small size tank top ATS for fresh water

[Keithp]

I have built 2 ATS units and am including both here. These use a somewhat different approach in order to reduce the size and be more appropriate for a small tank. Many thanks to SantaMonica for providing a starting point and encouraging information exchange.

I have one of the bio wheel filters with 2 cartridges sized for 30 to 50 gal on a 29 gal tank but with a 7" fantail, 2" ryunkin, 7" pleco, and lots of food it is under powered. We also put several philodendrons in but the roots started snagging tails so my wife removed them. Then the tank was out of balance and turned green. We added a gravel filter with little effect and replacement philodendron but they take time to establish. At least the roots can be confined to the bubble tubes now. The tank requires daily 20% water changes to limit green water so i decided to try building an ATS. I believe the ammonia is very high but my wife who is not color blind assured me that the test color is not on the test chart. I have tried multiple brands in the past and found they all provide different readings. Our fish sit on the bottom too much and i have had to medicate for white fungus on fins so i know there is a problem. Ammonia absorbing chips have no apparent effect on this tank or maybe I didn't put enough in. Reduced feedings helped stop the fungus but the fish are still not happy. Photo of daily food on a post-it note:

I couldn't find much info about fresh water ATS so I decided to experiment as cheaply as possible. I also wanted a small, efficient system so I came up with the idea of using a single lamp surrounded by a screen on 4 sides. In order for it to be efficient, the water must be limited to one side of the screen so that all of the water is lit. I decided to build it out of a Costco nut jar. I used 2" pvc central vacuum tube to direct water around along with some pvc pipe and bulkheads made from sprinkler parts. The pvc parts cut well but I had too much space between pvc parts and the curved jar sides so i tried gluing on some thin plastic from a salad container. Well nothing i have would reliably hold the different plastics together so I sandwiched on another piece of pvc and it held.

These jars can be roughened but it is not easy and will never look like cactus because the plastic is brittle.

I hooked it up and it ran perfectly and silent. It was quieter than the whisper air pump and had nice even flow.

After a few days the green water started to disappear. The green water algae had started to block the filter sponge and by cleaning it every day, it got completely clear. All was not good though. The ATS was not growing algae on its sides as intended. After a 2 week trial, there was almost no growth on the rough plastic sides but there was 1" long strands growing on the pvc at the top and bottom. I siliconed on some craft mesh but it splashed and was noisy. I gave up on this scrubber because the opening was too small especially after installing the pvc and cut up my hands. In these photos, a light bulb socket extends through the hole in the lid. It is the same socket used in the 2nd try.

Had it ever worked, cleaning would require disconnecting the fill tube from the pump. The entire ATS then would be brushed with a clean dish brush.

sorry, my pictures are limited.

------------------------

2nd try:

I wanted to be able to experiment with different material and angles if splashing happened again so i set it up to use solid material of any type. All sides are clear 1/4" Acrylite FF acrylic except the lid which is mirror acrylic. FF won't hold up in a large aquarium but should be fine for this and it was all out of the bargain bin. I decided to use cement/fiberglass boards that i had lying around because I heard algae likes cement. This is the stuff used in shower walls and before tiling. In order to avoid bloody knuckles, i decided to carry the water in a trough around the outside. My wife hated the visible white pvc in the first setup so most of it is gone on this version. I used some thin bent acrylic to press the boards against the acrylic weir and avoid water going behind where it is not lit. I ended up making it taller than originally intended because the acrylic scraps were a little larger than my design and I saw no reason to waste it. The water returns to the tank down a waterfall with an acrylic landing just below the water surface similar to many hang on back filters. The light is sealed with silicone but may be enclosed in acrylic or glass later. It was wired through a jam lid for that purpose. I will decide after trying other light bulbs if necessary. A brace down the back of the tank prevents tipping and helps with leveling. At the pump connection, a small piece of acrylic is used to break water momentum that would shoot out the top otherwise. A number of changes were made during construction so the design is only an approximation of the actual. The boards are vertical instead of slanted and the weir is not notched. Otherwise it is very similar.

system volume = 29 gal
pump (Maxijet900) flow =200 gph approximate
"screen" width (1 sided) = 20 in
"screen" area = 140 sq in
light = 14w cfl 5500K on 16 hours
projected power use =14 kWh/month = $4/month (mostly offset if other filter is abandoned)
PG&E rate at 3rd tier is $0.295/kWh. This is usually where we fall for additional usage.

acrylic cost = $10
lamp fixture = $5
timer = $15
pump = $18
all other items were surplus from other projects.

It appears mostly professional from a distance, even though my first acrylic project in 15 years is somewhat sloppy with drips and bubbles in joints. Amazingly, there are no leaks and no silicone was needed except on the bulb. This version is much less bright in the room since the light is surrounded by cement board and a mirror. Light leakage is bright enough to act as a night light for our stairs and foyer but indirect and not blinding while looking at the tank.

The water trough catches detritus because it is too deep and slow on the side away from the pump but I am not sure what to do, if anything.

I was concerned that the ATS would not sit flat on the tank but it is near level and water does flow on all 4 sides. I may make adjustments if growth is uneven. For now it adds to the experiment.

The internal flow is smooth with no splashing. The return is not as quiet because it is undersized but i believe i can fix it by placing another small piece of acrylic below the release. I may also have to raise the bottom cement board a little more. Alternatively I may enlarge the opening. It runs nearly silent when I put an additional piece of acrylic to expand the landing just below the tank water line Until the tank is clear enough to see the problem, i will just wait.

If another version is necessary, I may use black acrylic on the outside. This version may get paint.

I had some water on the floor the first day. It turned out to be splashing where water returns to the tank. water wicked between the lid and ATS, then down the back of the tank. I found the problem within 3 hours so there was less than a quarter cup and no damage. The fix was to fill the tank to replace the water now in the trough. Raising the water stopped the big splashing and made it much quieter. I will make a few more adjustments to eliminate any chance of this happening again once the water clears.

After 3 days, algae is starting to grow on the cement. Since the green water had a head start, it took off first and the tank looks very green. At least I know the lights will grow algae. I hope the hair algae starts soon so the water will clear. The fish seem to have more energy.

After 6 days, the cement is looking greener but still most of the growth is in the water column. There is no noticeable increase in evaporation with the lid on. Interestingly, the side with the most water has the least algae. All sides are 1.5" from the light. I think maybe I should have scratched up the cement. I didn't because it was already somewhat rough. I think I will roughen one of the sides that has the least growth this weekend. Ammonia is still very high on the test strip but the fish are not sitting on the bottom any more. I am going to have to think about other possible materials to try growing algae on and maybe find a higher wattage light or a different spectrum.

