My Scrubber Build What to Change

[Cole_lol]

Hey Guy/Gals,

I just build my scrubber and about to turn it on.
What do I need to change before I make everything wet?

Here is what the secs are.

System: 180 gal display, 60 gal display, 55 gal refug/sump
Feeding: 5 cubes a day
Screen Size: 15inchs wide x 9inches tall (I have it broke into two peices so I can clean them every other time once going)
Light: 4 x 23watt CFL with reflective shroud. I know it recomended 18 hours on 6 hours off. Should I start with that and see how it goes?
Flow: Will have atleast 35gph per inch just have to dial in my pump.

I know that my light to screen size is not correct. Reason I did this as I only feed 5 cubes.
But to get the light to fit correctly I oversized the screen.

That is where I think I need suggetions if any.

Here are a few pictures.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/5DA2948D-FC38-4267-9F8E-C1B2523BB9B2-6759-000009DC7CCBD921.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/1EC2DEB7-D76D-44AD-8DF4-B9F357EF80D3-6759-000009DC821AF78C.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/EA1248EE-4BB5-434A-8BF3-BC7DC18B258D-6759-000009DC84370B80.jpg

Thanks,
Cole

[Ace25]

Personally, I would change both the container and lighting. The container will act as bio-pellets because it is plastic, bacteria will eat it, and in turn usually making a huge cyano mess. Lighting to LEDs for obvious reasons.. cost. Little more $ up front but MUCH cheaper in the long run when you account for power usage and bulb replacement.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

The real surprise is the red line of Fig. 11; it documents the substantial increase in bacteria/mL for a control water sample that was not treated with EtOH. We simply removed about ½ gallon of water from the tub at the beginning of the experiment, and placed it in an open Tupperware container under fluorescent room lighting. This control portion of tank water was sampled for bacteria content daily just like the EtOH-treated larger tub water sample. Remarkably enough, the bacteria population in this control sample experienced a slower but still significant rise, increasing to a maximum of ~ 27x the original level after 3 days. What is fueling this bacterial growth? Since we have already determined that the bacteria population in this aquarium water sample is carbon limited, it seems reasonable to hypothesize that the Tupperware vessel itself is providing a metabolizable source of carbon!

These observations prompted a more direct examination of the actual Rubbermaid tub's capacity to contribute to bacterial growth - maybe the Tupperware vessel was unusually contaminated with organics. In this experiment, we removed a 30-gallon water sample from the KSF aquarium and transferred it to the uncovered Rubbermaid tub, as described previously. Water circulation was provided by powerheads but otherwise the system remained undisturbed. Water samples were withdrawn daily for 5 days, and the bacteria/mL counts are displayed in Fig. 12. Clearly, the tub itself (or organic material coating it) is providing a suitable carbon source for bacterial growth. The bacterial population rises some 26x over the initial value over 2.3 days, before declining slightly; a rationale for the burst in bacteria population at day 5 cannot be offered at present.

This was my first scrubber, obviously not built very good and I learned many lessons from it, but one of the biggest things I learned was never use a rubber maid tub on a reef tank. I had to completely empty it and scrub it clean every week... not talking the screen, talking the entire container.
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4080/4866545539_70ef032c9e.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Might as well use what you have since it is set up. Lighting is weak, with 92 watts for 135 square inches. Yes 18 hours.

If you did not clean the container, you'll want to scrub all the mold release wax (organics) off of it.

[Cole_lol]

Ace25, I totaly agree with what you said my plan was to use a 10 gallon aquarium. But I think I may try a 40 gallon aquarium when Petco runs there dollar sale, that or I may try my hand at acylic and build a custom one. LEDs I agree are the way to go. Just had all the stuff around so thats why I used them.

SantaMonica, I agree light is weak. I am going to redo my spray bar and make it so I have two 5inch by 9inch screens with one light on each side and that should be better.

Here is my 4 day growth pictures. Is there something I should change? The algae is really brown and kinda looks a little stringy. I also think I may have two much light at the main point of the light. What do we think?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/007E2FC4-B6E7-4C1A-9368-61BB3384E594-9823-00000CF11FBA4E2F.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/8BACCC32-BFBE-49F1-A644-620382762CA4-9823-00000CF115546ABC.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/45990BAE-C33F-4A46-8D9F-4FCB5C722501-9823-00000CF10DE97BA5.jpg

Thanks,
Cole

[SantaMonica]

I think more flow will help a lot.

