Now building: Waterfall 3D LED Algae Scrubbers

[Floyd R Turbo]

I have had quite a few people, both locally and online, ask me about building them a scrubber and how much it would cost. I've been holding people off for about as long as I can while waiting for the Scrubber-II to come out. That turned out to be a good thing because it gave me time to contemplate my designs.

I have developed a line of LED based Type-I Algae Scrubbers. These are sized based on feeding and use either a custom-built (DIY) LED fixture, or the e-Shine 50W grow bar. They are fully enclosed black acrylic boxes designed for 3D growth and maximum blockage of light bleed.

I am in the middle of finishing the prototype e-Shine scrubber (more on that later), and have the parts ready to go for the smaller versions.

I will be offering 3 models to start: 1 cube/day, 2 cube/day, and 4 cube/day.

The 4 cube/day scrubber uses 2 50W e-shine fixtures.

The 1 and 2 cube/day scrubbers uses two DIY fixtures, each of which consists of a heat sink, 660nm Red and 450-455nm Royal Blue 3W LEDs, and a Meanwell LPC-35-700 driver.

I will be offering several options. You may purchase the fully assembled Algae Scrubber, you may purchase the box and all the LED parts and assemble the fixtures yourself, or you may just purchase the box and use your own fixture.

As for the LEDs (for the options where I sell you the parts or assembled fixtures) you can choose between Osram 660nm and Cree Royal Blue LEDs, or the less expensive versions from SatisLED, which are Epistar 660nm and Epiled 450-455nm chips.

Each scrubber will come as follows:

The main body of the device will be 100% 1/4" Plexiglas-G Cell Cast acrylic, black body for light blocking and clear window. The e-Shine Algae Scrubber also has a piece of 1/8" black acrylic with a cutout that is laminated over the clear window.

The top brace or cover will eventually have a thin colored extruded acrylic laminated to it for logo etching and to distingush it. I may also offer custom choices of the top color.

Assembled slot pipe: 3/4" schedule-40 PVC pipe with screen slot, end cap, union, and gaskets (for blocking water creep along the pipe)

#7 Plastic Canvas screen, roughed up, with beaded cable ties for easy removal of screen for cleaning and maintenance

Center hole in bottom for 1" ABS bulkhead from Bulk Reef Supply (hole also accommodates Schedule-80 bulkhead).

Interior of box has a false bottom to promote 3D growth and help prevent algae from growing into the bulkhead drain. The bottom inch of box is completely light-blocked. I also may add an airline hose ran to the drain to quiet the drain.

Side of box will have a secondary drain hole and a Uniseal bulkhead for inserting a 1" street elbow and plumbing back to the sump as a mean of emergency overflow should the bottom drain clog. It also can act as a outlet vent for active cooling provided by a modification to the top cover that will incorporate a vent fan. That is a future item that I am working on incorporating, but would be pretty easy to DIY a mod.

I am dubbing the models the "L1" for the custom LED 1 cube/day scrubber, and the "L2" for the 2 cube/day scrubber.

DIMENSIONS:

Both boxes are 7.25" tall and 7.5" wide

L1 is 7" long and will have 6" x 5.886" heat sinks from Heat Sink USA, fins vertically oriented. LEDs will consist of 4 reds and 1 blue on each side. Blues will be wired in parallel within the series so that they run at 1/2 current of the reds. Screen will be 4" wide and 4" tall. Just because 3" wide is silly.

L2 is 9" long and will have 6" x 8.460" heat sinks from Heat Sink USA, fins vertically oriented. LEDs will consist of 6 reds and 1 blue on each side. All LEDs running at same current. Screen will be 6" wide and 4" tall.

There will be no active cooling of the LEDs required. The fixtures will be recessed into the box and protected on all sides, with only the heat sink fins exposed, but the fixture will also be coated with a protective spray. There will be a small range of adjustment for distance between the LEDs and the screen. The rest will be taken care of by altering the photoperiod. This has yet to be determined, but it is highly likely that these boxes will qualify under the double-light rule, and will likely need to be on much less than 18 hours per day.

The interior of the box (screen housing) is 3" between the window panels, primarily mandated by the dimensions of the bulkhead flange, but also for easy of cleaning.

I left additional length inside the box (along the pipe) to allow for 3D growth and also for a flow path under the false bottom. Thanks is due to Chrissu who first suggested this concept of the false bottom to me last year. We'll see how it works.

