Some questions of a new guy

[alargoen]

Thanks for your quick reply for my questions. Now i decided to DIY a ATS for my new tank(60L60W55H) and alive stones(活石). My scrubbers are two pieces（30cm*15cm） with lights both sides.
Here are my questions:1. I've read that 'experience shows that at least 23W fluorescent lamp,the color temperature 2700 K-3000 K "warm" or "soft" color that makes the best effect'. Here at least 23W FL means 23W every lamp or all lamps sum total？
2.When I start the system，how should I control the lights above the tank？

Thank you for your professional guidance，I need more details please~

[SantaMonica]

It means 23 watts for each bulb. But a 30cm X 15cm screen = 450 square cm = 72 square inches, so you should have at least 72 total watts = 36 on each side. Twice that would be even better: 72 watts each side = 144 watts total.

72 total watts will handle up to 6 cubes of food per day once it is growing.
144 total watts will handle up to 12 cubes of food per day once it is growing.

[alargoen]

In fact, I desighed 2 screens, each is 30cm X 15cm screen. So I should have at least 144 total watts, right?

As my poor English, how much is "6 cubes of food"?

[kotlec]

1 cube is 1cm x 1cm x 1cm frozen food. That is aproximattely 10grams i think.

[alargoen]

Thank you for your explain,kotlec!

[kotlec]

Welcome !

[SantaMonica]

I cube is about 3 grams.

[alargoen]

It means 23 watts for each bulb. But a 30cm X 15cm screen = 450 square cm = 72 square inches, so you should have at least 72 total watts = 36 on each side. Twice that would be even better: 72 watts each side = 144 watts total.

72 total watts will handle up to 6 cubes of food per day once it is growing.
144 total watts will handle up to 12 cubes of food per day once it is growing.

what kind of bulb do you mean by 23 watts for each?Fluorescent lamp? I think it's hard to find such kind of lamps in 60cm.
Most lamps about 60cm is 14 watts~~~:confused:

[SantaMonica]

A CFL spotlight.

[alargoen]

A CFL spotlight.

Is spotlight the same as fluorescent cubes?
1640
Will this works?
Odyssea T5HO 60cm
with two T5HO-24w 6500K Fluorescent cubes

[SantaMonica]

Reflectors are best for large screen, but small ones will need spotlights:


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[alargoen]

So will this item1646
Odyssea T5HO 60cm
with two T5HO-24w 6500K Fluorescent cubes
work on ATS?

If not, what's the problem? Thanks!

[SantaMonica]

Those are too long. The screen is only 15 cm wide. Use 2 CFL spotlights on each side.

[alargoen]

No， I have TWO 30*15 screens， together it should be 60*15，so length is OK. I plan to use two on both sides.

two T5HO-24w 6500K Fluorescent cubes
light OK for ATS?

[kerry]

Have your read the new info here for screen size for food used in the tank: http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1419-New-sizing-guidelines . Basically you have a 22"x6" screen. This is good for about 11 cubes of food. A bigger screen is not more powerful. You should build the screen to fit your feeding schedule so it will be well grown and have thick growth.

[SantaMonica]

Still, the screen is only 15cm wide. That is too narrow for a reflector. Spotlights work best on small screens.

[alargoen]

The reflector of the lights is about 14cm, still not enough?
Because I read some articles about ATS, it is said that the best light is 2700K-3000K, over 4500K will be useless.

[alargoen]

Thanks for your information!

[SantaMonica]

Needs pics of the screen.

[alargoen]

I just planed in my mind. If the light of 6500K is OK, I will make it and post here.

[alargoen]

16591660
Still, the screen is only 15cm wide. That is too narrow for a reflector. Spotlights work best on small screens.

Here is my sketch，I think it's something like SM100.
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here is the lights i choose.
Sorry for my poor English
Thanks for more advise！

[SantaMonica]

Yes it is basically a SM100, but you will need more light than 24 watts on each side. Use 48 or 72 watts on each side.

But, how much are you feeding?

[alargoen]

Yes it is basically a SM100, but you will need more light than 24 watts on each side. Use 48 or 72 watts on each side.

But, how much are you feeding?

It's two tubes of 24 watts on each side, total 48 watts on each side. Do you mean each tube should be 48 or 72 watts? Since my tank has not been set up yet, I think i would keep very few fish at first, then depending on the quality of water, I will increase more alives and feeding.
BTW, my tank is 60cm*60cm*55cm.
I read ”Goondoo's "Santa Monica 100 Acrylic Scrubber" Customized” on this forum, It's quite similar size and lighting.
http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?495-Goondoo-s-quot-Santa-Monica-100-Acrylic-Scrubber-quot-Customized&highlight=Goondoo


Thank you again for your quick reply and taking your time to answering my questions！

[SantaMonica]

Ok so it is about 100 total watts, which can handle up to 10 cubes once it's growing in 3d.

