Ruddybop's UAS test

[SantaMonica]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38e_Ml1i6QY&feature=player_embedded

[Fishuntbike]

Do you know what airstone and pump combination Ruddybop's is using?

[SantaMonica]

No but the video looks like a lot of bubbles.

[Fishuntbike]

Yup...looks good also he got some Algae scrubber videos on you tube including a spinning scrubber

[ruddybop]

QUOTE=Fishuntbike;20376]Do you know what airstone and pump combination Ruddybop's is using?[/QUOTE]

I am using Petco's 14" bubble bar and the pump was found in the garbage that someone discarded...Timeter PCS414 Portable Air Compressor

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[Fishuntbike]

Thanks..awesome pump

[ruddybop]

So I been working on my internal upflow algae scrubber for my 220G. It is not done yet, but I have made some progress. It will be painted black when I am finished, but for pictures it's easier when it's clear.
Drilled holes across the bottom for water flow inside the unit. Found some nylon screw so I drilled and mounted the bubble bar to the unit.
I just have to mount the screen into the unit and it will be ready to go.

After I have painted it black you will not see the slightly melted plexi with bubbles in it.... :)

The best bubble bars that I have found are the cheap Petco bubble bars. They come in 14" 18".

I you buy their inline check valve/air filter it keeps the dirt out of the bubble bar for longer life. (Inside it has cotton like material that catches debris)

I ordered the EcoPlus Commercial Air Pump 5 $70.47 with tax for this unit. 120v 80Watts 4.2 PSI, 3/8" ID Tube size, Single Outlet 88 Liter/min (3.11 CFM)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YejAVh-Xvo

[kotlec]

Nice build.

[kerry]

Really nice, I like it.

[ruddybop]

Really nice, I like it.


Nice build.

Thank You....

[ruddybop]

This is going to be my final design for the internal upflow algae scrubber. I have to paint the outside black, make a cover, and design my light.

Worked yesterday and today designing a way to remove the scrubber without any hassle, I think I got it figured out.....

This is going to be so fun to clean....Grab the screen and just do it. No tie wraps to cut, no bubble bar to remove, just open the cover and slide the screen out. Algae scrubbers shouldn't be this fun... :)



http://youtu.be/IlP2_0uL0KE

[C-Horse]

great design! I can't wait to see it in action.

[ruddybop]

great design! I can't wait to see it in action.

Thanks C-horse.... If I get my butt moving on it..... Sometimes I need a kick..., but not by a horse ... :)

[MorganAtlanta]

I'd put some sort of light blocker near the airstone. From what I can see in the various test setups, if the airstone gets light, it covers up with algae pretty fast, which would negate your nice slip in design for the screen since you'd have to pull it all out every cleaning anyway.

[ruddybop]

I'd put some sort of light blocker near the airstone. From what I can see in the various test setups, if the airstone gets light, it covers up with algae pretty fast, which would negate your nice slip in design for the screen since you'd have to pull it all out every cleaning anyway.

I agree maybe I do need to put a shield to block the light to the bubbler, but the other designs are tie wrapped to the bubbler and the algae grows on the screen and bubbler at the same time thus growing the screen to the bubbler. So my thought was to have the screen 1/2 inch above the bubbler so the algae doesn't weld both together.... If I have any issues the slip in design can be removed an modified...

Thanks for your input.... You have a good point... :)

[ruddybop]

I'd put some sort of light blocker near the airstone. From what I can see in the various test setups, if the airstone gets light, it covers up with algae pretty fast, which would negate your nice slip in design for the screen since you'd have to pull it all out every cleaning anyway.

I have thought your idea over after staring at this thing for a while and I agree your idea needs to be done. Thanks for the input and here are some of the pics I took with the light guard in place so the Bubble bar gets less light and less algae growth on it...

This also will keep the bubbles tight against the screen coming through the opening...

Thanks Again...

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[whites]

nice!!

[ruddybop]

nice!!

Thanks Whites..... Well got the top cover formed and painted...The body of the unit is painted and everything is ready to go.....Patiently waiting for paint to dry....I got my pump in the mail.....Not as strong as the one I'm using, but it only pulls 80 watts.

Maybee tomorrow I'll put it back together.... Cheers... :)

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[ruddybop]

Well.... I can still smell the paint fumes a little... It's dry to the touch but I am a patient man... I will wait one more day....

All I have left to do is cut the white bars even on each side of the unit.... Hmmm... Oh look I have a beer.... I guess I will sip on this while I wait... :)

Darn it I forgot to file one spot flat on the blue lid... see the burs......

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[SantaMonica]

Very nice. But screen seems very big. What is the feeding?

[ruddybop]

This scrubber is not for the tank in the pic.

It is for my 220G tank

2-Oscars 9" and 6"
2-Dempsey's 8" and 6"
7-Convicts 2" up to 5"
2-Synodontis Catfish 8"
2-Pictus Cats 6" and 5"
1-Pleco 5"
2-Firemouths 6"
2-Blood Parrots 7"

For the amount of feeding I do not know the amount.

I feed Dried meal worms and cichlid mix when I get home from work and Then they get fed later with about 20 peas and some more food.

My Nitrates are 80+ So I have to do water changes frequently... If I remember darn it...... That is why I have a larger unit...... 14x10 screen Light on one side.
The whole unit is 14"H x 16"W x 3"D .... It will not take up much room on the side wall of the tank.... I never see the fish over there anyway... :)

I also have Golden Pothos in the tank,but that doesn't seem to help any for the size stock and aquarium size.

It kinda did look large in that 29H aquarium....lol

[SantaMonica]

Can you get 140 watts of CFL on it?

[ruddybop]

yes......140 no problem cfl. That was going to be my next experience.... Making the lighting system for it.... I have room for Cfl or led....

I will be using an led grow light 12"x12" for the moment while I make my light system....At least it will get it started growing...

[SantaMonica]

Actually, 10 bulbs X 14" T5's would be a better fit than CFLs.

[ruddybop]

This is where I am going to need help..pweez...lol... I'm open for suggestions..Wattage and how many bulbs

[ruddybop]

Actually, 10 bulbs X 14" T5's would be a better fit than CFLs.

