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jnad
07-07-2012, 07:26 AM
Hello!
I have an new idea for feeding the algaescreen with water flow and air, i have thinking of this for a while and have now run some tests with my prototype unit. The unit is not tested for how it will be growing algae, just for water flow and air hudraulics. The tests is looking very good and i have hope for this design.

This prototype scrubber is not an UAS, but it is an DAS (downflow algae scrubber) with GAC option, if this works as i hope it could possibly be a good filter as algae scrubber and GAC filtration if wanted. The prototype scrubber is siply hung on the glass of the tank, scrubber unit inside tank and light unit outside the tank.

My main goal with this new idea is to get rid of the air pump, so of course this prototype do not use any air pump to feed the screen with air:)

The prototype is an HOG version, but this way to feed screen with water flow and air can probably be used in on top of tank scrubbers, in sump scrubbers, on top of sump scrubbers and of cause in tank scrubbers.

I will post some videos of the prototype running later this weekend, but here is some pictures of the unit:

The scrubber consists of three main parts, on the picture the inside tank unit to the left, and light unit to the right, and spraybar in the middle. As you see the both units uses reflectors to get the most out of the lightning.
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This picture shows the in tank unit ready mounted with spray bar, filter pads and you can see the small powerhead that is used for the test:
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On this picture you can see the inside unit running, no screen is placed inside the unit, this test is just for looking at water flow and air:
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Hope this idea works, and that you like it.

Jnad

kerry
07-07-2012, 07:45 AM
I can not view the pics!!

Bobba
07-07-2012, 08:46 AM
Cannot view pics either. Please repost as this sounds very interesting.

jnad
07-07-2012, 09:06 AM
Pictures should be fixed now

kotlec
07-07-2012, 10:10 AM
I see pics , but do not understand how it works completely :(

kodiak66
07-07-2012, 11:25 AM
using pump to push water downward as if it was GAC but you plan to light direct one side for algae scrubbin'???

jnad
07-07-2012, 11:55 AM
Hello!

Here is an quick video i made just no in a hurry trying to explain how the scrubber works, damm i am good in English :) A couple of bears :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtGczi1r7L8&feature=g-upl

Video when scrubber running in tank posting tomorrow.

jnad

kerry
07-07-2012, 01:51 PM
I see, very nice Sir. I wonder if the part in the tank would be better upside down?? This way the flow would be the same. I think at the top the flow will fight against the air. This may however cause great turbulence and be a benefit. Test will let you know.

jnad
07-07-2012, 02:06 PM
Thanks Kerry!

The spraybar has to bee on the top or it will not make any bubbles. This way it makes bubbles with no airpump and with no venturi/ejector. Looking forward to test this with a screen.

Jnad

I see, very nice Sir. I wonder if the part in the tank would be better upside down?? This way the flow would be the same. I think at the top the flow will fight against the air. This may however cause great turbulence and be a benefit. Test will let you know.

jnad
07-08-2012, 04:54 AM
Hello!

Here is an video of my DAS (downflow algae scrubber) running inside the tank.

The scrubber using no air pump or venturi, just standard small powerhead.

I dont now if this scrubber will be growing algae, but i dont se why it not should grow, it has light, flow and air. If it grows algae the pos with this design i think is:

- Silent running
- Very god flow
- No clogging of air stone, the spraybar is located over the waterline.
- Posibility to use GAC if wanted
- Very easy to clean screen or scrubber box when needed.

This is just an prototype, but if it works good i will continue to work with this design beacuse i am specially interested in these inside tank scrubbers. It would be great to be able to run a saltwater tank just as easy as freshwater when it comes to filtration.

Video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7e3Xqa5oJK0

Jnad

kodiak66
07-08-2012, 01:40 PM
Awesome!

kotlec
07-09-2012, 01:44 AM
Now I got the idea of making bubbles, but still cant imagine how it can be silent. Sprays should be super loud , when hitting water to push it to the bottom... No ?
Magic is here.

jnad
07-09-2012, 09:27 AM
Hello!

It is actually very silent, i have now made a lid to put on the top of the scrubber and i have to be close to the aquarium to her some sound. It makes very little sound and the type of sound it makes is not ugly, just some hissing water sound.

