scrubber for100 gal reef tank

[DennisC]

After reading all the posts and threads on here, I decided it was about time to start to build my own scrubber.

I feed my tank between 2 and 3 cubes per day and I am looking at a screen size of 5" x 7" and the lighting will be by 2 x 20W CFL bulbs with reflectors

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/upgrade%204x2x2/IMG_6967.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/upgrade%204x2x2/IMG_6968.jpg

The main problem I have is the size of the access to the sump which is 8" high but when the scrubber is in the cabinet there is about 12" clearance.
The pipe will rest on the top of the centre section which is 8" x 3" and the 2 lights can be moved from 2" to 5" from the mesh.
The flow I will be using will be 670 litres per hour (if my calculations are correct).
For the drain, I will be drilling 2 holes in the base (1 at each end) and fitting pipes at different heights.

Any comments and critisisms welcome

Dennis

[kerry]

That should be a proficient scrubber, nice build to. I like the adjustable light to screen design. Good luck keep us posted.

[SantaMonica]

Great reflectors.

You might be able to move the lights a bit closer.

[DennisC]

Todays progress. Nothing is yet glued into place. Waiting till it all fits before that.

Cut a 5 1/2" slot in the pipe ready for the mesh and cut 2 'C' rings to hold the mesh in place.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_6973.jpg

There are 2 pieces of black acrylic, 1 at each end, which act as supports and will also act as drip preventors when they are finally glued into place

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_6971.jpg

The pump shown here is a 2000lph which is way to big so I will be using a 1400 lph pump with the tap controlling the flow.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_6972.jpg

Sorry it is out of focus. Photography is not my strongest subject.

SM.
The lights can be moved closer upto 2" from the screen and as far away as 6". The reflector and bulb holder come as a complete set from a Hydroponics firm and the 2 bulbs which are 20W 2700k each also from the same place.

Regards

Dennis

[SantaMonica]

If you can cover the top and bottom of the reflectors, they will be perfect.

[DennisC]

I will have a look at that. I cannot see any problem with the bottom of the reflectors but the top will be a problem as the lamp holders are about 2" above the level of the scrubber. But I will work on it.

Dennis

[kerry]

He is talking about putting a reflective surface under and over the bulb to direct more light to the screen.

[DennisC]

Todays updates.

I have drilled 2 holes in the bottom to take 25mm drain pipes. These pipes will be at different levels inside the scrubber.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_6974.jpg

I have fitted a reflective bit to the bottom of where the lights go.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_6975.jpg

Both lights fitted an working to show the bottom reflectors (hopefully this can be seen)

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_6977.jpg

A prototype top reflector for the lights. Not very happy with the way it looks, but it works. The 2 slots allow the lights to be moved either away from or closer to the mesh.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_6978.jpg

A piece of 5" x 7 1/2" mesh fitted into the slot. This has been roughed up but not sure whether it is enough.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_6981.jpg

Before I can fit it onto my sump, I have to re route my sump pump and pipework and the scrubber itself has to sit on 2 of the baffles in the sump.

Hopefully I will be able to wet test it tomorrow or Monday unless someone can tell me something I have missed.

Dennis

[SantaMonica]

I would not raise the drains up.

[DennisC]

Finally got it into the cabinet. Not a lot of room, but at least it is in and working.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_6982.jpg

Not a lot of room to take a decent picture.

I still have to tidy up the light cables (1 1/2 meters to cover 1/2 meter is a bit to long) and also fit a timer. Initally, I will be running the 18 on and 6 off and they are 3" from the screen.

The pump side has also to be sorted as at the moment, the pump is sat on the top of the skimmer pump. I have managed to adjust the flow to 800 lph (the screen is 6x6)

[kerry]

You have plenty of flow, you will find that the lights will more then likely need to be closer. Looks like it should do just fine, the addition of reflectors on the bottom and top will help to.

[DennisC]

I have fitted reflectors to both top and bottom and moved the lights to 2" from the mesh.

I have also today changed the mesh from a fabric one to plastic.

The fabric one had been in for 2 days and was beginning to show a brown colour.

Dennis

[kerry]

I think 2 inches is a good place to start. You should have growth on the plastic in two days as well.

[DennisC]

I have ordered 2 CFL spot light bulbs as I am having difficulty working in the sump with the lights being taller than the scrubber.

I have also ordered some red and royal blue LED's, heatsink and drivers as I intend building another scrubber later in the year.

Dennis

[DennisC]

A couple of pics showing my mesh after 1 week

1827
1828

[kerry]

Looking good Sir!!

[DennisC]

Pics after 2 weeks (12 days really)

1861

1862

I am very happy with the results so far, however I have just fitted CFL spotlights to each side as the previous lights were proving very difficult to work around.
Makes me wonder, looking at my results, whether I have made the right decision to try LED's.