What's the most cubes you would feed?

[alargoen]

Ok so it is about 100 total watts, which can handle up to 10 cubes once it's growing in 3d.

What's the most cubes you would feed?

I have no idea about how much to feed yet, as I mentioned I would try from less to more, meanwhile pay attention to water quality. Is that Ok?
And I plan to start with about 25 kilograms live stones. How much time should I run the system before the water become balanced?
Should I put fish in at first or after the water getting balanced?
Thanks a lot, SM.

[SantaMonica]

You want to start with how much you will be feeding, and build it to fit that. Figure out how many, and what type of fish you will have, and figure out how much they eat.

And instead of water quality, you can just look at the scrubber growth: It it's growing green, water quality is good.

For a new tank, it is not "balanced" that you want. It is low ammonia that you want. So test the water for ammonia when it is new. After the ammonia reads zero, put one fish in.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Hey alargoen, why don't you just get 2 of the e-Shine fixtures? They're made in China so I would think you would not have a problem finding them. T5HO is a waste of money anymore, in my opinion. Also you could DIY LED if you have the skill. Just thought I'd throw that out there!

[alargoen]

Hey alargoen, why don't you just get 2 of the e-Shine fixtures? They're made in China so I would think you would not have a problem finding them. T5HO is a waste of money anymore, in my opinion. Also you could DIY LED if you have the skill. Just thought I'd throw that out there!

hi Floyd, thanks for your suggestion. Because I am a layman of lights and my English is also poor, I don't very understand what kind of lights the e-Shine fixtures is. I also considered LED, but I don't know how to DIY and the products are very expesive. I choose the t5 products because they are very thin and looks not too bad;)

[kotlec]

www.eshinesystems.com

[Floyd R Turbo]

Compare the cost of a T5HO fixture and the cost of lamp replacement for a year to the cost of an e-shine fixture. they are close

[alargoen]

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I don't know how to make the slot of the pipe smooth.

[kerry]

I have seen worse!! Give it a try. If it needs to be better try and put a straight line with a Sharpe marker on it to help guide your cutting tool.

[Floyd R Turbo]

What tools do you have available? Dremel? Oscillating tool?

[alargoen]

1756


I used a big cutting machine in a windows' factory, maybe I need this kind of tool to burnish, right?
Thanks for your encourages, Kerry, I will try it when my tank arrives this weekend.
It looks easy but quite difficult for me to accomplish:mad:

[alargoen]

The pipe is 60cm lenth, the flow is about 4000L/H.
So how wide should the slot be?

[kerry]

Mine are all about 1/8" to 3/16".

[alargoen]

Thanks again Kerry, you guys are always so nice and helped me a lot!

[kerry]

You are very welcome. Thank you.

[alargoen]

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much better now!

[kerry]

That should work fine.

[alargoen]

Finally, the tank arrived:o

1829
My ATS on the tank.
24W 4000K lighting.
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another side.

[SantaMonica]

Will be a happy tank :)

[alargoen]

day 31895
day 51896
on the live rocks1897

I think the pump is not strong enough, so the water cannot cover the scrubbers fully.
I have ordered another same pump, it will give water on the other side of the pipe

[SantaMonica]

Try removing half the screen, and taping up the slot.

[alargoen]

You mean wash half the screen?

[kotlec]

It means delete half screen - make it 1/2 size.

[alargoen]

It means delete half screen - make it 1/2 size.

I've bought one more pump, increase water flow.
Will it be okey?

[SantaMonica]

If the screen is full, yes.

But it is more easy to remove half the screen.

[alargoen]

The screen is full now.
If i remove half of the screen, lighting would be wasted.

[gmoney243]

dang whats that thing rated for 20 cubes/day haha

[alargoen]

But my tank is 60cm*60cm*55cm, it cannot keep so many fish=.=

[Floyd R Turbo]

I was using the 24" T5HOs on my build, and a screen that was 20" wide. I cut it down to 14" wide and it does better. The thing about the ends of the lamps is that the light output at the screen drops significantly for the last 1-1/5" of illuminate lamp section, so you can cut the screen down to 1" short of the actual glass part of the lamp on either side. That last inch gives you no decent growth so you don't lose anything IMO. I think the lamp is actually 21.5" with the metal ends, so take off 1 inch for both of those, then the last inch of lamp is useless so take off 2 inches, so really your 'decent light' screen area is more like 18" wide.