[SantaMonica]

One thing with cement board, is that is a rough material, but it may also contain phosphate. But even if it doesn't, it does not have holes like plastic canvas does. So why not use canvas?

Anyway I'm looking into why some of your attachments showed up (4 of them) but the others didn't.

[Keithp]

If the green water eventually clears, I don't care about phosphate or surface algae. That Pleco will clean any stray growth in less than a day. I mostly need nitrogen processed for to keep the fish alive.

This tank is under lit for plant growth and I think that was limiting the green water since the tank experienced the same green water in the first setup. The only significant nutrient export is water changes and the house plant and they are not enough.

I intend to play with different materials including plastic screens since they are easily interchangeable. I am trying to keep flow on one side so a screen would have to be glued to something solid which is more work and the reason I am trying cement board first.

Has anyone else tried something like this?

The good thing about this setup is I can experiment with different material.

[Rumpy Pumpy]

Since it's freshwater, have you considered something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7e8AYLv8oo


Or since you're only worried about nitrate, why not try some of this in a cannister filter instead?

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/denitrate.html

(Used this before in FW & it does the job)

[Keithp]

Rumpy Pumpy, Thanks for your suggestions. I actually have a little bamboo in my other tank. The gold fish likes to eat the roots so it would have to be in a separate sump which I was trying to avoid. This room has very little light especially in winter and the house plant does much better than bamboo. I like the idea though and if I move the tank, I might try it. On the other hand, I expect this ATS to work so nothing more would be necessary.

I regret letting the LFS talk me into the biowheel instead of a canister but it is not easy to talk the wife into paying 5x when they said this it would be good enough. On the other hand I enjoyed watching my betta chase little white pods growing on hair algae and would like to start a salt tank that would benefit more from the pods. This experiment is both gaining experience and an inexpensive toy to play with so I have no regrets.

I have attached a few photos that got lost in the initial post.
16181619

Here are a few pictures at a week. There is actually some light green hair algae growing on the other two sides not in the photo but it is only in a few spots. It is soooo hard to wait for the thick growth in some of the pictures on this site.
16201621

Evaporation is a non issue with the cover on. The fish continue to look healthier and more active when I can see them through the green water. This fish has been trained to do tricks for food so the green water is frustrating.

[SantaMonica]

Nice build... have not seen one in at least a year.

[Keithp]

Well I couldn't wait for the tank to clear so I disconnected the pump and removed the media to fix the splashing where the water goes back to the tank. Since I could not see clearly where the splashing was coming from, I used hot glue to add some additional acrilic and flexible clear PETE from cut up food packaging. When I am satisfied with the function, I will bond it properly.

The new acrylic has the plastic on to make it easier to pick out in the picture. It's purpose is to make the water enter with horizontal momentum so it doesn't drag air into the tank which is noisy. The flexible plastic is invisible in the picture but it covers the open sides to help keep the water from wicking between the tank lid and the bottom of the acrylic. Some of the splashing noise was also from water driping in that open space so the flexible plastic is to provide a surface for the water to cling to on its way back to the tank.

1622

While it was out of the tank I also hot glued a few acrylic bits to the top corners because they were receiving too much flow and some of it was going down behind the board.

1623

I did not want to pay and wait for a real PVC bulkhead to be shipped so I made one which you see in this last picture. It is a pvc plug with a hole drilled through it and a threaded coupling with 2 rubber gaskets on either side of the acrylic. I wouldn't do it on the bottom of a tank but there is not much risk here since the 1/4" acrylic is way overkill. This last picture also shows a piece of the flexible plastic glued to the acrylic that is above the bulkhead. It is hard to see but this was done because the water was slightly elevated on this side.

1624

I have turned the pump on again and the flow is not quite silent but much better. I will have to find the last remaining noisy location once the water clears. The flow over the weir is definitely better distributed now.

[SantaMonica]

Really neat design.

[kerry]

Very slick!!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Nice acrylic work. I'm with SM though, why not just use plastic canvas?

PS you can skin that box with some 1/8" or 1/16" black acrylic and weld-on 16 pretty easily if you want to block the light well.

[Keithp]

Floyd,

I chose to use a solid material because it can be 1 sided. If I keep the water on the lit side only, It should need less flow for the same width of screen. This should keep the efficiency up. I have nothing against canvas except that there is no way to prevent water from going to the unlit side without a lot of silicone. I feel that reflecors are not 100% effective, especially these DIY pots that don't have ideal curvature so it may be better to wrap the growing medium around a single standard lamp with more direct light.

Thanks for your input.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I see where your thinking has brought you, but if the screen is held in place by surface tension, and all the algae grows on one side, because that's where the light is coming from, I think it would still work. You might consider using some material to act as a clip like what this guy used

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1387-Surface-adhesion-distribution-version&highlight=adhesion

and bond that along the top edge of the box then slide the screen into it. This would force the water to flow over the top of the clip and over to the lit side of the screen.

[kotlec]

That is interesting topic about single sided screen . I agree with Keithp that flow will be divided somewhat, but not expect to be big part. On the other hand will this underneath flow helps roots of algae to feed and not to dye longer ? That would be a plus. I am myself on the crossroad to cover acryl plate with plastic canvas or not . Hope Santa will clear that for us.

[Rumpy Pumpy]

Nice design.

Squeezes a lot of screen width into a small area and very efficient use of the light source.

Considered something similar a while back but with a circular chamber instead of square and a single piece rounded canvas screen, but couldn't figure out a way to hold the canvas in place reliably and still make it easy to remove for cleaning.


By the way, if you wanted to go with plastic canvas rather than solid screens a good way for you to hang them would be to use plastic channel like this

http://www.interiordoorsuk.com/images/1934/chasmood-sliding-door-drawer-systems-chasmood-no-77-double-channel-2m-overall-height-19-5mm-width-16-67mm-glass-size-4-7mm.jpg

Silicone the screen into one channel and use the other to hang it on the edges of the chamber.

[Keithp]

I see where your thinking has brought you, but if the screen is held in place by surface tension, and all the algae grows on one side, because that's where the light is coming from, I think it would still work. You might consider using some material to act as a clip like what this guy used

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1387-Surface-adhesion-distribution-version&highlight=adhesion

and bond that along the top edge of the box then slide the screen into it. This would force the water to flow over the top of the clip and over to the lit side of the screen.

If you look at my original attempt with the nut jar, I actually tacked on a screen. Part of the reason I gave up was because the water had a greater tendency to spray off the canvas. I probably could have fixed it but the nut jar was so small and hard to work with that I gave up instead. I just thought I would try it without the screen first on the acrylic version because it is easier. The cement board does not seem to have trouble growing algae and I didn't have to rough it up. Once the screen has fully established I may swap out one or more of the panels with an alternate screen or material just for fun.