Dennis

[DennisC]

I have just tested my parameters and found that both Nitrate and Phosphate have increased.
Nitrate from 15 to 25
Phosphate from .125 to .25 although it was just after feeding which may have some effect on the phos. reading.

Is this normal?

Dennis

[kerry]

I like to test mine in the morning before I feed or just before the evening feeding. I would not think nitrate or phosphate would be a huge difference after feeding. Maybe someone has a better answer then my guess on that question.
I get great results with my LED's, I would have a hard time going back to CFL.

[mess7777]

I think a lot of people have not noticed the parameters changing until 3-4 cleanings after starting. Kind of disheartening to see it go up though isn't it, after all the whole point of these things is to see a decrease!


I have just tested my parameters and found that both Nitrate and Phosphate have increased.
Nitrate from 15 to 25
Phosphate from .125 to .25 although it was just after feeding which may have some effect on the phos. reading.

Is this normal?

Dennis

[Byron]

Hi Dennis,
In one of your early screen shots, it has what looks like steel wire stitched through the screen, if so I would switch over to cable ties.
Cheers Ben

[DennisC]

It is plastic coated wire which has now been changed.

Dennis

[DennisC]

I have all my bits and pieces for the LED build except for the heatsinks. These are coming from heatsinkusa and at present they are in GB postal system, but it looks like I have some customs duty to pay. I decided to pass the time connecting the LED's to the drivers.

I have used 2 meanwell drivers as I am not sure how many LED's I will be using in the end. At present, I have wired up 6 reds (660 nm) and 1 royal blue for each driver.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_7020.jpg.

I will be using the origional ATS box and the heatsinks will be made to fit the 10" x 7".

I will post a pic this weekend of my mesh with 3 weeks growth. Looks good to me so far.

[kerry]

Looks good, do not let them run but for a few seconds without heat sinks other wise you might burn them out as they get very hot.

[Ace25]

Yup, what Kerry said.. don't run them more than a few seconds without a heatsink.

Also, your current setup, you can run all the LEDs off 1 driver if you wanted (14 LEDs per driver), but you max 1 driver out at that point, so if your idea is to have room to expand, keep the 2 driver setup you have now for that reason.

[DennisC]

Only switched them on to make sure they work ok.

I will be running both drivers just in case I either do an upgrade or decide to put extra LED's on this ATS.

Dennis

[gmoney243]

those drivers have a minimum leds of 8 i think also. you can always just run multiple string parallel off one driver.

[kotlec]

those drivers have a minimum leds of 8 i think also. you can always just run multiple string parallel off one driver.

Then you have half of current per string. 175mA instead of 350mA for example

[DennisC]

3 weeks going and looks ok to me

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_7024.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_7023.jpg

I have cleaned 1 side of the screen today

Dennis

PS. It is a lot greener than shows on the pic.

[Garf]

3 weeks going and looks ok to me

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_7024.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_7023.jpg

I have cleaned 1 side of the screen today

Dennis

PS. It is a lot greener than shows on the pic.

One side of the screen seems to have a lot longer growth than the other. Is there a variation in the amount of flow you are getting on the screen. And if so is the longer growth in the high flow or lower flow area.

[Floyd R Turbo]

What's the extra strip? And is that a "morgan" mod to the top of the screen / slot area?

[DennisC]

The extra strip at the side is a piece I cut off the bottom. I had to do this when I fitted the 'Morgan' mod as the screen was resting on the bottom of the scrubber.

Dennis

[Floyd R Turbo]

Ah. I would have just tossed it LOL

[DennisC]

Nearly tossed it, but then I would have been 6sq" short. Also thought about fitting a complete new piece, but then I would be starting over again.

Dennis

[mess7777]

weird to say, but nice algae!

[DennisC]

Found out today that my heatsinks will be delivered tomorrow. Had to pay £19.09 VAT and duty (about $27). Makes it an expensive build so I hope it is worth it LOL

Dennis

[DennisC]

Heatsinks arrived today som I have fixed the LED's to them

2007

2008

2010

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_7031.jpg

[DennisC]

I am having trouble with the 'morgan' method. I cannot stop the dripping water sound. Tried the plastic bag. I think I will be going back to the slot method.

Dennis

[mess7777]

what is the dripping? I originally had dripping due to extra width of the plastic wrap. i just folded it in so it was all touching the screen and all was well from there. However, if you switched maybe you have the slot as opposed to drilled holes. Maybe a slightly wider screen would be needed to accomodate the slightly different flow.

[DennisC]

Gone back to the slotand also fitted a new fabric screen. Silence at last.

