Finally! 90g scrubber - 40sq inches

[mess7777]

Good day all,

I finally got it done and built my scrubber this weekend. 5x8 screen, with a 23w CFL on each side. I need to get a reflector for the 2nd light fixture, at the moment it is bulb only.

I did the "loop" method introduced by Morgan. The saran wrap was key, without it I had more of a fountain than a waterfall! Thank goodness for that or it would have been a total failure.

I set it up on Saturday night and already have algae starting to grow, so far looks like it might even be the green kind! We shall see though, I won't be dissapointed if something else grows since the guidelines indicate green can take a few weeks to take hold.

Current set up has an insump undersized skimmer which does virtually nothing(my opinion). Despite this skimmer, water changes, ample live rock, attempts with filter socks, siphoning the sand bed, sump bottom etc I cannot control nitrates and phosphates.

N - 40ppm or more. API test kits are not good once you get past 20ppm....orange and orange/red are difficult to distinguish. Could be 60ppm even.
P - .5 !!!! I have traditionally been using Rowaphos in afilter bag which kept it lower(around .25) but I stopped it so I can see the scrubber do it's thing. After all once it gets that high is there really any difference, I can hold out a couple weeks while the scrubber takes hold.


I am very excited to think that in a month or two(amybe less, being conservative) I might finally have N and P under control.

Unfortunately it is almost impossible to get a good picture due to my sump design, this was the best I can do.


http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/IMG-20120326-00094.jpg

[sklywag]

Growth already in two days? Wow! A good wat to start growth although you don't seem to need it is to clean the glass and or tukey baste the rock where algae is growing. It'll then get in the overflow and get stuck on the screen.
We, or should I say I? Like full tank shots.

[mess7777]

FTS - why not.

unfortunately, i am a euphyllia lover but they don't love me. As you see they are doing poorly, maybe because of Phosphates and Nitrates being high. Hopefully the scrubber will take care of it and they will come back in time!

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/IMG_1389.jpg

I do hope the scrubber makes me more proud of my tank, would love to be another success story. I have read a couple accounts of frogspawns doing poorly with ATS, hoping that it is the opposite effect for me!

[mess7777]

Another shot from this morning. I swear there is more growth just from today, maybe I will take a pic every morning before work and do a progression at week end. :)
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/IMG-20120326-00093.jpg

[SantaMonica]

I've not heard that about frogspawn... just softies.

[MorganAtlanta]

If you put some black plastic (like from a trash bag) over the top to cover down to just below the edge of the loop, you won't get growth in the loop. Growth in the loop would mess up your flow.

[mess7777]

If you put some black plastic (like from a trash bag) over the top to cover down to just below the edge of the loop, you won't get growth in the loop. Growth in the loop would mess up your flow.

Thanks, that is the plan. The bags I do have are green and extremely transparent, i will install a black light blocking sheet when I clean it this weekend. photos from this morn, quite a bit more than yesterday.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures-20120327-00096.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures-20120327-00097.jpg

[mess7777]

4 days in, starting to fill in nicely. First thoughts of a green screen are quickly turning to brown!! No big deal though, i have high nutrient levels so this was expected.

I will definitely need to block the light to the loop as algae is growing quickly in there which could disrupt the flow if it gets to be too much. Also the colors are not really that different between these two pics, they are taken with a blackberry so take it for what it's worth.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/3-2.jpg

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/3-1.jpg

[Floyd R Turbo]

in the tank I ran it, frogspawns and hammers clamped up. I took them out and put them in my non-filtered tank and they are doing better. dunno why they just hate it.

Nice "morgan" pipe

[mess7777]

in the tank I ran it, frogspawns and hammers clamped up. I took them out and put them in my non-filtered tank and they are doing better. dunno why they just hate it.

Nice "morgan" pipe

no offence floyd, but i hope that doesn't happen to mine! Maybe other people can chime in to say if they experienced anything similar with frogspawn, hammers, etc.

[Floyd R Turbo]

It could be due to the type of algae growing. They didn't seem to be affected until the end of the growth cycle, and the screen was growing less green growth as initially as it was vastly oversized for the amount fed since it was based on the original guidelines. Once I fix that issue and get the new one going, I will put them back in and see how they do.

[kerry]

My frogspawn is doing fine in my scrubber tank as well as my Exenia, colts, mushrooms, and toad stools. My SPS sure does do well to!

[mess7777]

thanks kerry, glad to hear it!

Time for todays progress pics, it seems to be growing well, the screen is basically covered now and I imagine over the next couple days it will start to thicken until Saturday when it's time for the 1st cleaning. I am trying to remember, do I clean just 1 side the 1st time or both?

I am trying to think of how i can get my lights to face more straight on to the screen, as it stands I have no way to attach them differently. I might rig up pieces of wood to screw into the side braces that I can clamp to......I will go with this for now and see how growth progresses. After all, if it isn't broken why fix it.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/4-1.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/4-2.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/4-3jpg.jpg

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yes if you can get the lamps perpendicular and closer that would be best. Is the light on the back side missing a reflector, or is that just like that so you could take the pic? You're losing 80% of the light without a reflector. Also (according to srusso) you can get the lights closer with the saran wrap over the entire screen. It's looking good but I would say that putting the lights closer and straight on would green it up fast.

[mess7777]

Yes if you can get the lamps perpendicular and closer that would be best. Is the light on the back side missing a reflector, or is that just like that so you could take the pic? You're losing 80% of the light without a reflector. Also (according to srusso) you can get the lights closer with the saran wrap over the entire screen. It's looking good but I would say that putting the lights closer and straight on would green it up fast.

Yes one is missing a reflector, that is on the to do this this weekend. Strangely enough, the growth seems thicker and greener on the side without the reflector.

They reflectorless one is about 4 inches away, the other is more like 5-6, best I can do without something else to attach to. It will be a challenge to find a way, but if there's a will......

[mess7777]

5 Days in -

More pics and even a video. My pod population has literally exploded in the last week, insanity the number of copepods....I am loving that! Please beware I am no videographer so this is not a pro video!

It is very obvious now that the reflector improves the amount of growth considerably, if there was ever any doubt....doubt no more. I am waiting to test my levels on SAturday just before cleaning to see if there is any improvement of nitrate in phosphate in just one week.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/5-1.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/5-2.jpg

http://youtu.be/_Z1Pr8dWurQ

[DennisC]

I wish I could get that amount of pods in my tank or sump. Looks very good to me.