The only reasons I think the screen may be better than the cement board is if they have undesirable chemicals or if the fact that they are screens encourages more transfer with the air and additional turbulence with possibly some slow pockets that might help attach algae. After thinking it through, I don't think the additional air exposure is all that important. I don't know what to think about turbulence and slow pockets other than I am happy to have less splashing. The cement board manufacturer specs didn't look to be a problem but I am not much of a chemist and you never know what might be added or naturally in the material. Just think of the children's toys from china with large concentrations of lead, mercury and cadmium going into their little mouths. The plastic screens and cement boards both have potential for bad substances. If I am wrong, please let me know.

[Keithp]

That is interesting topic about single sided screen . I agree with Keithp that flow will be divided somewhat, but not expect to be big part. On the other hand will this underneath flow helps roots of algae to feed and not to dye longer ? That would be a plus. I am myself on the crossroad to cover acryl plate with plastic canvas or not . Hope Santa will clear that for us.

I think algae likes growing on rock and concrete better than on plastic but base that on minimal experience and hearsay rather than scientific proof. If true, rubbing on a little wet cement to some of those vertical screens might even improve algae growth. Of course it may be because the rocks and concrete leach some phosphate like Santa Monica warned. Part of the beauty of this design is that the material can be interchanged easily but it would take more work to set up a screen than a simple board of whatever material. Also since I built it with clear acrylic a screen mounted directly to the clear acrylic would be too bright in the room. If you do something similar, use black acrylic, plan on covering it or be willing to live with additional room lighting.

I didn't think algae had roots like most terrestrial plants. I read what looks like a root is really more of a way to tie to a surface rather than nutrient uptake. Not sure where I read it though. If I am correct the material doesn't matter much as long as the algae sticks to it and it doesn't poison the water. PETE in food and drink containers is not very good for this based on my experience with the nut jar.

Having lights on both sides may help light the algae strands near the "root" which might make them stronger so I may end up needing to clean the screen more often to avoid strands falling off. I won't know until mine is more established. The whole point of my design is to limit power consumption so I only use one light, and a small pump only capable of lifting a few feet instead of from a sump. My Maxijet pump uses 10 watts vs. the biowheel filter at 14.4 watts and it would be a lot more if I had to use a pump in a sump. If using LEDs which are one sided, this design wouldn't make as much sense except that you can always find a replacement bulb quickly.

If I had a sump and a very large tank needing the scrubbing power of multiple lights, I would have built a more typical scrubber screen with tube lights and reflectors.

Good luck with yours.

[Keithp]

Nice design.

Squeezes a lot of screen width into a small area and very efficient use of the light source.

Considered something similar a while back but with a circular chamber instead of square and a single piece rounded canvas screen, but couldn't figure out a way to hold the canvas in place reliably and still make it easy to remove for cleaning.


By the way, if you wanted to go with plastic canvas rather than solid screens a good way for you to hang them would be to use plastic channel like this

http://www.interiordoorsuk.com/images/1934/chasmood-sliding-door-drawer-systems-chasmood-no-77-double-channel-2m-overall-height-19-5mm-width-16-67mm-glass-size-4-7mm.jpg

Silicone the screen into one channel and use the other to hang it on the edges of the chamber.

Rumpy,

About a week ago, I read the thread where you were considering the curved one but I wasn't sure how you were going to make it work. I was going to try and find that thread again to see if you had any success so I am glad you mentioned it. Circular would have an even better efficiency but it seemed more expensive and difficult to construct. Still I am sure someone will figure out how to make it happen eventually. The inside face of my cement board is 5"x5"x7" tall so even a small CFL is less than 3" from the farthest corner. The bottom panel is also covered with cement board and seems to be growing at a similar rate to the side panels.

If the cement board works well enough I probably won't try the screen because of the splashing and it is unnecessary work. I suspect my pump is not pushing enough water to grow as effectively on a screen where some of the water flows behind. Also there isn't much adventure in it since everyone knows it works. If you or anyone else can think of another material that you would like to see in action, I would be happy to insert it on one of the sides for however long it takes. Having an extra screen would mean I could feed the pleco with one while it is not in the scrubber.

[jnad]

Hello!
I see that you are using sement bord as an alternative to plastic canvas.

Have you seen this scenen material, i think it is great for single sided screen:
http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1183-jnad-nano-scrubber&highlight=Jnad

Jnad

[Keithp]

Hello!
I see that you are using sement bord as an alternative to plastic canvas.

Have you seen this scenen material, i think it is great for single sided screen:
http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1183-jnad-nano-scrubber&highlight=Jnad

Jnad

That material looks like it works pretty well. Did you ever get thicker growth? I tried to find the material on line but Google failed me. I wonder if your tank just didn't have spores for the hair algae. I kept tanks for years with no hair but once it starts, you are stuck with it. At least it isn't growing in your display either.

I have extra travertine and slate which I might try. I had heard slate is safe in tanks and I would like to try it. I keep the boxes in the crawl space and am not looking forward to crawling through spiders to get it.

I chose to go 4 sided to keep the board close to the light and because I think even really good reflectors are only adding 90% more light to 1 side. Even most professional reflectors are not shaped to reflect the most light possible. With my design, I catch 4 sides plus the bottom with direct light. My lid also has a mirror but probably has little value and I only added it because it was in the acrylic discount box.

Like you, I get some condensation on the lid but the light is warm enough that it is mostly limited to the trough areas so algae should not be much of a concern. I want to cover the bulb with glass or acrylic instead of sealing it with silicone to make it safer and easier to change but I also don't want to have to clean the cover. I am waiting to see how thick the algae gets and to see if there will be any spray before putting anything together.

Thanks for your link and for sharing your ideas.

[jnad]

Hello!
I almost got these Steni screens growing green in an other scrubber project i did.
Here is the scrubber: http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1425-jnad-algaescrubber-II&highlight=Jnad+algaescrubber

I do think these Steni plates is very good screen material in singel sided scrubbers. If i should make an single sided scrubber i would use the Steni plates again.

Jnad

[SantaMonica]

Cannot see the steni plates

[jnad]

Cannot see the steni plates

Look at post number 22 in the link. It is also the same plates i used in my first scrubber.
Jnad

[Keithp]

Well, My panels definitely grew. You can see them in a tub of water waiting to be cleaned while I was doing a 40% water change. I put the bottom panel into the tank for the pleco to munch on. He finished it within 5 minutes. The bare spots on the panel at the top are finger prints and the streaks near the bottom half are where a few spots of hair algae shaded the boards.

