Handeling DOCs

[Doompie]

Oke, after the very nice and informative discussion about browning of the SPS corals, and regarding the light levels in tanks will never even come close to natual levels, it can be usefull to remove excess DOC's.

Now I came up with only two options:

1) Activated Carbon. The most logical option I think. It's cheap(er), it's easy, it's manageable. But needs to be replaced and regenerated by hand..
2) Ozone. Because ozon oxideses DOC. In other words, ozone splits organic molecules on contact and this renders DOC's back to more basic components, where the carbon component leaved the tank as Co2. So this is just a process which continues on and on, and no manual actions requiered..

What would you choose? and off-course why? Or maybe you know an even better option?

[RkyRickstr]

Or option 3... Get more light 8-)

[SantaMonica]

Don't forget to get on all the other forums and tell people to stop dosing pellets, vodka, vinegar, zeo, vitamin c, amino acids, and especially foods (solid and liquid), because all of these DOC's are going to turn all of their corals brown tomorrow, even though their corals are fine today.

[kerry]

LOL!! I cannot get past the why people think they have to much DOC. This has to be limited by bacteria right???? As I understand it, there is going to be some kind of balance between how much DOC there is and the bacteria to consume it, kinda like the nitrogen cycle right????

[RkyRickstr]

and especially foods (solid and liquid), because all of these DOC's are going to turn all of their corals brown tomorrow

Im a bit confused... Then why feed constantly every few hours? Wouldnt that be the same?

[SantaMonica]

Corals eat food particles continuously. Especially NPS. Especially at night.

Food particles immediately put DOC into the water.

[Ace25]

and regarding the light levels in tanks will never even come close to natual levels
It is easy to make a light that exceeds natural levels in both intensity and spectrum. Your just not going to be able to do it with T5HOs and MH would be too expensive, so LEDs are really the only way to do it short of plasma bulbs. My lights match the intensity of the sun at the surface and has more spectrum than the sun, when turned up to 100%.

The biggest drawback to using Ozone IMO is it is hell on equipment. Ozone eats certain plastics and rubber so you have to make sure everything you have is "Ozone safe", especially the skimmer because your supposed to release the ozone into the intake of a skimmer. I remember putting an Ozone generator on a tank once and it ate the rubber O ring that holds the collection cup on a AquaC Remora skimmer in about 24 hours. I knew it could be bad, but I never thought it would eat rubber that quickly. As long as you make sure everything is Ozone safe and you have an ORP monitor/controller to make sure you don't add to much, ozone can really be beneficial on a tank in a lot of different ways. It is an expensive up front cost to get it going though.

I would not recommend using carbon long term. Think of it as a quick fix tool that can have some negative side effects on certain tank inhabitants. Use it only when needed and remove when done.

[Aeros]

Has anyone tried running ozone in a scrubber only tank?

I would love a non carbon option. It's an expensive hassle replacing it weekly.

Also, my SPS aren't nearly as bright they are for the first few days after new carbon. And even with GAC, I have a brown SPS, and a partially RTN'ed (keeps RTN'ing, growing, RTN?!?) SPS.

I would like to hear some usage results before plopping down more $.

[Doompie]

I started this topic not because I have too much DOC already, but the end product of many are two different types off DOC's, as I mentioned in this topic (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1599&start=20).

@SantaMonica: That would exclude all types of DOC's, but there are 2 forms off DOC's:

1) Labile DOC - is rapidly turned over within minutes to days, and represent a major dynamical component of the marine carbon cycle
2) Refractory DOC - can exist for thousands of years, maybe even milions and is Most of the measured standings..

The first one is NOT an issue with an ATS driven tank at all..there is a big stock of consumers from Labile DOC's..
The last one is going to be a long run issue for aquariums. Which most likely can be removed by the use of O3 or carbon.

My peronal preference goes to the O3 option sofar, to mix the O3 into the water in normal levels.

But in this book: http://books.google.nl/books?id=tMeuQ4v ... er&f=false (http://books.google.nl/books?id=tMeuQ4v_m0YC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=reduction+DOC+with+ozone+seawater&source=bl&ots=H5mQh0L6Wu&sig=rIeRnBQpbdh34fWXn3SO9K925b4&hl=nl&ei=cNfdTomGG8n1-gbyvLnUBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=reduction%20DOC%20with%20ozone%20seawater&f=false)

It's From 1992, oke little bit dated, but not out-dated..There they say that in practice the oxidation process rarely happens. And that it is not a very usefull method of reducing the concentration of DOC..

So i'm in doubt..

There they advise to use ativated carbon. And they state regeneration is not effective in any way, unless you use 4000kg/day of carbon..
Also a nice graph with active carbon efficiency.. (page 107)..where you can see that GAC based on Hardwood is the most efficient in removing DOC's..

Even though, I do believe that Ozone can help against the long term DOC. Philips markets a product called the purifier. Which is originally ment for fresh water, but it is actually a very small ozone generator.
I found this topic, http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk ... hp?t=69139 (http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/showthread.php?t=69139)
There is also an expert from philips responding there.
Also there are a few people who use it here on reef tanks. And the results seem satisfying..no idea how it will work out combined with the ATS...

So a lot to consider for a joyable long run..

[SantaMonica]

The last one is going to be a long run issue for aquariums.

It would also then be an issue for the ocean.

[Doompie]

Thats a good point..

Saturation level is just unknown..if there is any..

Will just wait and see what's going to happen