Do you have a link for these t5s or even a link with the fixture....

[SantaMonica]

Here is a T8...
http://1000bulbs.com/product/54450/F-14T08D.html

[ruddybop]

Here is a T8...
http://1000bulbs.com/product/54450/F-14T08D.html


Ok great what about the fixtures.... :)

[ruddybop]

Here is a T8...
http://1000bulbs.com/product/54450/F-14T08D.html

Ok here is what I have so far.

Screen size 10x14 inches

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/5314/SOCK-L13357U.html ----t8 lamp holders $0.78 each 20 needed ---need them to be close together to fit 10 f14t8s side by side. $15.60 + shipping


http://www.iballast.com/fluorescent/t8-ballast/f14t8/wh8-120-l.html --------(3/4/5/or 6 lamps) F14T8 $42.00 ea on Amazon I will need 2 $84 + shipping


http://1000bulbs.com/product/54450/F-14T08D.html The link You gave me---- F14T8/D Lamp ---- $1.05 ea 10 bulbs needed - $10.50 + shipping


$110.00 + shipping

So where I am going with this is... How does this cost compare to an led system... and what works better.. Led or florescent ... choices choices... :)

[kerry]

I like the LED personally and they are dirt cheap compared to other lighting. Topledlights on ebay has stuff and so does led-dna. I I am in a rush I use topledlights because they are in Ca. and I dont have to wait for overseas shipping. I have never tried LED on my FW stuff only CFL but I have used both on the SW and prefer the LED.

[Floyd R Turbo]

HeatsinkUSA, 10" x 10" $30 + $5 handling + ~$11 shipping = $46

LEDs from SatisLED (they are FAST shippers) I would do one 3W 660nm LED for every 2x2 area (since it's single-sided) or as little as one for every 3x3, sio you're looking at somewhere between 16 and 32 of those, then 6:1 red:blue so 3 or 5 blue 450-455s, those are about $1.79 each from Satis = between $35-$70

Thermal pads or Arctic Silver adhesive = $7 to $20

Driver, $34

Wire, solder, plug for driver, $10

Total cost $130 - $180

figure in lamp change cost and energy savings and it's a no brainer

[ruddybop]

Floyd,SM, and Kerry Thanks for the replies on the lighting....I'm gonna think this over and try to decide what way to go...led or florescent..

I got the unit in the tank today using a $45 grow light 1' x 1' square.
Lol...the bubbles are so powerful that it blows the lid off this unit.... Gonna have to design a way to keep the lid on. The surface of the water looks like its boiling so this pump I purchased is doing the job with the 14 inch bubble bar....

In the 220 it isn't taking up much room.... Here are a couple of pics.. Without the lid...lol

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[kerry]

Looks real nice and so does the tank.
I see your air pump is located below your tank(assuming that clear tube goes to it), you should put this above your tank so in case of power outage the water does not siphon out of the air hose. Even if you have a check valve they can get blocked by lint and hang open.

[ruddybop]

Thanks Kerry.... yes it's going to be under the tank...And lint will not help me god forbid. I run the one way valves with the filters built in it (basically they have a larger body with like cotton material in them so dirt doesn't clog the air stones....I could put a couple of those inline. The first one would stop any lint from getting through to the second one....

This pump isn't a quite one.... I might put it in the basement and run the hose down there... Maybe loop the air hose high above the tank.

Or I could drill a hole in the wall and have it in the cabinet above the frig..... I'll have to do it when the wife isn't looking.... :)

[kerry]

Thats when I drill my holes too!! LOL. I used the "Its an old TV cable hole to many times though". Our house was built in 2002 and we have not move the living area around that much and I got busted LOL. Two valves should be OK. I have used one of those 1/4" hose fuel filters for a lawn tractor before in the air hose line to keep the valves free of debris.

[ruddybop]

Thats when I drill my holes too!! LOL. I used the "Its an old TV cable hole to many times though". Our house was built in 2002 and we have not move the living area around that much and I got busted LOL.

lolol....That's great..... She asked me to drill one of those the other day... Hmmmm .... Evil :)

[ruddybop]

Well I got this unit in the tank and running..... I only have a 14 Watt grow light on it at the moment... 2 days cooking and the screen is still white....I gotta get some real light in there... :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmEI6yQDVaQ

[SantaMonica]

And food.

[ruddybop]

OK.... I need light now...lol 18W on a 9x14 screen just isn't doing it for me. So when I was driving the other day I ran across two wine boxes sidewalk shopping... I already had 6 light sockets and a cord on the shelf.

While at Lowe's I bought 6 17W 6500k CFL bulbs... at 2.50 ea . Ok so now I have 102 Watts. Good enough for now. I will add some more when I get some sockets.

This one will work on my 55G with the 9x9 screen, but I am going to put it on the other scrubber in the 220G for now...

I have another Wine box, so I will make the other light for the 55G.

So I have 15 bucks into my light set up right now.

Oh and I also picked up some of these reflectors/mirrors
http://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Plastic-Mirrors-Pkg-4/dp/B005HYN88A


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[Floyd R Turbo]

Nice, should work pretty well. Also I will have to remember that link to the reflectors.

[ruddybop]

Nice, should work pretty well. Also I will have to remember that link to the reflectors.

24"x39" --- $14.99--- Amazon --- this isn't a bad deal either

http://www.amazon.com/Mirror-Flexible-Silver-Adhesive-CRAFTING/dp/B004XBRPL4/ref=pd_sbs_indust_4

[Fishuntbike]

very well....keep it coming

[ruddybop]

So I got my flexible plastic mirror package in the the mail the other day and I decided it was time to see what I can do for some light reflection.

I got the plastic to curve in the box by stapling it down. I didn't want to place it flat in the box because how are you suppose to deflect light if it's facing flat.

With the curves I put on the mirror material it kinda looks like 18 bulbs looking strait on at it even though there are 6.

I was wrong on my light bulb cfl's wattage. I thought they were 17W each. They are 13 watts each so I have 78Watts total not 102Watts like I thought.
With the reflective mirrors hopefully I will not have to get more CFL bulbs.

