Help with a redesign on my scrubber system.

[djmatteo]

I have been failing at scrubbing for the better part of 6 months, I have tried various sizes boxes and screens and am just not getting good growth I see everywhere else. My latest venture was with some chinese LEDs and I am literally getting -no- growth with 15 watts of LED at 3-4" away from the screen. I am not handy with saws and what not but if I have a plan I have people who will help me out. So I finally would like to set a plan in action, and get this done.

I want to make an overflow fed scrubber that sits on a 55 gallon tank, and is powered by LED.

I feed at least 1 cube daily, but usually 1 cube and a couple pinches. I would assume with a good running scrubber I will feed coral and fish more so my estimated screen size will be 24 inches, lit on both sides.

Initially I was going to go a little bigger screen but then I realized my GPH turnover with my Quietone 9000 at ~9-10 feet is 1000 gph at max. So my screen will require 840 GPH which is just about perfect for my current exchange rate. My water comes down to the basement via 2" then is converted to 1.5 and finally down to 1" where it will connect to the scrubber. (I am open to opinions on side vs top feed)

LED:Thinking 6:1 R:B per side, however I am curious how these are mounted externally or how to build a box with a compartment for LEDs which I have seen in some various builds, and what type of cooling is then required. Since forward voltage seems to be different on R/B I would need 2 drivers for the build correct? How far are people running LED from the screens? This amount of LEDs seems extreme for this small of screen, can a guy go like 4:1??

So based on my own assumptions and plans this is the plan overview:
Screen:24 inches total, 6x4 or 4x6
LED:6:1 R:B, 3 watts, 2 drivers
Box:Side Fed, sized to fit on 55g tank:
11 5/8" x 3" x 7", 2 x 1" bulkhead drains, 1x3/4" emergency drain bulkhead.
Water will be gravity fed via overflow to the side of the box.


Edit/Note:
I was fine with my scrubber failing miserably until I recently have had a small cyano outbreak in addition to red slime or red hair algae. I have lost a nice birds nest, tips on another birds nest, a chunk of monti spongoede is bleached out. Since they are in higher flow areas the strands of algae get stuck on them and just irritate them to death, literally. Temporary fix was I ordered 42W lightbulbs as a last effort attempt at boosting my algae growth, I had a 48 inch screen with 26W watt bulbs on each side and it just wasnt working.

[SantaMonica]

A 4 X 6 screen only needs 2 lambertian reds on each side, about 2" away.

The Chinese ones you tried were probably rejects.

[djmatteo]

Thanks for your reply, but would you pardon my ignorance here, what is lambertian reds? This is a new term to me and google didnt help clarify it.

This is good news though, 2 LEDs per side will be cost effective and easy to wire. One question though, if I wanted to put a little farther away to make my box building a little more efficient and stable (when sitting on the 55g) could I double the LEDs and still be just as effective from 3-4"?

[SantaMonica]

Lambertian is 120 degrees; widespread. The other type is 90 or 60 degree; medium and narrow.

You can put them at 3 or 4 inches, just box the sides in with with or mirror, so that all the sideways light reaches the screen.

[Floyd R Turbo]

You can run different LEDs on the same series, that is not an issue. If they have the same maximum mA rating, that's better. You can get 700mA rated reds and 1500mA rated blues and run them at 700mA and you will just get less than the maximum output on the blues. But "less than maximum" may mean still quite a bit more than the reds are putting out.

If you get the Philips Luxeon ES LEDs from Steve's LEDs, you can put 660nm and 455nm on the same series string, and run them on a 700mA constant current driver like the Meanwell LPC-35-700. What I do is take 2 blues and put them in parallel within the series string. Go into the (+) of the first blue, then wire both blue to each other (connect the other + to the + of the 2nd blue, and then connect the - terminals as well) then continue the series string from the (-) of the second blue. that way the blues don't overpower and burn.

[sklywag]

Try just making a very simple waterfall design in the sump using 23 watt CFLs. I have 1 inch bulkheads but make it open up to 1 and 1/4 inch on the drain. Why? Don't know. Maybe because I like the idea there isn't any pressure if that makes sense. Freer flowing? You have yours drop from 2 inch down to 1 inch. Don't know if there is science at work there or not. I always thought the return pump determined overflow rate. Anyway. The most simplest of designs have proven to work.

[djmatteo]

My theory behind reducing the over flow pipe as it nears the sump is to slow the water and force it through a smaller pipe in an effort to reduce the "crash" effect which causes many a micro bubble. This was done prior to adding a scrubber to the system, but that was the logic. Since PVC doesnt really unglue all that well, im sort of stuck with it until I take on a task of replumbing my entire overflow.