AVAILABILITY:

As of this point, I am a few weeks out on being ready to build any significant quantity of scrubbers. I have a moderate workload of tanks and sumps to clear in my acrylics shop, then I'm fully dedicated to building scrubbers, as long as there is a demand for them.

I will be building several of these for people to test (sorry, testers are local to me and already selected). After any kinks are worked out, they'll go into production.

PRICING:

For the scrubber without any light fixtures (this price includes box, cover, slot pipe assembly, roughed up screen, bulkhead, etc - everything except the light fixtures)

L1: $155
L2: $175

For the scrubber with the build-it-yourself LED kit (which include the above box plus LEDs, heat sinks, driver, and probably some wire and Arctic Silver epoxy):

L1 w/ Osram & Cree: $270
L1 w/ SatisLED: $230

L2 w/ Osram & Cree: $315
L2 w/ SatisLED: $265

...and the scrubber with fixtures built and ready to go is just $50 more (just a couple hours of labor to wire up all the LEDs):

L1 w/ Osram & Cree: $320
L1 w/ SatisLED: $280

L2 w/ Osram & Cree: $365
L2 w/ SatisLED: $315

These are designed to be pump fed. After running both, I have come to the conclusion that it is the safer option, and provides more consistent results. The Eheim Compact 1000 pump is adjustable and provides 40-265 GPH of flow for just $33, and is the pump I recommend for both the L1 and L2. The pump is not included in the above prices, but can be added for no markup (add my shipping cost to the $33 and it's still less than you'll pay since I'll buy 5 or 10 at a time)

Shipping is currently $35, but is subject to change since I ballparked that number.

6% Sales Tax is due only if you live in the State of Iowa.

These are introductory prices and are subject to change. If I decide to beef up part of the design, or testing reveals room for improvement, I will likely do so in order to provide the highest quality product.

PICTURES???

I don't have pictures of a completed L1 or L2 yet, but I do have pictures of a nearly complete e-Shine Scrubber. Well, the box anyways. So just to whet your appetite for wicked awesome black acrylic boxes...

Here is the box with the 1/8" black acrylic blocker installed (the boxes with the custom LED fixture will not have these)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00138.jpg

To support the fixture, a set of brackets is installed

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00140.jpg

Which holds the fixture nice and snug

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00141.jpg

The little squares will be drilled and tapped, then this bracket...

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00142.jpg

...is placed over the fixture like so...

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00143.jpg

...and held in place with thumbscrews. The squares with the cutouts for the fan are designed so that you can place a foam material (TBD, probably Poret) that will prevent stray water droplets from getting sucked into the fan, as well as reduce evap moisture from getting into the fixture. There are slots above and below the bracket that allow airflow from the fixture to continue unimpeded. I will also be adding a drip lip which will prevent water from wicking under the top panel and potentially dripping on the fixture.

This box is 7.25" tall x 21" long x 9" wide.

The L1 and L2 are 1.5" narrower as the fixture isn't a big, and lengthwise are sized to match the heat sink (which just happened to work out, by the way).

If you want to order one of these (L1 or L2), let me know. But just be aware that you probably won't receive it until mid-April at the earliest.

And also as a disclaimer, these are NOT, I repeat, NOT the new and unreleased version that Santa Monica is working on. No one but he and his patent attorney know about that concept. I decided to go ahead and start making these because for the majority of the first year of the Scrubber-II, it will probably be in a testing and troubleshooting phase, and kind of 'experimental' I guess you could say. But there are people out there that want something that works now, and I am hoping these will 'fill the gap' without breaking the bank.

I also hope (though I cannot by any means promise) that the LED fixtures used in these may be utilized in some way on a Scrubber-II, and if it is possible to build a Scrubber-II in such a way that the fixture(s) can be used, I will be offering a dicsounted price on the upgrade box.

Post or PM if you have any questions!

Again. This is NOT the Scrubber-II. This is based on the current design techniques. It just kicks that much more butt over any other scrubber you're seen baby.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I should note that I have an LLC setup, registered with the State of Iowa, and I'm insured. Otherwise I wouldn't be making and selling anything.

Also, I plan on designing a couple add-ons:

- A rack system for spanning the box across a sump
- The aforementioned active cooling system (have to consider various means of controlling it via aquarium controller)
- An in-sump bubble diffuser (which may be useable in-tank)

[kerry]

That looks great Floyd!!! Good work Sir.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Thanks! Depending on cost and how the testing goes, I might make a 3-cube/day custom LED version.