Total cost so far around $40.00

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[ruddybop]

Ok this is 7 days with the light that I built. I am running 18 hour. To me it looks like I have to strong of a light, but I'm not sure..


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[SantaMonica]

Let it go 10 days.

[scrubit]

So I got my flexible plastic mirror package in the the mail the other day and I decided it was time to see what I can do for some light reflection.

I got the plastic to curve in the box by stapling it down. I didn't want to place it flat in the box because how are you suppose to deflect light if it's facing flat.

With the curves I put on the mirror material it kinda looks like 18 bulbs looking strait on at it even though there are 6.

I was wrong on my light bulb cfl's wattage. I thought they were 17W each. They are 13 watts each so I have 78Watts total not 102Watts like I thought.
With the reflective mirrors hopefully I will not have to get more CFL bulbs.

Total cost so far around $40.00

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wow, I like those reflectors...nice job man!

[ruddybop]

wow, I like those reflectors...nice job man!

Hey thanks... :)

[HeavyTy]

Hey ruddy, Im following kerry's hob design also. Was wondering wear you got the black bubbler setup. I got the s15 also for my 10g. Gonna try it without cutting the guts out first. Waiting for my leds now.

[ruddybop]

Hey ruddy, Im following kerry's hob design also. Was wondering wear you got the black bubbler setup. I got the s15 also for my 10g. Gonna try it without cutting the guts out first. Waiting for my leds now.

When our old refrigerator blew up. I salvaged some parts from it and the black stiff (but Flexible) hose was from one of the water lines on the frig. I have some very small dentist drills I used to drill the holes. Thanks to my Dentist. :)

It's just standard 1/4" OD black tubing. ID is about .170". The hose barbs fit right into it..

[HeavyTy]

Hmmmm trying to think how I can duplicate that without the teeny drill

[ruddybop]

Hmmmm trying to think how I can duplicate that without the teeny drill

This 20 Piece Wire Gauge Drill Bits and Micro Chuck Diameters from .012" to .037". Price: $8.95

http://www.amazon.com/Piece-Gauge-Drill-Micro-Diameters/dp/B008AB4PFM

Harbor freight might have them this small also..

I used a .012" drill for my holes.
Your only drilling into plastic so it doesn't have to be a high quality drill set.

If your using a hand drill I would suggest putting the drill bit in the drill. Fastening the Drill Motor to a table with the power on and holding the tube/hose with your hand.
Run the tube in and out of the drill bit making your holes. I drilled my holes about every 1/8" and it made a nice even wall of bubbles.

I tried holding the drill motor with my hand and almost broke the drill bit. It's very tiny and hard to see.

I stopped using the Drill motor and went to my table top drill.

I think some guys use a needle on the clear hose, but this black tube is thicker.
I didn't try the needle method.

[ruddybop]

OK this is my 11th day cooking with 82 Watts. Reflectors behind the CFL lights were put on about day 7. Screen 9"x14"

The Light guard is working perfect. No algae on the bubble bar. See how the screen is clean about 1 1/2" down....

I scraped the screen on the 7th day and scraped the screen today. Put it back in to simmer... :)

Here is the front of the screen.

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And here is the back of the screen

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So do I have to much light or to little light... Or do I let it cook more to get the screen to mature???

[SantaMonica]

I'd say too little. But it might green up when nutrients come down.

[HeavyTy]

So what brand or where did you find the stiff black 1/4 inch airline. I looked in Lowes and Didnt see the stiff stuff

[ruddybop]

So what brand or where did you find the stiff black 1/4 inch airline. I looked in Lowes and Didnt see the stiff stuff

Clear tubing.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_15275-104-SPEB25_4294822036__?productId=3130913&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

Black tubing

http://www.lowes.com/pd_208024-13598-016005P_4294822036__?productId=3136417&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

[HeavyTy]

Yea I thought the clear would get clogged. Thats why I didn't get it. I saw the spot for the raindrip one but it was empty. Guess ill have to check back later.

[ruddybop]

Yea I thought the clear would get clogged. Thats why I didn't get it. I saw the spot for the raindrip one but it was empty. Guess ill have to check back later.

The clear shouldn't clog as long as you use an inline air filter/check valve that keep any dirt/lint from blowing through the airline and possibly clogging the small holes up.

I have a 3/8" barb inlet on my pump so I can also add an air filter to it.

[ruddybop]

I'd say too little. But it might green up when nutrients come down.

Just from reading the info on here for CFL. The suggested CFL Kelvin 6500K. I have run into 23W bulbs with 2700K, but didn't buy them. Can I use these or do I have to run 6500K for the Scrubber to run efficiently?

[Garf]

Just from reading the info on here for CFL. The suggested CFL Kelvin 6500K. I have run into 23W bulbs with 2700K, but didn't buy them. Can I use these or do I have to run 6500K for the Scrubber to run efficiently?

On the bits that I have read, the 2700 and 3000 kelvin bulbs are preferred over the daylight kelvin ratings because they output a greater percentage of red wavelengths. I use 3000K.

[ruddybop]

On the bits that I have read, the 2700 and 3000 kelvin bulbs are preferred over the daylight kelvin ratings because they output a greater percentage of red wavelengths. I use 3000K.

Hmm.... I wish I could recall were I got 6500K from, But I will switch them out then... Thanks Garf..

[kerry]

It is the 2700K you want to run because they have more red spectrum in them in them. I have tried the 5000K and they didn't produce the growth that the 2700K did. It was not as noticeable on my waterfall as the production was only cut down by about a 1/4 or so but it was very evident on my horizontal as it was cut down by about 3/4.

[ruddybop]

It is the 2700K you want to run because they have more red spectrum in them in them. I have tried the 5000K and they didn't produce the growth that the 2700K did. It was not as noticeable on my waterfall as the production was only cut down by about a 1/4 or so but it was very evident on my horizontal as it was cut down by about 3/4.

Thanks...Later today I will run and get some 23W ers ar 2700K.... This will bring my wattage total to 138Watts with reflectors on my 9 x 14" screen...

