First time scrubber!

[jimrawr]

Hi all. After having some GHA problems and doing some research, I ran into the idea about using a scrubber to grow the algae in my sump rather than on my live rock. I build a small scrubber which hardly fits in my sump, but it should be enough for me tank. I have a 92g corner tank with a 20g sump, and my screen is 9.5"x11". I use a Mag 7 for flow, but it tuned back. When I did a water test for GPH I got around 400gph so a bit higher than recommended. If I close the ball valve a bit, then I dont get good spread of water accross my screen. My lighting is 2x23" spiral bulbs. That was the highest my hardware store had, do you think I should get higher wattage bulbs? Also do you guys think my reflectors are OK? I dont have them exactly head onto the screen as you will see im pretty tight on space. So far its been up for 4 days and I do have some algae already starting to attach and grow, but very little. Any feedback would be nice


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20111213_212755.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20111215_173218.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20111215_173232.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20111215_173249.jpg

[Ace25]

Looks good to me. That is about the best your going to be able to do as far as flow/size. Too much flow is much better than to little (to some degree, obviously don't want 2000 GPH shooting out the slot). I also run a 700GPH pump on one of my ATS's and have it full open. I have a valve like you but I had the same issue, when I closed the valve slightly the flow wasn't reaching the ends for even coverage.

Your lighting.. well.. it is adequate and about the best you can do with CFL. Obviously if you can find slightly higher wattage (26w or 32w) it would be better, if you go much higher, like a 42w, then you will need to reduce the hours the light is on. I think the CFLs is the weakest part of your setup, but that is the "normal" lighting method, and I still use 42w CFLs on one of my scrubbers. It will work and will certainly help get the screen growing, but I think you would have much more growth if you looked into putting red LEDs for a light source instead of CFLs... down the road. Not something you need to do right away, just know in the future if you wanted more growth then going with some 1w or 3w Red LEDs will give you much more growth than any type/wattage CFL bulb out there.

[jimrawr]

So today is one week, I have some redish growth on it but not much.. Should I clean it or wait a week?? I don't think I'll be able to get much off even if I try to clean it

[SantaMonica]

Give it 14 days.

[jimrawr]

How long until you should start to see a reduction of algae in the DT? I ended up cleaning the screen last week(didnt see your post telling me to let it go until after it was cleaned) and I am getting more growth in the last 7 days than I did in the first seven days. Also I changed the bulbs from 23w spiral to 43w spirals. I will wait another 7 days before cleaning this time. Just curious as to when I should see an effect on my DT as the algae continues to grow

[jimrawr]

Here are some updated pics. The outsides that arent being hit with as much light are growing more green, and the high light area is more brown. Also what are all the little bubbles that seem to be trapped? Is that a good/bad sign?


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20111229_181032.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20111229_181124.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20111229_181103.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20111229_181010.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Bulbs are too strong. Switch back, or add iron.

Let grow 14 days.

[jimrawr]

SM, why do you think I need to add iron?? I have GHA growing in my DT without a problem.

Im curious to see what gave you that thought because ive been thinking my tank is iron deficient for awhile now since I was having problems growing macro in the sump

[SantaMonica]

Yellow grows mean low iron.

[jimrawr]

I cleaned my screen today, even though I wanted to wait a few more days, because my slot was getting clogged. I need to cover that area so its not getting light as to not clog. Anyways here are the pictures of the screen off. I was able to get around a small handfull of growth off the screen scraping with a credit card. MUCH more than my first seven days, and this was a ten day cycle. You can see the green is growing where there is less light, so I will go back to smaller 23w bulbs but not sure why when the recommended for my screen 9x11 is 50w.


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120101_125519.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120101_125540.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120101_125519.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Because your flow/iron is too low to support a 50w bulb, and because your light is too focused at the top.

[jimrawr]

Because your flow/iron is too low to support a 50w bulb, and because your light is too focused at the top.

I am a little hesitant to dose iron right now while I still have GHA in my display, I dont want that to take off in growth. As far as the flow, I can tune back the ball valve but when I calculated it was 400gph on a 9" wide screen. Although this week it was definitely getting restricted by algae growth in the slot so I need to take care of that so flow is staying constant between cleanings.

Do you think I should go to the weaker bulb, and wait for the scrubber to out compete the GHA in my display and then dose iron, or you think dose iron now and maybe run the risk of having more growth in my DT as well??

[SantaMonica]

Dose the iron, and pull the reflectors back 2" and point them to the middle of the screen.

[RkyRickstr]

I had the same problem untill i put the bulbs vertically and bought better reflectors.. now the light is spreading better and i got green.. i even added a second bulb per side and its growing nicely..