I do believe 1" pipe can handle the flow I am forcing through it, so I am not worried so much about that.

The new design will also be using 1" pipe but on a much smaller screen, so my flow:screen ratio will be much better!

I think I am buying a scroll saw with a rip fence, and just figure out how to do all this myself. Trial and error right!

I have tried using various combos with CFLs and I cant get anything to work, I think this design with a smaller screen and LEDs will be good! I have been using a bigger screen than I should have been, and just an awkward arrangement making due with second hand scrubbers. If I build one FOR my system thats a +1 right there!

Oh, and I have been avoiding a "simple" over the sump design I tried a couple variants but they all made to much splashing, evaporation, and humidity in the basement. I am a big fan of the enclosed box.

[sklywag]

This is what's on my temporary set up. http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/ddinox64/th_5-29-2012024.jpg (http://s874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/ddinox64/?action=view&current=5-29-2012024.jpg)
1/8 inch acrylic cut with a razor knife and Super glued. It does splash but only because my screen is short. If it went down into the water it would be very quiet and no splash. I know this because I ran this same style on my last tank.
My new scrubber made with 1/4 inch acrylic using Weld-on16 cut with cordless saw and a 36 tooth blade.
http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/ddinox64/th_10-14-2012087.jpg (http://s874.photobucket.com/albums/ab308/ddinox64/?action=view&current=10-14-2012087.jpg)
This is an open top box which the bottom will(hopefully) stay filled with water for 3D growth. If not. Oh well. The screen will be made long enough to be in the water to stop splash. Both fed from overflow as last one was eliminating the need for another pump and added heat/power. If you notice. My designs drop pretty far into sump and don't sit just on top. I also add covers for the area above te water where it sits.
You'll get this thing ironed out. If I. A real know nothing to any of this stuff can do it. Anyone can.

[djmatteo]

Ok Floyd I just want to pick your brain and make sure I have this all straight...

This is the LPC-35-700 driver:
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/mean-well-lpc-35-700.html?p=11952180

The RED Led:
http://shop.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-ES-Deep-Red-3-Watt-LEDs-Luxeon-ES-Deep-Red.htm

The royal blue LED:
http://shop.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-ES-ROYAL-BLUE-3-Watt-LEDs-Philips-royal-blue.htm


If I understand correctly, if I go roughly 2:1 or 3:1 R:B I will wire both the blues first as you said, then wire the rest of the reds. Also if I understand correctly this power supply should be perfect for this job right of the box?

Is the different in forward voltage 2.0 on the red and 2.75 on the blue at 700ma an issue?


I have got a nice scroll saw, corner clamps, weld-on, weld-on applicator, a sheet of acrylic and a half a dozen 1" slip bulkheads. Need to sort out the LEDs/Heatsinks and order the soldering supplies and away we go!!

[Floyd R Turbo]

you want an 'overall' ratio of 6:1 red:blue power wise, but in the case I described, yes I suppose the ratio is 3:1, but with the blues at 1/2 power due to parallel wiring, it is still the equivalent of 6:1. Vforward doesn't matter, the 700mA current will remain constant no matter what. The LPC-35-700 http://www.meanwell.com/search/LPC-35/default.htm delivers 33.6W and 9-48V of Vdrop, meaning that any combination of a total of up to 48V drop on a string will get 700mA (48V * 700mW = 33.6W)

If you were running true parallel strings, you would want the total voltage drops across each string to be matched, but we're not dealing with that - so no worries

[Skinnysloth]

This is what I did:

http://i45.tinypic.com/yi5xh.jpg

I used the tristar setup, http://shop.stevesleds.com/3-up-Tristar-Connected-Wiring-AntiDisco-Tristar-AntiDisco.htm because I was lazy and didn't want to solder that many single stars together. It's a little more expensive, but saves time with drilling holes in the heatsink and there's less stars to solder. As you can see, I have two tristars with all 660nm reds and one tristar with 2 reds and 1 royal blue. The single led on the bottom is a true violet (peak at 403nm) I had lying around. I wanted to see if violet will make a noticeable difference with regards to growth. They are wired in a series with a total forward voltage of 22.25v. They are powered by an inventronics 40w driver delivering 700ma that is manually dimmed to around 500ma. I dimmed it because I've read the true violet led does not last long at 700ma.

[djmatteo]

Thanks for your replies!!

Anyone have any pictures or suggestions of easy ways to mount LEDs/Heatsink/Power supply to the DIY waterfall boxes? I have a couple ideas, but my ideas take 3-4 tries to actually work!