First Scrubber

[markrj]

Hi all!

New to the forums and new to the Saltwater Reef tank world.

Tank has been up for 3 months.

Had issues with Nitrates, Phosphates, GHA on glass, Cyano, etc.

Was led astray a little at the lfs when I purchased the tank and had a Magnum 350 canister and my LR as my filter.

I have been researching and shopping for sumps, skimmers, etc.

Found out about algae scrubbers and decided I had to try it.

Here it is with 5 days growth. I "seeded" it with some GHA I just grabbed off the back glass but the growth is amazing!

http://www.pcsincnet.com/Aquariums/Saltwater/SeventyFiveGallon/AlgaeScrubber1.jpg

http://www.pcsincnet.com/Aquariums/Saltwater/SeventyFiveGallon/AlgaeScrubber2.jpg

http://www.pcsincnet.com/Aquariums/Saltwater/SeventyFiveGallon/AlgaeScrubber3.jpg

Tested the water today. API Reef Master Kit + API Nitrite test.

0 Nitrite <- normal for my tank and happy about that! ;)
0 Nitrate! First time ever at zero! I have been fighting high nitrates with 20% water changes every 3-5 days. At their peak nitrates were 60+
<.25 Phosphates Like the nitrates, I had high phosphates. Water changes were keeping them in check.

I have not changed the water for almost 2 weeks now. Just top-offs.

First cleaning is scheduled for tomorrow. Should I use RO or just my very clean but very hard well water? My well water is awesome. I have had it tested extensively and I use it directly for water changes in all my FW tanks. I have an RO (No DI yet but it's coming soon)

I have a feeling this will not be the last Algae Scrubber I build. lol

[SantaMonica]

Good to see it work well so soon.

As it starts growing more/thicker, you will probably need to find a way to move the lights closer.

I'd probably not use well water for a current reef. Could be other things in well water that cause trouble. However if you want to test it on a new reef, start out with softies, then LPS, and see how they do.

[markrj]

Thanks!

RO water for the cleaning it is!

I plan on modifying this scrubber soon. It's too much fun! lol

Currently it is a 12" wide x 10" long screen. It sits in the water about an inch (or two inches when I do a fresh top-off)

Algae is also floating on the surface of the water in a couple of places where the screen meets the water line. Should I remove that?

Also there are "specks" all over the bottom of the 14 gallon tub. Is that normal? Should I get rid of them during the cleaning? I could pump the water into a couple of buckets and pull the entire tub out and clean it but that seems like a lot of work! lol

[Floyd R Turbo]

+1 on RO, but remember if you're not on city (chlorinated) water, then you need a different RO membrane. The standard ones are made to run on chlorinated water, to run one on non-chlorinated water you need the membrane that is resistant to bacteria or something like that. Also if you have hard water you might want an iron pre-filter so you don't burn out your membrane. Also verify water pressure.

[fauxjargon]

Nice scrubber! However, I would get an acrylic splash shield for that thing - you can already see marks where a little water has splashed on your reflectors. In addition, you should try and prevent any light from reaching your screen where it first comes out of the pipe so that algae doesn't block the flow.

[markrj]

Thanks fauxjargon!

Those water spots are my fault. I have very little splashing going on. However I plan on doing just what you suggest.

I also wrapped the clear return line with foam pipe insulation all the way to the bottom of the riser on the back of the tank. Not so much for heat loss but to shield it from the lights. I was seeing some algae starting to grow inside the return tube.

I am ordering a new lifereef overflow box that is supposed to provide up to 600gph. The current rate of flow is not quite what is required for a 12" wide screen. I need to get at least 420 gph and I am at approximately 250-300 gph.

Also picking up a custom 20 gallon long sump and refugium this week so I may do some modifications to use that instead of the plastic tub.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Easier than acrylic splashguard is just drape the screen in Saran wrap. Srusso recently posted a pic of his screen, originally the idea came from an RC Team member der wille zur macht just to drape it over the pipe and an inch down the screen, but srusso took it to the extreme and wrapped the whole dang screen in it, pic on post 3280 http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420

[markrj]

Floyd,

My RO setup is about 4 years old and was purchased for drinking water purposes with well water use intended from the start. However, i was unaware of this chlorine vs. no chlorine membrane concept so i will check on that with my filter supplier. Thank you for that information btw.