Jnad


Now I got the idea of making bubbles, but still cant imagine how it can be silent. Sprays should be super loud , when hitting water to push it to the bottom... No ?
Magic is here.

kodiak66
07-09-2012, 11:31 PM
I really like that idea, and the water noise may not bother me, I am deaf :)

kotlec
07-10-2012, 12:58 AM
Wonderful

What distance from water is spraybar?

jnad
07-10-2012, 07:46 AM
The distanse between spraybar and watersurface is 1,0 - 1,5 cm

jnad
07-11-2012, 04:58 AM
Hello!

If you are considering to try this, some tips:

- it is best to use a adjustable pump so it is possible to adjust flow.
- Make it possible to adjust distance between spraybar and watersurface. For example make it possible to move the scrubber upp/down
- When making the spraybar make several spraybars with different holes so you can try out the best.
- Make the scrubber box longer than you think you need, and then cut it to the right length after you have tested out the hints above. If the scrubber is cut to short you will have problems with bubbles escaping to the tank.

Jnad



Wonderful

What distance from water is spraybar?



Wonderful

What distance from water is spraybar?

jnad
07-14-2012, 05:20 AM
Hello!

Here is just a short uppdate video of my downflow algaescrubber, have done som changes with lid on scrubber:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OnUqGb_t_KI

kotlec
07-14-2012, 07:41 AM
How is it growing ?

jnad
07-14-2012, 12:09 PM
It looks promising, the growth has promising progress so far. It grows green, and it seem too have a mutch brighter green color than my previous scrubbers, i dont now why. I will post som growth uppdate pictures in about 4 days, it is summer holiday here and i am going on a trip for a few days with my family, i post some pictures when i am coming back.

Jnad

How is it growing ?

kotlec
07-14-2012, 12:23 PM
Have good trip

kerry
07-14-2012, 08:28 PM
Enjoy the time off!!

jnad
07-18-2012, 12:10 PM
Hello!

Just have come back from my trip so i have not managed to make an video of the growth, but i will post a video of the growth tomorrow.

But i do have some pictures and video that show that i also testing a new screen setup with this scrubber.

The idea of the ”downflow algaescrubber” does grow algae, it is just another way to feed the screen with air and water flow. But this new screen setup is what i am really interested to test out.

As you can see on the pictures and the video the screen is placed in line with the light. The idea with this screen setup is that the screen hopefully would bee two sided with an effective use of reflecktors and just one light source.

This screen setup will also ”if it works” possible to change the screen size some by remowing or add screen ”modules”. And it will be possible to make very small scrubbers.

The screen size in my small test DAS scrubber is : 1,37inch x 4,7inch x 4 screens = 25 square inches. Yes i know, the screen size is waaay to big, but i was not sure how to calculate screen size with this setup, and i am going to reduce the screen to 12 square inches tomorrow. I do think with the use of good reflectors and proper light setup, this scrubber will be working as two sided only with one light source.

Here are the pictures, as you can see there is 4 screens in the scrubber. There is 5 holes in the spraybar that blows air and water in between the screens.
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This video is taken the day the scrubber was started, Sunday the 8-july
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AgPAV84AJM&feature=plcp

This video i have made a lid on the scrubber, Monday the 9-july
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPh5otmpi9c&feature=plcp

I will be posting growth video tomorrow or day after.

jnad

SantaMonica
07-18-2012, 12:18 PM
If you look back at the waterfall designs, you'll see several multiple screens stacked like this, with lights on the sides.

jnad
07-18-2012, 12:20 PM
I take a look at them, did they work?
If you look back at the waterfall designs, you'll see several multiple screens stacked like this, with lights on the sides.

SantaMonica
07-18-2012, 01:29 PM
Not as well... nobody kept them.

Wopadobop
07-18-2012, 11:52 PM
Interesting. following along.

kotlec
07-19-2012, 05:50 AM
Not as well... nobody kept them.