[Nick]

I am interested in ordering one of the L2 w/ Osram & Cree for $365.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Cool! I'll let you know when I am ready to start building them en mass

In the meantime, here's a few more pics of the e-shine scrubber

drilled & tapped

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00199.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00200.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00201.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00198.jpg

holes drilled for power cords

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00213.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00216.jpg

Window for lights

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00215.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00214.jpg

Power on!

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00217.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00218.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00219.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%204%20Cube%20per%20day/DSC00220.jpg

Youtube vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXpz7rf771k

[mess7777]

crazy purple!

[kerry]

That's 660nm with some blues mixed in. One side of mine glows like that. I think the blues are going to make an effect Floyd!! My side with the one 445nm added did a lot better then the other. Granted the side with the 445 has 5 LED's and the other had one less LED with just 4 660nm. I want to add an extra 660 to make if 5 on each so I can get a fair test. But by the results I think the blues are a benefit so far.
Nice Build Floyd, those are looking real good!

[jimrawr1]

I am interested as well. Any idea when you will have an L2 fully built with some pics?

[Floyd R Turbo]

I just started bonding the first one. Have pics but haven't uploaded them - maybe tomorrow. We have a frag fest Saturday and I have 4 tanks to finish up...way to much going on!!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Had to let the dog out...so while I wait...

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%202%20cube%20per%20day/DSC00249.jpg

Heat sink is a perfect fit

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%202%20cube%20per%20day/DSC00250.jpg

and I got a nice stack of them

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%202%20cube%20per%20day/DSC00251.jpg

along with a batch of bulkheads

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%202%20cube%20per%20day/DSC00252.jpg

and LEDs

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Acrylic%20Projects/Algae%20Scrubber%20-%202%20cube%20per%20day/DSC00253.jpg

[kerry]

Looks like your in the business to make something??? Looking good Sir.

[akando]

I will take an L2 sir!

[Marlon904]

me too!!!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Noted!

[Ace25]

Wow, that is some THICK acrylic. Those things are going to be built like a TANK! Great job! They look like SM100s on steroids, and should function like it as well.

[Floyd R Turbo]

It's just 1/4", same as SM100...

[Ace25]

Hmmm, I guess I haven't played around with much 1/4" acrylic then.. stuff looks thick enough to build a 100+ gallon tank out of. ;)

[Floyd R Turbo]

Oh hell no, 1/4" is good for almost nothing w/r to display tanks. Sumps with baffles, maybe. I even build 12" tall sumps out of 3/8" then eurobrace it unless there are enough baffles. The cost difference between 1/4 and 3/8 is negligible

[jimrawr1]

How are they coming along Floyd?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Took most of the past week off to spend time with fam. Ignored them for 2 weeks pretty much prior to our frag fest last weekend. So not much progress. Tomorrow I will be knocking a few out.

[akando]

What's your PayPal addy?

[Floyd R Turbo]

pm'd

[Nick]

Still looking forward to buying a scrubber from you. Keep up the good work

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'm getting close to releasing it for sale.

[whites]

looks good and a good price too mate... If you have time can I confirm a few things with you please?

What are the exact dimensions on the L2
what would the cost be to ship to Australia and could you make it for our power supply here..

I would buy the L2 fully rigged with the better leds (?) and possible the pump i would however look at the price here in oz for the pump pending on price.

you mentioned an air tube poked up the drain pipe, Just an idea but allot of people here have changed our DT drains to syphons could this work under the false floor of the unit? maybe 3 holes 1 with an extension like a weir this would be the back up and could work as a breathing pipe, the other 2 flush with the bottom and with ball valves on them to tune and limit the flow creating a syphon? they are silent. not sure how it would work with a shallow bottom may even need 4 for better tuning.. hows that sound..

look forward to your response.

[Floyd R Turbo]

What you are referring to is the "BeanAnimal" 3-pipe system, and is way too complicated for a scrubber, plus who knows what is coming and what it might change (referring to scrubber type-II).

In flow testing the bigger scrubber with the e-shine fixtures, which has a 16" screen and thus needs about 560 GPH of flow, I discovered the dirty little secret of the large, enclosed box, single drain scrubber: there is no way to keep the drain silent. There is no way to push that much water through a single 1" bulkhead and keep it quiet. It must siphon and flush, or continuously suck air loudly.