My system is from freedrinkingwater dot com and is a 90 GPD 5 stage RO with UV sterilizer and auxiliary pump to assist my well water pressure. I also have a 14 gallon pressure tank flled with RO water which fills a 5 gallon bucket in about 5-7 minutes. It recharges the tank to full pressure in 60-90 minutes. I plan to upgrade the pressure tank to a 45 gallon soon.

I need to add a DI stage and will be ordering that this week.

Free drinking water! LOL nothing is free. I buy my filters every 6 months and a new membrane every year or two. I may have to buy more membranes because I am using a lot more RO since setting up the reef tank.

I am getting a free set of filters from them because my buddy just bought an RO system from them and put me down as a reference. So for the first time in 4 years I get a bonus from them. That's cool with me. It's worth about $40 normally.

[markrj]

The plastic wrap splash guard sounds like a great idea!

I want to build an ATS out of acrylic like this one.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18350842&postcount=15

[SantaMonica]

Without the DI you are probably putting a lot of nitrate and phosphate into tank. If the scrubber is strong it will handle it, but you should know that it's going on.

[markrj]

Yep. Aware of that and that is why the DI stage will be here soon.

[markrj]

It's weird though. The test kits I have cannot detect any nitrates or phosphates in my straight well water or my RO water. I know my TDS is around 35 - 55 so that has to be something.

[markrj]

According to the new guidelines, my screen is way too big!

I only have 3 fish (mature pair of Clowns and Cave Goby) and feed about 1/4 of a cube per day. Am I not feeding these guys enough food? :confused:

[SantaMonica]

You can try feeding more.

[markrj]

Cleaned the screen. Don't have time to downsize until this weekend. It's doing a great job. Most of the cyano in my tank is gone! This after only 7 days of operation? Awesome!

I plan on using the downsized screen in a 20 long sump and refugium vs the Tub.

In the meantime, I see this at the bottom of the tub.

http://www.pcsincnet.com/Aquariums/Saltwater/SeventyFiveGallon/BottomOfAlgaeScrubberTub7Days.jpg

Should I clean that stuff up every time I clean the screen? If I have to do that, It might be a lot more difficult or even impossible to do once I go with the sump/refugium.

I suppose I could vacuum it and make it part of the water change ritual.

[Floyd R Turbo]

If you want. I leave it. Actually my sump has such high flow it hardly accumulates. You could just blow it back into the return pump. Detritus has a benefit in the tank (there was a thread about it on here that got started recently)

[SantaMonica]

Leave it.

[markrj]

Thanks!

Screen is clean but has some green coloring but very little to no hga on it after the cleaning. I tried to leave 10% but I might have been a little "aggressive" on the cleaning.

DT water is a little "cloudy". Is that normal? Will it clear up in a day or so?

[markrj]

3rd Cleaning today.

Here are both sides.

http://www.pcsincnet.com/Aquariums/Saltwater/SeventyFiveGallon/AlgaeScrubber3rdWeek1.jpg

http://www.pcsincnet.com/Aquariums/Saltwater/SeventyFiveGallon/AlgaeScrubber3rdWeek2.jpg

The back of the DT is much better. No long strands of GHA on it at all! A couple of large patches with all these little pods just munching away on it.

http://www.pcsincnet.com/Aquariums/Saltwater/SeventyFiveGallon/BackGlassAlgaeBubblesAndPods2.jpg

Also a lot of bubbles on a section of it.

http://www.pcsincnet.com/Aquariums/Saltwater/SeventyFiveGallon/BackGlassAlgaeBubblesAndPods1.jpg

Water parameters are absolutely perfect and I have not done a water change since a week before I installed the scrubber. I am going on a month with no water changes! Just top offs.

I know I need to downsize it as I am only feeding 1/2 cube per day. But, it seems to be working very well!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Looking great! That's some nice thick growth. I would leave it alone size wise until you start to get a decline in green and a shift over to the gooey yellow/carmel colored stuff. Until that point, the scrubber is pulling out all the junk that has built up over time and how long that takes depends on your tank.

