doing a good job filtering the water. Just trying to achive some green growth, maybe not neccesary though.

SM: i think maybe the light is a problem as you suggest. The leds on the heatsink is placed in a tight cluster config, therfore the main light source is too strong just in the center of the screen and loow on the outer edges. Then when i place the Leds 1,5 inches from the screen the leds is too strong, and as now placed 3 inches from screen the light is too weak. I think if the 3 leds had been placed on a line after eatch other instead of in a cluster on the heatsink it would be better.

I will consider to do a rebuild of the scrubber to use cfl bulbs again.

Jnad

[Keithp]

Would a diffuser material like the film on bathroom windows or for overhead flourescent fixtures help w/ jnad's burn problem? Even a piece of saran wrap might help if it is stuck to the splash screen where the burn is happening.

I think Floyd is right. If the screen used up all of the nutrients for it's current growth you aren't going to get the growth you are looking for no matter how much light there is. Maybe I am just hoping the LEDs work because I want to try them too.

[Floyd R Turbo]

it's a little hard to see what it is in these pictures, but you get the idea. About $10-$12 USD for a 24 x 48 piece, should be able to find it in a hardware store, in the US big box stores they are in the section next to the ceiling panels for the grid-type drop ceilings (rather than in the lighting section, which is where you would think it would be). If you know where to find the white or reflective egg crate material, it will generally be right next to that.

http://www.tools2parts.com/Plaskolite-1A30011A-p/4362-2505.htm?gdftrk=gdfV21593_a_7c1384_a_7c4726_a_7c43 62_d_2505

http://www.osh.com/eng/product/prismatic_clear_23_75_in_x_47_75_in_acrylic_light_ panel/6535785

[Keithp]

Most hardware stores here also carry 24x24 pieces. Some hardware stores that sell doors and windows will also sell diffuser film made by 3M that you could apply. There are at least 15 different diffusing patterns that I have seen. You can get a similar effect by scratching up an acrylic panel. Scratched acrylic will probably reduce light transmission more than the other options.

I like the 3m and scratch options because you can allow direct light to the portions of your screen that are not burned and diffuse only the parts that need it. Hopefully you can increase light time and move the light closer to the screen resulting in a smaller scrubber container.

[jnad]

Hello!
Tanks for your answers.

I have not done any changes to the lightning yet, but now after another 9 days of growt it looks like the screen burned spot is slowly closing up with algae growth. The algae on the screen is growing very slow, mutch slower than with cfl bulbs, but it is now getting a green color, and as i said the burned spots seem to slowly Get som algae growth.

What should i do, just let it grow for 14 days between cleanings?
Feed more..?

It is cleaning time to the weekend, i will post some update pictures then.

Jnad

[SantaMonica]

14 days

[jnad]

Hello!

Here is some puctures of 16 days of growth, it is getting greener, the dark color on the pictures is actually green color. I also have a lot of green hair algae in the bottom of the scrubber box (see picture).
The burned spot in the middle of the screen is closing slowly up with algae, but it is still there, should i cut down on the light hours? the light is now on for 18 hours.



jnad

[SantaMonica]

Looks like needs more flow.

[jnad]

Thanks for answering.

Yes i think so too, i have green growth where the flow is highest on the screen. It is kind of strange though, i have plenty of gha 3d growth in the bottom of the scrubber, i think it is low flow there. I will see if i can get more flow to the screen, its a challenge to not get any splashing beacuse of the small tubing (only 12mm).

jnad

Looks like needs more flow.

[kerry]

Drape saran wrap or trash bag plastic over the supply pipe. Just cut it to fit. This forum link shows its use. http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1771-No-slot-alternative-for-vertical-scrubber

[jnad]

Drape saran wrap or trash bag plastic over the supply pipe. Just cut it to fit. This forum link shows its use. http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1771-No-slot-alternative-for-vertical-scrubber
Tanks, i will try

[jnad]

I can now see signs of nutrients build up in the tank, i think this is beacuse the slow growth with my leds. I have not decided what to do yet, rebuild the cfl bulbs into the scrubber, or simply keep up with water changes and wait for the new scrubber design from SM.

I give myself a couple of days to decide :)

Jnad

[SantaMonica]

I'd wait for the new design. Will fit the small tank easily.

[jnad]

Ok, i keep up doing some water changes then :)

[jnad]

Finally, my screen is green :)

[kerry]

Awesome!!