I discovered this by trying a few things; first, I filled the sink with water and put the drain pipe connected to the bulkhead below the water line and got the pump running full throttle. With the false bottom it intermittently sealed off the air and flushed the box, and the water level was always at the bottom of the screen or lower. I put in the air line and that didn't change a whole lot, maybe it flushed a little less often.

Next, I took out the false bottom. The water level at full throttle (>600 GPH) was about 3/4" deep in the box, which is about 1/4" or so below the bottom of the screen in this case. And loud.

Next, I put the airline hose into the drain. The drain immediately went silent, but the box filled about 1/2 way up. The airline actually slow the flow of water down the drain.

Next, I took out the PVC drainpipe out and put in a standpipe screen insert to try and calm the output. I was surprised to discover that this caused the box to fill up again. I took it out, so there was just a bulkhead and nothing screwed into it, and the box filled up in that configuration as well.

Next, I attached a short section of pipe that terminated just above the water line. Box filled.

Next, I attached a slightly longer section of pipe, that terminated just below the water line. Box ran 3/4" at bottom and continuously loud sucking/gurgle sound.

From my experience running a BeanAnimal 3-pipe system (I run one), this now makes perfect sense. Bean has a calculator on his website that shows this actually, that a closed siphon drain can pull a lot more flow than a open ended drain. However in this case, the Achilles Heel is that the drain blows a ton of air into the sump. The solution is multiple drains to distribute the flow, which is what I am going to have to do. I'm going to try 2 drains first, if that doesn't shut it up, I'll go to 3. The end client has the space for that option if I need to go there.

The flipside is that the L2 scrubber only needs 210 GPH and at this rate of flow, the drain will run open air and very likely it will be easy to keep silent, so there's no need for complicated drain systems, and probably no need for the airline tubing either. The false bottom will work perfectly (it serves another purpose)

The power supply is universal, Meanwell LPC-35-700 driver, which I believe runs on 85-277V or some wild range like that. I have no idea on international shipping cost so I'll have to look that one up...

[Ace25]

Tip I have found to help is some situations like your describing Floyd. On the top of the bulkhead, if you glue 2 little thin pieces of plastic, slightly curved on opposite sides of the bulkhead in order to make the water spiral down the drain it seems to really help solve the draining issue you're having. Hard to describe, but the picture in my head is clear as day. LOL. My other thought was to put 2 bulkheads and then connect them directly under the scrubber with 45's and flex PVC to a 1"x1"x1.5" T adapter and have a 1.5" drain line after the 2 are connected. If you really wanted to get fancy, you could drill a hole in the top of the T and glue a piece of air tubing at that junction point, although I think you would get a tiny amount of water spitting out the air tubing occasionally so that option would only work good if the ATS was directly over the sump, not a HOB type of install.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I had that concept in mind actually, with the false bottom I was going to put a few diverters in place that would cause the water to rotate like you described, but on the "approach path" to the bulkhead. I could bond them to the false bottom and make them right over the bulkhead instead, I hadn't thought of that. So I may still try this, but I don't have a lot of confidence that it will work, the flow is just too much.

I think about it like when you fill a sink full of water then pull the plug. The water naturally spirals down but runs slower as a result since air is getting into the drain. If you put your finger in the middle of the 'tornado' then it drains faster. This was my idea behind the flow diverter...thanks for the tip Ace, I was going to give up on that idea...

[Floyd R Turbo]

I tried adding a couple of flow diverters like you mentioned, it didn't make a difference though. However, I played around with it for a while and came across a combination that seemed to work. If I put an airline hose into the drain with the false bottom in place, the box won't fill with water unless you flow on the pump is cranked to full. The pump valve is like any other ball valve, you can turn it a full 1/4 turn to go from low flow @ 400 GPH to max flow @ 800 GPH. Max flow fills the box about 1/2 way, then knocking it back about 1/8 of the 1/4 turn drains the box down to the level of the false bottom.

Oh yeah and it runs silent too. Yeah!