[ruddybop]

Ok I got my bulbs, but I had to modify my Wine box fixture. The light bulbs are longer so I had to move the light fixtures further out. They fit like a glove now and oh don't look at them when they're on....lol

I will let it cook this week with 138Watts and see what happens. Then I'll post some pics........ Thanks for the help.... :)

[sklywag]

So much going on now with scrubbers it's hard to keep up on some of it. Not like the good ol' days of ATS. 1 square inch per gallon, 23 watt CFLs with reflectors and you're done. That was the standard. I have a 90g in the garage waiting to be set up but I keep flip flopping on design. I keep staring at the Ruddybop and following it/you. I have the makings in the garage for it but waiting on you to iron it out.
And when you do and I build it. You'll go LED.

[ruddybop]

So much going on now with scrubbers it's hard to keep up on some of it. Not like the good ol' days of ATS. 1 square inch per gallon, 23 watt CFLs with reflectors and you're done. That was the standard. I have a 90g in the garage waiting to be set up but I keep flip flopping on design. I keep staring at the Ruddybop and following it/you. I have the makings in the garage for it but waiting on you to iron it out.
And when you do and I build it. You'll go LED.

I have no interest at the moment to go led. Not that I'm against them, But I had the room for CFLs and the money for them. If you read through my post Floyd said it would cost around 150 to 180 $ to build it and I like my cheap CFL light that I built at the moment.... Thanks for having an interest... :)

There are a couple of things that I want to change already that I don't like.

1. I don't like my blue lid... I will fabricate another one..

2. The slot for the scrubber to slide in works great, but I tested it out of water so it falls in easily. When it's in water the screen moves around and you have to play with it a little until it gets lined up to fall in the slots... The water pushes it around. Kinda like picking up a wet noodle off the floor.... So I need to look at that..

[ruddybop]

Day 18

This is my screen with 5 days growth using 138watts @ 2700K. You can see the green coming in, but it's not a rich green. I do however like how evenly the screen grows so my light is distributed all through out the 9x14 screen.

My question is because of the large size of my screen. The Algae is like a mud.

Am I doing something wrong or is this good growth?

Do I need to change anything?

Will it grow in eventually?


Front Side

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Back side

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[Floyd R Turbo]

FW, right? How much are you feeding?

[SantaMonica]

It will turn more green as the nutrients come down, and will reach an equilibrium.

[ruddybop]

FW, right? How much are you feeding?

Yes Floyd Fresh Water.

I never measured my food... I feed them about 20 dried meal worms, Some cichlid mix at 3 PM the at 8pm about 20 peas and another batch of cichlid mix... and it all gets eaten...

[ruddybop]

It will turn more green as the nutrients come down, and will reach an equilibrium.

Ok I did a 70 gallon water change today.. It was needed..Had high Nitrates (That's why I Made this.. )
Gutted the FX5 and cleaned it out.... Still have the sump ... I'll clean the Fluval 305 next week.

Hopefully this will lower some of the nutrients down and let the Algae grow better.

[ruddybop]

FW, right? How much are you feeding?

This is what my Algae scrubber is for Floyd..... 21 Fish

2-Oscars 9" and 6"
2-Dempsey's 8" and 6"
7-Convicts 2" up to 5"
2-Synodontis Catfish 8"
2-Pictus Cats 6" and 5"
1-Pleco 5"
2-Firemouths 6"
2-Blood Parrots 7"
1- Iridescent 6"


http://youtu.be/R9PiTal35iM

[Floyd R Turbo]

Those look like some big piggies....

I would say you just need to let it grow in a little more, hard to say with so few UASs running, let alone a large one on a heavy bioload FW tank. Remember mine took over a month to start growing gangbusters. Just cleaned again today and another good harvest, consistent with the last 2.

[ruddybop]

Those look like some big piggies....

I would say you just need to let it grow in a little more, hard to say with so few UASs running, let alone a large one on a heavy bioload FW tank. Remember mine took over a month to start growing gangbusters. Just cleaned again today and another good harvest, consistent with the last 2.

Yes I think I will let it grow more...I didn't clean it yet just put it back in the box... It looks a lot greener with the light hitting it. So I do have green on it, but it's more of a slime green rather than floating string algae.

The best part I like is that it's growing even all around the screen.

[ruddybop]

First of all my house has central air so it's not the hotter outside temp.

I am having heat issues with my light set up with 138 Watts. My tank has raised from 79 to about 84 degrees.
It has always stayed 79 solid until I started running this so I know it is nothing else.
When I place the light box I leave about 1/4" away from the glass so the heat can escape but that isn't working.

So I dug in the basement through my computer stuff and gathered 2 fans. Looked through another drawer and found a small 12v power supply.

Drilled some holes in the top of the box and two inside where the heat will get sucked out. Boxed the top section in with a piece of wood so the hot air gets sucked out through the inner holes.

I'll try this and see if it fixes my heat issue. It should suck cool air in through the sides and out the top.


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[Floyd R Turbo]

That should do the trick nicely. Plenty of air flow with those fans.

[ruddybop]

That should do the trick nicely. Plenty of air flow with those fans.

I can definitely feel the heat coming out the top. I'll run it this week and let ya know how it works.

[ruddybop]

Well ... I went to check on my scrubber and noticed the air wasn't as strong. Checked the air line and it got kinked when I did a water change the other day. Un-kinked it and we got bubble flowing now.
Then I noticed a dark grey tail at the top of the scrubber and it disappeared down inside. Well look who came out after putting him in the tank and never seeing him again.

The Rubber Pleco 3" long found a food source. I thought he was dead. First time I have seen him in over a year..... :)

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[kerry]

This is what my Algae scrubber is for Floyd..... 21 Fish

2-Oscars 9" and 6"
2-Dempsey's 8" and 6"
7-Convicts 2" up to 5"
2-Synodontis Catfish 8"
2-Pictus Cats 6" and 5"
1-Pleco 5"
2-Firemouths 6"
2-Blood Parrots 7"
1- Iridescent 6"


http://youtu.be/R9PiTal35iM
Thats a very nice NWC tank you have there. I got 3 Oscars and a JD in my 125, boy talk about nitrate!!!! I gotta get a scrubber in that think!! It climbs to 80PPM in a week.

[ruddybop]

Thats a very nice NWC tank you have there. I got 3 Oscars and a JD in my 125, boy talk about nitrate!!!! I gotta get a scrubber in that think!! It climbs to 80PPM in a week.