Dennis

[mess7777]

Did my 1st cleaning today. The algae was a lot more brown, even towards oily slimy black than it looked while water was running over it. However, not a huge surprise seeing as I have such high nutrient levels. I tested prior to cleaning and Nitrates are between 20-40ppm, phosphates .25. This is slightly down from last week's test although it is close enough to be attributable to human error. I will be picking up a reflector and some new bulbs today to amp it amp to the next level. If the algae continues to be the ugly black stuff I will start cleaning more frequently, every 3 days until it starts growing more brown to green stuff.

I probably will stop posting every day now!

[SantaMonica]

Stronger light should fix it.

[mess7777]

Well it has only been one week, but I had to make a decision. With the limited space in my sump, it came down to a reflector or my skimmer. I went with the reflector. I am going to keep an eye on things over the week, but I have said many times before I don't think my skimmer did much of anything but bubble out some greenish water. It was not a powerful hardcore skimmer like many have. I have a 90g tank and this skimmer would probably be rated for a 90g MAX which means it really good for 40g or something like that. Anyway, my N and P have been high for the last 15 months(since getting it) with the skimmer, so I figure it can't be doing much to help me out anyway!

Wish me luck, and please tell me it's going to be alright, in spite of reading everything here it is still extremely scary for some reason.

[DennisC]

Same here mate. I have had my ATS running for 2 weeks. I have removed my skimmer and phos reactor after 1 week so hoping everything will be ok. My mesh hasn't been through the brown or oily stage, just straight into the green and will be doing my first 'clean' next week (week 3).

As you say 'very scary'after years of doing the accepted methods.

Dennis

[kerry]

Its a huge leap!!!! I have been doing is for over a year and still have a hard time feeding to the screen size but when I do it grows thick algae!!!!

[mess7777]

Well couple days of no skimmer and no ill effects. In fact, one of my crappy euphyllias looks better than it has in a couple weeks. I'll test nitrates tonight to see if they are creeping up. If so I will do a water change to help out while the scrubber takes hold. So far it is looking really good, screen is nearly covered in two days, looks more yellow/green than the brown stuff I had last week. We'll see in a couple more days I suppose.

I have a positive feeling about the whole thing though, first time I have felt that way about my tank in a long time.

[gmoney243]

Glad to hear things are comming along. Soon as your screen is green ur problems will go away fast. I had a friend who was in same situation gha and diatoms was everywhere and his skimmer was junk. So I got him to add a acrubber and since new sizing guidlines I was just in process of making my screen smaller so I had a big 6x8 piece he used that was alrdy developed and the algae was all gone and his tank looked great after just a week or so.

[mess7777]

Thanks gmoney. Screen is filling up quick, I wasn't able to do any water tests last night as family showed up unexpectedly. Maybe tonight. Growth still looking yellow/green and quickly going to brown as it gets thicker. This may be due to not having perfect light placement....I will have a better idea by the end of the week on that.

[mess7777]

Tested tonight, nitrates are not coming down after skimmer removal. My growth has turned from yellowish to brown slimeyness now. Should I clean sooner or still wait the full 7 days?

[gmoney243]

I would clean it everytime it gets thick brown slimy stuff. when u get green then u can go longer. Also it wont really export much as brown slime. When it gets green then it will work good then eventually u get light green hair algae which is the best.

[mess7777]

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/Apr-5-ATS.jpg

That's what I have since Saturday. The "ring" from light is not so apparant in person, but the blackberry phone is junk. It's pretty clear I need to find a way to get my lights lower and perpendicular to the screen. Not too sure how i am going to do that at this point, I am not the DIY type so these types of solutions don't come easy. I am going to be doing some water changes (10% or so) this week as well to help keep the nitrates down while the ATS is doing it's thing.

[kerry]

Dark growth means you need more light. Looking good so far, you can improve on this.

[mess7777]

Dark growth means you need more light. Looking good so far, you can improve on this.

Doesn't it also mean high nutrients? I have 40+ on nitrates and .25 on phosphates. My 40 in screen has 46 total watts of CFL, which should do the trick aside from the positioning being a little off.

I am more interested to know if I should clean sooner or wait until SAturday(1 week) based on this growth.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I would clean it, at least get all the black growth off.

[mess7777]

I would clean it, at least get all the black growth off.

Thanks Floyd, I will give it a rinse tonight, that darker slimy crap comes off really easy anyway.

[SantaMonica]

More nutrients is the same as needing more light.

[mess7777]

More nutrients is the same as needing more light.

I am not sure exactly what you mean by that. Do you mean that with more light the nutrients will get "soaked up" more quickly because it will get me green growth?....or do you mean that we can't tell if it is low light or too high of nutrients based on color alone?

Is it suggested i ramp up the lighting until the nutrients come down, or do I just go with the flow, clean more often until the algae lightens up in color?

[Ace25]

My take on Santa Monica's statement is: More Light = More energy for photosynthesis to happen, which means more nutrients will be taken in during photosynthesis.

[SantaMonica]

Do you mean that with more light the nutrients will get "soaked up" more quickly because it will get me green growth?

Yes.

[mess7777]

Thanks. I have the standard light socket with clamp to the side of my sump(29g standard tank). The 42w CFL are very large and expensive($10 each up here), does anyone have experience to know if the clamps are strong enough to hold with the extra weight?

[mess7777]

Well I went ahead with the cleaning a couple days early because of the slimy growth. I am going to give it another week with the lights that I have right now. Great news, underneath the slime there is green galore. Here is the pic of the cleaned screen, hopefully this is a catalyst to more long stringy green algae. :)

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/IMG-20120406-00107.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Green Galore :)

[mess7777]

tested nitrates and I am closer to 20 now, hopefully some day i will have a yellow test instead or orange or red!

algae definitely starting to lean towards brown again, but I am patient.

[gmoney243]

few more cleans and it will be all green and the brown will be gone. glad to see nitrates comming down and dont worry they will be gone soon now that they have started to come down ill bet youll be yellow in the next week.

[kerry]

Make sure you get familiar with dosing as you will need to due to no water changes.

[mess7777]

Make sure you get familiar with dosing as you will need to due to no water changes.

I have kalk ready to go for starters. However, no opportunity to use it yet since my Ca and Alk are always good....too much N and P for my corals to grow very well and use it!!

[mess7777]

Did some water testing again today. N at 20ppm +, P somewhere between .25-.5

Screen is certainly less black than the past 2 weeks, mostly browish with some yellow and even hints of green in places.

Hoping to see some reductions here soon! I removed the carbon since I am seeing a couple types of zoas detaching from rocks. Also noticing an increase in fern like algae on the rocks....perhaps leeching of phosphates bound up has already started?