BTW that bubbly stuff is dinoflagellates. I'd suck them out and watch your pH, and keep an eye on the rest of the tank to make sure you don't get a huge bloom of them. I had those with my top-of-tank setup, I blame that on constant light bleeding into the tank from the scrubber which was not well blocked.

[Ace25]

Hate to say it, but when you see those bubbles that usually means it is dinoflagellates and not hair algae, which is usually a nightmare to eradicate once it takes hold. Hope I am wrong about that.

Seems Floyd and I posted at the exact same time. ;)

[Floyd R Turbo]

I won hahahaha

Seriously though once your scrubber starts to go yellow start trimming it down to the feeding size. I had dinos in the tank and they would build up towards the end of the cleaning cycle, then right after cleaning they would pretty much go away. I was growing yellow goo with a brown slime coating (which I think it dinos) on the scrubber. Also had a lot of plastic canvas in the tank, like as an intake basket (top of tank temp setup). They killed off my RA green birdsnest and taxed a few other corals too.

Now I shielded the light and the scrubber is back in a sump but the dinos still show up on the front glass after a few days, but they're under control and really nothing much needs to be done, they're just a general nuisance and come off with the glass cleaning a couple times a week. Also I trimmed the screen down from 20" to 14" and that helped, but that's still too big. I think there is a connection between growing the yellow rubbery algae and production of dinos. I think there is also a connection between growing dinos and/or diatoms and plastic canvas. If you have extra canvas in the system that is not there as a substrate to grow algae, or if there is not GREEN algae growing on it, then it prompts growth for dinos. I have canvas in 4 places in the current setup that are not part of the scrubber (blocking bubbles, acting as non-pod-trapping particle filters, pump intake screens, etc) and all of them grow mad amounts of slimy brown goo.

The pattern I've seen is no yellow goo growing = no dinos (or no significant growth of dinos). Yellow goo growing = dinos, sometimes significant growth.

It's completely anecdotal, though. I soon plan to remove almost all of it when I replace the scrubber with a properly sized one and we'll see if that makes a difference.

I should note that before I moved the system, I only had dinos once, and it was in the sump only, and cleaning the waste out of the sump solved it. Surface water motion and surface skimming is a big one too (in the tank via overflow, not a skimmer) seems to make a huge difference too.

[markrj]

Thanks guys!

I will try to remove the dinoflagellates tomorrow.

I am placing an order for a new ph tester among other things.

[kerry]

That looks awesome!!! I just had that with my 40G LED scrubber last night for the first time and on the third cleaning just as you. I didn't get a pic as it was late. I was pretty excited to see 3D at an inch deep!!!

[markrj]

How do you scrape and vacuum at the same time? lol

[Floyd R Turbo]

You shouldn't need to really scrape them. They're not very strongly attached. Just get a standard siphon hose (without the gravel vac attachement) and run it right over the top of them. If you swish your hand by them they'll detach. When they get on rocks/corals I would start a siphon with airline tubing, that's all the suction you need. So if you want to minimize the water drawn out get a long airline hose and then attach one end to a stick or something so you can watch what you're doing and keep arms dry :)

[markrj]

Thanks Floyd!

[markrj]

Well that was easy!

Still managed to siphon about 4 gallons but I just replaced the water so all is good.

Looks a lot better too.

[markrj]

The back glass is being cleaned very quickly. I will have before and after shots soon.

However, I have noticed a significant increase in a dirty looking hairy growth on most of the rocks. It doesn't cover the entire rock but it is everywhere.

I made a 30 second video of it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01QQMgUOTYQ&hd=1

Is this the phosphate leaching out of the rocks issues I've read about? It started about the same time I started the algae scrubber but it is growing incredibly fast now.

Will it eventually go away?

[SantaMonica]

Yes it will go away.

[markrj]

I look forward to it. Thanks!

[kerry]

Its working, nice place for that Nephthea (Colt Coral) Mine is filling in nicely.