Thanks Kerry.. ... Yes that's why I built this large unit for my 220, mine climbs to that in a week also.... These guys eat like barn animals... :)

[ruddybop]

OK here we go 21 days.... I yike green .... This was a great grow for 7 days.. Green is coming in. Gave it a cleaning and back in the pot it went... :)

Font side 9x14 screen

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Back side

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The harvest lol

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[kerry]

My waterfall scrubber that was in my 150G when it was FW had two almost full size screens and it grew algae so fast I cleaned it about every 4-5 ish days. Even with that I went from two water changes a week to about one or two a month.

[ruddybop]

My waterfall scrubber that was in my 150G when it was FW had two almost full size screens and it grew algae so fast I cleaned it about every 4-5 ish days. Even with that I went from two water changes a week to about one or two a month.

That's what I'm hoping for... Doing a water change as we speak. Mine are usually about 80 like yours were so this is why I built this large scrubber to test it out... I can always make the screen smaller if I have to and it will still work in the box that I made....This is still a test in progress.... :)

[kerry]

I fed my 150G about 5-8 cubes a day. Here is the link (page 3) with pics toward the bottom: http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1402-Freshwater-scrubber/page3 . Even with two the two screen conversion (224sq"'s) I could not get the nitrates to zero as I could in my SW tanks. It helped for sure but was not a huge reduction in W/C's. I had 3 44watt CFL's which was a bit under powered. I hope the UAS in FW does not make long stringy algae.
I dont think FW algae is as effective as SW algae. There has been much more testing on SW then FW units so maybe with the increase in FW units I see now days maybe we can get some good facts nailed down on FW UAS units.

[RkyRickstr]

Yea but kerry in fw u dont have to get no3 to zero anyway. With religious waterchanges the lowest i got them in my breeding tanks was 15. And the fry grew like mad and i fed like a mad man, temp always at 84 to get their metabolism up.

If i go back to cichlids one day (have an empty 125.. lol). Ill be happy if the scrubber keeps nitrates at 20 with no waterchanges.

[kerry]

I was hoping for about 20ish but it would always creep back up to 80 in 2-4 weeks depending on feeding. I still need to go back to the FW and do another solid/strong scrubber and not one that was a little short of spec's. I really like the FW but the SW is so much easier now because of the scrubber making W/C virtually stop besides the couple I do a year because is makes me feel better LOL. From the past results I got I feel as if the FW might need double the light and screen or maybe only half the cube rating as SW. These tests were based on double the screen and almost double the light. My light should have been 3 @ 56Watts but I had 3 @ 44Watts so it was lacking a bit.
With this new LED stuff and the UAS I hope to revisit this soon and start getting some results and data.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Could high N in FW have anything to do with lack of P? Never tried FW scrubbing before so very interested. I have a customer with a 225g RR w/sump Cichlid tank w/100 fish and he does 100g/wk changes and the fish are getting huge and reproducing so I have to constantly remind him to keep on those PWCs like mad. I'm sure he could benefit from a scrubber but it would be a tricky install with his setup.

[kerry]

I have wondered about the N and P ratio as well but it was after I converted my 150G to SW. I was doing two 50%+ w/c per week.

[ruddybop]

Day 27 ... 6 days after cleaning... I am getting a very even growth on the screen. It's not long and stringy like some of the other scrubbers I see. This is on my fresh water 220G.

The light blocker I made is working great. No algae on the bubbler and bottom of screen.

I did not clean it, but I did wipe the algae off the inside glass...... Think I should clean it and start fresh again or let it cook some more......

It is very green with the light on it. Looks darker out of the tank

Front side

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Back side

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[kerry]

I am surprised you dont have better growth with the FW. I could barely keep up with the cleaning on my 150G with dual screens. Maybe you need more light???

[SantaMonica]

It's too big for the amount of feeding, so the growth stays thin.

[ruddybop]

It's too big for the amount of feeding, so the growth stays thin.

Ok...I have had nitrate problems with this tank forever... I changed 140Gallons in three days and it's still high 40 to 80 .. Going to do another water change tomorrow.

I got reading and found that Bio Balls with a drip tray causes the oxygen/water/bacteria to make a nitrate factory..I have 8Gallons of Bio Balls with 1 Gallon under water. Sooo I am doing some changes.. Bio Balls are now completely submerged under water except for about an inch with scrubbies mixed in.. Drip tray is elevated about 8 inches above.

And...I cut back on feeding because of my nitrate problem(reason for making this) But I realized the scrubber can't filter if it doesn't have food, so I have continued to feed my normal amount.

These guys are pigs.... :)

[sklywag]

Why not remove those balls and drop your scrubber in their place?

[ruddybop]

Why not remove those balls and drop your scrubber in their place?

Lol...because I'm scared to.... This FW 220G tank has been set up for 21 months with Sump, FX5, Fluval 305 (Both Fluval media baskets are set up for Biological filtration). Ammonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate---All over the place.

I am open to suggestions though....I'm just afraid of loosing my Bio Filtration

[kerry]

Well you have plenty of places for BB to grow for sure because your nitrate is high. I would start by taking about a gallon or two of balls out every day or every other and watch the nutrients. I did this same thing after I started my 150G FW scrubber. I had better results when I finally got all the balls out. The only BB material I kept was the bio wheel on the H.O.T Magnum. You will have plenty of surface area for BB like the glass, substrate, and rock type ornaments.

[ruddybop]

Day 31

Well my growth is still green and it's starting to get a slight 3D to it.
Any suggestions?
Clean it or let it go longer?

It doesn't have a good smell to it......lol


Front of screen

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Back of screen

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[ruddybop]

Well you have plenty of places for BB to grow for sure because your nitrate is high. I would start by taking about a gallon or two of balls out every day or every other and watch the nutrients. I did this same thing after I started my 150G FW scrubber. I had better results when I finally got all the balls out. The only BB material I kept was the bio wheel on the H.O.T Magnum. You will have plenty of surface area for BB like the glass, substrate, and rock type ornaments.

Oh and Kerry..... I took a couple of gallons of bio balls out... I'll work on getting more out in a few more days...