[SantaMonica]

Maybe.

[kerry]

Mine were always good to until I stopped the water changes. Be sure to keep up weekly testing so you do not have a crash as the tank will use these up pretty quick.

[mess7777]

Mine were always good to until I stopped the water changes. Be sure to keep up weekly testing so you do not have a crash as the tank will use these up pretty quick.

Are you talking about zoas or parameters? Did you lose them all. For the crash thing, are you referring to Ca and Alk?

[kerry]

Oh, sorry, I meant the parameters. You will need to dose for Ca/Alk (with Kalk, and or calcium chloride to keep the Ca up if Kalk is not enough), Mag, and Str. I dose iodine when I think about which is only about a few times per month. (oops)
I didn't lose anything as i am always very observant of my tank and noticed my corals looking bad so I test and corrected. Once everything started to look good again we had an 8 hour power outage late in the winter and I lost a couple softies I had fragged so it was not really a loss.

[mess7777]

Oh, sorry, I meant the parameters. You will need to dose for Ca/Alk (with Kalk, and or calcium chloride to keep the Ca up if Kalk is not enough), Mag, and Str. I dose iodine when I think about which is only about a few times per month. (oops)
I didn't lose anything as i am always very observant of my tank and noticed my corals looking bad so I test and corrected. Once everything started to look good again we had an 8 hour power outage late in the winter and I lost a couple softies I had fragged so it was not really a loss.

Thanks. I wonder why I am conincidentally losing one type of zoas. Everything else seems business as usual and these zoas have been going strong for over a year now.

[mess7777]

Looks like my pods are hungry. Are these circles from pods eating away at the algae?

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/Apr13.jpg

Also, the growth looks so dark outside of the sump, it was more green/brown under the CFls. This weeks cleaning took more scrubbing to get it off, I guess that is a good sign that it's taking hold.

I have my ATS flowing into the refugium which contains some live rock. The rock directly below the screen(less than 2 inches) interestingly grew 100% green algae which I pulled off while taking the screen off for cleaning. I don't see any real problem with this but thought I would check with the experts.

Tested Nitrate on the API this morning and I am still around 20ppm. That said, it seems closer to 20 than 40 now, I didn't hesitate and look at it over and over from different angles to see if it has moved from orange to orangey red....if anyone has used this kit you probably know what I am talking about. :) My screen is 40 sq in, as I would like to feed equivalent of 3 cubes/day in the future. For now I feed only 1 while the ATS "Catches up" and gets all the existing nitrates and phosphates out of the tank. Is that a good plan?

2 weeks after the skimmer is gone I am convinced that it wasn't doing anything. Aside from one type of zoas, there seems to be no ill affect, and other corals actually look better.

With my pod explosion, I did some checking in the DT at night and found there are pods all over in there! Incredible numbers.

I placed an order for a red mandarin to help munch on them!

Happy Friday the 13th all.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Looking great! I know exactly what you're talking about with the API test kit. It helps to do exactly what you are doing, look from different angles. What I do is hold the tube against the card at a 45 degree angle from horizontal a foot or so under a light like the kitchen table, then stand it up on the card on the counter, and you can usually gauge the reading that way. If there is any hint of red, you're more towards 40 than 20. 20 is pretty much orange however you look at it.

[kerry]

Its making progress! Mine looks darker out of the lights as well. As long as you dont get algae growing on the rock then breaking off and rotting you should be ok. That API kit is tricky if its past 10PPM and worse when you get to 20PPM. Usually dark growth means you need more light or a smaller screen. I to also built mine old ones to meet future needs but found the screen staying like yours. So now I build them to what I feed and get great growth now.

[mess7777]

Its making progress! Mine looks darker out of the lights as well. As long as you dont get algae growing on the rock then breaking off and rotting you should be ok. That API kit is tricky if its past 10PPM and worse when you get to 20PPM. Usually dark growth means you need more light or a smaller screen. I to also built mine old ones to meet future needs but found the screen staying like yours. So now I build them to what I feed and get great growth now.

Good info, maybe I will try to feed more and see if it grows greener. I figured since my numbers are high I would feed less at first so it uses the N and P already in the water. Maybe that isn't the best logic and feedingmore will grow more algae and thus filter out more N and P. I also think my flow could benefit by being a little higher. I do notice an odor in the house since hooking up the ATS. Not unpleasant, more of a fresh ocean type smell, not the disguting sewer like by the ocean smell.

Current using a Maxijet 1200 on a 5" wide screen. However the one I am using is modded for use with a protein skimmer so doesn't have the standard impeller. I have a new return pump to hook up this weekend, so will be able to use my current return pump (maxijet 1200 without mod) on the ATS. I think the flow will be increased by a fair margin which could help for both growth and odor.

I am just waiting for the day when that test stays yellowish instead or orange!

[kerry]

Its nice after a few cleanings to always see yellow. When I do not feed up to the screen capacity I do not get the super thick growth. I know its scary to feed that much!! Just keep an eye on the nitrates, thats what I did when I started feeding heavier and it did go up just a bit but then it came down fast when the screen started to get good green growth.

[mess7777]

That is my worry as my nitrates and phosphates are already high. I wanted to get them under control before amping up the feedings.

[kerry]

I would improve the light then, maybe move closer but watch for burning, its yellow slimy algae. Even like it is there will be a reduction of nutrients in a couple more cleanings.

[mess7777]

Nitrates are still hanging around 20ppm. I tested Ca today and it's at 400ppm, so good to see the system is starting to use some again. Most of my corals seems to be looking decent. However, I do have 1 blue acro that someone has been surviving all along. Now it appears to be started to STN or maybe even RTN depending on the definition of that, lol. I can't say I ever expected it to survive anyway, it was more of a test piece....so I am not too worried about it.

Screen is of course filling up quickly, maybe a bit more yellow instead of brown this week, so progress is being made.

Whatever smells it was making are now gone, perhaps it was totally unrelated to the ATS. Keeping my fingers crossed for that yellow Nitrate test!

[mess7777]

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/April17.jpg

For some reason this picture is only showing the top half at the moment.....but last time it all showed up after a while. Regardless, although you can't see it well in this picture, I have a few green strands of algae this week.

I want to test my nitrates every 5 minutes, but it seems wasteful....so I will give it a couple more days before testing it out again.

I really feel it's on the upswing now.

[kerry]

Its filling in for you.

