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Garf
11-04-2012, 02:03 AM
Todays the day I start my Bacterial Scrubber. Gonna be simple to get experiment going;

1) clean skimmer and pump with HCL.
2) rough up screen in form it into a cylinder, to go neatly into the skimmer body. Perhaps heat it to form shape.
3) fix my air pump to the DIY co2 generator and feed skimmer with the enriched air.
4) put coarse filtration foam in collection cup so the the drain doesn't get blocked.
5) turn it on and see what happens.

Pictures later

kotlec
11-04-2012, 02:08 AM
Different thing come to mind, when I see "BS" first
:D

Garf
11-04-2012, 02:51 AM
Different thing come to mind, when I see "BS" first
:D

Your first thoughts may have been accurate. Only one way to find out though !

Garf
11-04-2012, 04:05 AM
Ok roughed up my screen, using my favoured method (steak knife);
http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/1c0f9b56cad2933307fcf57f5cd541fe.jpg (http://http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/1c0f9b56cad2933307fcf57f5cd541fe.jpg)

Feel a bit guilty about cleaning the pump and skimmer, after all, these critters are probably cleaning the water more than the skimming action. But gotta get rid so I can see what's going on inside, if anything.

Pump;
http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/d90ef336af12ba51c46e589b35fac927.jpg (http://http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/d90ef336af12ba51c46e589b35fac927.jpg)

Skimmer body;
http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/767384a5936e7eb305caa31ab7350b2b.jpg (http://http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/767384a5936e7eb305caa31ab7350b2b.jpg)

sklywag
11-04-2012, 08:18 AM
Science project. Cool.

Skimmer people would be very upset with you. And maybe even tell you you're going to kill your tank.

Garf
11-04-2012, 12:32 PM
Well, mop and bucket on standby. Connected up. PH drop of 0.1 at skimmer outlet but equalised in sump.
http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/ac7e82a9051f95d1eb3cbf9704f0e621.jpg (http://http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/ac7e82a9051f95d1eb3cbf9704f0e621.jpg)

Garf
11-07-2012, 02:19 PM
Quick update - this co2 injected skimmer is very effective at reducing the pH of the sump. Now the DIY generator is in full swing, the pH of the sump dropped to 7.6 (from 8.2). So now set the pH monitor to keep the pH of the sump at 7.9. Have tested the display and that's still at 8.2ish, so no worries there. This does mean that extra co2 is getting to my ATS screen, hopefully not enough to induce slime on the ATS screen though, I want it in the skimmer ! I have noticed that a few minutes after opening the cabinet doors to the sump, the pH goes up. The only reason I can see for this is that some of the Co2 is fizzing out the top of the skimmer and then sitting on the sump surface, when I open the doors this blows it off the sump, I'm open to ideas though.

kaskiles
11-07-2012, 07:17 PM
Feed the ATS directly with water from a calcium reactor setup with no media. The calcium reactor (or any inline CO2 injector) should use less CO2 by dissolving it more efficiently into the water than the skimmer; and don't give the CO2 enriched ATS feed water any exposure to the room air until it's on the ATS screen.

Garf
11-10-2012, 03:30 PM
Growing slime - its about 10mm in patches. Looks like the bacteria you get when dosing vodka. I wonder if it will skim out ?!?

Garf
11-11-2012, 02:02 AM
Now it's taken hold of the top third of the screen, this stuffs growing fast. Anyone know if I can just dissolve it in Hydrochloric acid and test for nitrate and phos ?

kaskiles
11-11-2012, 04:46 AM
I don't think you can just dissolve it in acid and test. There are some acid, heat, persulfate and/or UV digestion procedures that are used to do some conversion to measurable N and P; but I think those are more appropriate for a college/prof laboratory than a home.

Garf
11-11-2012, 04:55 AM
I don't think you can just dissolve it in acid and test. There are some acid, heat, persulfate and/or UV digestion procedures that are used to do some conversion to measurable N and P; but I think those are more appropriate for a college/prof laboratory than a home.

Thanks Kaskiles, thought it may have to be a job for someone with a white coat.

