View Full Version : Jnad's UAS test
Hello!
SM: There is no "insert image" button viseble above the text box to me?
Here is my test scrubber as a participant in this test group.
Sceen size total: 11x5,5 inches
Screen size effektive: 10x4 inches
Light: CFL 18W PL-L 2700K
Air stone: 4 inches
Thing i have to change: Have to cover up the screen back side to block the light getting trough to the aquarium, fish and corals have now 24 hours of daylight :)
Question: The screen is probably way to big, but i figured i could use height of the aquarium glass. Is this a problem should i make the screen smaller for this testing to be right???
Pictures:
Hello!
Here is some pictures of my 8-days of growth, i think my growth maybe look similar to Floyd`s screen and i suspect it is beacuse too mutch light.
The white spots is beacuse of the snails, you can se one of them on the picture.
I have now done a change to the light, i have replaced the 18W cfl with one of my 3x3W 660nm leds (that i dont think really is 3 w leds). I did change to the led beacuse that i am going on a trip from wednesday to sunday and i did not trust the electrical system i had done with the cfl. Maybe the leds give me a nice suprise whith lot of growth on sunday. :)
I am going on a trip to Denmark to fly model sailplanes on the slopes of the west coast, got to have several hobbies :)
Here is the pictures:
Hello!
I came back from Denmark exiting to see what happening with my screen while i had been gone:
The screen have now less algae than beafore, almost no algae at all left. I have 5 big snails + 1 eremit crab eating algae from the screen all day long :(.
I have the same light setup as Marksfish's with 1 led unit, 2,5 inches away from the screen 18 hours on 6 hours of.
I think the snails is a big problem, i will make a box to put the screen inside, will have it ready beafore the weekend i hope.
Jnad
Hello!
I have now made a box for my screen to keep the snails away from the screen, the snails totally wiped the screen empty of algaes.
This box is running very nice with no bubbles ecaping to the display. The box have some openings in the bottom where water i sucked inn, when the water is sucked in and rising with the bubbles there also have to be water goung out trough the same opening in the bottom, just like an air stone driven co-current skimmer so i hope there will be sufficient sirculation of water.
When it comes to lightning i use one unit of 3x3W led, i am not sure if i should still continue to use the leds or go back to my cfl bulb, any opinions?
The box dimensions is:
Height: 31 cm
With: 11 cm
Depth: 3,2 cm
Pictures:
kerry
04-29-2012, 12:34 PM
Looking good Sir.
SantaMonica
04-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Yes it does. You'll be seeing much more of this kind of thing.
Thanks for positive feedback, hope there bee some green growth soon :)
Hello!
Still not very mutch luck with green growt in my UAS. I have brown growt in the top of the screen, but almost no growth at all right in front of the led lights. This maybe is beacuse the leds is burning the screen , but i have problem beliving this is the cause beacuse the leds is 2 inches away from screen.
So i have decided to do some changes too my test UAS:
First i will change the lightning to 11w cfl bulb that i know work, just to be sure that not the light is the problem.
I am also rebuilding the scrubber box to make it better:
The new box is a slim version that only is 1,5 cm deep, so it will take up very little space in the aquarium, the other dimensions of the new box will be the same as the current one. This is possible beacuse i changing the air stone with a thin air pipe i bought in my lokal shop. This pipe is only 8 mm in diameter, and it is making a one layer of "carpet" bubbles that i hope is perfect for my slim one sided UAS.
The slim design scrubber box will also force the bubbles to toutch the screen. This new box will also have an improvement when it comes to flow, the new box will have water inlet in the bottom as the old box, but the new slim version will have an outlet on the top, i hope this will improve the flow inside the scrubber as i also belive weak flow in my current scrubber also could be a reason for little growth.
The new slim version will be ready today or tomorrow and i will then post pictures .
Jnad
Hello!
Here are some pictures of my new slim line scrubber box.
