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robotech
04-24-2012, 12:21 PM
hello all, just joined, here are some pics, the tank is a 55g with a 10g sump. running a seaclone 100 thats filtered back onto the scrubber. the scrubber surface is 15w x 12deep made from a sheet of polyethylene ruffed up with an actuall flow of probbly 150 to 200gph. the light is 23 watt cfl. its been going for a year now and so far all i can get out of it is keeping the trates down to 30. i get no where near the growth i see on many others, please offer up any sugestions you may have. also i tryed to get a knitting screen but they dont seem to know what that is around here.2136213721382139

kerry
04-24-2012, 12:31 PM
The proper screen make a big difference, is this a one sided lit screen? One sided has proved to be not as powerful as the screen lit on both sides.

robotech
04-24-2012, 01:18 PM
The proper screen make a big difference, is this a one sided lit screen? One sided has proved to be not as powerful as the screen lit on both sides.

yes its one sided but its 2 times the size required also.

kerry
04-24-2012, 01:45 PM
Most of the problem with the horizontal is the light. I have a 2.75x6.75 screen lit with a 23w CFL and its flow is taken from a HOB filter spill way. Here is a link to my horizontal on my 10G: http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1725-Pics-of-a-Horizontal-Scrubber . List below is my latest pic of the horizontal. Once you get this growth they are very efficient. Also let it grow at least two weeks, sometimes three to get it growing green.

Floyd R Turbo
04-24-2012, 02:02 PM
you can order plastic canvas online or find it at any fabric store near the yarn. They will know what it is. I have even found it at Wal-Mart

robotech
04-24-2012, 02:21 PM
[QUOTE=kerry;19493]Most of the problem with the horizontal is the light. I have a 2.75x6.75 screen lit with a 23w CFL and its flow is taken from a HOB filter spill way.

i used to have 2 rigged like that coming off of the 2 330hobs but still never achieved any growth close to what your getting. debating if the system may need iron to get better growth.

robotech
04-24-2012, 02:24 PM
you can order plastic canvas online or find it at any fabric store near the yarn. They will know what it is. I have even found it at Wal-Mart

called walmart and knitting stores here and none of them had a clue what i was talking about.

SantaMonica
04-24-2012, 02:37 PM
Bigger is worse, not better.

kerry
04-24-2012, 03:21 PM
Bigger is worse, not better.
I agree. I dont think it needs to be 4 times bigger then the two sided water fall. I do know the closer I got to the two sided size rules the better it got. I think a screen 1.5 to 1.75 the size of the water fall is a better way to start but, its still not as good as the water fall type. I do know that I could not get the 4x rule to work. I also know that when I started cleaning a minimum of 2 weeks and got the end down in the water it really took off for me.

Floyd R Turbo
04-24-2012, 03:35 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with lighting. If you think about it, the 4x rule is matched by the 1.5x lighting rule, but it really should be 2x lighting so you have the same coverage.

kerry
04-24-2012, 03:53 PM
It does, I should have mentioned that the 23 watter is more then advertised, its 2x verses the 1.5.

Ace25
04-24-2012, 04:01 PM
Bigger is worse, not better.
Can you explain that in a little more detail so others understand why? I agree with you, just like to see you post why that is.

robotech
04-24-2012, 04:09 PM
Bigger is worse, not better.

so what size one sided screen at 45 degree,s would you recommend santa?
also where did the page go that used to tell all about the scrubber basics, seems it used to be called- every thing you need to know about algae scrubbers by you.

SantaMonica
04-24-2012, 05:39 PM
Because the growth does have enough nutrients to get thick; so it can't grow up and into the light and flow.

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?7-Algae-Scrubber-Talk

kerry
04-24-2012, 06:02 PM
It is best to have the screen sized to the feeding and nutrients being put into the tank so it will grow green, lush, thick algae. If you are getting thin brown algae your screen is probable to big and might be lacking light too. I learned more about algae scrubbers by making, changing, and modifying my horizontal unit then anything else. I guess it was the hands on trial and error. It took forever but I was determined to get growth like the water fall units did.

robotech
04-24-2012, 09:30 PM
i weighed the food i put in today, comes out to half a gram once or twice a day. gonna work on calculating the size tomorrow.

joelespinoza
04-25-2012, 06:09 AM
12"x18" sheet, should be enough for anything and then some, $4.29 shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Darice-7-Mesh-7-Count-SUPER-SOFT-Plastic-Canvas-12-X-18-CLEAR-/230779869276?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bb8d585c

4"x4" 10 pack, probably the way to go if you want to make 1-2 small screens fit to the new sizing, $4.51 Shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PACK-Darice-CLEAR-PLASTIC-CANVAS-4-SQUARE-7-Mesh-7-Count-4-INCH-SQUARE-/230780730827?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bb9a7dcb

Just type in "7 count plastic" on ebay, you will gets tons of them.

robotech
04-25-2012, 07:46 AM
thanks joel, have to look into those, searched there before but must have been putting in the wrong words.

55g. mixed reef
30g. mixed reef
10g. reef only

robotech
04-25-2012, 09:21 AM
well i down sized from 16x12 to 8x12, should double the flow over the surface, same screen so its pre-seeded, pump is 265gph so it may be a little low on flow but half the screen is under water, nothin to do but wait and see how it goes.

55g. mixed reef
30g. mixed reef
10g. reef only

mess7777
04-25-2012, 02:18 PM
Because the growth does have enough nutrients to get thick; so it can't grow up and into the light and flow.