[alargoen]

It‘s very kind of you for giving me so many advise, thank you very much.

I did some improvement yesterday.
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The slot and holes looks better.
1996
Make it giving water both sides.
1997
Rebuild the pipes.
Now the flow on the scrubbers is quite steady.

[alargoen]

but there are still some problems to solve.
First of all, the bubbles.
1998
I don't know if increasing the lenth of pipe will be useful of not.

and the 5mm acrylic begin to swell because of the heat of light.

[SantaMonica]

For the bubbles, just extend the tube farther down.

The drilled-holes are probably going to clog up; a slot is best.

You might want to wait 3 weeks for the new design to be posted. It will solves these problems.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Where are the holes?

[alargoen]

little holes on the slot.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'm confused, did you drill the holes, then cut a slot over the holes? That is a no-no, it's called "cross cuts" and what will happen is that they will allow the algae to grow into the slot and block the areas that do not have the cross cuts/holes, and the water will then only flow through the holes creating streaky growth. you want a straight cut slot and nothing else, and the water pressure will prevent the algae from growing into the slot.

At this point though, what's done is done, I would just leave it as is. Get this one going strong, then wait until the beginning of May when SM reveals the new idea before investing any more time/effort.

[alargoen]

I extend the tube down to the bottom of the tank, but bubbles are still there.
I just cannot make the flow steady through a slot, so I have to drill holes on a very narrow slot.(the slot is just keeps the scrubbers in the middle of the holes)
As you said that the holes may get cloged up, I should check the flow frequently.
Thanks for your reminding!!

I am expecting your new desigh~~:rolleyes:

[Floyd R Turbo]

If you can't get steady even flow, then the slot is likely not wide enough. The blade you show in the one picture is probably pretty thin, like 1/16". So if the space between the holes is pinching the screen, you're not going to get any flow in those areas, only where the holes are.

Regarding the bubbles in the tank, the solution is not to extend the pipe downward as this will only push the bubbles further down. The solution is to have the pipe terminate just below the surface of the water into a larger diameter pipe that starts above the water, and terminates deep in the tank with a "T". So if you have a 1" pipe outlet into the tank, buy some 2" (or larger) PVC and a T, and put the T with the side outlet facing up into the 2" pipe and set that on the bottom of the tank, or somehow suspend it at the desired depth. This way the bubbles can travel up and pop at the surface, and the clear water will exit the pipe at the bottom. This of course presents the issue of the bubbles popping at the surface and salt creep, but you already have this problem. The solution there is to get an end cap for the 2" pipe and cut a hole in it and slide it over the 1" outlet pipe.

You must terminate the 1" pipe below the water surface though, it you don't, the box won't drain easily and it will fill up with water.

[alargoen]

You give me a lot of information and knowledge.
I think I know how to solve the bubbles problem now.
1999

[Floyd R Turbo]

give it a shot

[alargoen]

I tested the water yesterday and fist fish come in!
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I washed the scrubbers this morning for the second time.
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At the bottom of the ats, also many algae lives.
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[SantaMonica]

If you clean the bottom too, you will get better filtering.

Also, are you cleaning the slot? It looks like the flow is cut off.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Remember he drilled holes then cut the slot. This is from the holes i.e. crosscuts. That's why you shouldn't do them.

[kerry]

I have switch all mine back to the slot only but I feel the slots were OK to. I had light guards over them and it was great. Now with the slot only and light guards I get impeded flow when the algae fills in. Its better on my small screen with the slot only but I dont care for it as much on my longer screen.

[alargoen]

Scrubber is ok now, and the green algae grows very fast.
But sadly
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po4 no3 no2 were tested OK.
I don't know why:(

KH is >=8

[SantaMonica]

Tests were good or bad?

[alargoen]

tests were good.
PH=8.3, KH=8, NO2,NO3,PO4 close to 0.
the only one fish is OK now.
I cleaned half of the scrubber yesterday.
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After cleaning
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[alargoen]

2112

[SantaMonica]

Phosphate is coming out of the rocks. Will take a few more weeks.

[alargoen]

OH no, I add 2 fish and 2 LPS today.
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Hope that they will survive.

[SantaMonica]

You are going to need to feed flower pot by hand each day.