[mess7777]

Hi all, can you take a look at this picture and tell me what you think. It seems that the algae on the bottom has either let go, become lighter, or pods are eating it? I don't know why photobucket continues to not properly upload my pictures. If you look closely you can see the lighter color in the bottom 20% or so of the screen. I am not convinved it is pods, maybe my screen isn't rough enough? It seems like it shouldn't be falling off that easy. Or maybe it didn't fall off and just becomes lighter in color through the week making it more transparent?

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/Apr19.jpg

[Floyd R Turbo]

The color of your screen tells me that you need to be cleaning it a little more often than every 7 days. Looks like the roots are dying and letting go, are you finding clods of algae in the sump? Could also be that your screen is not rough enough.

[mess7777]

The color of your screen tells me that you need to be cleaning it a little more often than every 7 days. Looks like the roots are dying and letting go, are you finding clods of algae in the sump? Could also be that your screen is not rough enough.

I still have algae kind of pond scum that forms on surfaces in the sump. This happened before the ATS as well. So I can't say definitively that it let go. This will be my fourth week now, the algae is lighter in color but still not green. I think I'll give it an extra rough up on the next cleaning. I must have very high nutrients since I do have the correct 1 watt/inch of screen....even slightly more. I would switch to 42w CFL but they bulbs are expensive ($10 each), and I am worried the weight would be too heavy for the clamps leading to much larger problems than dark algae!

What about something like this? Has anyone tried them?
http://www.sunslighting.com/High-Power-12-Watt-PAR38-Dimmable-660nm-RED-and-45-p/1325rb.htm

[mess7777]

Grrr.nitrates are back up above 20ppm. I am not there yet by any means.

The screen had gone half white by the time I got home from work, either the pods or lack of roughness caused it to all essentially disintegrate. I cleaned it and roughed up the screen a lot more.

The good news is that the algae was much tougher to get off than previous weeks. It took some really good scrubbing whereas in previous weeks it came off with a strong stream of water. I am going to have to do a water change this week to keep the levels in check. Phosphates have probably skyrocketed as well, API test is too inaccurate to really tell.

[Alaska_Phil]

Hang in there. It took me 4 weeks to start getting good thick growth on my screen, and another 4 weeks after that before I started seeing significant improvements in my tank.

Phil

[Ace25]

From the looks of it, I would guess it was a roughness issue with the screen. It doesn't look like the typical "pod circles" you see. While 20 nitrates may seem frustrating to you and you want to get it lower, it is by no means a concern for the fish or corals in your tank. You said you fixed the roughness and it is getting more green so I am sure as it matures a little more everything will do as expected and you will hit 0 nitrates in a matter of weeks.

[mess7777]

From the looks of it, I would guess it was a roughness issue with the screen. It doesn't look like the typical "pod circles" you see. While 20 nitrates may seem frustrating to you and you want to get it lower, it is by no means a concern for the fish or corals in your tank. You said you fixed the roughness and it is getting more green so I am sure as it matures a little more everything will do as expected and you will hit 0 nitrates in a matter of weeks.

Thanks Ace. We'll see what happens, I only did the extra roughing up yesterday. It looks a lot rougher now. The nitrates going up above 20ppm is a concern for me as I know phosphates are going up at the same time. Due to only having API phosphate test, can't tell with any accuracy other than yes I have more than 0 and less than .1. Outside of that I can't be sure. I have several corals which have been unhappy and this won't be helping to make them happier. I will do a water change this weekend.

Due to the roughing up of the screen I am pretty much starting over with a completely white screen. We'll see how it goes. If it doesn't catch on quickly I will need to put some phosphate removal media in the sump for a few days to get it down.

[Floyd R Turbo]

People freak out over a little phosphate or nitrate, but you have to remember that corals need N and P actually, so a temporary spike in them will really not do very much long-term harm. Reducing them quickly with reactive media can do damage. I have talked to people that dropped a ton of GFO on their tank and dropped their P down to nothing in a short time and crashed their system. My take is just let the scrubber do its job, which is gradual and natural. your corals will be fine.

[mess7777]

thanks Floyd, nothing good happens fast right!

I just am so tired of that orange nitrate test and though I was on my way. I am ready to see some of my euphyllia corals come back to life after months of wasting away. Also have an accro that was somehow doing well through the last several months , but now started STN which sucks. I am going to try the superglue trick as many report it has stopped it. Failing that, I guess I will have to frag it.

[mess7777]

Finally got around to switching out my return pump. As I mentioned earlier I was able to switch to a different Maxi-jet 1200 for the ATS.

HUGE difference! I wasn't getting anywhere close to the same amount of flow as I do now. I am interested to see how things go with the increased flow on the ATS and on the main DT. I probably doubled up on both, one will help better deliver nutrients to the ATS, and the other will promote the type of clingy algae I want.

I also did a 5% water change and blasted my rocks a bit to release some decaying crap which could be leading to my higher N.

[mess7777]

Decided to do a quick clean this morning as it was developing some of the rea dark slime.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/April25.jpg

Things are looking good since roughing the screen and increasing flow. My tank has started to use some alkalinity which is a good sign, this hasn't happened for a while. Maybe one of these weeks I'll see some real green thick growth.

[mess7777]

Freakin nitrates still going up, well over 20ppm again. I though the increased flow and roughing up the screen would help, but it appears I was incorrect.

I have all but lost a few corals, zoas dissapearing, open brain coral suddenly falling apart, couple euphyllia nearly dead(deader than before), and even GSP that aren't opening up. Basically there are two possibilities I can think of. The skimmer was helping a lot, or the scrubber is pulling something out of the water that these corals were enjoying......but not Nitrates or Phosphates since these are virtually unchanged since starting approx 5 weeks ago. Unfortunately, I cannot put the skimmer back online and still run the ATS due to space, so I am stuck now.

I'm very frustrated, nothing goes right for me in this hobby.

[Doompie]

Dark growth usually means more light is needed.

High nitrates turn your screen dark. But I was wondering while reading trough this topic, did you replace your skimmer with a scrubber (on an existing tank) without the transition period?

[mess7777]

Dark growth usually means more light is needed.

High nitrates turn your screen dark. But I was wondering while reading trough this topic, did you replace your skimmer with a scrubber (on an existing tank) without the transition period?

I made it about 3 weeks with ATS and scrubber. I had one side running without a reflector. Once I put the reflector on I don't have room for sump and skimmer. My skimmer is a piece of crap though, it is surprising if not running it caused this problem. It pulled out only a couple tablespoons of light green liquid every few days. However, it is the only real explanation.