[jimrawr]

I dosed iron and I will continue to dose it for awhile to see how it helps or not. Going to try and see how I can manuever the reflectors to be more centered, it will be a bit tough I am tight as hell on space (92g corner tank doesnt have much room in the stand).

A side note, I notice for the last week or so my skimmer is pulling out WAY less than normal, almost as if its off. Guess the scrubber is doing its job even though I dont have much growth on it, I do have growth non the less

[SantaMonica]

Skimmer and scrubber performance should not really be related.

As for space, the new scrubber design will fit into almost anything.

[jimrawr1]

Heres is week 3

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120110_175713.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120110_175658.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Definite burning. Cut the hours by 2.

[jimrawr1]

Ive already cut it to 12/12 about 4-5 days ago, should I go to 10 on 14 off?

[Floyd R Turbo]

with 43W lamps, yes. Remember you are pretty much at double-lit going from 23W to 43W, so going back to 10 on would be better.

[jimrawr1]

Thanks guys, will reduce the lighting again and see what happens this week.

[jimrawr1]

Well reducing the photoperiod and changing the bulbs back has definitely removed that burn in the middle of the screen. I am also starting to see some green algae growth on those areas which I can say I am happy about :) Its minimal right now but I see it coming. Tomorrow will be 7 days since last cleaning, thinking I should let it go 10-14 days?

[SantaMonica]

Yes.

If you see brown wheat looking spots on the screen when cleaning, then it's too long and the roots died.

[jimrawr1]

Dont think I will have that problem for awhile, definitely growing in but not exactly off the screen yet

[jimrawr1]

Here is this weeks harvest. Its 12 days of growth. Lighting is back on the smaller 23w bulbs, and 12/12 cycle. Should I go to 10 on 14 off? Still getting a bit of a burn in the middle. Also its difficult to tell in the pics but there is some green growth in the middle of the screen, but mostly red/brown which looks like Cyano to me.

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120122_100050.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120122_100116.jpg

[kerry]

I was having a problem getting my screen to get green until I re-sized it to fit my feedings, I built it bigger to meet future plans but, that was working against the screen getting green. I feed 2-3 cubes a day so I cut my screen from 9"x6" to 6"X6". In 30 hours I had more green then ever!!! I could not believe the difference. Sure its not an inch or two thick yet but it far better then I ever had.

[jimrawr1]

Well right now I am feeding one cube per day, and then about a 2x2 piece of Nori per day. I think thats well under my screen size, but at the same time my goal isnt to get my screen green, but to remove GHA from my display tank. So if the screen is over filtering for what I am feeding, that isn't necessarily a bad thing right? It should at least be removing whatever the GHA is feeding off of, no? Or is the screen only effective when its got green growth on it??

In essence, I dont want to feed my tank more with the purpose of getting green on my screen. Thats not my main goal. Main goal is get rid of this damn GHA in my display.

So i guess my question is, can a screen size be too big and not effectively reduce/remove po4 and no3 in tank because its oversized? My po4 is always low (.01-.05) and my NO3 is usually .2-1.0. Not terribly high on either of them but enough to have some GHA in display

[kerry]

A larger screen is not really more powerful, the most powerful is the thick green algae. If you can get that to happen its way better then a big screen with brown algae. I did have a larger screen on my first one, its was almost a full sheet. It got my nutrients down to zero-ish but it was not as fast as when I built my second one with a 9x6 screen which produced about 30-50% green on the screen. I suspect now with this 6x6 screen to be at 100% green.

[jimrawr1]

Interesting.. I didnt think it would work like that, figured larger will remove more even if not all green. Can anyone else chime in?

[kerry]

It does make some since. With a screen to large the algae is very thin, with a smaller screen the algae grows outward and longer like grass grows longer. The longer the strands of algae the more it consumes like longer grass requires more nutrients then shorter grass. I am sure there are others that will post. There are a lot of people here with much more experience then I have. If I am wrong it would be good to know as well!!!!

[SantaMonica]

Larger screens are less powerful. Cut yours down to just the bulb area.

[jimrawr1]

How about if I do this. Recut the slot pipe to be 5 or 6 inches in width, and let the length remain 10 inches like it is right now. My current screen is 9.5"x10" so I would be reducing the size by about one third or so. I cant really make the screen shorter because then it wouldn't be touching the water, and it would be too loud. I also cant shorten the size of the scrubber because there is no way for me to get my lights any lower in my current setup. So do you think this will work? 6x10" screen with the same light power/schedule.

Thanks

[SantaMonica]

Just tape-up half the slot. Then you can use a narrow screen that will reach down to the water line. Focus all the light on the screen.

