I am going to give it a try...

[kbaker]

I am new here. I contacted Santa Monica with some questions and he was nice enough to answer me even though with further reading here, I came across the answers. Thanks, Santa Monica.
I was not sure which area to post on so I went with this one because the other one said "successful" and my set up has not proven successful, yet.

My first set of pictures is of the filter I am replacing with a Algae Scrubber. As you can see, I have plenty of algae and the filter grew more than enough. Next set would be of the Algae Scrubber. I would not call it completely my design. I just followed mostly what Santa Monica suggested. When I sized my pump for the Algae Scrubber, I was too lazy to go out and look at the pump to find out GPH. I guestimated what pump I had. Well, needless to say...the pump is undersized for the job, so I ordered another one.

My situation is different then what I have read here. The Algae Scrubber will be outside, but it will be used for a turtle trough. Anyone with turtles will tell you, they are very dirty and it's hard to stay up on the water with many turtles and being in the sun. This should be a real test for a Algae Scrubber. Another thing that I will have to work out is the debri from outside...helicopters, seed hulls, leaves and anything else blown into the trough. I automatically added cross cuts, but will it be enough?

I tried to add to the design as much accessability as I could. I used threaded connectors where I wanted a secure fit and slip fits where I need adjustment or access. I used two screens because I like the option to clean one at a time. The posts have slip fits so I can pull the whole bar off if I want with the clamps. Or I can take the bar off without the clamps- the clamps loosen quickly with wing nuts. I would like to have found plastic clamps for the bar. One more thing I would like to have added was plastic clamps for the screens. I don't like replacing the tie straps every week and I could not find small enough reusable tie straps. I am on the look out for reusable plastic clamps that fit around the bar and connect through the screen. I am sure everyone here would like some of those!!

Thanks for looking-
Kevin

Looks like I can't add more than three pictures/attachements. I will have to work around.
[attachment=2:8im2ybm7]DSC08720.JPG[/attachment:8im2ybm7]
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[kbaker]

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[kbaker]

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[kbaker]

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[kbaker]

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[kbaker]

[attachment=1:crbngwrc]DSC08738.JPG[/attachment:crbngwrc]
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That's all the pictures for now. I will try not to wait too long for updated pictures.
Thanks-
Kevin

[worley]

Welcome to the site!
Looks good!
How wide are each of the screens, and what's the rated flow on the pump?
How long has it been up and running for now? (I presume the photos were taken at the time you put it together)

[kbaker]

I have been buying things slowly for a week or so and put it all together today. All the pictures are from today, too.
I am not sure what answer you are looking for with the screen...the over all width of the screen is 10 1/2" by 13 1/2" long and it goes into a 9 1/2" slot in the bar...that should cover it. The pump is rated at 780 GPH. I was guessing that it was rated a little over 1000 GPH when I was thinking of what I would do. I ordered a 1330 GPH pump to replace it.

I tried to make everything adjustable. The screens are into the water only about 1/4" and when the water evaporates, the screens won't hit the water. I can swap out the pipes on the posts. They come in 1" increaments.

I think things came out pretty well for my first time at this. A couple of things that did not work out:
1) I bought bushings with flats on them that slipped on to the ends of the bar so I could have better control of cutting the slots. I wanted the slots in the bar to be inline so both screens laid in the same position. Well, the bar was too long to sit right on the table saw, so I could not use the bushings.
2) After using the table saw, the slots did not come out so perfect like a thought they would. I plunged the blade in and moved the bar to get the length of the slot. Because the blade did not run a full pass in the slot, the ends of the slots were wider than the middle. And the ends were not as close to an 1/8" as I thought they would. So the dremel did most of the cutting for the slots.

Another thing...I've used algaecide and barley in the past to control algae in the turtle trough. It took a lot of water changes and many weeks to clear out the green. After about a month or so, the green would be back. I am really hoping to spend less money & time with the water and have better water quality for the turtles.

[SantaMonica]

Very nice re-build. It will work great. Others have built solar scrubbers, which cleared out their koi ponds completely.