I have tested the box in my tank and it looks like it is running perfectly. It looks like it have good water flow from bottom and out the combined air bubble trap and outflow on top of the box. You can se the air bubble trap and outflow box mounted on the scrubber on two of the pictures. The outflow box is now glued on to the scrubber box so this "inside tank" scrubber is a one piece scrubber. The scrubber is easy to clean and it is easy to take out the 8mm air pipe.
The screen is not attached to the air pipe, but it is just free standing inside the scrubber so it is easy to just lift out for cleaning.
The intension with the 2mm pvc glass is to stop air bubbles beeing released to the display and making no algaes growing on the aquarium glass. When the scrubber is placed inside the tank on the aquarium glass the 2mm pvc glass is stopping aquarium water to reatch and sirculate on the aquarium glass, so i hope this will make no algae growing on the tank glass, but only on the inside of scrubber on the 2mm pvc glass. And on the screen of course :)
The scrubber box have room for maximum 4x10 inches effective screen size. Ps! The little piece of screen on the pictures is only to show where the screen is placed inside the scrubber.
This slim line box will be mounted in the tank tomorrow, i think it will only depend on the right lightning to get growth now, i hope :)
Floyd R Turbo
05-06-2012, 08:37 PM
Slick!
Tanks!
The scrubber is now running in the tank.
The flow and bubbles trough the scrubber looks good, and there is no air bubbles escaping to the display.
When i changed to the new box there was more algae (brown) then first thought, and there was a green layer on the aquarium glass.
Post some new pictures in a couple of days
Jnad
Floyd R Turbo
05-07-2012, 03:16 PM
This design looks really good because the thin chamber will force the bubbles through the algal mat. This is in contrast to mine, where the bubbles easily bypass the screen when the mat grows out.
Tanks Floyd R Turbo.
I think your on top scrubber design is great, and your growth looking good i see :)
Yes the slim design of my scrubber will force the bubbles in to the algae mat. I can see now that the bubbles actually pressing the screen up against the back wall in the scrubber. Dont wish to brag, but the scrubber seems too work very well, so now i think it is only up to get the right lightning to Get some growth.
Jnad
Hello!
Want to give you a tip you can try if you are struggeling to find the right air stone: Try to use a regular flexible pvc tube with a lot of holes in.
I have tried several different airstones and in my last slim design scrubber box i have used an 8mm pvc pipe with holes. All of them have produced bubbles, but they all have had one one problem "they where noisy". When pushing the amount of air flow the bubbles make a popping sound when they relises from the air stone or pipe, and with my setup the bubbles noise became louder than the airpump.
Today i took an regular flexible pvc tube ( i used 8mm pvc tube beacuse of the slim scrubber box) and used an pin to make a lot of holes in the tube, and then i exchanged the current pvc pipe with this "diy" pvc bubble tube.
The result was surprisingly good, the noise was gone and even the bubbles were better.
Some pros:
Low cost, now need to clean when clogged, just make a new one.
You can make it the size you want to match your set up.
It is flexible
Make no noise
By the way, i have now got growth on my screen, the growth have accelerated after making the slim scrubber box that forces the bubbles to toutch the screen and have mutch better flow then my previous box.
I will post some pictures of screen and scrubber box later tonight or tomorrow.
Jnad
Hello!
Here are som update pictures of growth on screen and scrubber.
The scrubber look to work good when it comes to water hydraulic, if you look closely at the picture of the front of the scrubber you can see that water flow is pulling air bubbles out of the scrubber. I turned up the amount of air just a little bit to show water coming out of the outlet, i usually run it with a little bit less air power.
I have been thinking of change the leds back to cfl bulb, but beacuse the growth seem to be better now i give the leds some more time.
The growth seem to be better after i changed to the slim line box that forcing the bubbles into the screen, the better flow is also an advantage i think.
The ugly light fixture is only temporary for the UAS test :)
SantaMonica
05-11-2012, 03:07 PM
I think it will grow well.
I hope so.
I dont now if it is positive or negative but the new "diy" air tube i am using make smaller air bubbles then my previous air stone. I can now see that there is small air bubbles attached in the algae in the screen. Beacuse of the small bubble size the same amount of air give less "viseble" turbulente in the algae, that maybe is a negative factor? I had more turbulens with bigger bubbles, maybe i should make some bigger holes in the flexible air tube?