[Floyd R Turbo]

There could be many other factors contributing to this. More info is needed.

how long has tank been up and running?
What is Alk, Cal, Mag, temp?
How do you adjust these levels?
How often do you adjust them, and how much do you adjust them?
Have you tested these parameters on a frequent enough basis to establish long-term (3 months) stable levels?
Have you tested these (particularly Alk) frequently since installing the scrubber?

Long term stability is by far and above the key to a successful system. If you are constantly meddling with things, this is where you start to get into trouble.

[mess7777]

There could be many other factors contributing to this. More info is needed.

how long has tank been up and running?
What is Alk, Cal, Mag, temp?
How do you adjust these levels?
How often do you adjust them, and how much do you adjust them?
Have you tested these parameters on a frequent enough basis to establish long-term (3 months) stable levels?
Have you tested these (particularly Alk) frequently since installing the scrubber?

Long term stability is by far and above the key to a successful system. If you are constantly meddling with things, this is where you start to get into trouble.

Tank is up since March 2011. The brain that died this week has been there since April.

Alk - recently dropped to 7 from 10, now back to 8. This is a decent swing, but is it really enough to destroy a coral in a week
Ca - never varied between 400-440ppm
Mag - 1200-1300, don't test often
I try to keep Alk around 8, Ca 440ppm and MG high 1200s. Mostly water changes to replenish, but have also used seachem buffer for Alk and Seachem complete for Ca to keep levels where I like.

Maybe this is a case of getting worse before it gets better, but holy crap it is not fun to watch.

All corals doing poorly are near or on the sandbed(except zoas), so I am going to give it a nice vaccuum on my water change this evening to see if that helps.

It's so hard not to react too hard to these problems when things start dying, but I also know overreacting could kill even more. I just wish my N and P would start to get lower so I could definitely say it is not that. These two things have plagued me since inception.

[Floyd R Turbo]

unless you have an undergravel filter, you should never heavily vaccuum the sand bed. This disturbs the bacteria in the sandbed and can cause all kinds of problems. I just read this article http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/Water_Changes.htm look at the 'myths' and 'tips' on the left of the article.

your rapid drop in Alk is not desired, and is probably the scrubber sucking that up after CO2 is depleted. I would suggest daily testing of Alk and daily minor adjustments as necessary to your dosing regimen. Write down all test results, the time of day, and the amount you dosed afterwards, then test again 30 minutes later to see how much that increased the level. Also don't adjust Alk to fast and monitor pH to make sure you don't jump it more than 0.2pH in a 24hr period (I will extend my Alk dose over a few hours as pH will immediately jump after dosing, then slowly drop back down allowing me to dose a little more). Once you establish the screen with good green growth, then nail down your dosing regimen and technique. Water changes are not going to be enough to keep Alk stable if you have a 10 to 7 drop like you experienced.

This fluctuation in Alk will likely stabilize over time as the scrubber matures.

I have found that even a seemingly harmless swing can cause problems. I had a colt coral that was doing great, getting huge, then I switched to Kalk in the top off water and was having a hard time maintaining Alk at anything but 6.7 and the colt completely melted down. I switched back to BRS Alk in the ATO and got it back to 8.5-ish and then dialed in the dosing regimen and the remnants of it are coming back strong.

If you system was long-term stable, and everthing was 'used to that', then a swing of one parameter can indeed cause problems. Whether that was the root cause of your loss (which I am sorry for) or not is hard to say, but it seems like a strong candidate.

[mess7777]

Thanks Floyd, you may be right. Just as good of an explanation is turning off the skimmer unfortunately. It's just unknown at this point so I have no choice but to carry on and keep testing faithfully. As for vacuuming the sandbed, I mean more picking up the loose debris, old crab shells, snail poop, stuff like that which isn't fully cleaned by my crew. The bottom of the tank has less flow than the top, so there is more chance of accumulation of nasties(at least that is my current working theory). I can't really beef up the flow because my euphyllias don't appreciate huge flow.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Check Ace's comment on this thread

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1887-Ca-Mg-and-Alk-ok

I think your 10 to 7 swing is the cause

[mess7777]

did a 10 gallon (10%) water change last night. Got the nitrates down below 20, screen is yellow to brown. I'll keep cleaning it as soon as I see it can't handle more sliminess. The brain coral is pretty much dead. I moved it to a different location in case placement was a problem...but pretty sure it is too late. If it lasts the weekend I will be lucky.

Alk stead today at 7 after the water change. I intend to start using Kalk sometime this week due to that drop in Alk and seeing my Ca go from 440 to 400. This should also help to bring my pH up a bit from the 7.8-8 range(possibly below sometimes) which has plagued me for a long time too.

Although I can see that some of my corals have grown I look forward to the day where I actually see the new white growth that I see in so many photos. I'll get there......just gotta be patient.

[mess7777]

I am at the point where I should probably clean again. however this time I see a few pokes of green coming through. I am going to let it play out a couple days and see what happens.

[robotech]

just a quick thought on sandbeds and mess7777,s prob, 3 inches or less only have aerobic bacteria which just turns nitrite into nitrate, 3 inches and more then has both aerobic and anaerobic which turns it from nitrite to nitrate to nitrogen gas. if you have less than 3 inches and never clean your sand then your going to get a build up of nitrate there which sounds like what mess7777 has going on since he said all his dying corals were on the bed. this stuff about never cleaning the sand bed is for deep sand beds, granted its not a good idea to do the whole thing at one time but doing a quarter of it each time in shallow beds will take out nitrates and stir new growth of aerobic bacteria. to many people are misled about sand beds, shallow and clean- deep and dont.

[mess7777]

just a quick thought on sandbeds and mess7777,s prob, 3 inches or less only have aerobic bacteria which just turns nitrite into nitrate, 3 inches and more then has both aerobic and anaerobic which turns it from nitrite to nitrate to nitrogen gas. if you have less than 3 inches and never clean your sand then your going to get a build up of nitrate there which sounds like what mess7777 has going on since he said all his dying corals were on the bed. this stuff about never cleaning the sand bed is for deep sand beds, granted its not a good idea to do the whole thing at one time but doing a quarter of it each time in shallow beds will take out nitrates and stir new growth of aerobic bacteria. to many people are misled about sand beds, shallow and clean- deep and dont.

very interesting, I never thought about it. i do have a SSB, less than 3". Come to think of it my tank looks the best after a water change when I have actually siphoned some of the sand bed up trying to clean out detrius. I am going to research this a little more, but you might be on to something which both makes sense for dying corals and nitrates that just won't go away.

[robotech]

even if you do have a deep sand bed it can still only do so much, so if the prob is detritus causing nitrates in your bed from being over loaded but you strictly never clean it then your gonna be in for a lot of water changes and always putting a band aid over the prob rather than getting to the root of it cleaning it and solving it.