I removed my Fluval 305 and put it on the 55 in the garage. So I just have the sump and FX5......

[SantaMonica]

Clean

[ruddybop]

Clean

Thanks SM... All clean .... Sometimes you say let it go for 14 days so I figure I would ask.... I think you say that for the fresh starting scrubbers don't you?

[SantaMonica]

Depends how it's growing. Yours was dark and dying.

[ruddybop]

Well you have plenty of places for BB to grow for sure because your nitrate is high. I would start by taking about a gallon or two of balls out every day or every other and watch the nutrients. I did this same thing after I started my 150G FW scrubber. I had better results when I finally got all the balls out. The only BB material I kept was the bio wheel on the H.O.T Magnum. You will have plenty of surface area for BB like the glass, substrate, and rock type ornaments.

Kerry....I ran into this Bio Ball Tower for a Koi Pond... I found this very interesting write up. It explains the whole Biological filtration and how bio balls can filter ammonia,nitrite, and nitrate if made correctly. The surrounding air plays an important role in a bio ball tower to get rid of gases so wet/drys aren't a nitrite factory. Are wet/drys are enclosed so the gases cant escape... This link explains it better with video...

http://lukmannet.blogspot.com/2010/10/trickle-tower-perfect-biological-pond.html

[kerry]

I have made a couple huge bio ball towers and could never over come the nitrate. I would like to know this guys theory on "vaporizing" LOL, I need to learn this. I do not understand how he is exporting nitrate in an oxygen rich environment. Even with my 6 foot tall tower at a very slow trickle I could not export the nitrate.
Most ponds will take care of nitrate as they age and become like an ecosystem. I would bet this is likely what has happened and it was not his tower deal IMO.
The enclosed and open towers I experimented with where failures for exporting nitrate. Maybe someone else with some more brain power can explain why his exports nitrate. I dont get it at all. Very interesting build he has for sure. Thanks for the info Sir.

[ruddybop]

I have made a couple huge bio ball towers and could never over come the nitrate. I would like to know this guys theory on "vaporizing" LOL, I need to learn this. I do not understand how he is exporting nitrate in an oxygen rich environment. Even with my 6 foot tall tower at a very slow trickle I could not export the nitrate.
Most ponds will take care of nitrate as they age and become like an ecosystem. I would bet this is likely what has happened and it was not his tower deal IMO.
The enclosed and open towers I experimented with where failures for exporting nitrate. Maybe someone else with some more brain power can explain why his exports nitrate. I dont get it at all. Very interesting build he has for sure. Thanks for the info Sir.

Yes and these guys make coil denitrifier so when the water runs through the coil tube the oxygen gets used up by the time it reaches the bottom for the filtration process of nitrates... I don't get it either....He did have a very scientific write up on it though.....

[kerry]

I understand the coil deal. I thought about building one until I ran across the scrubber.

[ruddybop]

Day - 45 - OK I decided to let it go for about 14 days just for fun... SM mentioned that my Algae was possibly dying so he said to clean it...

This is 2 pics with the scrubber... Notice the darker areas of the screen...

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2980

This what was harvested.

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And this is what it looks like in the tank with some very full areas...The black parts on the first two pics are actually the algae very thick lying flat, but when I put it in the water it starts to come alive with 3d algae.

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So.... My questions

1. - Do I have enough light or too much light. 138w 9x14 screen.....16hours

2. - Does Algae grow thick or fine in Fresh Water... Mine is very thin. Soft to the touch, but grows out from the screen about 3/4" when in the water. Flattens out when pulled out.

3. - What suggestions do I need to do if any for my scrubber...

[SantaMonica]

Light seems fine, if it grows green.

FW might grow thinner. But upflows will usually seem thinner (at least with weak bubbles) because the water is supporting the thin stuff and not ripping it away.

Seem good the way you have it.

[ruddybop]

Light seems fine, if it grows green.

FW might grow thinner. But upflows will usually seem thinner (at least with weak bubbles) because the water is supporting the thin stuff and not ripping it away.

Seem good the way you have it.

From looking at the bald spots on the screen do you think I have too much screen.

What if I cut off about 2 to 3 " off each side. Do you think it would grow thicker. Or just leave it and see if it grows on those spots...

[SantaMonica]

They are from detachment; not lack of growth. A 2-sided screen would help keep the roots illuminated longer.

[ruddybop]

I haven't posted in a while because I was trying some different things to see if this would grow better. 220G Fresh Water 9x14 screen...My scrubber is more like a 2 week scrubber and I found if I rotate the screen... meaning when one side is all grown in clean the back side (only) and stick it back in my scrubber with the clean side to the light and the grown side to the back/dark area. The grown side starts to get smaller and the new side to the light starts to grow like crazy. I have only done this once for my test, but I just took it out tonight and the algae is 10" to 12" long. The green is nice and rich. I also cut some slots in the screen to let light illuminate the back side.

I found if I clean my scrubber completely that it doesn't grow as nice. So I am rotating the cleaning to one side only and flipping the screen around with the full grown side to the back/less light.

Here are some pics of the Algae.
When the screen is completely out of water it looks like nothing has really grown.

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Then put it in the water and it comes to life. You can see how long the algae is...

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This is by far the best growth that I have had... :)


I will keep trying it this way and keep trying different thing so see what make my scrubber grow better....

[Floyd R Turbo]

That's some crazy long growth! FW scrubbers definitely grow differently than SW scrubbers, that's for sure.

[ruddybop]

That's some crazy long growth! FW scrubbers definitely grow differently than SW scrubbers, that's for sure.

Yes it is crazy... I could make a wig...

That was my problem Floyd.. I was waiting for this lush thick green carpet of grass.. From what I have seen At least with my Fresh Water scrubber is that it is thin and mushy, soft, slimy algae.... lol

[alex leblanc]

And how goes your nitrate? Did it come down?

[ruddybop]

And how goes your nitrate? Did it come down?

I'm still fighting with my nitrates at the moment in the 220G... 40ppm and higher.... doing water changes, but with this new idea I have clean one side only. It has only been three weeks.... I have cut my fish down to 16... from the 22 or 21 ....lol .. I lost count...