[Ratz]

Will you be making these scrubbers for sale and if so would you ship to UK. I have a small scrubber at the moment-way under the size needed-but I'm a great fan of these filters. The one I've seen from yourself really looks great and I'd like one if possible. No...quite simply "I want one"

[Floyd R Turbo]

I am building these for a few local people to test out and give me feedback on the design and effectiveness. After any kinks are worked out I will be selling these, haven't looked into international issues re: shipping/exchange rates, etc, but you're not the first person out of the US to ask and since the LED drivers are universal voltage it's an easy fix. Although by the time I get to that, the type-2 scrubber will be out so that might set me back on design depending on what it is, so I am holding off on making any and shipping out to anywhere that is not local. If it was 2-3 months away, I probably would be, but since it's 3 weeks away...worth waiting

[Ratz]

Thanks for your reply. Will be keeping my eye out for the type 2 scrubber. I have a small scrubber which was made for a nano tank and grows algae like mad but my tank is a 6x2x2 so I need a much bigger scrubber especially as my wife really does overfeed. Thanks. John

[whites]

cheers for the reply.. guess ill wait for the new design, like everybody else here. exchange is simple if you have paypal they do it for you.. our dollar is stronger atm.. if you had the total weight of the unit and bits plus weight of shipping box/boxes you could just do a search for internationall shippers and throw in my address in oz (PM me for it) pretty sure most shippers have a easy to use calculator. id would expect it to be about $100 - $150 in shipping thats in au$.

If the new design is still box style and wanted to go syphon (never heard of the term you used) Id still recomend a third pipe slightly risen above normal operating water line to ensure if the 1 or 2 of the working valved drains block there is always an open one..

see what happens ey...

[Floyd R Turbo]

Here's what I got done this weekend

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Algae%20Scrubbers/L2%20Type-I%20Algae%20Scrubber/DSC01021.jpg

These are the frames for 6 L2 scrubbers. I also have the bottoms cut and ready to bond, and the tops rough cut but not routed.

I also pre-tinned about 120 LED so those are good to go. I think I have inhaled enough rosin smoke to last me a week or so.

These are all spoken for BTW. Most of these will be local test units. The next batch will be done on a CNC. Just found a 50" x 100" one locally :)

[Jason]

Hey Turbo, if i give you some plans, can you deliver a quotation ??

Tnx

[Bart]

Are the pictures at the beginning of the thread for the L4 or the next model scrubber II? This is the e-shine box that is 7.25" tall x 21" long x 9" wide. Do you have pricing for the L4 or know when you might start making them?

[Floyd R Turbo]

The e-shine fixture is only made in batches of 30 now so I won't be making any more of them. Well maybe one more, since I have 2 fixtures. I will be making an L4 and probably L3 with heatsinks and 3W LEDs like the L2. Maximum length for most of my scrubbers will probably be 16" wide (screen width) and that was the width of the e-shine scrubber and that pretty much maxes out the drain while keeping it quiet. Otherwise the drain needs to be terminated in the sump and siphon and it starts to get pretty loud, but my false bottom design takes care of noise right up to that width so far. Could go wider with a double drain possibly but that would probably only be for custom jobs.

I am theorizing that LED powered scrubbers will be able to handle a larger feeding load than CFLs or T5HO scrubbers. To my knowledge, this has not really been thoroughly explored, but all signs are pointing to better green growth = higher filtration capacity.

As far as making them, I want to make sure the L2 is a robust design before making larger devices. There are a few things I would like to track such as time to ramp up the screen, proximity of LEDs, diffusion, etc. That's why I'm building the first 6 for local folks to try out (3 of them will be on tanks I maintain)

[kodiak66]

Well done, I am interested to obtain the L2 without leds and how?
Please keep me posted,

[Bart]

Just curious on the e-shine, what is its capacity? What is it's price? Would you recommend waiting for a L4?

I should mention I am a month or so away from having my 180 in-wall build ready so not too big a hurry at this point. I do like a reef tank that is stocked well with fish and fed well so I am expecting to need a good nutrient export with a skimmer and ATS working together. I have a good skimmer.

How long to you expect the testing to go before you will be building the L4 models?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Not very long. One of the L2s will be going on a tank that feeds way more than 2 cubes/day so I'm looking for some long-term heavy load tests. Really the thing is that the screens won't ramp up and start giving good "test" results for several months, but over time, I should be able to get a handle on capacity since every device will be consistent.

So I guess there really is no point in waiting, if you want one, just let me know via PM and I'll shoot you my e-mail addy and we can go from there.

I've already got another batch of 6 committed. I'm working on the CNC layout to see how many I can squeeze onto a full sheet so I can do these in specific batch sizes. Plus I might throw in an L4 layout as well for a local tester

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just noticed the thread title change. Waterfall sounds better than Type-1 anyways...

