6x4x2 ats/sand bed

[nige]

finally got round to building a ats was running bio pellets/pearls but run into problems with cyano gha and bryopsis no3 always reads 0 and po4 0.015 could be lower as last three colours on the d+d kit are hard to tell apart run extra po4 reactor to bring po4 down this brought the algae well down and what was left was dying but cyano got worse so decided to do something different and here are the results

[Garf]

Hello nige - any particular reason you chose this design ? Most other people are going small with UAS or waterfalls, but you've gone HUGE with a one sided horizontal ! It must be quite noisy and I'm pretty confident you ain't got the right screen material or enough flow or enough light. Perhaps Kerry could help you with this because he runs a horizontal.

[SantaMonica]

Don't forget to lay your roughed up plastic canvas over the plexiglass :)

[Floyd R Turbo]

Very interesting. You need reflectors on your CFLs, you're losing 70% of the light without them. Also I would put roughed-up plastic canvas on top of the acrylic, the acrylic itself will not hold algae very well because it is difficult to rough it up sufficiently - it's just not the ideal substrate.

On the size & capacity, just for reference: the plates look like about 12" each, total of 48" in length? So you've got 576 sq in of scrubbing substrate, divide by 4 for non-vertical gives you 144, divide by 12 gives you roughly 12 cubes/day of capacity. For that you would need 144 watts of lighting if it were a vertical scrubber, 1.5-2x that for non-vertical, so ideally you're looking at a minimum of about 216 watts and as much as 288 watts of light to get that 12 cube/day capacity. It looks like you have 4 x 23w or maybe 32w so you're about 100-120W or about half as much as the minimum, so I would say you should be able to feed about 5 or 6 cubes/day with this scrubber, and that's if you get good wide reflectors in there to throw all of the light on to the screen. Without that, your filtration capability drops way down, probably only 1-2 cubes/day.

With that low of a light level, you might also have a hard time getting the green algae to grow, because you need a lot of intensity to get that going.

Just food for thought, it's always good to know what to expect and what to watch out for. With N and P that low to begin with, you might start getting some green as long as you don't feed too much before it gets going, but only if you get reflectors installed. So that is the first thing I would do.

[nige]

This was after the first week mostly brown slimy stuff but starting to green underneath

[nige]

Very interesting. You need reflectors on your CFLs, you're losing 70% of the light without them. Also I would put roughed-up plastic canvas on top of the acrylic, the acrylic itself will not hold algae very well because it is difficult to rough it up sufficiently - it's just not the ideal substrate.

On the size & capacity, just for reference: the plates look like about 12" each, total of 48" in length? So you've got 576 sq in of scrubbing substrate, divide by 4 for non-vertical gives you 144, divide by 12 gives you roughly 12 cubes/day of capacity. For that you would need 144 watts of lighting if it were a vertical scrubber, 1.5-2x that for non-vertical, so ideally you're looking at a minimum of about 216 watts and as much as 288 watts of light to get that 12 cube/day capacity. It looks like you have 4 x 23w or maybe 32w so you're about 100-120W or about half as much as the minimum, so I would say you should be able to feed about 5 or 6 cubes/day with this scrubber, and that's if you get good wide reflectors in there to throw all of the light on to the screen. Without that, your filtration capability drops way down, probably only 1-2 cubes/day.

With that low of a light level, you might also have a hard time getting the green algae to grow, because you need a lot of intensity to get that going.

Just food for thought, it's always good to know what to expect and what to watch out for. With N and P that low to begin with, you might start getting some green as long as you don't feed too much before it gets going, but only if you get reflectors installed. So that is the first thing I would do.
I have reflectors over them the acrylic is rough as I used course sand paper on it and then scoured it up with a hole saw I do not feed heavy as my stock is not that high for the size of system I have apart from maybe a shoal of chromis no more stock will be added the scrubber get's a lot of light spill from the display as it sit above the tank and the overflow goes directly into the display tank I'am still running a skimmer and po4 remover until the plates get going area is 36"x10" so that's 360"sq lights are only 11w each but as I said the plates get a lot of light without them from the main display lights but do plan to put bigger bulbs in just had these laying around and tried them

[Floyd R Turbo]

Ahhh...reflectors...you were holding out on us LOL

[Garf]

Be even better with proper screen material. I tried scrubbing a while ago with roughed up Perspex covered with drilled holes and it never got thick, then I gave up. It wasn't till I used the proper canvas screening that I had success. I also have tried lower light levels than recommended and that wasn't able to get thick algae either. Hope yours really takes off.

[nige]

It's not horizontal they are at 40degrees actually not that noisy as the water level is just below where the water run of the plates as for screen material had trouble finding stuff may have a look on ebay but I have roughed them up a lot

[nige]

Ahhh...reflectors...you were holding out on us LOL

No holding out lol first picture was taken the day I built it reflectors went on next day.

[nige]

Be even better with proper screen material. I tried scrubbing a while ago with roughed up Perspex covered with drilled holes and it never got thick, then I gave up. It wasn't till I used the proper canvas screening that I had success. I also have tried lower light levels than recommended and that wasn't able to get thick algae either. Hope yours really takes off.where did you get the proper canvas?