Took 6 Convicts out and have them in a 55G with a scrubber........ That scrubber has been 40+ppm so far...... I'm still trying new things, but have to do water changes in the process.....

10G with 3 fish stays 10 to 20 ppm .... and I have never done a water change...... 1 betta 2", 1 tetra 2", 1 bristle nose pleco 3"

[kerry]

Thats all I have ever grown in a my FW scrubber when it was going.

[ruddybop]

Thats all I have ever grown in a my FW scrubber when it was going.

Yeah I noticed that the salt water come in a lot thicker. This is the first time mine has grown like this. Took for ever trying different things.

Maybe now I can start to see how it controls my nitrates in this big tank..

[ruddybop]

Today I disconnected my FX5 (just for test purposes) because I have heard that some canister filters can be a nitrite factory making nitrate with all the waste that gets stuck in it.

I put all the ceramic and other media in my sump along with the sponges after I cleaned them to keep the bacteria alive. The main filter now is a 100 Micron Sock. I guess I'm trying different things to see if I can lower my Nitrate. Still ranging from 40 to 80 ppm with the 9x14 scrubber. I also removed one Tiger Oscar that was getting beat up by my Kamfa... He is resting in my 55 with a few Convicts and some medication. (Got roughed up pretty good)

So now I just have a sump on my 220G FW. I just can't get it to lower and stay lowered...

[kerry]

I had the same issue, no lower then 40-ish as well. I took my canister out and it improved a little but I soon took it down to convert it to SW as it is now.

[alex leblanc]

I've removed my canister without any problem and my nitrate start to go down, Ive remove the biomedia in my aquaclear 500 still no problem. I'm now running only the aquaclear 500 with a sponge that I clean under the faucet each week and the UAS and everybody look happy and breeding. But I feed alot less then suggest, will see with time if I could up the feeding.

[ruddybop]

Hopefully Alex and Kerry this will help... I guess time will tell... Funny how my 15 G at work will not even register any Nitrate and it just has algae on all the glass surface and some in the sponges on my hang on.... I'm beginning to thing that fresh water scrubbers need to be bigger for some reason on this 220G.... I haven't given up yet because I know it works. My 15G has proven it, but the 15G also has over 500 square inches of surface algae all over... It's not the prettiest tank but my Angels are healthy.... :)

[kerry]

Keep us posted please. I know it works but I think FW might need to bigger as well. I had almost two full size screens but I was a little under powered on the light but I grew so much algae I had to clean the screen about every 5 days (+/- 1 day in most cases). Waiting a week was to long as the algae would start to fall off and end up in the tank.

[ruddybop]

Just a short video of the growth on my scrubber.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHyIUfjKXSA

[alex leblanc]

Wow, hope mine would look like that someday. The algae seem the same as mine but yours are alot longer then mine!

[ruddybop]

From what I have seen it seems fresh water takes longer to grow and it doesn't grow as thick as Salt Water.... Yours should fill in after a while... :)

[kerry]

I had super fast growth with my FW but it was very thin as you say and very weak strands compared to SW.

[ruddybop]

I had super fast growth with my FW but it was very thin as you say and very weak strands compared to SW.

Let me say this differently.. It took my fresh water scrubber longer to get it started... Yes once it got started it grew fast...

It took mine a long time to grow (Meaning getting it started in the beginning stages. Took mine a couple of months or more until it was established.)

[kerry]

Mine was growing awesome in well under three weeks. I did have huge nitrate numbers though, like 80-160PPM in less then 4-5 days time. Maybe the high nutrients helped mine.

[ruddybop]

Mine was growing awesome in well under three weeks. I did have huge nitrate numbers though, like 80-160PPM in less then 4-5 days time. Maybe the high nutrients helped mine.

You know now that I'm thinking about it no wonder it took so long to grow. On a 9x14 canvas I started out with a cheap 1ft x 1ft grow light(standard leds) for a while then made my 6cfl/13w 6500K 78watt light.

Then changes the cfls to 6cfl/23w 2700K 138Watts. I forgot I did a lot of messing around until my light was complete... Mine is now growing in 4 to 5 days also... :)

[kerry]

You are doing just as I was then. Mine was on the low side of wattage but seeing that it grew like crazy I left it like that for a long time, after not being able to get the nitrate down to where I wanted I boosted up the light to where it needed to be and still didn't see any noticeable improvement.
I have an oceanic 150 trickle filter sump under my 75G African tank with a crap load of bio balls in it to keep the ammonia and nitrite under control with the 20+ fish it has in it. I thought that maybe on the pump side of the sump I could put a screen and LED's there. Maybe I can get better results with LED's?

[rleahaines]

Kerry,

Bio balls are notorious nitrate factories. Trickle filters are as well. They work to convert nitrite to nitrate, but then seem keep the nitrate around.

So then you need to use a algae scrubber to get rid of the nitrate. It may be that you would need even more wattage, flow rate and surface area to overcome the nitrate converted from the bioballs and trickle filter than what you would have to have for live rock and so on.

Thinking about the basics here

you convert ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate via the bio balls and trickle filter, then the nitrate builds up so you need the scrubber to get rid of the nitrate by exporting it in the form of grown algae taken out of the tank. Of course, water changes do this as well.

seem to me you have to balance the amount of time, flow rates of filters, lighting in the DT and scrubber and a bunch of other things.

Is running with bio balls and a trickle filter worth it?

[kerry]

I understand how bad the bio balls are but I dont have any other filter right now that would handle the bio load I have. By the most accurate count I have 26 Africans in a 75G tank to keep the peace and it pretty calm in there with all the over crowding. I will soon have a Screen on the FW and slowly ween the bio balls away.
I have 6 scrubbers running right now on my salt tanks. I have had a dual screen FW scrubber on my 150G before I swapped it to salt. I have had a tank since 1978 and know about the nitrogen cycle and understand the carbon cycle as well.
Thanks for the info and concern its well respected.

[SantaMonica]

Algae prefer ammonia over nitrate. So the growth of the algae will be less effective if the ammonia is already taken up by the bio balls.