Tops on

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Algae%20Scrubbers/L2%20Type-I%20Algae%20Scrubber/DSC01086.jpg

Bottoms on

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2012%20Algae%20Scrubbers/L2%20Type-I%20Algae%20Scrubber/DSC01087.jpg

[Floyd R Turbo]

This set is almost done. If I can only get a few hours...this week has been busy!

Anyways, the next set or parts will be done on CNC next week. I'm going to start a new thread soon for the L2 with pics and updated details.

[sabbath]

Following along :) What is the large hole in the side for? Viewer?

[Bart]

Is that large whole the emergency overflow just in case the main gets clogged.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yes, I'll detail this more in the L2 thread I'm working on. You put a Uniseal bulkhead in it then a 1" street elbow. It also provides a vent path in case you have a fan built into the lid (which I am working on)

[fit]

Floyd, what is the fan for? Is it to cool the LED heat sink? I ask because one reason I would want a waterfall scrubber instead of the submerged screen is because I was hoping to incorporate evaporation cooling to help keep my tank under say 82 F without a chiller. Do you see a way to incorporate enhanced evaporation cooling with your design? Perhaps something (a fan or a vent) that can be kicked on when the temp gets high and turned off when it's no longer needed.

[Floyd R Turbo]

The fan I was referring to was to be incorporated into the lid so that it blows down on the screen and the emergency drain would act also as an outlet for the air. The purpose is to 1) provide cooling of the tank by means of evaporation and 2) to push air through the box and promote better growth. This has been reported to double growth (delivering air across the screen)

The LEDs are no oversized heat sinks and will not require active cooling, as long as they are not in a tightly enclosed space with zero air movement (which would be a rare case I would think)

[Garf]

This seems to tie in with ACE25's reports. I am interested in the Fact that lower temperatures combined with higher co2 promotes better growth (better quality growth anyway).

[Drewfish]

These look great Floyd!! Can't wait to have one over my sump!!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Here is a sneak peek at the finished product. I got the pumps yesterday, had to search around for the right adapter and get some hose, then I cut a slot tube and assembled everything except the LEDs and did a flow test & played around with it a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4HeDErpUZg

[sabbath]

Looking good!

[tomservo]

You should offer the CNC'd parts as a kit!

[Floyd R Turbo]

That came up in a conversation once a while back - not such a bad idea actually...might make that an option, the total DIY kit!

[thegreek]

Im new to this forum as i just joined and last year i was following the santa-monica 100. I read alot of the posts for this new setup and was just wondering, is this just a newer version of the original (SM100) which uses LED's and much smaller in size? Im very interested when they do become available as i always had trouble keeping my nitrates and that brownish alge on the sand in check. I have a 210 FOWLR set up. Thanks and i look forward to more info and more posts when available.

[Floyd R Turbo]

The SM100 is a waterfall scrubber and was made by Santa Monica (in CA). Mine is also a waterfall scrubber and is made by me (in IA). They both use black acrylic to block light, there is a center chamber that houses the screen, they both have a drain at the bottom, etc etc. Just about any enclosed-box waterfall scrubber will have these traits.

Mine is not a 'version of' anyone else's design, it is simply my design. There are many other designs that look similar to each other.

But yes my design is smaller (based on feeding vs SM100 originally based on tank size) and uses LEDs instead of fluorescent.

I would have started a new thread last week but it's been one thing after another for the last week. We let go an employee at work, then I had one of my customer's pumps trip the GFCI and the tank was off for 13 hours, I live with kids, 'nuff said. The good news is that I got all the parts for 15 L2's done on a CNC and picked them up on Monday. Hopefully I will get a chance to get a start on them this coming weekend...

[thegreek]

I know that these are 2 different designs from 2 different people, was just saying that yours is newer and does the same just in a smaller setup and cheaper which is great. I know you go by cubes a day so is it alright to over scrub?meaning if I feed 2 cubes a day but want to purchase the 4 cube a day setup. My tank is still growing as planning to add more fish down the road so maybe the 4 cube a day will be perfect to have for future additions to my tank. I understand also about the family as I have 2 kids myself

[Floyd R Turbo]

I didn't mean to come off confrontational in that last message, I was just stating facts. So I hope that didn't come off that way, sorry it if did!

As a rule of thumb, it has been suggested that you don't size the screen more than about 50% larger than you feed. With that being said, you can run the lights less hours if you start getting yellow growth which would be an indicator of over-scrubbing I suppose.