[Garf]

Don't tell anyone but got mine from a knitting shop ( ssshhh ). If you eBay " 7 count canvas " you'll strike gold.

[nige]

I had a cousin put himself through uni by knitting lol thanks for the info

[nige]

Just thought I would put up a picture of my tank

[SantaMonica]

It's actually is horizontal from a scrubbing standpoint. If algae were to grow thick, it would make an algae island and block flow. But without plastic canvas you won't have to worry about it getting thick :)

Since it's already built, might as well use it. It you do ever rebuild it though, you'll be able to shrink it down to the size of a book.

[nige]

I'am using a 4000lh pump would this be to much flow? probably losing a bit with head height and plumbing though

[SantaMonica]

Tank looks like you'll feed 3-4 cubes. Unless you feed the corals too.

[kerry]

Very nice tank!

[Garf]

Very nice tank!

Looks like another TANG aholic !

[kotlec]

I have used both : plexi and proper screen. Have to say - did not notice any noticeable difference since plexi is really good roughed.

[Garf]

I have used both : plexi and proper screen. Have to say - did not notice any noticeable difference since plexi is really good roughed.

You get nowhere near the turbulence on the plexiglas that you get with plastic canvas, as I see it this evolves a stronger algae being propagated which is less likely to give way as the algae gets less light from increased thickness.

[nige]

Tank looks like you'll feed 3-4 cubes. Unless you feed the corals too.feed a mixture of pellet flake nori and cubes close to 4 cubes a day I would say corals get fed twice a week but hoping with the scrubber wont have to feed as much if at all:)


Very nice tank!Thanks


Looks like another TANG aholic !Guilty as charged


I have used both : plexi and proper screen. Have to say - did not notice any noticeable difference since plexi is really good roughed.Will give this a while to see how it work's


You get nowhere near the turbulence on the plexiglas that you get with plastic canvas, as I see it this evolves a stronger algae being propagated which is less likely to give way as the algae gets less light from increased thickness.I had a scrubber running for a while on my 5/2/2 with plexiglas scoured it with a tile cutter in a grid pattern about 2mm apart and sanded and algae used to get about 3/4inch thick and was well attached but can see your point about turbulence on the plastic cavas

[Floyd R Turbo]

Have you considered doing something like jnad did a while back? I would have to dig up the thread, but he took a plastic canvas screen and put it in the oven or something then smashed aragonite onto it. Didn't work real well since it was double-sided and blocked the light or something but with single-sided plex sheets you could take a MAPP or Propane torch to it to get it soft, then sprinkle sand onto is and roll in down hard with a rolling pin, then heat up again and roll it again so that the sand bonds into the surface. That would be really rough and a good substrate for growth.

[nige]

that sounds like a good idea will get more plexi and have a go at that thanks

[Floyd R Turbo]

Actually I would just take one of your panels that you have now and try it just as a test. Pick a smaller panel, and try it out for a few weeks or more, if it works, you can just do one panel at a time.

[nige]

will give that ago thanks

[nige]

just a wee update starting to get some more growth and more green and my cyano is gone but some corals have browned a bit

[SantaMonica]

You are seeing the limitations of a horizontal screen, no matter how big.

[kodiak66]

You are seeing the limitations of a horizontal screen, no matter how big.

I see your point..

[nige]

Sorry guys what point am I missing starting to get green algae is that not what I'am trying to achieve! tested my po4 today 0.015 and no3 0 all cyano gone as is any sign of GHA in the display, so what limitations are you on about?

[SantaMonica]

I was talking about the brown corals, but if things are getting better then let it run.

[kerry]

Horizontal do work, its just that they have to be very big to do what a much smaller water fall type lit on both sides does. I have a horizontal that I have been experimenting with for over a year and it works just fine but compared to my water fall types it very limited. Nothing wrong with it at all, it serves a purpose and gets the job done but its just slow. I notice my glass does not stay as clean and the nutrients take longer to go down after cleaning compared to the two sided unit. But it does work and I like to experiment with it so seeing its on a tank I raise pods in there is no big loss if I make its capacity worse while testing different things on it.
I say learn all you can about your horizontal then take that knowledge and build you a waterfall type when you are ready. Thats how I started to, if you can make a horizontal work a water fall type will be a huge success.

[nige]

I was talking about the brown corals, but if things are getting better then let it run.
Most of my corals are fine I have a green eflo that has turned a bit brown but a green acro that has got more green and looks better than ever perhaps some corals are more sensitive than others to low levels of po4 I also have a hystrix that is meant to be pink but never has no matter how low po4 is.

[nige]

Have observed some changes in the tank since using the scrubber lps seem to be doing better and sps have seem to taken a growth spurt my hystrix in the last few days is covered in new growth tips:)

[kerry]

Its awesome!!! Many folks see this, I did to.

[nige]

Been a while guys after having a bit of a set back with a pump failing and the scrubber running dry then when things looked like they were back on track again trip went on the pumps but light stayed on so fried scrubber again after a bit of rewiring everything is fine now a things are starting to look real good here are a few pics

[SantaMonica]

Nice.