On your first build, I cannot see how the lighting is supposed to get in, since it has a lid. Guess it doesn't matter now. Your new setup is much better, even with reduced flow. Trick: Put a mirror reflector (or foil or mylar) behind the screen so the sun will hit the screen from both side. If you can bend the reflector into a curve, you can even concentrate the sun on that side.

Trick2: Use double screens. Be sure to sand/roughen all sides of all screens (really rough, so it has a jagged surface.)

[kbaker]

My original filter was not an algae scubber. It had a spray bar that went through filter pads and then through bio material. You might have gotten confused when I said it grew plenty of algae. I was not suppose to.

The trough is sitting West/East so the sun rises on one side of the screen and sets on the other side. I mounted the screen on a little angle. That was a last minute thing because the bar mounted on the trough best that way. I can alway turn the trough to make it perfect, but I will wait and see if I need to.

I thought about doubling and tripling the screen, but decided to wait on that. I am not sure how I want to do it or need to, yet. Right now I believe the slot is perfect for one screen thickness and I am not sure if I would open the slot or just thicken the screen below the bar.

The roughing up the screen is a detail that I kind of missed and did not place it high on the priority list. I can always roughen it up at a cleaning. The screen is kind of soft and I would have to becareful not to totally destroy the screen.

One more thing...I figured out what kind of clip I had in mind for attaching the screen on the bar. It's the kind that attaches the shower curtain to the rod. There are a few different kinds, but I know they make what I am thinking of. I will have to go shopping and find out if I can get the correct size. I will post a picture if I find the right ones.

[SantaMonica]

You actually do want to destroy the screen with rough sandpaper. Best case would be to get it so rough you can't see through it, and so it would cut your skin. This will hold the most algae, and was the most important criteria in my search for a proper screen material.

[kbaker]

I will have to look through the site again on best screen types and roughing them up. I was thinking this was the best type of screen and I wouldn't have to rough it up.

I found some examples online of the type of hooks/clamps I was thinking of that would replace the tie straps for holding the screen on the bar.

[attachment=2:321q91tn]Curtain Ring 01.jpg[/attachment:321q91tn]
[attachment=1:321q91tn]Curtain Ring 02.jpg[/attachment:321q91tn]
[attachment=0:321q91tn]Curtain Ring 03.jpg[/attachment:321q91tn]

[SantaMonica]

Those are a good idea.

[kbaker]

Update:

1) I recieved the new pump, but I had to send it back because it was damaged. I will have to wait another week to increase the flow. :cry:
2) I lowered the bar by replacing the post pipes. Now the screen should still be in the water even after some water has evaporated.
3) I replace the tie straps with curtain rings. :mrgreen: This seems to be working well. :D
4) I changed the left screen. I took two screens and scuffed both sides with a wire brush. I sandwiched the old screen with the two new ones and tied them together with tie straps. This design seems to quickly trap a lot of debri/floating algae between the screens. Also, this design requires the increase flow more.
5) I did not bother with pictures of the screens before rinsing them because they had very little of anything on them.

[attachment=0:2jctljph]DSC08791.JPG[/attachment:2jctljph]

[kbaker]

More pictures:

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[SantaMonica]

Yes a double/triple screen will indeed "catch" more... which is exactly what you want. The algae has much much more stuff to grab onto, which mean less washes off into the water, and also you can clean the outer layers thoroughly without having to worry about leaving some algae behind (because the algae will be grown in-between the layers.)

Can you post close-up pics of the mutiple layers?

[kbaker]

Yes, Santa Monica, you were correct. More screen layers and roughing them up is more efficiant. (Is there a spell check here??)

I posted this morning, but I took the pictures and did the changes Thursday. Then I had like nothing on the either screen. From Thursday to this morning, I had a thin spotty covering on the Triple Screen. I was not sure if the build up was from the debri in the water getting trapped between the screens or was it growing. This morning after I posted, I cleaned the Triple Screen and then sewed a line at the top to keep the gap closed between the screens. I was gone most of the day. When I came home, I noticed it had more growth.

I will get some pictures.