Dennis

[DennisC]

New screen and LED's been up and running for 1 week now. I have made a 7x7 screen this time as I think I underestimated the food I was putting in the tank and upped the flow accordingly. The lights are approx. 2" from the screen and on 18 off 6.
The only thing on the screen after 1 week is a light brown covering - sorry - no pics

Dennis

[DennisC]

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_7042.jpg

After 3 weeks with the LED's and both sides are the same.

I reduced the lighting to 12/12 and the water flow to about 25gph. Is it time to push the flow back to the correct amount but leave the lighting as it is.

[mess7777]

That looks pretty green, I see some hairy stuff there too. Looking good!

[Floyd R Turbo]

So Dennis, just recapping here, you started this screen from scratch (new) and it took about 3 weeks to get this growth, with the lights about 2" away from the screen and 18/6 and flow at 25 GPH/in, is that all correct?

Did you clean the screen at all in the first 3 weeks?

[DennisC]

The lights were on 18/6 for the first week, but you suggested on another thread to make it 12/12 and lower the flow to about 25 gph so it has been set at that for the last 2 weeks. Not been cleaned at all untill today. I have cleaned both sides as the green was very oily both sides.
The lights are between 2 and 2 1/2 inches from the screen.

[Floyd R Turbo]

So in the pic you showed from 3 weeks ago (large pic a few posts back) that makes it look like the LEDs themselves are more like 4" from the center of the screen chamber - do you actually run them much closer than shown in that pic? (which I'm sure was to show off the LEDs...right?)

[DennisC]

Correct Floyd. The lights were further apart just for the pic. I have just remeasured and they are 4 1/2" from LED to LED, and the screen chamber is 3 1/4" outside measurement. 2 3/4 inside.

Just to recap, I am running 2 meanwell drivers, one each side.

Dennis

[Floyd R Turbo]

What type/model drivers, and out of curiosity, why run 2? I run all 14 of my LEDs on one LPC-35-700.

[DennisC]

I bought 2 LPC-35-700. drivers before I started and as I have them, then I may as well use them. It gives me the opportunity to add more LED's if required.

I seem to remember that you advocate 1 LED per 2x2 inch of screen. My screen is 7x7 which should be 12 LED's per side.

Dennis

[Floyd R Turbo]

yeah I just brought that up again on a thread Ace posted on, he uses one for every 4x4 area roughly and his does fine, also @ 700mA. So I think doing one every 2x2 is probably the maximum.

[DennisC]

Just out of curiosity, I have only been reefing for 7 years and I have never had any hair algae of any colour in my tank or sump apart from a small amount on my weir comb.
If there is no hair algae present, then how or why do I need to encourage it to grow.

Dennis

[Garf]

Just out of curiosity, I have only been reefing for 7 years and I have never had any hair algae of any colour in my tank or sump apart from a small amount on my weir comb.
If there is no hair algae present, then how or why do I need to encourage it to grow.

Dennis

Rather a strange question to ask AFTER you have put so much time,money and effort into this.

[DennisC]

Like I said, just curiosity. If there was no hair algae in the display tank why should I expect hair algae on the scrubber.

After 4 weeks with the LED's and a new screen, I am getting plenty of green 'slimey' growth with a small bit of green hair algae.

Dennis

[Floyd R Turbo]

That's great if you haven't had algae problems, but something has to export N and P too. Algae does that, and you are only encouraging it to grow on the scrubber for that purpose. You will always have algae in the system so if you aren't seeing it, you must have a good CUC or herbivores and a perform scheduled media and water changes. The latter two can be reduced.

[SantaMonica]

By exporting (scrubbing) more, you can feed more. Or start feeding, if you are not already feeding the corals.

[DennisC]

Since starting my scrubber about 6 weeks ago, I have removed my skimmer and only performed 1 10% water change as well as uping my feeding from 2 cubes to 4 per day.

I have changed my lighting period down to 12/12. Would it be beneficial to do it 6/6.

Dennis

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think a few people have tried that, but so far I don't think anyone has gotten better results going 6/6/6/6 vs 12/12. In fact I think it's the opposite. What has shown to get better results is putting a fan on the screen. I think Ace or Kerry said 2x growth.

[kerry]

Ace25 must have. I wanted to but my tank is an open top.

[DennisC]

My ATS is in the sump as is fully enclosed. No room for a fan.

Dennis

[Garf]

My ATS is in the sump as is fully enclosed. No room for a fan.

Dennis

Putting a fan on an ATS screen has massive chilling potential. This in itself may propagate algae growth but the cost of reheating the water would surely be prohibitive.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just a PC case fan is all you would need really. Not talking about a desk fan or anything like that.