What you could do is have a 4 cube/day box but put a 2 cube/day screen in it and 'bypass' half the LED array, then when you're ready for more feeding you just replace the slot pipe with a longer cut one, add a second screen section, and re-connect the rest of the LEDs. Come to think of it, that might be a good option to make for the L4...

[thegreek]

No you didn't come off confrontational dont worry about it. I was hoping you didn't think I was coming on that way. Well lets forget about that nonsense and get onto the real fun- the scrubber. I will probably get the L4 and leave it as 4 cube a day because by the time I will actually get it into my hands and installed I will have more fish and feeding 3-4 cubes a day with a sheet of Seaweed for my tangs. Thanks again and can't wait to finally get rid of my nitrates and alge

[JMG]

I'm new here. What size of tank could one of these scrub? I have a freshwater 2500Gallon tank in my greenhouse.

[Floyd R Turbo]

You might need a couple of these then LOL!!

Scrubbers are sized based on the amount you feed. This one is sized to handle 2 cubes of food per day. A cube of food is about 1 cubic cm, roughly. If you look at this >>sticky<< (http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1958-Updated-sizing-guideline-for-scrubbers) under the FAQ section, you will find more detail.

[Ratz]

Hi
How are you coming along with the 4 cube scrubber

[Floyd R Turbo]

Haven't even started on designing it. I'm in the middle of building 15 L2s.

[thegreek]

Just wondering What was e-shine scrubber?

[Floyd R Turbo]

You mean how much or what did it look like? Post #6 if it's the latter, for price I really don't know, they guy I built it for bought me an extra set of the e-shine fixtures, I had been wanting to build a scrubber around those so it gave me a purpose.

[thegreek]

Going by the size it looks like a 4 cube a day scrubber. Is that what it is? Or something else

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yes, the e-shine scrubber was actually over 4, 16" x 4" / 12 = 5.33 cubes/day so about 5-ish

[rygh]

Very nice design!!

Must be nice having access to a CNC machine, instead of the mess a bandsaw makes.

Cool to see a LED solution as one of the DIY resellers.

One thought : Consider white acrylic. Bouncing the light around can be a benefit.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I have a router table and a set of 3/8" thick templates so making them by hand was pretty simple using double-stick tape and a spiral upcut flush trim bit, but the CNC just saved my time, of which I have very little to spare lately...

White acrylic is much less common and therefore more expensive, since it generally has to be special ordered. Good idea though, I might consider that if I can get some at the right price.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I know there are a lot of people waiting for me to get rolling on making these, but believe me that it will be worth the wait. I've been improving things as I've been building the latest batch.

Today, I finally got a chance to test out an idea I had to silence the drain.

First off, I figured out that I did not have the scrubber level during the last test (post #51), I had it on 2 pieces of acrylic and one piece was thicker than the other. Using 2 equal thickness pieces actually made quite a difference, the water circled the drain much better, but was still not silent.

What I did is put a reducer in the bulkhead (1" threaded to 3/4" slip) and then inserted a short section of pipe into the reducer. It still was somewhat noisy, but then I put my finger over the pipe section and it silenced it. By reducing the 'maximum' flow rate through the pipe, what essentially happens is that the flow is backed up into the drain pipe. This creates a head pressure which increases flow, so as you restrict the flow more, the water backs up a little more then levels out. There is a balance point at which the scrubber box drains slower but does not back up into the box. It's more like a range actually. So with the scrubber on top of a sump, with more of a vertical drop, or with a higher flow rate / larger pump, this balance point would vary.

So what you should be able to safely do with this scrubber is to put a gate valve on the drain and tune it so that you get a silent drain. And no bubbles. Did I mention that? Yeah, no bubbles.

The valve can be any size pipe, you could bump it up to 2" for that matter as long as you could choke it off enough to back the flow up into the drain pipe.

I should state that this scrubber design is currently the only one that I have seen on which you may use this technique. The only reasons you can do this is because of the secondary drain and false bottom. Since algae won't be in direct contact with the drain, this should prevent algae from blocking the drain and slowing down the flow, and if there is some detachment that goes down the secondary drain will kick in, and since it is also 1", it is well under the maximum flow rate and can handle the full flow volume in the event of a complete blockage.