Any thoughts?
SantaMonica
05-12-2012, 10:53 AM
More turbulence is probably better, but until a lot of people try both it won't be for certain.
I will make a flexible bubble tube with bigger holes to morrow just to try.
Funny, when i do a significant increase in the air flow (more than i normally using) with the current flexible pvc tube that make theese small bubbles, my scrubber starts to make foam just like a protein skimmer :) . Hell, i could just make an skimmer cup that fit on the top of the scrubber and wola, i would have an UAS and a protein skimmer in one unit :) . But i dont want too use a skimmer though :)
Might be a perfect filter unit for those who wants use both scrubber and skimmer :)
Hello!
Did make a new flexible pvc tube with bigger holes in today, have tested it and it made bigger bubbles as it was intended. I used a 1mm drill to make the holes, you might think 1mm holes is to large, but beacuse of the pvc materiale in the tube the holes is less than 1mm.
After testing this new tube i replaced it with the tube that made very small bubbles again, this beacuse i dont think someone yet have tested an UAS with very small air bubbles. I decided to see how it goes.
I now have more algae than in the previous picture I posted, and i think i can see some green spots.
I post some pictures in a couple of days.
Jnad
SantaMonica
05-13-2012, 10:16 PM
Hoping for green... :)
Yes i hoping for green, but have just checked the screen, and there is not any big improvement in growth, just a little.
Cant really figure out what to do: It looks like the screen is divided in two when it comes to growt. The screen area in front of the light is becoming slimy with a light brown color. The top area on the screen where there is no light, only daylight from a window is the area that has most growth. But this growth is dark brown, there is some change in this area though, there is some few treads of long green algae appearing in this area of the screen. It is somewhat strange, the area with no light seem to have most growth??
If you look at the previous pictures you can see the the screen is divided in two, dark brown on top, less brown and more slimy where the light is.
The light is on 12 hours.
Jnad
SantaMonica
05-16-2012, 01:16 PM
Try 9 hours, or less wattage.
Hello!
Have run the lights 9 hours on fore some days now, did take out the screen today just to have a look, and i actually see some few strains of green.
I have a couple of questions:
1. I have today bought a plate of light diffusor and placed this in front of the leds. I think it is the same type of diffusor others have used on this forum. Should i continue with 9 hours light periode or should i increase the hours when using this diffuser??
2. Should i clean away the dark and yellow algae on the screen or is it best just to continue letting it grow??
I have also changed the air tube/pipe to one with bigger holes that give bigger bubbles, this make it possible to increase the amount of air a lot, the water flow also increases with the air amount. I do think i have used too small bubbles, the bubbles was almost as small as in a protein skimmer.
Have now bigger bubbles, more air and more water flow trough the scrubber.
Jnad
SantaMonica
05-21-2012, 12:46 PM
I'd clean the screen off.
Try different hours.
Screen cleaned and light set to 13 hours on beacuse of the diffuser mounted today :)
Hello!
Finnaly it seem to be a progress in growth, this is 5 days of growth after i changed to bigger air bubbles and put in a diffuser in front of the light. The light still looks like it is too strong, i wil consider to cut the hours to 9 hours on.
Mostly green on top and bottom of screen, and some tint of green color in the middle:
kerry
05-27-2012, 05:02 PM
That does look better!! I am wanting to put a diffuser on mine as well.
That does look better!! I am wanting to put a diffuser on mine as well.
Yes, i think the diffuser was the main factor for better growth. When the screen beacome "i hope" compleatly green i will try the tube that making small bubbles again, just to see if bubble size matter. The tube with small bubbles did also run silent, bigger bubbles make some noise.
jnad
Hello!
I have tried to make a couple of videos to describe my scrubber, sorry for the bad English on the video.
Here is the slim line in tank scrubber:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHysFWUo5EU
Here is cleaning of the screen:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2i7VHpl3HPI
Here is cleaning the box:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvbVyUHGEjs
Jnad
SantaMonica
06-07-2012, 10:43 AM
Still a little yellow... maybe less hours.