16491650

The growth was more uniform after I adjusted the water flow around the 1 week mark. prior to that, very little algae was growing in the areas with more flow.

It has been a day since I took the 2 week pictures and I can already see more growth than in the first 3 days. Oddly the bottom panel which is flat is growing fastest. Maybe I cleaned the sides too well.

I didn't have pictures of the panels in my initial posts. When I made these panels, I rounded the top on the inside face with an old rasp to make the flow more even and cut notches in the bottom edge for the water to escape back to the tank. The bottom panel has similar notches on all 4 sides but is not in the picture.

I noticed that the algae is more dense at the top than at the bottom of the side panels so I might want to use an elongated bulb instead of the curly one. In my mind this really isn't too uneven. For now I will continue to let it establish itself with no change to the setup or lighting.

As of the second week mark and before the water change, the test kits still read high. Nitrate 40-80 ppm (no change), Nitrite 1 ppm (no change), Ammonia 3-6 ppm (improved but still at the top of the scale). The fish seem happy now and are much more energetic so even if the tests don't show improvement, it is certainly helping. I have not seen any fungus since starting the scrubber and it had been a recurring/ongoing problem. I feel terrible for having such poisonous water and I hope this is my solution.

For whatever reason, the ATS is quieter than the biowheel filter now. I think it is because the tank water level is a little higher after the water change.

There is just a little trickle that makes it between the board and acrylic but it is enough to catch detritus which you can see in the overall picture below. I will probably have to add some overhanging acrylic extensions at the weir to avoid the ugly stuff getting trapped there where it is most visible. The funny thing is that it is catching more stuff than the two cartridges in the biowheel filter.

1651

I wonder if I could keep some small freshwater shrimp in the trough part. That would make it more interesting to look at. I am concerned they may end up eating the algae filter or getting sucked back into the tank. I am sure the goldfish would make a meal of anything that went back in the tank. Does anybody think keeping shrimp in the surrounding water channel is a bad idea?

[kotlec]

Why do you like keeping fish in that mud ? Not it looks nice in your room nor it is good for your fish. If I was you , I would change 50% water every other day to keep things acceptable until scrubber starts doing its job. I cant imagine fish being happy swimming in this green stuff. Or this particular fish is very different from all other we use to see in our tanks ?

[Floyd R Turbo]

+1 on that, you are way past the point of danger if you are showing 3-6ppm ammonia and any nitrites. I kept FW for 20 years and the cardinal rule is 0ppm ammonia 0ppm nitrite, both of those are like battery acid to fish's gills in FW (not toxic in SW). If that were my tank I'd do back-to-back 50% PWCs right now and 50% daily until the scrubber can take over. Your bio-load is enormous on that tank, goldies as a rule of thumb need at least 5 gallons per inch of fish (some say 10) and still 50% PWCs 1-2x/wk, and since they have no stomach, they like to eat several times a day, which makes it worse. Putting the screen back in the tank for the pleco to eat is defeating the purpose as you're just putting the harvested algae right back into the system (although he's big enough where he pretty much has stopped eating algae in the tank anyways, and you have to supplement his food near 100%).

Bottom line here is that I don't think your scrubber is strong enough to handle that bio load. You've got 140 sq in of material which equates to a 4-cube/day scrubber, but it's single sided so you can cut that in half or more, so at best IMO 2 cubes a day, but you would need much more than 14W of light to reach that (more like 30-40W IMO) so factor that in and you're way, way, way underpowered. Also I just noticed (maybe you changed this already) that you're using the wrong spectrum of light, 5500K is not right, you need 2700-3000K and that is very important.

Just trying to be honest and constructive, so don't take it the wrong way. If you want the scrubber to succeed, I think you need to eliminate the high initial conditions in the tank so that the scrubber can catch up (multiple PWCs immediately followed by daily 50%), and you need to change the lamp ASAP. You may have to go with a higher output lamp for less hours to keep from cooking the algae because it's so close, start with 23W or 26W before going to a higher wattage and check it toward the end of the light cycle to make sure the algae isn't burning. Hopefully, the scrubber can catch up to the bio-load and you won't have to do PWCs anymore. That's the goal, and it has been done for a heavily stocked FW tank.

[Keithp]

Why do you like keeping fish in that mud ? Not it looks nice in your room nor it is good for your fish. If I was you , I would change 50% water every other day to keep things acceptable until scrubber starts doing its job. I cant imagine fish being happy swimming in this green stuff. Or this particular fish is very different from all other we use to see in our tanks ?

I never said I liked keeping green water. I used to change 35% every day and the water was clearer but the fish actually looked worse than they do now. We probably should have bought a larger tank. I am going to take your advice and do some large water changes.

[Keithp]

Floyd,

I will not be building another scrubber or replacing the tank until I am convinced that this one is inadequate. I definitely want to make modifications to this one to give it the best chance of success so I very much appreciate your comments.

I am also aware that I waited too long to fix the condition of the water. I don't trust the test kits at all. The one I used most recently is API but the Seachem ammonia alert things that you stick to the glass never showed any ammonia which is why it got so bad in the first place. I am not sure if we are just wasting money on all these tests. In the past, I used several other brands and all read different levels. It seems like the best test strip is the fish itself and right now they are much happier so while the water clearly (or not so clear) still needs improvement, I think the imminent danger of death is less so I am inclined to not give up on the current setup. As I noted in the previous reply I will perform additional water changes at least until the water is clear again.

Regarding sizing, I haven't got time right now to fully think it through but here are a few thoughts. I think these screens will have very nearly half the growing power of the 2 sided. Based on what I am seeing, the bottom panel has more flow and very nearly as fast as the sides and it grew at about the same rate as the sides so it probably shouldn't be discounted. This is not like your typical horizontal screen where there is thick and slow flow. That is another 25 sq inches for a total of 165. Since the light is half the distance at the closest point and much closer at the farthest point than on the typical screen design, the light source is probably actually twice as effective per watt based on it's positioning even without a mirror reflecting additional light on each side when compared with a single larger screen. I am hoping to have thick growth like you see at the center of most screens on all of my surfaces. The flow is very even and completely covers every panel. I am going to take your advice and change the bulb today since you think it is worth it. I used the under powered one with less than ideal spectrum because that is what I had lying around. Those house plants are growing rapidly and have grown large root mass so this tank does have some additional nutrient export beyond the typical aquarium filters and the new ATS. Hopefully that will help make up the difference you are commenting on. With so many factors it is a little hard to predict what will really be sufficient.

Maybe I should not have put the bottom panel in the tank but it was the small one and it replaced one of the algae wafers. By the way, That pleco absolutely loves algae and the glass has only needed a cleaning 3 times in 2 years for some dark spots that were hard like coraline algae.