[mess7777]

I have some strands of green this morning, I guess leaving it was a good plan! Hoping to see more and more!

[Garf]

very interesting, I never thought about it. i do have a SSB, less than 3". Come to think of it my tank looks the best after a water change when I have actually siphoned some of the sand bed up trying to clean out detrius. I am going to research this a little more, but you might be on to something which both makes sense for dying corals and nitrates that just won't go away.

The problem with cleaning your sand bed is that you never end up with these 2237 which eat detritus

Or this 2238 which transforms nitrate into nitrogen

This sand bed is 5 years old and never cleaned.
In my opinion the grain size is critical. In picture two, this denitrification is taking place at a depth of less than 2 inches.

[mess7777]

The problem with cleaning your sand bed is that you never end up with these 2237 which eat detritus

Or this 2238 which transforms nitrate into nitrogen

This sand bed is 5 years old and never cleaned.
In my opinion the grain size is critical. In picture two, this denitrification is taking place at a depth of less than 2 inches.

My sand bed is not nearly that deep, it's just a covering on the bottom, when I say less than 3" we are talking more like 1-2". I can't even see the sides of the sandbed as it is not deeper than the black frame around the bottom.

[robotech]

The problem with cleaning your sand bed is that you never end up with these 2237 which eat detritus

Or this 2238 which transforms nitrate into nitrogen

This sand bed is 5 years old and never cleaned.
In my opinion the grain size is critical. In picture two, this denitrification is taking place at a depth of less than 2 inches.

i woud say its nots happening there its just the nitrogen gas has rissen to that point working its way out to float to the top and in the air.

[Garf]

i woud say its nots happening there its just the nitrogen gas has rissen to that point working its way out to float to the top and in the air.

It has no deep bed to rise up from in this section of the bed 2239

[mess7777]

Alright! Back on topic!!!

I decided to not do the early clean last week to see what would happen. it seems that was a good plan as I am starting to get some green growth. There also seems to be some red in there too, which I haven't seen before. It's about 10 days growth right now, need to test parameters to see if it's starting to help.

I think my screen is starting to mature and I according to others' builds it looks like I am near the point where results start to show!

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/May7-2.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/ATS/May7.jpg

[mess7777]

Decided to do a cleaning today, just because it's been nearly 2 weeks.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb464/mess7777/May9.jpg

I have some actual green on there now. As always it looks a heck of a lot darker than it did in the sump. I had by far the largest amount of algae harvested yet. Under the sump lights there was actual a lot of red.

After the cleaning the screen was a nice emerald green that I have seen others refer to. I think I am close to getting results, although my friggin nitrates are still testing 20. Another 20% water change this week should help.

I also cleaned about the vinyl tubing that feeds the ATS as it was getting some algae build-up as well. I will definitely need to add this into my routine as the flow increased substantially after clearing out the gunk. If I can find black 1/2 inch tubing I will switch to it to avoid this problem.

THE VERY MOMENT that I see a nitrate test not come up orange I am going to post a picture of my soiled pants as this will be a breakthrough moment for my poor tank. (I wont really do this, don't worry).

[kerry]

Thats good growth!! Its getting better every time.

[Floyd R Turbo]

If you let that go 2 weeks, you want to do an interim cleaning where you don't scrape hard, just rinse it in FW to kill pods and rinse away any dark slime (rub with fingertips) that has built up, or rubbery stuff, because that blocks lights to the lower layers and will kill the roots. You want to leave the green hair on the screen. you could even just swipe a credit card lightly across it and rinse, it would take about 20 seconds total.

[mess7777]

After the last cleaning, my screen has gone back to dark brown/nearly black covering in a couple of days.

The one difference is that the flow has increased substantially after cleaning the tubing from the pump to the ATS.

Another strange occurrence.....my exquisite wrasse went MIA for the last couple days, but the screen was brown before that. Maybe the ATS is telling me something else is going on.

I just can't buck these friggin nitrates, they were well over 20ppm again this weekend. 10% water change again, I will just keep on doing that. My zoas are still mad, and the couple euphyllias continue to hate life. I am going to resort to daily target feedings for my LPS in the hopes of saving them.

I think it's time to bit the bullet and buy a $10 150watt light to see if it makes a difference or not. I need to get something working before it's all gone.

I really don't know where all my nitrates are coming from. I don't feed ridiculously (max 2 cubes a day) in a 90 g tank, I clean detrius during water changes. The ATS is always getting covered......my chaeto and caulpera both grow well and I harvest regularily. I must have something in my tank that is just spitting out nitrates....it's really weird.

[kotlec]

I clean detrius during water changes.

I have attempted to clean sand bed once for detritius removal and got N and P spike next few days. Can it be reason for you as well ? It is very delicate occupation as I understood. Lesson learned and now I just make a little storm in my tank on occasion and let the filter pad do the rest.
Filter pad is removed immediately just after storm is over and water clears up in order not to let my catch to decay further.

Just sharing my experience

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yeah I don't touch the sand bed anymore. I have an engineer goby that just moves it back to where he wants it so I leave it alone. Plus I read that unless you run a UGF you should not touch the substrate, or at least not deep gravel vac ever, just skim the surface if you think you need to otherwise leave it be.

[mess7777]

I don't actually disturb the sandbed, I just get the siphon close enough that any crud sitting gets sucked up. The sand pretty much stays in place, the water doesn't cloud or anything. I don't think this is spiking my nutrients....but I suppose it is possible that it's lurking so close to the surface that any disturbance releases more. I have a sand sifting star, maybe it's constant movement in the sand is causing it to steadily release bound N from the sand? Problem is I like how it keeps the sand clean!

[kotlec]

I have a sand sifting star, maybe it's constant movement in the sand is causing it to steadily release bound N from the sand?

I would not believe that.

[mess7777]

Well cleaned off the dark brown/black gunk again this week. I have some nice GHA growing on the glass on one of the sump baffles and on a couple rocks in the sump. I pulled it off and stuck it to my screen. Maybe it will help to encourage this type of algae.

Also, I pulled a bunch of dark red spongy algae off the sump rocks(is that cyano?).

Fingers crossed that it starts working before I lose ALL my corals!

[mess7777]

Well as my euphyllia have continued to die off.....the nitrates still hang around 20ppm. I have tried leaving the algae to grow thicker. It's gotten really red on one side and starting to see some cyano. I'll have to clean tonight. I picked up a 150watt CF light to try on one side to see if it makes a difference compared to the 100 watt. At $10 each I didn't want to get both at the same time. If it gets more and greener algae to grow I will buy a 2nd one.