[jimrawr1]

I just made a new slot pipe because the other wasnt very even. Is there a reason one side of the screen gets a lot of flow, and the other side about 75% less water? The slot is about as even as I can get it by hand, and water flows nice and evenly across the screen. The problem is that both sides dont get even flow.. How to fix this??

Ill post a pic of the slot in a second

[jimrawr1]

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120122_142823.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120122_142841.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120122_143042.jpg

[jimrawr1]

Got it to flow evenly with a little adjusting, and the new 6 inch wide screen is in place. Well its the old screen just recut to size

[SantaMonica]

The flow will fill-in as it grows. Make sure all the screen has light.

[jimrawr1]

Ok so its been 9 days on the new scrubber screen, I am going to wait till its two weeks before cleaning. Definitely a lot more green growth, but still have the burn spots. Should I go to 8 hours on 16 off? I am on 12/12 right now with 23w spiral bulbs

[SantaMonica]

Well burn spots aren't helping, so back the light up a 2 inches, and go back to 18 hours.

[jimrawr1]

Problem is I really have no room im my sump. The lights are as far back as they can possibly go and are being blocked on both sides from going any further back.. I may have to make some adjustments to the scrubber to be able to accommodate the light in a different manner. Here is a picture so you can see what i mean, the light is blocked from behind unless I raise it up, and then the blub wont be pointed at the center of the screen at all. The light on the other side of my screen is even worse with less room to work with.

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120201_134909.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Add some iron.

[jimrawr1]

Tomorrow is 2 weeks without a cleaning. The algae is growing in pretty well, much better than before, but I dont really see a reason to clean it yet. I feel like right now with the growth it has on it, the tank is being filtered well. If I clean the screen it will take a week again before its filtering much. Should I just let it continue until I see a stop in growth or algae falling off the screen, or should I clean it tomorrow regardless?

[SantaMonica]

Clean it. The roots are starting to die.

[jimrawr1]

The algae isnt so thick that the light cant get through, or does that not matter?

[SantaMonica]

Yellow rubbery growth seals off the water flow; green hair does not. So the screen is not getting flow.

[jimrawr1]

I see thanks

[jimrawr1]

Ok here is this harvest done today which was for two weeks. My PO4 has been steady at .02 for a few weeks now, and nitrates between .2 - 1.0. PO4 was usually are .05-.08 before I started the scrubber, and that was with use of GFO. Ive since removed GFO so I am happy that its progressing, albeit slower than I expected to get good growth. The diatoms I had for around 5 months are now pretty much completely gone, but still have GHA and cyano. The GHA seems to be slowly receeding, but I am not positive. WAY less algae film on my glass and back of tank wall. Reducing the size of the screen helped, and makes me think I need to reduce it again. I may try and build an acrylic ATS that I can put ON my sump, this way I can get the light focused in the middle of the screen. Right now the screen is too low and I cant get bulbs/reflectors that low due to the size of the sump. If I could get an acrylic scrubber above the sump and then two drain lines with PVC so there is no splashing, I think it would work much better for me. I have also dosed a good amount of iron, though I dont know exactly how much since I dont have a test kit for iron.

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120205_120024.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120205_120009.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120205_120307.jpg

[SantaMonica]

You don't need any smaller screen, because the growth is not thin. It's now thick. Now it's just flow and light that will help more. Or more time.

As nutrients come out of the display, the screen will get more green, until it reaches equilibrium.

[jimrawr1]

Ok thanks for the reply, I will let things be for now and stop with the adjustments. Hopefully in 2 weeks there will be even more growth/filtration

[jimrawr1]

I am getting ZERO growth this week, the screen looks like it was just cleaned but it was cleaned 6 days ago. My NO3 is zero, and my PO4 is .02, could this be why? No change to flow or lighting, if anything my lighting has improved as I was able to get the bulbs centered better. Diatoms are gone from display, but I still have some GHA (very minimal and not growing).

Any ideas?

[SantaMonica]

You can double your feeding if you want.

[Bottenbrew]

Is that the aqueon proflex model 2 sump? It looks just like mine and I am running into the same issues with light placement etc. How did you get it resolved?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Hey is that you Charlie?

[jimrawr1]

Its the model 3 aqueon, yes. I will take pics later so you can see how I have the lights. Here is my last two weeks of growth. Also in this period I started to carbon dose (nopox), and I still had more weight then last time. I have also been feeding a good amount more lately. This measurment was 49grams vs 44 last time, but I also removed more water from the algae than last time

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120220_114753.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120220_114809.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120220_115158.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Definitely a burn spot. Up the flow, add iron, or reduce hours.