I have been trying to talk my wife into a bigger tank but she doesn't want to see me spend more time on it or have too many in the house and I have other home improvement chores that need attention. She considers these her fish though so two days ago she tentatively agreed that the fish would need a bigger home in a year so I can start planning it.

I would be happy to do water changes every 2 weeks of any size once the ATS is established. I currently clean the filters 2 or more times a week and it would be nice to do it only once. Our small planted tank needs to be topped off about every 2 to 3 weeks anyway. So the goal is healthy water based on that maintenance schedule.

Thanks again for your help.

[SantaMonica]

Ironically, the green water (which is phyto) lives by consuming ammonia.

[Keithp]

Ironically, the green water (which is phyto) lives by consuming ammonia.

That is probably why the fish looked worse after doing enough water changes to clear the water.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I get what you're thinking when you say that you're using the light all around the lamp like that, but another thing you have to consider is that if you had a really good reflector and directed the majority of the light from the sides and back of the lamp around to the front, you would have close to 4x the light on the one side of the lamp. Right now you're basically taking that light and splitting it 4 ways, which means that each panel is only getting 1/4 of the intensity that it normally would compared to a standard scrubber that has the full lamp directed at a single panel.

This is a similar issue to folks in the past that wanted to make a T5HO scrubber with 2 screens and reflected lamps on the outside, and bare lamps or 'split relfectors' on the middle lamps. You can't cut a lamp in half and direct half the light in one direction and half in another without losing the intensity.

So you have to treat each panel in yours as 1/4 of a panel, essentially. Again, not that it won't work, but you just have to have the right perspective when analyzing the power of the scrubber.

Granted that your lamp is close, which means the light it IS getting on all 4 panels is more intense but this might also be your downfall as you may be now limited on how high of a wattage lamp you can even put in there without torching the algae. Though you can correct this to some extent, I believe, but knocking the photoperiod down. The same rules would apply as do for any other scrubber, higher intensity light for a shorter period will push through to stronger green growth in a high nutrient system compared to a longer photoperiod with lower intensity light.

i am very interested to find out how this turns out!

[Keithp]

Scrubber is now upgraded with a 23w 1655 lumen 2700 K bulb. The hardware store was out of some bulbs and I didn't want to pick up one with too big a diameter so I thought this would be the best choice for now. They used to carry elongated screw in bulbs but now those require special plugs with external ballasts. I had to get a spiral bulb.

By the way prices for bulbs at Target are more than double the equivalent at hardware stores.

[kerry]

I have used those type of 23W many times. They work good, let us know how they work.

[Keithp]

I get what you're thinking when you say that you're using the light all around the lamp like that, but another thing you have to consider is that if you had a really good reflector and directed the majority of the light from the sides and back of the lamp around to the front, you would have close to 4x the light on the one side of the lamp. Right now you're basically taking that light and splitting it 4 ways, which means that each panel is only getting 1/4 of the intensity that it normally would compared to a standard scrubber that has the full lamp directed at a single panel.

This is a similar issue to folks in the past that wanted to make a T5HO scrubber with 2 screens and reflected lamps on the outside, and bare lamps or 'split relfectors' on the middle lamps. You can't cut a lamp in half and direct half the light in one direction and half in another without losing the intensity.

So you have to treat each panel in yours as 1/4 of a panel, essentially. Again, not that it won't work, but you just have to have the right perspective when analyzing the power of the scrubber.

Granted that your lamp is close, which means the light it IS getting on all 4 panels is more intense but this might also be your downfall as you may be now limited on how high of a wattage lamp you can even put in there without torching the algae. Though you can correct this to some extent, I believe, but knocking the photoperiod down. The same rules would apply as do for any other scrubber, higher intensity light for a shorter period will push through to stronger green growth in a high nutrient system compared to a longer photoperiod with lower intensity light.

i am very interested to find out how this turns out!

I just don't believe reflectors help as much as you think. I believe you can assume 2x brightness from a really good reflector on flourescents but I doubt very many of the ones you see on DIY scrubbers are any where near that good. Most reflective materials absorb at least 10% and reflect at least 50% back on the bulb where it probably turns into heat or at best looses most of its value passing back through the tube. Shine a flashlight through a T12 and you will see much of the light and all of the intensity is lost. It is a lot easier to make a good reflector for a point source light like MH or LED than flourescent. For MH 3x to 4x might be appropriate. If you drew up a diagram to try and come up with the most effective reflector for a wide tube or coil it needs to be set back from the bulb a fair distance and the curvature is different from what most people are using. Ideal reflectors would also not allow for multiple tubes to be used on a side. None of this is ideal for tank top models where being compact is important. Most reflectors do not enclose the entire area around the screen so claiming 4x is silly. Having said that, I think reflectors are still a good choice when using long tubes and for larger screens. For LED I would probably have used optics with something like Jnad's #4 2 sided screen in a small box. The link is somewhere above in this thread.

I agree with the reduction in overall panel value in the standard calculations because it is 1 sided but the panel I am using was free and the flow of water is half of a 2 sided screen so it affects the calculation but maybe not the efficiency so much. 1 sided panel efficiency is a guess and it is probably less true while growth is thin and more true late in the week. I can't quantify this. What I do know is that with the 14 watt bulb and 10 watt pump, it costs about the same amount to run as the biowheel after factoring in replacement cartridges and light bulbs and I expect a lot more out of the ATS. With the 23 watt bulb, it is not quite as good but still much cheaper than running (2) 23 watt bulbs and a smaller pump at say 7 or 8 watts with reflectors and half screen size.

I did most of my scrubber research several years ago thinking I would build a scrubber for another tank that never happened. From the numbers I ran, It looked like this scrubber would be oversized which I figured was good because of the goldfish and the alternate design. I have not checked against the new guidelines and I should probably do that. Maybe it will tell me I need to limit the food.

It is clear that a lot of thought was put into the sizing guidelines but there are so many factors that they can only be used as a guide, not a guarantee of adequacy or efficiency. For me they gave me enough information to decide that I could build one for myself.

This is an experiment and I will learn from it. I had fun coming up with a design that is different from those that helped inspire me to make one in the first place. I hope what I learn is that it was a good idea.

[kotlec]

I am also interested how all this will turn out.

[kerry]

I am using optics on my 40G scrubber I just converted to LED. I am about 4" away and using 90 degree optics. I have 4 660nm one each side and as a test on side has a blue with out optics.

[Keithp]

I had a big algae bloom in the water about 3 hours after changing the bulb so I know it grows algae. Unfortunately the water turned denser green than in my pictures even though I had changed the water shortly before.