I thought after 2 months I would be closer to reucing nitrates than this......but hey I am staying the course.....more to come.

[Garf]

I would take a step back from the scrubber for the moment. 99% of reefers ( reducing all the time ), successfully keep corals without a scrubber. I suggest you have a system parameter problem with your water. Ie temp, salinity and all the other basics like ammonia. I would re- check and find the parameter problem. Although scrubbers can sort a lot of water quality issues, the basics must be maintained and these will also affect algal growth. I guess you think that nitrate is killing your corals, it's probably not.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yes I would really to a full battery of tests. pH, Salinity, Ammonia, Nitrite (not like that one matters, but let's be thorough), Nitrate, Alk, Cal, Mag, Phosphate, (with a Hanna checker if you can get access to one) and make sure they are not expired kits, and make sure you are performing the test right. Review your top-off regimen, alkalinity / calcium / magnesium dosing. Eliminate all other possibilities.

A long-time very successful reefer in Wisconsin gave me great advice once, and that is to comprehend and follow the basics of reefkeeping, and then keep things stable for 3 months. At that point, you will see a growth explosion. Stability is the primary key to reefkeeping.

[mess7777]

Well I decided for my mental sanity to remove the corals that were nearly dead to get them outta my sight. I have to admit it feels a lot better looking at the tank without those (mostly) skeleton corals staring back at me.

I also decided to take a hands off approach and just did the bare minimum of feeding and replenishing evaporated water.

I didn't even clean the scrubber for about 3 weeks, I wasn't seeing any die off so why bother.

Anyway, forward to now, and it seemed my corals were a little perkier and happier, so I though I'd do a phosphate test. Well, for the first time since owning the tank, the API test kit came up the '0' color. I think I am finally getting somewhere. The rocks are a little fuzzy, which is a good sign that the phosphates are leeching back out, or maybe already have. I didn't clean my front glass for almost a month and really, it is not that bad. I have all kinds of new pods crawling around in the DT now that I never did before....so maybe I can try a mandarin again which is great news!

Hopefully over the next few weeks the nitrates will come down to, I started to feed a little more aggressively, building up to the scrubber capacity of 4 cubes/day.

It actually feels like I am getting the tank back and I might be able to actually enjoy it again.

Another note of interest is that the sand sifting star(which I never should have gotten) finally died and the tank seems to be happy it did. Perhaps it was keeping the sandbed so devoid of life it couldn't do its job as well.

Good times.

[Garf]

Goodbye starfish - I think your right. Think you'd better getting some more pics up soon. Glad your feeling more confident about your system.

[kerry]

Glad its coming around for you. The sand sifting stars are something to avoid in my opinion unless you have a 250G plus tank.

[djmatteo]

I just read through this thread and I see a lot of me in a lot of the stuff thats happened in your tank both with mysteriously dying corals and my original algae scrubber just not doing well. Oddly enough I also had to use seran wrap on my scrubber which slowed down my flow and prevented it from working properly once the GHA algae just grew on the top inch of the screen.

Just wondering if you have an update?

[mess7777]

Not much to update here. I am still fighting off nitrates, others have posted that once the phosphates are gone that this can happen. I believe due to the bad shape of my system, that equilibrium is taking extra long to find it's place. Interestingly, my zoas continue to do poorly, with less and less all the time. This is unfortunate as i really like them!

I did a screen cleaning and took it a little far, this also can cause a nutrient spike. The algae is the filter so for the first few days after the cleaning there isn't as much algae pulling out nutrients.

It is needed to say that I also still have chaeto and caulpera in my sump which both continue to grow albeit very slow since my phosphates have reduced.

I can also say that the zooplankton in my tank has never looked better, there is life everywhere, and this is great!

Although it is far from perfect, my tank is the best it has been in a long while.

[SantaMonica]

Good that the tank is doing well. However if your sump macros are still alive, your scrubber is very weak.

[mess7777]

SantaMonica,

I do believe I am underpowered, unfortunately my bad sump design doesn't allow me to get a real nice scrubber going. The reflectors take up a lot of space and I can't get them positioned exactly right. Perhaps LED and a design like Floyds is my answer to give some extra space, but I am not prepared to spend the cash just yet.

[djmatteo]

You mention space, but this scrubber was build on old sizing guidelines was it not? You could probably get away with using a much smaller scrubber now and i would guess have good results.

Im still a bit oversized on my build as well, im about 40sq inches with 50 watts of light ... im still working the kinks out, did my first cleaning on a new screen after 2 weeks it was considerably green!

[Garf]

Dont think size guidelines should apply while there's plenty nitrates and phosphates around, surely.

[djmatteo]

Yeah im just a newbie in the world of scrubbers, but logic would also say if your screen was working optimally for your feeding it would take the N and P out once its working optimally with a thick covering of GHA. If you arent getting the GHA it isnt really doing anything for you anyway is my understanding.

[SantaMonica]

Dont think size guidelines should apply while there's plenty nitrates and phosphates around

Yes they totally should, because any N and P will reduce down to a steady state dictated by the feeding amount.

[Garf]

Yes they totally should, because any N and P will reduce down to a steady state dictated by the feeding amount.

Hmmmm - surely the feeding guidelines only apply when the "steady state" threshold has been reached. Let's face it, if you were locked into a supermarket you wouldn't starve to death until the food was gone or perished, even though new food was not being introduced.

[mess7777]

My scrubber is sized using the new guidelines. I am good for 4 cubes...I am interested to feed a lot to my tank and would prefer to have more fish if I can get my parameters in check.

I am currently feeding equivalent of 2 cubes/day but still having nitrate issues. My flow over a 5 inch screen is a Maxijet 1200. I am getting near 200gph, so really I should be good for a 10 inch screen. One light I can get positioned quite well, but the other side is difficult due to a center brace and lack of adequate height in the sump area. Interestingly, the side which the light is placed better doesn't grow any better. My algae tends to grow more like a sheet of nori instead of the hairy green stuff I see on here.

One thing I am wondering about lately is the turnover of water from the main tank. I have about 300 gph passing through the return pump. Is it possible that this is too low and therefore not delivering the nutrients from the main tank to the sump. On the same topic, if circulation in the main tank is low, could that also lead to nutrients settling and not being delivered to the sump. This however doesn't make sense as I do my water testing generally from the top part of the water column which is also the most turbulent.

I continue to be pissed at my nitrates and wish I had the amount of money I have spent to have a do-over and get it right the first time! Good old hindsight is 20/20.