[rleahaines]

Kerry,

I'm just speculating out loud a bit here. I have had Reef tanks for at least 10 years with semi successful results. Tried just about everything out there for N reduction until I bumped into the scrubber ideas and this site. Now I think I am getting somewhere. Finally.

With all of the focus on growing algae, perhaps we need to refocus a bit on using algae to export nitrate. I am working through getting my UAS up and running efficiently and effectively on my saltwater 29 GAL high tank. So far the UAS seems to work well for Nitrate control, but I still have issues with Phosphate levels.

I'm harvesting as much algae from the DT as the scrubber every week.

My plan is to upgrade the UAS to LED's and blast away with light and water movement so the scrubber is the main user of N and P.

I am very impressed with the work many of the folks are doing with their tanks ... and I am learning something new every day.

[kerry]

This is a great site and has a wealth of information to learn. There are many bright minds here a well. I have two UAS scrubbers right now that I am focusing on. One on my 10G and one on my 150G both are SW. I have a 40G SW with a waterfall scrubber and my redsea kit does not detect any nutrients (N or P) so I am working to get my UAS to the same level. I found out about scrubbers many years ago and shrugged them off as snake oil due to all the pressure from other reefers who thought they were junk. So about three years ago a built one (it was a huge secrete) and only came out of the closet about a year and a half ago when I found this site and needed some help to get it right. Even here I didnt let on about my secrete scrubber in fear of persecution from other sites knowing I had one already. Anyway, what fool I was!!!!!!!!!! My tanks are better then ever now and I dont change water!!!! Here I was free to ask question and post about my newly built scrubber that was working so much better then the secrete one LOL.
I have found that my waterfall handles N and P but others find they still have P with the waterfall, I only have P (.050PPM) with my 150G UAS and elevated N (20PPM). There are a few of us out there testing dosing potassium to help export the P. So there are great hopes out there just around the corner. We are glad you are here for the ride. Please keep us updated on your scrubber and please post responses and questions as well. Do you have pics of your scrubber? We would love to see them.
Also you might want to reduce the hours your DT lights are on so it does not compete with the scrubber.

[kerry]

Algae prefer ammonia over nitrate. So the growth of the algae will be less effective if the ammonia is already taken up by the bio balls.
Correct, but I dont want to make any drastic changes and loose any Africans. So when I start the scrubber I will ween back the balls as I see growth, I figure in a months time I can be bio ball free.

[ruddybop]

Ok it's been a while for me posting and I have had great algae growth with 138 cfl watts , but my nitrates still climb to 80ppm, but never over 80. my screen is 9 x 14 on a 220 fresh water. 11 large fish.

I have downsized my stock from 22 fish total.

2 oscars
2 dempseys
4 cats
1 iridescent
1 convict
1 pleco
1 firemouth

I finally got my supplies for my led light system.

1 ---- 8-1/2" x 13" heat sink from an old burned up car amp .. free
2 ---- 4 120mm computer fans from old discarded computers .. free
3 ---- 3 LPC-35-700 constant current drivers .. $ 63.00
4 ---- 50pc red 660nm 3w led .. $ 37.00
5 ---- 10pc blue 440nm 3w led .. $ 8.69
6 ---- 2nd heat sink 7"x 13" from another burned up amp .. free
$ 109.68 total so far

Her are some pics of the items I have. Now I get to solder all the goodies together...

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[ruddybop]

Ok... I'm starting to wire this thing up with LPC-35-700 current driver. I have 14 led's for each driver. I have one of 3 sets done and hooked up the driver. It is very bright oh yes. I noticed the blue is more intense than the red. Is there a resistor you can put inline to calm the blue down a little. Or should I just use a diffuser on the blue led's.

And I looked but I thought I saw somewhere about 14 led's used with this driver.... I sure would hate to blow out these led's.

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[Garf]

Wear protective equipment when you fire that baby up, oh yeah!

[Ace25]

Just to give you a little piece of mind, I run 14 LEDs off one of those drivers, 6 reds (OSRAM 660nm) + 1 blue (Cree Royal Blue) per side. It has worked perfect from day 1 for me.

One thing I noticed about your build though is the LEDs used. They appear to be 'china' LEDs, especially if you got 50 reds for under $1ea. If that is the case I would expect the spectrum out of those reds to be in the 620nm range, not 660nm like they are sold, just speaking from experience.

[ruddybop]

Garf... I have sun glasses.... :)

Ace... Thanks for the reply. Yes I bought the cheap China ones. I did do some reading about buying led's that are from the same bin so they match. I'll play around with them a while and see how they work..... all I know is that these some beaches are bright......

[Floyd R Turbo]

I wire the blues in parallel to knock them down to 1/2 power or else they photo-inhibit the growth.

Like this

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/00%20Algae%20Scrubbers/DIY%20LED/IMG_0294.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/00%20Algae%20Scrubbers/DIY%20LED/IMG_0295.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/00%20Algae%20Scrubbers/DIY%20LED/IMG_0298.jpg

Blues at 1/2 power

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/00%20Algae%20Scrubbers/DIY%20LED/IMG_0299.jpg

[ruddybop]

Ah ha.... Excellent Floyd... Thanks I will try that and let you know how it works....

[ruddybop]

So..... I have it all wired up with the blue parallel and then series with the red.... I still think they are brighter. I was thinking what if I went three blue led's parallel to get that milliamps down a little.. ?

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[Floyd R Turbo]

Yep that would be fine too.

[ruddybop]

Well. I hooked three in parallel and now they are to low. I need to do some configuring and either put a resistor in parallel or use a diffuser.

[ruddybop]

Ah ha..... A 10 ohm resistor in parallel did the job... In the pic I hooked one up to the left section and the blue isn't so intense.

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[ruddybop]

So... I wanted to come up with some type of light fixture that was neat in appearance.

I had an old cash drawer that had a black plastic insert and that worked great for the light fixture housing.
Next I found a piece of aluminum with a wood look on one side to give the light some style. Bent it up to my measurements.
And then i found an old Emerson back light TV. These have a light difusers that reflects light evenly through the led screen. Perfect.
2pc --- 120mm fans, cut some holes for the air/heat to blow out and added some fan filters.

All I have left is the power supply box to make and wire it in.

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