I performed another 50%+ water change this morning and put in a finer particle filter to hopefully remove the remaining green. This filter has to be cleaned once to twice a day so it is a pain in the neck. When I get the phyto population low enough maybe the scrubber will be able to take over. A canister filter for this would be handy.

[Keithp]

This is the third week and second cleaning.

16801681

It grew more algae in 1 week than the previous 2. What you can't see well is that most of the screen is actually covered with a stringy algae. Nearly all of this growth showed up after changing the light. I will definitely be keeping the new light bulb. On the first cleaning, I think I cleaned a little too well so I was just a little gentler this time. The bottom panel was not cleaned as thoroughly and it had much thicker growth.

I did the cleaning with a toothbrush which clogged up instantly on the hairy growth. I need to buy a bigger brush.

I also accidentally set the timer to "manual on" instead of "auto on" for the first 2 days after the previous cleaning. They were lit for 2 days straight. Maybe these panels would have looked better. oops.

In the pictures, you can see that one of the panels has less growth in the center. It could be burned by the light but all side panels are equidistant from the bulb so I am not sure. Maybe it had less water or maybe it is just randomly where the algae got a good start. Unless someone thinks I need to make another change, I will run it for another week as is.

If you remember from previous posts, I replaced the light bulb with a more powerful one mid week and saw the greenwater get very dense. I did 3 water changes this week and the big goldfish was unhappy with the first which was over 50% so all others were 35%. The finer filter is not fine enough or large enough to clean the tank completely but does get gummed up so it is helping some. Even so, The tank is growing the green stuff as fast as I am removing it in buckets and filters.

Before the last water change, the ammonia test strip read 0.5 ppm but I am color blind and anything from 0 to 1 looks nearly the same. The dry test strips look closer to 0.5 than 0 to me. Nitrite reads 0.5 to 1.0 ppm. Nitrate reads 20 to 40 ppm. I tested after the previous water change and the reduction is definitely at least in part due to the scrubber. My scrubber light is growing green water, stringy algae and the house plant so there is a lot of new nitrogen conversion going on right now. By next week my ammonia should be 0. Hurray.

Last week I was disappointed that the water distribution channel moves too slow and collects detritus. This week I was thinking it would be kind of cool to try growing blackworms in there with a little java moss. The worms would probably crawl out into the DT becoming fish food but I love feeding live foods. Apparently black worms are good at eating the planctonic algae and detritus and will keep the moss clean. I added a few loose bits of aquatic plants to see if it is light enough to grow anything. They seem to have grown a little in the last few days. For now I want to see the tank stable with fewer water changes before I try adding significant amounts of live foods again. Maybe in a month. I will use it as an excuse to visit a few more fish stores until I find one with the right worms. :)

[SantaMonica]

Since the growth is all green, you can let it go 14 days for some improved filtering.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Glad to see the growth! Keep the updates coming!

[kotlec]

But why fish is unhappy after wc ? Something else is changing rapidly apart of N and P. Is it temperature or pH or something else. Can you check ?
My FW tank fish are always happy when I do WC. Unless new water is too cold - then some fish look stressed for 2 days . Others seems dont care at all. But I almost dont do wc anymore last year. :D

Imagine you just bought your fish and bring to new tank with clean water. That is like 100% wc.

Stringy green algae is what my fw scrubber started to grow as well, after scrubber has settled.

[Keithp]

I have 2 tanks being changed with the same water that is 10 fish and only one of them ever shows any distress with new water.

There is nothing unusual about the water being changed compared to the tank except for no nitrates.
pH = 6.8
Alk (KH)=80 ppm
Chl=0

The change water temperature is always within a couple of degrees of the tank water and the fish seem to like the fresh water coming in. About 2 hours after a large change, the larger gold fish will get still in a slower moving part of the tank. It tends to stay this way until the next morning. It is unusual to see this fish still even at night unless it has just eaten something large.

I did notice that this fish was showing some of these symptoms about 4 months ago after water changes. I threw out the old water conditioner and bought a new bottle. This did seem to help but not because of a testable problem. The Chlorine test does include chloramine and I don't understand enough about the chemistry to make a guess about what might be going on there.

The fantail goldfish showing distress has a little minor fin erosion and a couple of bumps like half pea sized raised pimples on it's side. They have grown but very slowly. I suspect these may be the real issue. The tank has been medicated with a number of different meds with no improvement. Being color blind I can't describe the color accurately but one has typically been colored like the fish, one is probably red and the other was maybe a little lighter than the fish. I am guessing this is primarily a result of water quality and hope they get better now that it is improved. The fish store guessed it is cancer. I have not found anything in books or disease sites that looks similar but think it might be ulcers or cancer from the written descriptions. A few scales appear to have fallen off at one of the bumps. The fish is not flashing and there is nothing protruding from the bumps. This fish has some of the bumpy skin on it's head like a lion head but only on one side and we believe it mostly grew after we bought her. None of these symptoms spread to the other fish.

Let me know if you have any thoughts. This fish has lot's of character and it would be a real shame to loose her.

[kotlec]

I only keep cyclids and know nothing about gold fish deseases. May be someone else will chime in. But I am sure there must be reason for your fish to be unhappy with fresh water.

[SantaMonica]

I guess this is one reason I'm glad to not do water changes on the 10f fw either... been 2 years now.

[Keithp]

I just looked at the fish again and the redness is gone. It is all gold fish color now. I believe at least one of the bumps is smaller too.

[Keithp]

I have around 200 gph but should have 350 gph on the 20" width. My original design with the nut jar was smaller and I didn't upgrade the pump. I have not measured the actual flow. I read through the sizing criteria and found that I am under the standard flow rate by more than I thought. It is probably less important with this design because the weir is able to distribute almost any flow evenly. I am curious how much this is affecting growth.

[SantaMonica]

I can affect it a lot. Lack of nutrient, and lack of turbulence.

[Keithp]

Now at 3.5 weeks:
Ammonia NH3 = 0 ppm
Nitrite NO2 = .5 ppm
Nitrate NO3 = 20 ppm

Showing continued improvement in everything except the green water is still dense.

[kerry]

I think you need like a 75% water change!! Then at least 30-50% every day or other until its clear.

[SantaMonica]

Cutting 2 hours on the display light will help too.

[Keithp]

1725

I decided to turn out the lights except when feeding. After 3 days the water is almost clear and the scrubber grew much faster. No water changes needed. Thanks for the advice Santa Monica. I kept an eye on the nitrates over the last 3 days and saw no change even with the green water dieing off. Now that I don't have to worry about the fish swimming into things, I can put a few decorations back in the tank.