[kbaker]

I am not sure what you wanted to see with the close ups. If I did not capture it, let me know and I will take more pictures. The battery died so I am charging it now. Also, I did not think to shut the pump off to take the pictures until after.

Only one screen goes into the bar. About an half inch from the sides and down from the bar is only on screen. The shower curtain rings go through all three screens. I sewed across just above the holes for the rings and down in the middle along the top of outer screens.

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[kbaker]

more...

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[SantaMonica]

Yes that last pic is more like it. I'm looking for a shot of the edge of the screen, to show the thickness/3layers. Maybe you could spread them apart a little to show the layers.

[kbaker]

It was hard to focus the camera on such a narrow area, but this is what I got...

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[kbaker]

more...

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[SantaMonica]

Yes that was what I wanted...

[kbaker]

I have been bad with updates and picture, I know.

Nothing too exciting - like watching grass grow. :lol:

The rough 3-ply screen is doing much better than the smoother single screen. I did get the new pump hooked up. I seem to have a flow problem. I am not sure if it is flow rate or design. The problem is that the water kind of sprays out the first cross cut parrallel to the bar so the flow is reduced in a triangle pattern on the first screen. At the last cleaning I took the dremel and cleaned up the slots. I did not open it much, but a little more than it was. It did not help. While thinking of how I was going to set this up when I first put it together, I was worried about even flow. Most designs I saw on here had one screen. I have two slots for two screens. I had thought about putting the intake of the bar between the two slots so each slot would have the same flow. I decided against that because of how I attached it to the trough. I saw a "loop" design on this site that I would like to try and see if it will help.

I have a tip for everyone:
I have found roughing up the screen to be time consuming and not so easy. I tried sandpaper and a wire brush. I am afraid to try a power tool because I believe it would cut through the screen instead of roughing it up. At the last cleaning I tried a hand saw. It's one of those 'shark tooth' saws. It worked quickly and easily. I just combed the screen in a diaginal pattern.

[SantaMonica]

As the algae gets more permanent in the slot area, it will fill itself up in that area, thus allowing water to go to the other areas. So, it is self-correcting.

Good point about using a saw blade.

[kbaker]

Update:
The algae is growing thicker and darker on the screens. The algae in the trough pretty much died and turned orange. It's slowly, but surely clearing out and the water is staying clear.

The water quality has kind of been tested. My wife bought 100 feeder rosies for the turtles. Like many times before, the petstore put 100 fish in a small bag and they die before you get them home. My wife said they were going nuts most of the way home and they just stopped. She handed me the bag and they were all floating in thick water. Instead of wasting them, I threw them in. I expected the turtles to eat their fill and then rip open the rest and make a nasty mess. I went back about an hour later to clean up the mess. What I found was a few scale dunes on the bottom, but most of the fish were doing just fine. The turtles ate a few, but no mess. The water quality had to be great for them to come back so strong - that never happened before.

[kcress]

Excellent news!

Got a close up of your actual turf you could shoot us?

[kbaker]

...charging the camera now.

[kbaker]

How are these???

[attachment=2:1tqhot07]1 Day After Cleaning 01.JPG[/attachment:1tqhot07]
[attachment=1:1tqhot07]1 Day After Cleaning 02.JPG[/attachment:1tqhot07]
[attachment=0:1tqhot07]1 Day After Cleaning 03.JPG[/attachment:1tqhot07]

[kbaker]

[attachment=2:2ht1wdbr]1 Day After Cleaning 04.JPG[/attachment:2ht1wdbr]
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[kbaker]

[attachment=2:620tqh8w]1 Day After Cleaning 07.JPG[/attachment:620tqh8w]
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[attachment=0:620tqh8w]1 Day After Cleaning 09.JPG[/attachment:620tqh8w]

I say one day after cleaning, but it's more of a rinsing. Previously, a rinsing was all it took since the algae was not growing too much. I am trying to time my next cleaning right before my vacation. I will have to scrub/scrape more than rinse next time.

[kcress]

Thanks for taking the time.
Tiz not like my turf. It's interesting the different types that evolve.