[Cole_lol]

Ok turned the flow up. I may need to cut the slot a little bigger. Is there such thing as to much flow on a scrubber?

[SantaMonica]

Not really.

[Cole_lol]

Ok, So I did a bone headed move. I had to adjust my return pipe from my container to help control some micro bubbles. I left everything off for about an hour so I could replumb a little bit and thoght all was ok... Well... It was not turned out the algae dried up and now its starting back over. Been a day and looks like I have some growth back so not a complete restart but a speedbump.

[SantaMonica]

Will grow back quicker.

[Cole_lol]

Your right it did grow back alot quicker and not only that its alot thicker.
This is total count day 7. Anything look wrong?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/02DE2C10-3C96-4284-8391-824BB72D56C9-12249-00000FD4CB8DADFC.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/54A80730-CE24-4A1F-831D-8C60A248C58F-12249-00000FD474485541.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/59656816-C7D1-4709-B45D-63975CBA2DDC-12249-00000FD47ECC4BF8.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Let to go 14 days.

[Cole_lol]

Well here is 14 days. I see a few big clumps of hair algae growing and apon closer inspection it looks like there are alot smaller clumps starting. So thats good news?
Here are a few pictures. Im guessing now would be a good time to clean the screen. How clean does the screen need to be once done?

Here are a few pictures. Sorry the quality is not that great...

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/6783B127-F0D0-4E88-A2FE-0042B4842EEF-2693-00000386A219A143.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/1EE6E491-19E0-4043-BD67-57E604B95B67-2693-000003869A290EB0.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/0C48AB74-F743-4F94-BC37-65029D0AAC04-2693-00000386904D5A70.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/C6C75783-6A01-45BF-81AE-E9586A8ED94D-2693-00000386873DAF63.jpg

The left side is the side that has the most flow and it seems that it does not have nearly as many hair algae spots. I am guessing it will fill in over time.

Thanks for all your help in this project, since I am a complete noob.

Cole

[SantaMonica]

Sounds like the screen might be smooth and the higher flow is grabbing the longer gha.

Go ahead and clean all off; it should fill in more in another 14 days.

[Cole_lol]

Your pro right. I did some adjustments and was able to get the flow more even and uniform.
Is it ok to rerough it up after its been running for a while it I keep haveing issues?

[SantaMonica]

Yes although it will start from scratch there.

[Cole_lol]

Well looks like this is day 4 after the screen cleaning, not sure if i messed up as i cleaned it with a toothbrush. But I have a few questions. How does one go about equalizing the flow on the spray bar? One side has a whole lot more flow then the other. Also, I am getting buildup of hair algae at the slot of the spray bar also that looks like it maybe part of the flow issue also. I did put a peice of canvas inside the spray bar like I saw on a post when I was crusing around and I think it helped just not to the full extent that I hoped.

Any suggestions?

[SantaMonica]

???

[kotlec]

Try saranwrap method. Be sure to use black. It will solve buildup problem and will even out the flow at some extent.

[Floyd R Turbo]

They make black saran wrap?

[Cole_lol]

Ok, Here are a few pictures at 7 days after my first cleaning. Also, includeds my solution to help the algae build up at the spray bar.

I think its looking good. There is alot more green on the screen. I think the mix is about 50% brown and 50% green, I did see some pinkish orange on it as well.... Not sure what it is.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/AEF1A04F-B504-4824-B676-91A5C845F5AE-247-000000151CE8939A.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/87E05EA0-3B08-4EA1-B07C-87895C54D1C4-247-0000001521288AEB.jpg

I used some 3inch pipe that I cut a slot for it to go around the 3/4inch spray bar. It seems flow fixes itself once there is a nice layer of algae on the top of the screen.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/5EC6358C-3E9F-434E-86C1-32EBE9095DD5-247-000000152C77084C.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/CE4CB6FC-6F99-4762-956D-6AB7B3B16D59-247-0000001524F26F8B.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/EB7BCAFE-C2FE-4069-BB41-9C5BAEADDE05-247-000000153342D376.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/06F00EEB-5CBB-4067-AA17-28740BA8A8F2-247-000000153B1E469B.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/98944C47-E78D-4ED8-A5F7-DBA2C35F332F-247-0000001541A2AAA9.jpg

Sould I clean or keep it going for 7 more day?