1726

Growth is very even on the panels except in one place. It is hard to see but there is about 1/4 inch wide strip on the right side of this panel that appears a little dryer than the rest. It has some air bubbles stuck in the algae that are difficult to see in the photo. I assume the dry spot is due to the undersized pump. Clearly that portion is not going to be as effective as the rest. I may be able to improve flow just a little more by creating a lip with some thin plastic to make sure all of the water goes down the face of the panels but I don't think it will make much difference. Tighter fitting panels would help a little too but not enough to make me cut new panels right now.

I did not scrape off algae this week. I hope to see if the Nitrite and Nitrate will come down a little more with an extra week of growth.

There are some visible bubbles at the bottom but they seem to be trapped in the hair algae and don't pop. They are not from any noticeable splashing.

The bottom panel still seems to be growing approximately as well as the sides.

Ammonia NH3 = 0 ppm
Nitrite NO2 = .5 ppm
Nitrate NO3 = 20 ppm

These numbers are down from the previous week but the same as 3 days ago when I turned out the lights. Should I expect Nitrite and Nitrate to drop to 0 eventually?

I noticed that the water level seems to have risen slightly in the scrubber. It is normally about 1/4 inch deep on the bottom panel and it is a little more than that now. This concerns me because it indicates that the release path may be blocked with algae. In the following picture, you can see the stringy algae is definitely in the notch.

1727

When I made this scrubber, I was expecting the boards to be slanted slightly to avoid splashing. Splashing has turned out not to be a problem with vertical panels but the notches at the bottom are not ideally placed and one panel was not notched at all. I plan to modify some of the notches. At the very least, I will cut the one remaining notchless panel. I did not clean the screens this week but I think I will have to clean at least 1 or two panels to make sure I don't end up with a wet light. I may also try raising the bottom panel a little higher off the acrylic to see if that helps. The individual algae strands are around 3 inches long so by next week most of them will extend through the notches.

I have noticed that there is more condensation with the higher power light but because I have a lid, there is still no increase in water loss from evaporation. Enough water condenses on the lid now that it drips off when I open it. This does make me a little concerned about moisture on electrical parts even after silicone.

[SantaMonica]

Good results. Yes the nitrate should come down more.

[Keithp]

Well, I looked in the scrubber this morning and the algae blocked the holes enough to build up an inch of head in the box. The algae strands are 3-4 inches long and some wrap around the notches and down the drain into the tank. I decided I couldn't wait any longer and cut the notch in the last uncut panel. It immediately went down to 1/4 inch on the bottom, essentially no head.

I think this scrubber is going to be sufficient for this tank but It may not be a long term solution if I can't run it for more than a week without cleaning. An acceptable design can't cause a flood if I accidentally miss a week on the cleaning schedule. I will take another look at things during cleaning this coming weekend. I am considering:
1) raising the bottom panel 1/8 -1/4 inch to reduce friction. The problem with this is if it is high enough to let air in, it will probably be noisier.
2) cutting a 3/4" hole in the center of the bottom panel. The problem with this is that algae will grow on the acrylic instead of on the removable panel where I want it. I have a set of cheap spade bits that would work and they need sharpening anyway. This still may not be enough
3) building another version of the scrubber where the trough panels extend all the way down to the bottom which would lessen the restriction some more. This may be noisier but I am not sure. It is certainly more work than any of my other options. On the other hand, I could build it all out of black acrylic. For testing, it has been very nice to have clear so I can see what is happening.
4) enclose the light in acrylic and add an overflow stand pipe next to the pump connection where it won't grow algae close enough to affect it. This is probably safe but not my favorite solution.
5) Remove and don't use the bottom panel. This would still have growth on the acrylic which would be harder to remove from the tank even though it could easily be wiped off with a finger.
6) Cut a 2"x1" hole out of the bottom panel at the opening to the tank. If I do this, the bottom panel could be lowered to sit on the acrylic. The entire box would probably be more reliably quiet. It is hard to imagine the algae blocking the large release hole but I could build a black acrylic umbrella to prevent growth in the drain to make it even less likely. I think this is the best choice but I am feeling lazy right now so I am going to wait for a while and see if any of you have another idea.

[Keithp]

The screens look pretty good to me. This is 2 weeks growth. The panels grew fast for a couple of days when I turned out the tank lights but have not noticeably grown since then. Algae is not super thick but the side panels are completely covered. The weight was just under 3 oz.

1747 1748

The algae was difficult to scrape off with fingernails so I used a credit card. This scrubber is EASY to clean. It will only take about 30 seconds to turn off the light and remove the panels. About another 30 to walk to the kitchen and scrape the algae into the compost bowl. Then another 30 seconds to reinstall the panels and turn the light on.

Does anyone know whether the freshwater algae has a different consistency than salt water? My algae is made up of extremely fine threads like silk and it is hard to imagine them getting an inch thick.

The bottom panel grew at the same rate or faster than the sides for the first 3 days but it did not grow any during the second week when the water backed up in the box. It may have even let some strands go. The side panels appear to have continued growing and show no signs of shedding algae. The thinner spots in the picture are finger prints from removing the panels.

Ammonia NH3 = 0 ppm
Nitrite NO2 = .5 ppm
Nitrate NO3 = 20 ppm
There was no change over the last week.

1742

I have decided to let it grow over the next 2 weeks without the bottom panel as pictured above. This will help me determine how to avoid having it back up when algae gets too thick. If it works, I will cut a replacement panel for the bottom that has a hole at the drain and add a black acrylic shade so algae doesn't grow in the acrylic drain and so the tank is not lit by the scrubber.

I have more news about the fish. I believe the larger fish is carrying some sort of worm parasite. These were not visible while the water had high levels of ammonia but showed themselves when the levels came down. About 4 days ago, I took out the carbon filter cartridges and dosed Coppersafe and an antifungal drug for secondary infections. It appears to be working. The cartridge removal would have reduced the filter bacteria significantly and may have played a part in the stagnant test numbers.

[SantaMonica]

Yes FW grows very thin and long strands, and does not get 3D unless backed-up at the bottom.

Your color looks darker, which could probably use stronger light if you want to try it.

[kerry]

My fresh water grows WAY faster then my SW does to. I clean my FW every 4-7 days.

[Misa Tumbas]

Keithp, buy UV-C filter for that green water, it will help with other things also..Photoperiod should not exceed 10 hours...Total blackout will help, but somehow I think that you will have problem with that water again, after blackuot, water must be crystal clear, yours was not, so...Scrubber will eventualy help, when drains out all nutrients, but you must take care of intensity and duration of your lights. Direct sunlight or window nearby?