[Ace25]

Going off your first post listing your tank dimensions, I am assuming the 60L60W55H is in cm and not inches? If so, that is about 1/3 the size tank needed for a Blue tang. They are ich magnets to begin with, put them in a tank 1/3 the proper size for them, your just asking for problems that will probably lead to a massive ich outbreak and wipe out all your fish. To top it off, you also have a Yellow tang in there. The Blue tang needs at least 180G tank (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+43+330&pcatid=330), and the Yellow tang needs at least 100G tank (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+43+392&pcatid=392). Just my opinion.

And Santa Monica is right, you have to hand feed flowpot corals at least once a day, preferably 2-3x a day. Not an easy coral at all, actually one of the hardest corals to care for.

[SantaMonica]

By the way, I've found that Goniopora (he has an Alveopora) can be kept and grown in a scrubber only tank without target feeding, if enough particle food is added continuously. At least my copper-pink colored one could. I think it's because Goniopora has more smaller tentacles, so it can eat the smaller particles in the water. But Alveopora have fewer, bigger tentacles, and probably need bigger pieces of food that you can't easily automatically feed; thus it must be hand fed.

[SantaMonica]

The zoo's should do fine.

[kerry]

I have a Goniopora in my 40G and have never hand fed it. Its not extended in this photo but it gets HUGE.

[Garf]

Alargoen - The regal tangs do get very big. But if your anything like me, you'll want a bigger tank before long anyway. Keep your eye on both tangs for white spots, black spots, or persistent dusting on the scales. If you see this, you must take action. You must feed enough nori/algae to keep them happy and healthy.

[alargoen]

Yes, it should be cm. My mistake to have bought flowpot corals, now I must try.
Would you like to tell me how and what to feed the flowpot coral?

[Ace25]

First, you need to find the correct size food it will eat. Particle size is very important, to big or small and it won't eat. Not sure what you have available over there, over here we have "Reef Chili" which is one of the best dry foods for corals. Once you find a suitable food, what I recommend is finding a plastic bowl that will fit over the top of the coral, put the bowl upside down just above the coral and spray the coral food into the bowl and then set it over the coral for 10-15 minutes at least once a day, 2-3 times a day if you can manage it.

[alargoen]

Thanks for your warning. Two tangs do not eat particle food now, but they always eat the algae on the tank and rocks.

Now I see that fishes and carols are much more complex and difficult than ATS. I've spent so much time on studying ATS, now much more to learn.
And thank you everyone for your attention on my tank.

[Ace25]

I was talking about your flowerpot coral, not your tangs when I spoke about food particles. :)

As Garf said, feed your tangs LOTS of nori (seaweed). It is their staple food. The more they eat the happier and healthier they will be, and with tangs, you want them to be healthy. I would even recommend soaking the seaweed in some type of Garlic (I use a product called Garlic Guard). There is a lot of debate on the effectiveness, but I strongly believe if used moderately it is very helpful at keeping parasites away.

Feel free to ask any questions, some of us on here really love to help others as much as we can. One thing to remember, everyone has an opinion, so read what everyone has to say and follow the path you feel is best for you. My advice isn't always going to be the best advice for every situation and if people don't follow my advice it doesn't bother me. I know there are 1000 different ways to accomplish the same goal.

[kerry]

Knowledge is always power!!! Even if I don't use it I want to know about. I am the guy that needs to know why something ticks.

[Ace25]

Funny, I mention the bowl method for feeding flowerpots yesterday and today there is a video showing it on Reefbuilders, although a bit more complicated than what I mentioned.

http://reefbuilders.com/2012/04/23/coral-bowl-dorkfish-aquatics/

[alargoen]

Ace25, sorry I cannot open the video. I am thinking of combining part of a big plastic bottle and a pipe to make a bowl that you mentioned yesterday, with what I can add food through the pipe.
As what I have, I take some pictures here.
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[alargoen]

And I washed other half of the scrubber last night.
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after washing
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I think the algae is turning white. It looks not so green as last cleaning, and it was easier to scrape away.
Is there something wrong?

[SantaMonica]

The growth is perfect. Some is letting go.

[Ace25]

That is a good mixture of food. There is bound to be something in there it will eat. I wouldn't put any pellets or flake in with the coral food, but those are good foods for your fish.

The bowl with a pipe on it sounds like a great idea.

[SantaMonica]

Make sure to only feed as much as your scrubber can handle.

[alargoen]

Yes, my tank is still quite empty now. I think the most of the nutrition that the scrubber get is from the rocks. And I will test the water frequently.

But I worry about the algaes on the scrubber, they are not as green as last Friday, and they are soft.

[alargoen]

2165
Good news is that two tangs eat flake food now, and bad news is that I hurted Goniopora when I replace it, now several heads of the goniopora is not extending very long as the other heads.