On another note, found this

http://www.nitrifying-bioreactor.com/pdf/Intl%20Publication%20-%20WJMB2009.pdf

Garf
11-11-2012, 05:22 AM
Nitrifying bacteria are classified as obligate chemo-lithotrophs. This simply means that they must use inorganic salts as an energy source, and generally cannot utilize organic materials. They must oxidize ammonia and nitrites for their energy, and fix inorganic carbon dioxide (CO2) to fulfill their carbon requirements. They are largely non-motile and must colonize surfaces such as gravel, sand or synthetic bio-media, for optimum growth. They secrete a sticky, slime matrix, which they use to attach themselves.

Is anyone using a low range ammonia test?

Garf
11-12-2012, 08:15 AM
Observations 12 nov 2012;
1) no skimming is taking place. Not a concern at the moment because I can never get this V2 to skim until the screen is on its second week of growth (today is day 5 of a new cycle)
2) sump pH 8.1, skimmer body pH 8.00
3) got lots of tiny particulates in the display. Researched some stuff on nitrifying bacteria amino acid, nitrogen and phos content and it seems like a very nutritional food source for things that will eat it. My black brittle star loves the bigger bits.

Garf
11-12-2012, 02:40 PM
Got major pH discrepancies. It's all over the show, especially when the ATS lights come on. Don't know if it's electromagnetic interference with the probe (wiring). Don't think DIY generation in a bottle, is the way to go. Buggar.

Edit - found out that one of my cfl bulbs had blown. Not sure how this affected the probe, but since I've replaced the bulb, no fluctuations.

Garf
11-14-2012, 09:24 AM
http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/e456238d7583fc2a38a5d210a7adb5c9.jpg (http://http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/e456238d7583fc2a38a5d210a7adb5c9.jpg)

SantaMonica
11-14-2012, 09:35 AM
Dino's.

Garf
11-14-2012, 09:40 AM
Skimable ? There not brown as they look on the pic, more white.

SantaMonica
11-14-2012, 12:05 PM
Anything organic you can see should be skimmable.

Garf
11-14-2012, 03:08 PM
Here is a screen that's been underneath my ATS screen (UAS like). It's been receiving flow and bubbles for a week in the sump lit by the same light that running my ATS. Does this suggest the UAS users should keep their pH up Or the importance of vigorous circulation? Green dino's pic;

http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/bbe9a169065a8893bed6eb6f3cc62d9a.jpg (http://http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/bbe9a169065a8893bed6eb6f3cc62d9a.jpg)

Garf
11-15-2012, 11:18 AM
Dino's for breakfast, lunch and tea, lovely;
http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/2448fa973b40ac3bfae3e74188729629.jpg (http://http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/2448fa973b40ac3bfae3e74188729629.jpg)

sabbath
11-15-2012, 12:12 PM
Nice, It looks like it is working!

Garf
03-30-2013, 02:55 AM
Bit of an update. Stopped dosing Co2 as the dino growth seemed to stop in the skimmer, but started to grow in the sump. As soon as I let the pH normalise, the dino growth stopped and it was promptly eaten by Asterina stars. I'm not beaten yet though. From what I'm learning about the scrubber, the lower pH may have liberated excess DOC, indirectly encouraging dino growth.

Since starting the phosphate precipitation test, it seems to me that running the scrubber at too high pH actually removed DOC instead of a net production. I also saw small dark cyano or dino (no indicative bubble production though) patches deleloping in the sump, just in the few days without screen aeration. Upon implementation of aeration the cyano/dino's vanished.

One benefit so far. The screen inside the skimmer looks like it improves skimmer efficiency, as it produces skimmate much more consistently now.

Next job is to chock the skimmer full of mesh material to increase surface area, run it at normalised pH, and make sure the scrubber grows at max efficiency (aerated, pH controlled to 8.2ish).

A bit of reading if your bored;

http://drs.nio.org/drs/bitstream/2264/41/1/Ramaiah_chap03.pdf

Garf
05-04-2013, 02:18 PM
I think this test may be back on. I'm pretty sure now that the dino growth in the skimmer mesh was related directly to the amount of organics given off by the algae screen (indirectly affected by the CO2 additions to the screen).Now I'm running the screen thinner, it seems as though lots of organics are being given off and should in my mind grow the slimy stuff again.