[Keithp]

Santa, I went to Lowes yesterday (Thursday) and found that they didn't have standard 30/32 watt bulbs either. I got a Sylvania 2700k 40 watt curly cfl. I set it to run from 10 am to 9pm. It started out pulling 39 watts but dropped closer to 37 after an hour. I have it mounted upside down but the instruction said not to. I hope it will be ok. It actually seems cooler than the previous bulb and no sign of burn. After 1 day, I noticed more tiny bubbles in the algae at the bottom.

Kerry, I see no reason to clean earlier than 7 days with mine. At 3 days everything is completely covered but why not let it go longer? Once it is tuned, I want to let it go for a long test of more than 2 weeks to make sure I am not in trouble if I get lazy, busy or forget to clean.

Misa Tumbas, I am sure the uv would help but if we upgrade anything it will probably be the tank size first. It has no direct light. The tank is very clear right now after reducing tank lighting if it goes green again, I may consider the uv.

Now that the water is clear, I hate looking at all the poo so if you have a suggestion for that, I'm interested. Detritovores are probably not safe with this fish.

If I create a box around the light to get 3D growth, I think it would have to be 1/4" to 3/8" from the bottom and side panels. It would need to run 2 weeks between cleaning. I would need an upper overflow. I would have to vent heat from the light. I might need to attach the lid or weight it down. Does this sound correct? I am afraid I might also need a bigger pump to make it worth doing.

[RkyRickstr]

Awsome, love how no light is wasted.

[Keithp]

On Sunday I found out the 40 watt bulb is too much. It is clearly burning. I switched out the bulb for the old one. These bulbs are not just brighter but larger diameter. This picture is 1 week since cleaning but ran the larger bulb for only the last 3 days. Algae is growing well only at the top edge and in the corners.

1775

I found it very strange that it was up to 39.3 watts on Sunday. I wonder if it is the bulb or maybe our local power company having voltage problems again.

The Nitrate and Nitrite are both unchanged.

I am going to try an independent or small chain hardware store for a 30-32 watt bulb or maybe Amazon. I will also try to find time to build a lamp enclosure but realistically, it will probably not happen for at least a week. That is ok since I haven't figured out what I will do to hold the panels in place since the lamp enclosure would be in the way of the acrylic springs.

[kerry]

My FW scrubber produces HUGE amounts of algae!! If I let it go longer then a few days its falling off severely. I even added a second screen but to no avail, it still produces just as fast and I only feed about 4-6 cubes per day. I have two screens cut to about 75% the original size. I do not know why I have SO much growth, normally people cant get it to grow LOL.

[Keithp]

I suspect mine starts letting go at about 11 days with the 23 watt bulb but it is hard to tell for sure. It clearly thickened until day 10. Ultimately I expect to clean weekly unless my attempts at redesigning for 3d growth require more time.

I had hair algae introduced as a hitchhiker on a plant around 1983 and have to keep a lot of plants or a pleco in my tanks now or it takes over the whole tank in 2 weeks. This algae grows pretty well with less light than most plants require. I lost all my tanks in an earthquake in 1989 and the algae came back after a couple of years of being dry on gravel, boxed, and cooked in the attic. I am glad I can make use of it now.

I had another thought about applying this scrubber concept with a box around the light on a larger tank. It should be possible to run 2 of these connected together without upsizing the pump if an electronic valve was on each exit. The valves would keep the algae submerged when not lit and the water would flow down the other scrubber. Each scrubber can only run for 12 hours though. It seems like this idea could also be applied to the SM100 but that would be a very big tank and most big tanks have dumps. On a system with a sump, you need the pump size anyway so it probably isn't worth paying for the valves.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I always wondered exactly how difficult it was to keep a tank in an earthquake zone. Not to go OT but I would think that would wreak havoc on tank joints/seams.

[Keithp]

I always wondered exactly how difficult it was to keep a tank in an earthquake zone. Not to go OT but I would think that would wreak havoc on tank joints/seams.

One of these days I will start a thread on the subject on RC. I have started writing a post twice now but never felt I had it right. For now I will tell you don't worry about the seams. My tanks were all impact losses. The 55 rolled off the unbraced metal stand breaking on the floor and it's pump shattered my 25 and 20 that were on the shelf below. A good braced stand with wide, heavy base will probably save most tanks. The safer tanks are also shorter than their width. There isn't much you can do to stop some water from sloshing out because you wouldn't be able to maintain a tank with sides much over 30" and the taller it is, the more likely it is to roll. Better to let some water out than to loose it all.

[Keithp]

This time it shows less growth because I burned it half way through with a 40 watt bulb and then forgot to increase the timer settings. The water is mostly clear still.

18171816

Ammonia = 0 = same
Nitrate = 40 = higher
Nitrite = 0.5 = same
I suspect this indicates a mini cycle in the tank from burning algae. I have continued to change 35% of the water every 2 weeks after taking the readings.

I ran the scrubber the past 2 weeks without the bottom panel to see if algae would affect the outlet. It did not so I think a slightly different configuration of the panels would be helpful. I am going to make some alterations to the panels and/or a light enclosure this week if I have time. I have a couple of experiments I want to try.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Tank looks MUCH better!!!

[kerry]

Even in my FW I have to change water but, a lot less. Once a month instead of about twice a week. Mine has two 9x7 screens and these need cleaning every 4 days. That is enough for 10.5 cubes but I hardly feed 6!!!

[SantaMonica]

I like the blue setting.

[kerry]

I like the blue setting.
Blue??? What am I missing?? OH, the background of the tank!!!! Yes its better then the old green. LOL I had to look at the pic again.

[Keithp]

I like the blue setting.

Thanks,

I like blue too but it is too sterile without lots of other decorations. The blue rock highlights fish poo. My wife chose it so I won't be changing. I wish I could grow some plants in there but the fish eat them too quick or pull them out of the gravel. Our small planted tank has a mix of black and blue gravel which I think looks better.

[Ace25]

I always wondered exactly how difficult it was to keep a tank in an earthquake zone. Not to go OT but I would think that would wreak havoc on tank joints/seams.
Here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HWhI6QaJq2Y#!

[kerry]

Ouch!!!!

[Keithp]

Here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HWhI6QaJq2Y#!

That second quake was probably pretty close to the quake that destroyed my tanks but maybe a little shorter duration. It was a 7 magnitude which is about what Southern California is projected to have. In Northern California, we expect as much as a magnitude 8 some time in our lives. The scale is logarithmic so it would be a lot worse. Neither tank in the video broke at the seams before falling so the stand and/or strapping is critical. I suspect a solid stand with a sump or other low weight might have survived the quake in that video. I'm glad my tank didn't land on me.

Thanks for the video. Now I can relive my nightmares.

[kerry]

Most people do not realize that for every one number up on the scale its 10 TIMES AS POWERFUL! Its just the same a pH in a tank, each number up/down in that is 10 time the change to.