UAS air flow vs. Water Flow

[rleahaines]

From reading the results of UAS tests here and comparing them to the waterfall scrubbers it appears that there may be some kind of correlation to the amount of water flow through and over the scrubber and the amount of Nitrate and Phosphate usage by the algae.

Just running bubbles up a scrubber by itself doesn't seem to work as well as water flow????

A smaller tank with a HOG .5 may get enough water flow caused by bubbles, but a larger one may not using the surface area calculations and air flow rules that SM has posted.

Just relying on the air to push the water past the screen as well as the bubbles may not be quite enough.

Obviously you can have quite a bit of water flow if the area is constricted enough - holes at the bottom, going out the top. After all this is the concept that powers undergravel filters and also with air stone driven skimmers.

Would a venturi pumping water into a constricted area - with an air hose attached - going up past and through a screen -and out the top similar to a skimmer work better for larger tanks?

[Garf]

This, in effect would be an upside down waterfall with bubbles;

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1838-Co2-turbo&p=19886&viewfull=1#post19886

But with less light, and less relative flow. I am pretty sure it'll work though. My waterfall with bubbles does !

[kerry]

That illustration is how my HOB UAS works. I hope to have it replaced with a waterfall type I am building but need to finish it. This might happen today!!

[Garf]

That illustration is how my HOB UAS works. I hope to have it replaced with a waterfall type I am building but need to finish it. This might happen today!!

Come on Kerry, put some bubbles on the waterfall and give me some more C02 experience to work with, not done my screen any harm.

[kerry]

I thought about making a venturi hole in the supply pipe and see if bubbles in the scrubber supply line makes a difference.

[RkyRickstr]

I did this for a little while Garf,, I fed it from my Overflow, and for some reason It sucked air and i had bubbles all over the screen 24/7. I can tell you growth was awsome.. however... it always was.. so I can't tell for sure if the bubbles helped or not.

[Garf]

I did this for a little while Garf,, I fed it from my Overflow, and for some reason It sucked air and i had bubbles all over the screen 24/7. I can tell you growth was awsome.. however... it always was.. so I can't tell for sure if the bubbles helped or not.

Exactly my problem, always had great growth, gonna post some pics on Tuesday of this cycles growth and do a comparison of waterfall section compared to underwater section (where the screen enters the water).

Kerry, I just wedged a rigid airline into the pump intake, the suction provides enough bubbles without an air pump. I also put a cocktail stick in the open end of the airline which acts as a silencer !

Rleahaines - sorry for the thread hijack. Will be good to see what results you get.

[kerry]

I was not going to use an air pump, it will be like yours but about 12" before the screen.

[rleahaines]

No problem.

I think by optimizing the water flow plus having air bubbles it should create great growth as well as great filtering.

I can see good growth of algae happening in a UAS with the air bubbles, but if the water from the system is not run across the algae enough it may not do as good a job as a waterfall scrubber.

Just looking at all the different parameters here.

Enough air supply to the algae to promote growth and add some carbon

adding additional air by an airstone or through a airline sucking it into a pump.

Light intensity

Using the rules of thumb that have been published here. I am putting together a light source with RED LED's [got them from Steve's LED's] based on what I see people doing here. One sided screen.

Circulation of the water through the scrubber and algae as it grows to get good filtering.

Using a magnum pump. Not just relying on the bubbles from air wand.



Proper size of screen vs. amount of feeding. I plan on a screen about 10 X 5 one sided with mirror on back side. At first I probably will only need to use about half of it so I will block the light on part of it. I tend to overfeed my system so I want a scrubber that will take care of the excess.


I have been using a UAS with good results, but not great ones. Having problems with the P.

When I get it up and running I will take some pictures and post them.

[sjmusic2]

This is exactly what I was trying to achieve by using my old seaclone skimmer for a UAS. The jury is still out on the viability of the unit, but not because of the bubbling which is actually quite good.

[rleahaines]

I now have it up and running - I recycled an old skimmer I had and set it up.

I put together a LED light source with 6 Deep Red 3W LED's and Two UltraViolet 3W LED's.[from Steve's LEDs] They are currently being driven from a driver I recycled from a 15 Watt LED array - which probably means that they are running at 15 Watts total or roughly 1.75 to 2 Watts per LED or 60% or so of the 3W spec.

The screen size works out to be about 8" X 5" or 40 sq inches. Single Sided This gives me roughly 2.5 watts per sq. inch - which I think is equivalent to 3 times that if I was using CFL - or 8 Watts per sq. Inch.

Is this underpowered as a light source or should I spring for a new driver to power these?

I was searching for the recommended amount of LED red lighting - I know it is on this site somewhere, but I couldn't find it. Please correct me if my math is off or if I need to make a change here.

[Garf]

Are the UV LEDs the 395nm type ?

[rleahaines]

No

They are the true violet ones

http://shop.stevesleds.com/3-Watt-True-Violet-LED-TrueViolet.htm

wavelength is 410 to 430 nm

[rleahaines]

I now have it up and running - I recycled an old skimmer I had and set it up.

I put together a LED light source with 6 Deep Red 3W LED's and Two UltraViolet 3W LED's.[from Steve's LEDs] They are currently being driven from a driver I recycled from a 15 Watt LED array - which probably means that they are running at 15 Watts total or roughly 1.75 to 2 Watts per LED or 60% or so of the 3W spec.

The screen size works out to be about 8" X 5" or 40 sq inches. Single Sided This gives me roughly 2.5 watts per sq. inch - which I think is equivalent to 3 times that if I was using CFL - or 8 Watts per sq. Inch.

Is this underpowered as a light source or should I spring for a new driver to power these?

I was searching for the recommended amount of LED red lighting - I know it is on this site somewhere, but I couldn't find it. Please correct me if my math is off or if I need to make a change here.