Here is a video of how this works:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyGlvM5lBaM

[Floyd R Turbo]

Here's an overview video I put together. Working on a new thread to summarize everything...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yazI0DsdhdA

[tomservo]

Floyd, have you considered making key parts of the scrubber out of mirror acrylic? I know it's quite a bit more expensive than clear (but then black often is too) but you could salvage a lot of light! I picked up a chunk and the next scrubber I make will at least have sides made of mirror.

PS still interested in possible precut "kits".

[Floyd R Turbo]

Wouldn't really do much for the way I build them

New thread up now for the L2

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?2010-Now-in-Production-L2-Waterfall-LED-2-Cube-day-Algae-Scrubber

[thegreek]

This thread has been really quite lately. Any new news or updates.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'm pretty busy with just the 2 cube/day L2's right now, I'll be updating this thread with more info as I build the prototype L4 next month.

Also I have toyed around with the pre-cut kits. The problem here is that these are not a simple project. I have built plenty of sumps, and tanks as large as 120g out of material as thick as 3/4" and I have to say that building these scrubbers is actually quite complex and intricate. I use the pins method and a custom solvent mixture that is similar to WO #5. I haven't screwed up anything beyond repair so far, but I've come close a few times.

It's not like one would be able to just throw it all together with WO #16 and call it good. I'm still working through some issues with my CNC guy, and I'm hesitant to send out parts to anyone that doesn't have a fair amount of experience with acrylic - I could see someone thinking it would be a good "first project" and I can tell you the answer is no to that one, at least not at this point.

Someone pointed out to me once that Avast marine kits are sometimes put together great, and other times look horrible. But those are simple joints of tube to flat sheet. These scrubbers gotta be put together right and it is screw-up able, quite easily actually if you don't have much experience. So I don't see pre-cut kits anytime in the near future. Sorry.

[rygh]

Nice video.
I like the false bottom idea. I had not seen that before. Might add that to mine.
But I was surprised by one thing. You have vertical acrylic to block the light most of the way, but it looks like
there is a slot in the middle, where light can get to the bulkhead.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Couldn't run the stand-off all the way across or else the bulkhead would not fit without trimming it down. Very little light gets there anyways. The false bottom blocks it. There might be a smidgen of light that bounces off the diffuser and finds it's way down there, but pretty negligible. I probably could have laminated a small piece of 1/8" black, but it's also kind of useful to have a peek at the drain if you need to.

[fit]

This looks great Floyd. How do I purchase one of these?

Also, can you incorporate a fan into the lid for me? Do you have a cost for an L2 fully built with fan in the lid?

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'll put you on the waiting list for the next one. Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll shoot you an e-mail (hard to keep track of everyone on PMs)

I don't have the fan-in-lid one figured out quite yet. My idea is to take a project box from Radio Shack and embed the fan into it and then attach that to the lid somehow. I picked up the parts for it but haven't had the chance to really play with the idea at all. The issue I'm thinking about is protecting the fan from salt spray/creep somehow that is simple enough - something that doesn't require a flapper or something mechanical. I've got a few ideas...

[Floyd R Turbo]

PS go to this thread for current info

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?2010-Now-in-Production-L2-Waterfall-LED-2-Cube-day-Algae-Scrubber

[Ace25]

Old thread, but I have been getting quite a few PMs from people asking me how to retrofit the SM100 to LEDs. I had forgot about this scrubber (one in the first post) until today. How did this one work for you with the EShine LED fixtures compared to your newer/smaller scrubbers?

[Floyd R Turbo]

I would say the jury is still out, he has had a run of bad luck what with tank issues from moving everything over, fish and coral death, ich, etc. His feeding load went way down. he was alternating running one fixture for an hour, then the other, then off for 3 or something like that, and using diffusers, it took a long time to get going but then it started producing pretty well. Haven't had an update from him for a while but haven't been paying attention to many threads for the last month or so.

I would say that results are all over the board. I have people with screens that get very little growth, then I have people with a box full of algae in 7 days. Literally, a screen 2.5" thick, box full to the top with algae. I think so much depends on the tank.

I have had a few inquiries as well, but I would stick to 3W LEDs and put them about 2-3" on center with a few blues wired in parallel so they are 1/2 power. The trouble is finding a heat sink that fits the slot on the side, and doesn't risk falling out. The Maker's heat sink is too big, and heatsinkUSA ones are klunky w/sharp edges. I'm looking into picking a used one up so I can mess with it for that and other purposes.