Yes, i wil reduce the light hours back to 9 hours on today. That is from 13 down to 9.
Have been thinking if this type of scrubber differs from f example the SM100 type scrubber when it comes to need for light hours. The screen actually never have total darkness like the screen in a SM100 type of scrubber. The screen have light from the leds during the night, and when the leds is off the screen actually have daylight from room an windows.
Any opinions?
Don't see any harm as long as the light is not much stronger than a full moon. There is a limit where the photosynthetic "dark cycles" are triggered, but I guess there's only one way to find out ! Keep us informed.
Hmm, i think the screen is growing slow, the aquarium is looking great though :)
The screen is growing green at the longest distance from the light, just the same symptoms as with my waterfall scrubber that used the same led light. I had green hair alga in the bottom of the scrubber box in the waterfall scrubber.
Well, the light hours is now only 9 hours on, i wait and see.
Jnad
Hello!
Here is another update video of 10 days of growth.
The growth is now longer and more hairy green color.
The lightning hours is now only 9 hours on and i have also reduced the watts to the half effeckt, i am now using only one led unit.
Dont think my screen like lightning at all :) maybe just daylight would have been enough :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siPjfPKJITQ&feature=plcp
Jnad
SantaMonica
06-13-2012, 01:15 PM
One 3-watt?
No, it is one of these units, without lenses. It is labeled 3x3W, but i dont think the real effeckt is more than max 3x1W, i tried to measure the effect and i think i remember the total effect was less than 3W.
The distance from the led unit to the top of the screen where there is most growth is about 5 inches, and i am also using a light diffuser in front of the led???
Cant really figure out this, i am using mutch less light than for example Floyds test scrubber and i still seem to have too mutch light?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-3-x-3W-Red-Grow-LED-650-660nm-w-Driver-Heat-Sink-12VDC-Input-Aquarium-/220866293590?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336ca82f56#ht_1564wt_1204
Are you using the driver that they sell with these or have you bodged your own. They reckon output is almost 3 watts ( I've also looked at these ) if you think there rubbish I won't bother !
SantaMonica
06-13-2012, 03:02 PM
That's the problem... the LEDs are too close together.
Yes, you might just have nailed my problem, shi..... This probably have been the problem all the time, also with my waterfall scrubber
Sorry jnad, I meant to say 3 watts each. So you wouldn't recommend these then !
No, i dont think theese led units is ideal for scrubber use.
Sorry jnad, I meant to say 3 watts each. So you wouldn't recommend these then !
I have two of theese led units, maybe i should try to solder the two of thees led configurations in parallell to one single driver.That would be half the effeckt on both led configurations, dont know if the driver can handle it but maybe it is worth a try. What do you think, maybe this will not solve my problem compleatly, but maybe it wil help some?
That's the problem... the LEDs are too close together.
I think the problem is too intense lighting on a virgin screen. The light is preventing proper growth from taking hold on the screen. Burning the life out of it. The energy is just too much. Lower lighting will give algae, although weak, a chance to get a foothold. This must then be ramped up to get any filtering capability. Can't you go back to cfl until your screen takes off ? Or use a pre cured screen from a waterfall.
kerry
06-14-2012, 06:32 AM
Get a light diffuser. I got these for my LED's that where burning and its really made a huge difference, I was even able to turn the hours up too.
Floyd R Turbo
06-14-2012, 07:42 AM
Yeah I have started including diffusers on my L2 after my experiences with my UAS
Hello!
Beacuse of the problems with the close led configuration i have made an exprimental change :)
Need suggestions for light hours with this exprimental led setup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Le1J7cdExE&feature=plcp
Jnad
Floyd R Turbo
06-14-2012, 12:08 PM
I would think that you would get a lot of spill light into the tank with the LEDs placed where they are. Not much you can do about that, unless you extend a shield between the fixture and the side of the tank. But that would look pretty weird having a box extend 7-8" off the side of the tank to the light fixture.