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?7-Algae-Scrubber-Talk

What about the fact that his nitrates are still at 30ppm, aren't those nutrients there to use? Shouldn't his scrubber perform very well until those are used up and then revert to less growth?

kerry
04-25-2012, 03:19 PM
His light is the biggest problem (he needs like 100 watts), I have 23 watts on a 2.75x6.75 screen to get the results I do. His screen is way to big, he needs about 3 more bulbs or a lot smaller screen, say to the tune of 75% to 90% smaller at minimum to get the expected results I do with a 23 watt bulb. I would say to cut the screen at least in half and see what happens then keep trimming it until you get the best results.

robotech
04-25-2012, 03:37 PM
I would say to cut the screen at least in half and see what happens then keep trimming it until you get the best results.[/QUOTE]

hey kerry, i posted on the last page that i did cut it down to half from 16x12 to 8x12. should be more flow and nutrients per inch of screen. anyway i thought i would put a couple more pics, the last whole tank pic doesnt show much.21532154

kerry
04-25-2012, 09:47 PM
You can try that but, you are going to be limited by your light that is only 23 watts. I am at just under 20 square inches of screen facing the same light and struggled to get it to go. I think your limiting factor will be your light. It would be great to be proved wrong though. I still think your screen is at least twice the size it should be. I have probably done more horizontal testing then anyone else I have seen on this site. Not to say I am the expert but I have a little knowledge about them and would like to save you from the pitfalls I went through. IMO If you want a large screen with that 23 watt bulb you are going to have to cut the screen down and put it close enough so ALL the light spills onto the screen only. Not so close it burns it though.
I hope someone else can make a horizontal grow like mine has. I was pretty proud when I got mine growing huge 3D algae like the SM100. There are more techniques out there that I have not thought of or tried so maybe you can come up with a better solution then I did. I don't mean to discourage a horizontal build I just know its very hard to do, and when you do its still not as good as the water fall type at eliminating nutrients with a lot less growth. It is fun though and its great learning about algae and light.

Your best option is to use two spot/flood CFL's and make a water fall with a smaller screen. I think you have room for that but, the problem there is getting a pump and the plumbing to it.

Let us know how and what you do other and I are always interested in what others are trying and are always willing to help. Be on the look out as I plan to make this scrubber a LED powered unit in a couple months or so.

robotech
04-26-2012, 09:59 AM
i was tryin to go by the new guidelines, said use a 12x16 for horizontal, mine is at 45 degees, its between horizontal and vertical. i put in 1 gram a day of pellet. how much food do you put in using the 2.75 x 6.75 screen?

kerry
04-27-2012, 09:03 AM
I do about a cube a day some times two.

kerry
04-27-2012, 09:04 AM
These horizontals are hard to dial in and even harder when the light is not enough.

robotech
04-27-2012, 10:22 AM
ok, sounds like you feed a little more than i do so i probbly need to cut one the same size as yours. how often do you clean yours and do you take it all off or do half at a time or?

robotech
04-28-2012, 02:34 PM
well goin skimmerless, looks as tho the sump had been a nitrate sink, only 2 inches of gravel with low flow. all the detritus is just settleing in there, i stir it up once a week but there,s so little flow most of it seems to be just re settleing. so i took out the skimmer and using the pump for flow in the sump. reason for using gravel in there is because its supose to be better for pod breeding.

Garf
04-28-2012, 02:53 PM
Gravel makes life very difficult for the creatures that eat your system detritus. 1 to 4 inches of substrate has anecdotally caused lots of problems. Use a deep sand bed (read up on this because there are risk factors) or go bare bottom.

robotech
04-28-2012, 04:33 PM
there is no clean up crew other than 5 starfish, banded coral shrimp and a few pods. all snails and crabs i put in there just die. i can and did this week again, go thru and completely stir up my whole sand bed and sump bed without any ill effects to the corals. they dont even close up or even show any effects from it. dont want to jinxs myself but it doesnt seem to matter what i do with this tank it doesnt crash or bother it. all my flow goes from the back of the tank to the front and down which slowly push the sand to the back where the large maroon doesnt like it and spends half her time fanning it back to the front. use no phoshate remover and have no measurable phates. only prob with the tank is trates at 30 which i am hoping to get the scrubber dialed in to take care of for me. shouldnt need any clean up crew or aneorobic bacteria with good flow, mechanical filtering and a scrubber that works. also i go in with a fountain pump and blow all rock and coral off so the flow can take it into the filter. probbly just my opinion but seems aneorobic bacteria are more for people to lazy to spend 30 minutes week stirring detritus out of the sand and rocks so the mechanical filters can pick it up to be rinsed out. may be why i have 30 for trates but once the scrubber is going properly that should be solved.

Garf
04-28-2012, 04:44 PM
You shouldn't be stirring the stuff out of your sand bed.

Garf
04-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Mechanical filters - ???

robotech
04-28-2012, 06:54 PM
You shouldn't be stirring the stuff out of your sand bed.

from what i here, read and what not, 3 inches or less clean it or 3 inches and more dont. mine is 3 in the front down to 1/2 inch in the back, kinda leaves me borderline. the crazy maroon just plain dont want any sand in the back half, always fanning it to the front glass.

robotech
05-01-2012, 06:16 PM
completely redone the sump and scrubber, i believe this is going to be a great set up thats easy to service. light is freshwater pink bulb, scrubber surface is 2- 2 1/2 x 9 inch pieces of ruffed up polypropelene in series, this way i can alternate between cleanings. should be 45 square inches of surface for growth. here,s a couple pics, let me know if you have any ideas or see a problem with it.
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