One thing that is reassuring to all scrubber folks....I haven't used a skimmer since the inception of the scrubber with little to no ill effect. In fact, I have a working theory that some of the corals actually suffered due to the rocks leeching back crap they had taken in over time. Things like zoas which are attached to old rocks have not fared well.

[djmatteo]

Your scrubber never really started to work properly tho right? So you in my opinion have way to big of a screen, its therfor not growing, and therefor not working effectively to reduce N and P. If your scrubber was working effectively based on what you were feeding its my thought once you get a good GHA growth on it not only will i t keep up with your current feeding regime, it should also start to play catch up on the buildup already excisting in your tank. Its like you are running a V8 engine on 4 cylinders... yeah you are working but not at full potential.

Im nobody to judge, ill be the first to admit I am having issues with my own scrubber and am steep on the bottom end of the learning curve.. but I didnt install a scrubber to correct my system, only to improve it... hopefully I can get a system working for me!

[mess7777]

It's been a long time since I posted, but I continue to still get brown/yellow growth that I clean every 2-3 weeks. I have seeded with HA from other places in my sump but it just doesn't take. My nitrates are FINALLY below 20, and I am finally sure of that per my API test kit. Anything near 20 or over and good luck to anyone trying to tell the colors apart. I am still doing water changes because I think they are necessary to pull sediment and crap out, I find my scrubber is maintaining but not improving.

It's likely the lighting not being close enough, but without a complete redesign there isn't much I can do. I had hoped to use the 43 watt (150 equiv) light but my reflectors don't even light up when I use that bulb. Must not be compatible.

Things are definitely getting better though, as levels have slowly gone down in the last months and some corals that were receding or dying look better now. Cheato used to grow in my sump and now each time I harvest the ball gets a little smaller. If I get really crazy this winter I might rebuild the stand to be taller and have more room to maneuver. This would open up endless possibilities. Convincing my wife is another story altogether!!!

Another strange thing is that when I first installed the ATS my pod life was insane in the sump. Since then it's way down, I don't see those tiny white specks all over the place any more. Mostly just amphipods which may be thriving by feeding on the little ones!

[SantaMonica]

Removing the chaeto will speed things up. Also, reducing screen size will help.

[mess7777]

I don't want to reduce the screen, because I ultimately want to feed a lot more to have more fish and feed corals aggresively. However, with the higher nutrients, I cannot get myself to feed that much as I am afraid of them going even higher and being back where I started. It's a slippery slope. I have a 4 cube setup, because that's what I want to be able to feed daily.

[Garf]

If your getting 20ppm on an API test kit, the actual amount of nitrate may well be a lot less.

[mess7777]

If your getting 20ppm on an API test kit, the actual amount of nitrate may well be a lot less.

:) - you may be right, these are not the most accurate!

They beat the living crap our the API Phosphate though, this is just a waste of money!

[mess7777]

Did my nitrate test again on Sunday night. Best results yet, nitrates are way low. Before was between 10-20 in color, now I am definitely less orangey and down to 5-10. Hoping for bright yellow soon.

I don't know if I ever mentioned it before but I am also running Phosban to keep phosphate down. I did this as my corals were suffering from hgih phosphates and couldn't wait. Once nitrates are gone and phosphates show none then I'll think about experimenting with taking it out. For now though, it stays!

I also ran carbon this week, which was obviously needed as my water cleared up significantly in the 2 days i ran it, to the point I might have to move some corals around.

[mess7777]

well well, 1st time ever I have 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates on API. Guess it's time for that hanna checker now that it will be of value!

Things are looking better than ever, and for the first time I actually need to pay attention to calcium levels as the tank is capable of using some.

[SantaMonica]

Let's hear it for no N or P in Canada :)

[Garf]

Mess7777 - Have you tried it without phos media yet?

[mess7777]

no and I don't think I will just let. I got a Hanna checker and my real reading is .14, so still some work to do. It is more accurate than the crappy API I have been using.

[mess7777]

water change, scrubber clean, phosphate media changed monday. phosphates still at .15 tonight. I'll check again in a couple days to see where it goes. Still not there yet.

I know it is my setup/lighting on my scrubber, but I am getting a lot of green algae starting to grow on the glass in my sump and on the rocks as well. I pulled this out with the cleaning, likely a cup or more total. I don't mind to do that, just surprising to find it growing off the screen in lower lighting, lower flow areas. It was fun to grab the amphipods 1 at a time off the algae clumps and throw them up top as the fish gobbled them. Free fresh live food!

[iiluisii]

no offence floyd, but i hope that doesn't happen to mine! Maybe other people can chime in to say if they experienced anything similar with frogspawn, hammers, etc.

i dont have that problem with my L2

[mess7777]

I moved my phosphate remover from before the scrubber section of my sump to the 'after'. I tested the phosphates again this week and they are moving in the right direction. Down to .09 now, I am happy about that! Couple corals are showing signs of faster growth, this I like too!

[mess7777]

Couple months later and i would have to say my scrubber is finally "up to speed". My phosphates got down to 0 and since then have never gone above .07. I haven't changed my GFO in well over 3 months, and don't think i will have to again. I have been holding back a bit on feeding all the way until my nutrient levels were under control.

I went on vacation to Italy for two weeks and had a friend feed the tank. I gave him directions to feed roughly double what I have been feeding and cleaned the screen just before leaving. I got around to checking P today, and still reads 0.00 oh my Hanna! The beauty of the scrubber is that it is ready to grow more if you feed more. I had been scared to test it out but I now have my proof. My mandarin will surely be happy about this!

On the topic of PODs, as we all know there are insane amounts produced when using a scrubber. However, I don't find this leads to more in my display tank, they are just in the sump. I still believe I need to get some pod condos or something similar going to get them up to the main tank for the mandarin to chew on.

I have also been reading up on the skimmer thing, as I am going on 1 year without a skimmer. At some point along the way I lost PE on a lot of SPS and have not been able to get it back. There have been many changes along the way, so during the summer months where there is more things to do outside I am going to leave things more on autopilot and make only small changes 1 at a time to see what happens. I also added a doser recently to stabilize my levels of Alk and Ca as usage has gone up beyond what water changes are providing.

It is fun to actually have a nice looking tank with fat fish(except the mandarin) and most corals flourishing.

[SantaMonica]

Nice results.

The pod thing is one of the benefits I'm looking forward to with the floating surface version; the pods just flow right into the tank. Also some yellow tangs have been seen sticking their noses into the drain holes to get some food.