I would think that if you placed a diffuser on the side of the tank and put the LEDs about 2" or 3" from it, that would work. You would still have the light spill problem, but a box extending only 3-4 inches from the tank to the fixture would look a little nicer.
The leds just turned on, it is not mutch light spill to the display, but as you say it certenly dont look nice :)
It is only for experiment
Jnad
I would think that you would get a lot of spill light into the tank with the LEDs placed where they are. Not much you can do about that, unless you extend a shield between the fixture and the side of the tank. But that would look pretty weird having a box extend 7-8" off the side of the tank to the light fixture.
I would think that if you placed a diffuser on the side of the tank and put the LEDs about 2" or 3" from it, that would work. You would still have the light spill problem, but a box extending only 3-4 inches from the tank to the fixture would look a little nicer.
Hello!
Here is some update.
The exprimental led setup was only used for one day, and it was not nice as Floyd said:) . Therfore i took it down and just to see what would happen i let the scrubber run without light. It has been with no light now for 5 days and i am a little suprised that the growth actually seem to have increased in those few days. The only light is daylight from room and windows.
I dont think there is an good permanent solution too run a scrubber like this with no artificial light, but this result made me think: Maybe scrubber setups like this that get natural daylight and not is enclosed in a dark box have somewhat other requierments when it comes to the need of artificial light? Maybe my scrubber actually have been exposed to too mutch light with artificial light during the night and daylight during the day? Maybe the recommended light just is good for scrubbers that keep the screen in darkness during the day?
This is just some thoughts and i hope for some comments on this.
Another thing is that i have made a mistake with my screen when it comes to size, the screen is way too big, the screen is 11x4 inches. This could very well be the reason for slow progress with my test scrubber, i am going to make the screen smaller today.
Here is a video
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jAazvK_cmZY
Jnad
kotlec
06-21-2012, 02:21 PM
cant open that tube link.
Kerry just noticed that bubbles are not required, now you find that light is not necessary. I wait when somebody find out that screen is rudiment.
:D Im not serious today . ugh
cant open that tube link.
Kerry just noticed that bubbles are not required, now you find that light is not necessary. I wait when somebody find out that screen is rudiment.
:D Im not serious today . ugh
Almost everyone who has algae in their display tanks fulfills the above criteria (a bit of light obviously)!!
Hello!
Kotlec: The link work for me?
Any one else having problems with the link?
If so maybe SM can fix it?
jnad
ruddybop
06-22-2012, 03:25 AM
That link has an M. in the address and that's for mobile units... Here is the standard computer youtube link.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jAazvK_cmZY
Tanks for help with the link Ruddybop.
The screen is now cut down too 4x5 inches that fit my daily feeding. The screen size was actually more than doubble the needed size with my amount of feeding, big newbee mistake :(
The scrubber will be running just with daylight for 7 more days, i am going on a trip to France on sunday and coming back on thursday the 28. Then i will post something new i have been testing, and of course it have something to do with algae scrubbers :) i hope it not is just another newbee mistake :)
Jnad
SantaMonica
06-22-2012, 01:33 PM
Yes they need bubbles, and yes they need light. But they need dark too.
Hello!
Yes, dark period is probably also important, maybe as important as the light period is. My current scrubber two main faults is probably no dark period but 24 hours with light and more than twise the screen size needed :(
Jnad
Yes they need bubbles, and yes they need light. But they need dark too.
Hello!
Here is a photo of screen size after decresed:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/jnado/?action=view¤t=956aa635.jpg&mediafilter=noflash
SantaMonica
06-23-2012, 09:35 AM
Looking better...
Looking better...
Thanks.
Hope it grows better now, i am a little embarrased that i didn't realise that screen size was problem earlier. Beginners mistake i guess :)
Hello!
Here is a uppdate video of my UAS test scrubber. I have run the scrubber just with daylight for 14 days, and it actually grows. Artificial light is of course the best and i will start using the led light again, i just did run it with no artificial light just curious to see how it would grow.
If my new idea for a DAS works good i will rebuild this slim inside tank scrubber to DAS. I am testing a DAS prototype now.
Here is the video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=x7TWCXPhKPI
Jnad
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