I think I am a bit underpowered on the light source here. Looks like I am getting around .4 LED watts per sq. Inch - or roughly .8 to 1.2 equiv. CFL wattage. depending on how you rate the LED's vs. CFL

[SantaMonica]

I've been using 1/2 of the CFL watts. But it might be able to be as low as 1/4.

[Garf]

No

They are the true violet ones

http://shop.stevesleds.com/3-Watt-True-Violet-LED-TrueViolet.htm

wavelength is 410 to 430 nm

Cheers rleahaines. Looking at the sales blurb, sounds a bit contradictory to me, one bit sais how black light enhances fluorescence, the goes to say harmful uv is minimised, but they are one in the same thing. Black light is under 400nm so I guess there is a portion in the 390s. Be interesting to see your growth.

[Ace25]

The more you know.. ;)

http://glowinc.com/glow-in-the-dark/black-light.aspx

[rleahaines]

the red LEDs are

http://shop.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-ES-Deep-Red-3-Watt-LEDs-Luxeon-ES-Deep-Red.htm

supposedly 650 -660 nm.

[SantaMonica]

I'm using these...
http://ledgroupbuy.com/deep-red-660nm/

[kerry]

I have grown good algae with 1/4 LED wattage compared to CFL although the LED's had optics on them @ 90 degree's.

[rleahaines]

I have grown good algae with 1/4 LED wattage compared to CFL although the LED's had optics on them @ 90 degree's.

I'm going to see what develops in a week. Will post then with results.

[rleahaines]

Here is one weeks worth of growth.

I noticed that I am getting more growth where I have the Violet LED's - interesting.

To get it to work in my old skimmer I needed to split the screen into pieces.

Growth is dark green.

N = 0

P = 2 to 5 PPM going down.

[SantaMonica]

Looks good.

[rleahaines]

so far so good, Hair algae in tank seems to be slowly going away. Red Cyno has disappeared.

The scrubber is a bit noisy because of the air tube fed into the pump. I'm going to experiment a bit to see if I can reduce this.

Added some snails and a small damsel to the tank.

[rleahaines]

scraped algae off last night. Tested water. Nitrate at 0 Ph at .2 ppm so is going down.

I'm getting bright green algae on the glass, but not on the screen.

Running GFO and Carbon as well.

Still have hair algae, but not as much. Snails seem to be cleaning up red cynano.

My LED lights seem to have shorted out because of moisture.

How do you keep this from happening?

[rleahaines]

Update:

did some changes to the system. Now have new set of red and blue LED's as light source - using a plastic bottom from a salad mix I bought at the grocery store - works great as a splash shield.

The N is still at 0, P at about 0.2 - Hair algae is still in the DT but seems to not spread much and not growing back as much when I trim it back.

getting a Hanna Checker to use for lower levels of P so I can monitor it better. I am using carbon and GFO as well filtering the water.

Getting good dark green growth every week. Still not getting the crazy thick growth some are showing here.

I'll post some pics after I take some soon.

I have added more live rock to the system. Purchased some Xenia frags - idea is they will also soak up P in the system.

Rick

[SantaMonica]

Thick growth usually needs higher wattage or less nutrients.

[rleahaines]

I have 8 3W Phillips LED's for 24 total watts or equiv to 48 watts shining on a UAS through the wall of a glass aquarium - the distance between the LED's and the screen is about 3 inches - on a one sided screen that is 4" X 7" wide

I am currently feeding approx 1/2 cube twice per day or one cube per day of pellets, flake and sometimes frozen brine shrimp. I wet some down to see.

lights on 18 hours off 6 every day.

Cleaning usually once every 14 days or so. Getting dark green algae on screen - maybe 1/4 inch deep at most - I find lots of dark green sheets of algae on the glass as well which blocks some of the light - try to clean this off every 3 or 4 days.

The screen holes are basically filled with the algae, I scrape off as much as possible with scraper and brush when I clean.

As I said, N is at 0, P at 0.2 -

It has been running about a month in this configuration. I used the screen from an older waterfall scrubber that I ran for about 4 months.

I'm not complaining. Easy maintenance and has knocked out the Nitrate, just would like better growth and reduction of P without having to use GFO.

Rick

[SantaMonica]

Well as long as it's dark, you know you can increase watts or hours until you get yellow rubber.

[rleahaines]

Scraped the screen today, lots of growth, some bright green in one area, not quite yellow.

Got about a good handful of algae. I also have found that a piece of filter pad that I was using underneath the scrubber to position the bubble wand grew a whole lot of algae as well.

Just tossed this and put in a new piece. Could filter pads work as a scrubber screen? When full of algae, just toss and replace?

Algae in the DT seems to not be getting worse, too early yet to really see if it is getting better.

I am dosing kalkwasser and adding Purple Up to encourage coraline algae. I am seeing some what I think is green coraline growing here and there, some small purple spots etc.

[SantaMonica]

Pads will grow, but the thickness will cause internal light blockage and early die off compared to a flat screen.

[rleahaines]

Update:

running UAS - 8 X 5 inches 30 sq. inches. - 18 hours light a day with 6 red LED's 2 Blue. All LEDS running at about 2 watts - 3 inches apart roughly.

Getting good algae growth - Nitrates at 0 Phosphate continues to be lower - around .2 PPM -

I went away on vacation and kids fed fish. Overfeeding of course - when I got back I had a nice crop of hair algae and stringy strands of Briorisis [sp?]

getting back into low feeding and adjusting lighting in Display vs. hours of UAS lighting.

Xenia in tank is growing like crazy. Seems to like "dirty" water.

I feed about 1/2 to 1 "cube per day - so my screen may be a bit large. Right now It seems to be cleaning up the legacy of overfeeding.