Help with design

[wildman]

1625

I am in the design phase of my new build and would like to include an ATS. The system will be a 75gal display and 40gal sump with display in center for frags. The water will drain from the display into a small sump used for a backup skimmer (used only periodically in addition to ATS). The water will then flow into the ATS. Here I am considering two options. The first is the consensus preferred method using a hanging screen. Here I would have to use a large diameter pipe to accommodate flow since it will not be dropping from any height and I am worried about noise. The second would use a slanted screen. Here it would just be a wide even weir. Both would be encased in acrylic. Both would only be lit from one side using an eshines LED fixture. The catch is I want to make the ATS double as a bong cooler. So, the slanted option is my easiest option. I will have between 900-1000GPH flow and can direct 100% of flow across screen or split it. It will be moderately feed between 2-3 cubes per day and heavy bioload. Please give me your thoughts.

Thanks,
Travis

[wildman]

No one has any opinions? Did I leave out any important info that would help with feedback?

[Ace25]

It's a tough call, that's for sure.

With the information you provided, I personally like the sound of option B even if it isn't the most preferred option. I think it will handle all your needs and concerns.

[Floyd R Turbo]

The catch is I want to make the ATS double as a bong cooler.

Is this a typo or are you serious?

[Ace25]

LOL, it isn't what your thinking Floyd. It just looks like what your thinking... but it is just a way to build a cheap chiller, kind of like what I did when putting a big fan over my screen. They are mostly used for DIY modding of computers when making them watercooled. I did that myself about 10 years ago on one of my computers. More of an expensive gimmick than anything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bongcooler.png

[Floyd R Turbo]

I guess I need to clean up my thinking!

[wildman]

I can see how that was holding up the conversation. Lets say I move in the direction of option B. My next question would be, any ideas on how to build the overflow from the small sump? I am thinking it needs to be detachable for cleaning, but still water tight so it doesn't leak. Or can I just make a top for it that is removable with the screen and just need to wipe out the overflow?

[SantaMonica]

A 2-sided waterfall is going to outperform the horizontal in every way, including smaller space. It's just a little harder to build.

[wildman]

I have read lots and lots of your posts and understand I am handicapping myself to some extent. I think with the size lighting fixture I have it should compensate some for only being one sided. What are your thoughts on it being slanted. It should perform better than a horizontal because the water depth will be maybe 1" and have lots of flow. Am I wrong in thinking as the algae grows it will break the water surface and give me the desired air water mix?

[kerry]

I have had both the Horizontal and the Vertical and there is NO comparison.

[Ace25]

Just brainstorming.. if you can make a tray from one tank to the other out of acrylic, couldn't you use some acrylic strips on the bottom of the tray to raise the screen slightly, then the water would have to bounce over the strips and would provide good water coverage. At the bottom of the tray you could put a bigger piece of acrylic and drill holes in it for the drains and it would hold the screen in place. You can then place a few LEDs on the bottom side of the tray and make a horizontal scrubber double sided to some degree.

[SantaMonica]

The thinking is not correct. Anything not vertical, is horizontal. Any algae growth will cause the flow to route around it from that point to the bottom of the screen, thus stopping filtering.

1" deep would not work at all.

[wildman]

Now we are getting some where. What if I made a long weir from the small sump over to the larger and then dropped straight down into the larger sump with a waterfall? That way I would not have to worry about the pipe size and creating a siphon.

[kerry]

I had a horizontal screen (this is my 10G) and was feeding one cube to a 2.75"x6.75" lit with 4 660nm LED's and would have my nitrates creep up to 30PPM and I would need to cut back on the food for a couple/three weeks to get it to under 10PPM. Just a about 2 week ago I made it vertical and cut it down to 2.75"x4.5" lit 2 660 per side and am able to feed a cube and sometimes a bit more and cant get the nitrates to get above ZERO! Vert is the way to if you can.

[wildman]

That's what I was trying to get at. I am now thinking about option A, but with a weir in place of drain pipe from one sump to the other.

[wildman]

1668

So I am leaning in this direction. Does anyone have any good ideas on how to attach the scrubber for good working order and easy removal for cleaning? The end view is what the end view of the weir will look like. It will probably be a solid back panel to the water line below.

[SantaMonica]

Use a ledge, and have the screen pinned up under the ledge, so that the flow does not push the screen out.

[wildman]

That makes scene. I was worried if I just hung the screen the water would cause it to sway and constantly change the flow from the front of the screen to the back of the screen randomly. Do you think the weight of the screen covered with algae will cause the screen to fold up if I only used guides on the sides of the screen to hold it up? Say the screen slides into two groves the same as the glass shield on your lighting fixture?

[SantaMonica]

No guides needed. Plastic canvas stays straight, especially the harder material. You just want some kind of ledge like a roof coming out over a wall of a house.

[wildman]

I'm with you on the ledge. Wondering about holding the screen in place if I don't use guides. Using your roof example I would not have a foundation to set the screen on and I'm not sure how to attach to the roof for it to hang. I was thinking about side supports instead. Or if you think the material is strong enough I could build a foundation. I could use a guide for the roof overhang to wedge it under and another for the foundation at the bottom. I'm just not seeing how I could hang the screen like everyone does in the typical design. Thanks for your help and patience.

[MorganAtlanta]

There's a thread with something like this on the forum. They used a spine piece from a binder that is designed to hold papers together to hold the screen to the glass wall. The water flowed over the spine piece and down the screen.

[Floyd R Turbo]

This

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1387-Surface-adhesion-distribution-version&highlight=adhesion

[SantaMonica]

Use pins.

[wildman]

That should be easy enough to use as a wedge.

Are you talking about welding on some kind of acrylic pin to hold the screen? Where might I find these?

[SantaMonica]

Just glue a plastic stick. Even suction cups.

[wildman]

Excellent.

Thanks Guys

[MorganAtlanta]

Not that one. Same material used to clip the screen, but this was on a single sided waterfall style one in a glass sump.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Oh, I know, you're thinking of the one where the screen is next to a baffle so the water is rolling over the edge and down it? Let me see if I can find that one...