[Garf]

With respect, a little air flowing over water that is already moving through air through gravity should have zero effect. However cooler temperatures would have an effect, probably on the quality of growth rather than the quantity.

[Floyd R Turbo]

You would think that logically, but doing exactly that has been shown to double growth.

[Garf]

You would think that logically, but doing exactly that has been shown to double growth.

That's my trouble sometimes - logic , but without accurate information logic breaks down into utter rubbish. Are you sure the pc fans are not just preventing overheating of the screens through excessive lighting. DennisC - apologies for going off topic but while the cats are away, the mice will play.

[Floyd R Turbo]

It was on Ace's LED build I believe. If Ace is listening, he can chime in.

[Garf]

It was on Ace's LED build I believe. If Ace is listening, he can chime in.

Yes I remember it, but he did also say that the chilling effect put his heaters into overdrive. ACE25 where are you when we need you?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Well I suppose that the only time you would want them running would be with the lights are on / growth is occurring for benefit of growth, but for the chiller effect it makes more sense to have them on in the middle of the day when the DT lights are burning. On the tank I run the scrubber on, the temp stays below 80 with the cabinet opened up, but during the day esp now the tank temp skyrockets to 84+ some days because of the location of the tank so I would be running them mainly for cooling, I don't know what effect that would have on growth during the tank.

Wow are we OT or what

[DennisC]

Going away for 9 days today, but I may have a look at this when I come back. I do have a couple of PC case fans but they are 4" dia. A CPU fan may fir into my ATS top though.

Dennis

[DennisC]

Latest pic of 1 weeks growth

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_7049.jpg

The pic looks like it is growing in the centre of the screen only. Do I put another LED in each corner or move the lights further away (about 1/2 inch or so).

When I cleaned the screen, it didn't seem that the growth was central, seemed to be pretty evenly spread.

MyNitrate and Phos seems to have doubled in the last 2 weeks. Is this normal?

Dennis

[Garf]

Pretty sure I have read somewhere that the stuff algae puts into the water can mess about with certain tests and give dodgy data. Seems this happens to lots of people with scrubbers, even if there feeding regime is the same as before a scrubber. Perhaps SM has got details on this. If your worried, a partial water change may reduce your stress levels.

[DennisC]

A pic of my LED scrubber after 7 weeks showing the last 7 days growth

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae17/haden869/Scrubber%20build/IMG_7052.jpg

Just a pic of my tank with only scrubber as filtration. No skimmer or any type of filtration or water changes

2565

Lots of SPS frags. waiting for them to grow.

Dennis

[kerry]

looking good

[DennisC]

hat will teach me to brag about not having any Hair Algae in my tank. Never had any in 7 years and now I have started a scrubber, I have a patch of green hair algae appearing on the rear glass of my tank.

Dennis

[DennisC]

It has now been about 10 weeks since I started with the LED scrubber, and there has been no increase in the amount of algae on the screen each week as well as not significant drop in Nitrate or Phosphate..

Seriously considering a UAS.

Dennis

[kerry]

With that amount of growth you sure should see a drop in the N and P.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I just skimmed this thread again and you've got 5x7 = 35 sq in, feed 2-3 cubes/day, each side has 6x 660nm and 1x 455nm, so 7x3W=21W on each side (actually 7x1.7W = 12W, but better source, spectrum, etc) so you're probably on par with the equivalent to a 23W CFL on each side.

I noticed that you mention possibly putting another LED in the corners to get the growth to go that way, in looking at your pics it looks like that might help a little, but I think what I would do is what did on my L2 scrubber, put a piece of diffuser on the window and push those heat sinks right up next to it. That's going to increase your intensity at the screen and blend the light (esp the blue) a little better. I drilled the heat sinks and installed screws to stand it off the diffuser (keep the LEDs from touching anything) and that seems to work well so consider that.

Also if it's not too much of a PITA you might consider moving the red LEDs so they are equally spaced in a grid pattern. Figure out how you could divide your screen into 6 equal parts, then center a red LED on each section, and leave the blue dead center middle of the screen. The round pattern you chose seems to be the problem with the corners not filling in. Center the red on their sections, diffuse them, and push them as close as you can to the screen, and extend the photoperiod, that's my advice. Adding another 2 reds per side wouldn't hurt either, or maybe even 4. If you added more LEDs, you wouldn't need to extend the photoperiod as much (or at all).

[DennisC]

Trying this week with 18/6 lighting, see if that helps lower the N and P. I cannot find any diffuser sheets over here yet, but still looking.

Dennis

[kerry]

Look here!!! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXTRUDED-ACRYLIC-PRISMATIC-3MM-THICK-LIGHTING-DIFFUSER-PMMA-PACK-10-A4-SIZE-/180762074261 .
Its also called Acrylic Prismatic Diffuser.