[consigliere]

That is a neat setup !!!
my son has a small turtle tank ...I would like to build him one like you have...
how bout a few pics of the turtle in it next time???
!!

[kbaker]

I got back from vacation yesterday. The screens are nice and full. And the water is crystal clear...great for taking a picture of the turtles. I will take some pictures when I recover from vacation.

[kbaker]

Sorry- I am over due with the turtle picture request...

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[kbaker]

I took some pictures and I am ready to give an update on my freshwater scrubber.

Some issues I had:
1) I did not feel my water flow rate was high enough.
2) I did not feel my water flow was even enough over the screens.
3) The weather has been really bad this summer.

Changes:
1) I added a second pump to increase flow.
2) I redesigned the bar for the screens.
3) I use a sponge on the intake.

Notes:
With the second pump and the redesigned bar my flow is much better...it's much more even. It solved my problem of the water shooting across the first screen and not going straight down. And it fixed the problem of no flow because there was not enough water at the other end of the second screen. I also had a problem of when it was time to clean the screens the flow was at it's best and even. So when I cleaned the screens and the slots, the flow was bad again. Now, the flow is good before and after cleanings.

When I changed the pump set up I cleanout the hoses. They had a thick wall of gunk in them. I am sure this effected my water flow.

I use the sponge for mechanical filtering to keep the water clear. This has been a problem because of timely cleanings, weather and the large particles are not taken in by the algae. I will start with the weather here. The last few summers have been scorching sun, above 85F, humid without rain...from begining to end. This year has been mostly below 80F and with half the day overcasted with sprinkles...regularly!! When we have a full day of sun at 82F, it crashes the system. I get plenty of growth on the screens, but the trough get loaded with algae too. There is not enough contrast between the trough and the scrubber to have the scrubber make a difference at that point. So I guess it's good that the summer has been cool??? Even without the long sunny days, I had problems making it to the seventh day cleaning without problems. The water would be full of algae and not clear at all. After having some crystal clear water weeks, it's dissappointing to see unclear water again.
I am getting two types of algae - dark and fluffy light green. The dark has been a standard from the beginning. I would clean after a week. It got to the point that after three to four days, the fluffy green would grow on the dark. If I got a long hot sunny day at this point, the fluffy green would grow like crazy. Being light and airy, this algae would soon fall into the trough before day seven. It would just snowball until I would just do a 100% water change.

At this point, I clean the screens and the sponge every three to four days. This is working well so far. I guess the big test would be if summer ever comes this year!!

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[Nathan]

That setup looks great! I keep turtles too and know how quickly they can foul water, so being able to keep that sort of clarity in a fairly heavily-stocked outdoor tank is incredible. I can see your yellowbellies and Ouachita, but what's the turtle at the bottom of pic 2?

[kbaker]

Yes, there are yellowbellied sliders & cooters, a map and a central american slider (large orange rings).
Thanks :D

[SantaMonica]

The rougher (porcupine/cactus) the screen is, the less algae will detach. Being FW with no pod problems, it will be interesting to see how long it can go.

[kbaker]

yes, I agree. Like you have been suggesting a hole saw, I used a straight wood saw (sharks teeth style) and combed the screen. It is plenty rough. The light green algae is very soft/fluffy with lots of air bubbles. It's like floating pond scum. It will fall off by itself, if I touch it or if the wind blows the screen. Also, because the dark algae covers the screen first, there isn't an screen for the fluffy algae.

I looked back at some of my screen pics and none of them show the fluffy algae. I will have to take some pictures to show you. I did get some lighter longer strand algae growing before and that stayed on the screen fine. The fluffy algae grows in small random bunches and not as a layer across the screen.

One more thing...the triple layer screen works best for the fluffy algae because it gets sandwiched between the screens with out falling off, but it still falls off the outer sides of the screens.

[ReefMe]

What is the "screen"? Where did you get it? I can't find anything like it anywhere!? I am going nutz looking for it ... Thanks for any info.

[SantaMonica]

Check the faq:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68)

[ReefMe]

Got it, thanks ! :D :D