I thing problem is in angle that light is falling on the screen. It is parallel to screen surface , when we want the opposite.

jnad
07-19-2012, 08:07 AM
Yes i agree, the angle with light going parallell to the screen is probably not the best. I am not saying that my idea of screen setup is better than the regular setup with the light pointing directly on the flat side of screen, but i like to test new things. There is a couple of differences with my scrubber compared with the earlier ones with this kind of screen setup though. My scrubber is very small, with god reflectors in all directions and the screen modules is only 1,37 inches wide. It will be interesting to see how it grows, of course the growth will be most close to the light, but it looks like it fills in. Difficult to see, i will post growth uppdate tomorrow.

Jnad

jnad
07-20-2012, 12:14 PM
Hello!

It is still summer holiday here and i have not had time enough to clean the scrubber and take pictures of the growth as i intended to do. But i have made a short video of the growth when scrubber is running in the tank, it is maybe difficult to see, but it wil give an impression.

I dont now about the new screen setup, but i think the idea with the powerhead and the spraybar work.

I will clean the screen tomorrow, and take som pictures of the growth then.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SOx-TOEsncw

Jnad

jnad
07-21-2012, 10:10 AM
Hello!

Finally had the time to clean the scrubber today, here are the update pictures for 12 days of growth. The screen area is now reduced to the half size (12 square inches). It looks like the scrubber is growing two sided so i hope this screen area will be capable of filtering one cube pr day.

The picure with the toobrush showing the small size of the scrubber, this small scrubber had sreen size of 24 square inches. So if it works over time it
is possible to make really small "in tank" scrubbers.

The pictures of the screens laying out on the white board is showing both sides of the screen modules.

29622963296429652966

jnad

Garf
07-21-2012, 01:44 PM
Hi Jnad - the green seems to be down one side on each section. Is the green at the back of the scrubber, ie furthest away from the light ?

jnad
07-21-2012, 02:00 PM
Hmm, good question.

Unfortunately I did not notice if the green was in the back or front of scrubber when i cleaned it. I am trying to remember, and by looking at the pictures over and over again i actually think the green was in the back of the scrubber.

Garf
07-21-2012, 02:22 PM
No problem Jnad - I ll just wait a couple of weeks, then ask again !!!

jnad
07-21-2012, 03:06 PM
The green was in back of the scrubber, yellow in front. It seems to add up with my earlier experience with the leds that i am using. The leds is very close placed to eatch other causing the closest algae to burn or to get yellow. If you see closely to the pictures you see the algarve is growing yellow in front, you can see some green back with the reflectors.

Or of course wait a week or two :)

Garf
07-21-2012, 03:22 PM
I'm sure your right. It fits in with lots of other peoples experiences too. Thanks.

jnad
07-24-2012, 02:40 PM
Hmm, looking into the scrubber now, looks like it growing the most closest to the light.


I'm sure your right. It fits in with lots of other peoples experiences too. Thanks.

Garf
07-24-2012, 03:08 PM
Oh !!!

jnad
07-25-2012, 11:23 AM
Hello!

Here is an uppdate video of 4 lightperiods since last cleaning
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JiVUDfKm7oQ

Garf: looks like it is growing more even then i thought when last posting.

Jnad

Garf
07-25-2012, 11:58 AM
I know it's gotta be on here somewhere but I've looked at this thread twice and can't find how you are lighting it. I must be having a mental block. Some decent hairy growth you got there. Great test Jnad. I like experiments. Keep up the good work.

jnad
07-25-2012, 12:31 PM
Just using one unit of this cheap leds without optic:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-3-x-3W-Red-Grow-LED-650-660nm-w-Driver-Heat-Sink-12VDC-Input-Aquarium-/220866293590?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336ca82f56#ht_1564wt_1204

It is labeled 3x3W , but i think they are mutch less than that. Maybe it is 3w leds, but i dont think the unit of 3 pieces use more than 3w tougether.

Dont think this leds are ideal beacuse of the leds config on the aluminium plate. I am going to get something else for my nexst scrubber.
Jnad

Garf
07-25-2012, 12:45 PM
Thanks Jnad. I was looking at trying these, but now you reckon they are not much good, I won't bother. Thanks again.

jnad
07-27-2012, 08:19 AM
The light in my scrubber have this week been 18 hours on, it looks like the algae is growing most at the end of every light period. There is also no burn spots like i have had on my previous slim line scrubber, and i am using the same led units and light diffuser. Now it looks like it is the opposite then beafore the algae is now growing the most right in front of the led unit.

I have one more of this led units laying around, do you think the screen can handle one more led unit?

Any thoughts?

Jnad

jnad
07-29-2012, 09:32 AM
Hello!

There is now 8 days sinse last cleaning, have decided to let it grow some days more just to see what happen so i dont have any growth pictures of the cleaning as i posted beafore, but here is a short video of the screen with 8 days of growth.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rMz467uKTzU

I think it is growing better than my previous scrubbers beacuse it is two sided (with one light) and it have better flow.

I will post pictures of screen when cleaning in a couple of days.

Jnad

kotlec
07-29-2012, 11:19 AM
Does spray bar is covered with sponge on both sides ? I cant see in this video .

Floyd R Turbo
07-29-2012, 11:20 AM
Jnad what about angling the screens slightly and putting a mirror in the back panel to get more light bouncing around?

jnad
07-29-2012, 12:37 PM
I dont use a sponge in the top of the scrubbber, after making a lid there was no need for a sponge in the top.There are only two black pvc plates in he top of the scrubber, they are the black colored you see in the last posted pictures. One are placed in the back and one in the front of the scrubber, they function as screen holders and protect the spraybar from light.

It is difficult to see on the posted pictures an difficult to explain, i will take some pictures of it when cleaning the screen next time.

Jnad
Does spray bar is covered with sponge on both sides ? I cant see in this video .

jnad
07-29-2012, 12:40 PM
There is already a reflector in the back panel, all the sides inside the scrubber has reflectors. But it is a good idea to try angeling the screens slightly, i might just try that. Tanks Floyd

Jnad

Jnad what about angling the screens slightly and putting a mirror in the back panel to get more light bouncing around?

jnad
07-30-2012, 09:58 AM
Hello!

Here are som uppdate pictures of 9 days of growth.

Garf: I dont think there are mutch difference in growth front or bak screen.

kotlec: I hope the first tree pictures answer the question about no using sponge in top of scrubber, there are just 2 pvc plates that function as screen holders and blocking light to the spraybar. In the first picture i have only removed the top lid on the scrubber

301630153014301730133018

jnad

kotlec
07-30-2012, 11:02 AM
Thanks for pics. Now I see how you made it.
Do you have any recommendations considering flow per centimeter of spraybar and how many holes ? How important this is ?

jnad
07-31-2012, 10:21 AM
Sorry, i have no experience from other DAS scrubbers other than the one i am using now so i have difficulties giving recommandations. I can just tell you how mine scrubber is: i am using 1cm between the holes, the scrubber was made to take 4 screens so it has 5 holes in spraybar and the holes is precisely align between the screens and on the outer sides. The holes in the spraybar is 1,5 cm, i tested also 2,5cm size holes, but 1,5 was better mfor mine scrubber.The pump is labeled 450 liter pr hour but it is regulated down almost to the minimum, i think it is importent to have good pressure in the spraybar.

You have to test some different setups, any changes in the scrubber box design will need different pump, spraybar holes and so on.

Jnad

kotlec
07-31-2012, 12:02 PM
I was hoping to save some time using your experience. :D
How big is your spray bar to acommodate 1,5 cm holes ?
How many holes would you do for 10cm long sparybar to start experimenting ?

jnad
07-31-2012, 02:27 PM
Sorry, my mistake, the holes in the spraybar is 1,5mm, not cm as i wrote:)

If you are making a scrubber with "normal" screen config, for example a one sided screen that is 10 cm wide and with spraybar 10 cm long? Then i would try one hole pr cm, and i would make two spraybars to test, one with 1,5mm holes and one with 2,5mm holes.

Jnad

kotlec
07-31-2012, 03:01 PM
OK thanks

jnad
08-08-2012, 01:18 PM
Hello!

My DAS and nano tank is now discontinued, i have ordered an ADA tank for a "Holland" type of planted fresh water setup.

When the DAS was discontinued it was growing very well green hair algae, i am very satisfied with this scrubber but i dont now if it is any benefits using a scrubber on a high end planted fresh water tank with C02.

Maybe someone can help me out here, is there any benefits running a scrubber with a heavy planted fresh water tank? Or wil the scrubber just compete with the plants?

Jnad