I guess I could clean one and keep the other one going to see how it goes.

Any suggestions or comments?

Thanks,
Cole

[Garf]

I would get the police to arrest that bloke in your garden, for a start.

[Cole_lol]

I would get the police to arrest that bloke in your garden, for a start.

HAHA, I dont see any bloke.... And garden yikes I dont have a garden!

[Garf]

Phew. Thought you were being stalked. Screen will get better and better from here. Don't forget to change bulbs every 3 months (make a hell of a difference in intensity).

[Cole_lol]

Ya I think here in the next week or two I am going to order 20 red leds. 10 for each side, I just wanted to get the scrubber going and this was a quick way to do so!!! Hope mine ends up looking like yours on time!

[Garf]

Have you been looking at my bits ? I'm gonna go LEDS also. Cfl's seem to keep things in check, but I think your right, LEDS provide more for your "buck", or "quid" in the queens language.

[SantaMonica]

If the screen is dark, clean it now.

[Cole_lol]

Dark as in not good? Anything I should change?

[SantaMonica]

Dark blocks lights.

More light helps grow green.

[Cole_lol]

Ahhhh. That makes sense.
I guess Ill be cleaning every 7ish days till I get some good green growth.
I hope haha.

[Cole_lol]

Well I cleaned the screen early today and the reason why is I made the screens smaller.
I am finding that when I did this the flow is blowing half the water off the screen..
Any other suggestions on how to even out the flow?

I have not gotten any really good green algae build up just mostly brown.
I hope that by haveing a smaller screen this will help with screen size to wattage.

[SantaMonica]

The flow should fill-in as growth occurs.

Make sure all your light is directed to the screen.

[Cole_lol]

Cleaned it again today. Still dont have very much hair algae and its still very dark. I did check my nitrates (35ppm) and they are lower then when I first started so thats a plus.
I need to test it all again today and see if they have gone down any more.

[Cole_lol]

OK so my LEDs came in and going to build a fixture for my scrubber.
I have 12 3w LEDs per side. 10 Red (660) and 2 Royal Blue.
The screen is 6in x 8in and I have a LED for every 2in x 2in square of screen.
Anything I should change? Is this over kill or sound about right?
Any help would be great!

Here is a picture of a mock build. All the leds are going to be mounted to aluminume "C" channeling.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/8F83E10C-FD90-4E75-A1FF-22663ABF146E-1868-0000031712441170_zpse99a4901.jpg

[Cole_lol]

Ok, So I built a LED fixture for my scrubber and changed the layout completly.

The LEDs are 10 Red 660 and 2 Royal Blue all 3 watts running at 700ma.

I made a wood box with acrylic front and back to house the LEDs.

Also took a peice of acrylic and folded it in half to go over the screen to help prevent splater.

Hope what I did is ok. So here are some pictures.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/6845F7C5-8EA8-406B-A689-C1D2A0A12A0D-805-0000010C22E15058_zps0d698228.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/05DB0494-F9E5-4E89-930B-0A83FB07B20E-805-0000010C186EC184_zps17f573ff.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/2AF5939E-6583-4175-8B10-F40B630506F2-805-0000010C111AB122_zps5b510f72.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/911EC5AD-682B-4B8B-BA89-BA5AD77903DF-805-0000010C29D00C6E_zps26aba778.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/8E312840-E53F-4437-9279-1CC17880D780-805-0000010C31697173_zps4a1a57cb.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/DE1CA39F-5403-4200-99F9-F6B923C72694-805-0000010C1E1B7BA9_zpse08f07be.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/8A81E309-B86E-4F6C-B4AA-9C307649C18C-805-0000010C39D36FDD_zps4c605a22.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Most important would be to make it 2-sided.

[Cole_lol]

Yes it will be two sided just didn't have the second LED light built yet.
Is there enough LEDs? The screen is 6in x 8in or so and have one 3w LED
Per 2.5in x 2.5in section of screen. Also keep the same light cycle of 18 hours
On and 6 hours off?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Plenty of light. Are both of your blues in the middle? Are they at full power? Those are much more intense, you're going to burn the middle of the screen. Try wiring them in parallel like a current divider like I do. Works well.

I would start 9 on 15 off.

[Cole_lol]

Ok so it's been going for 4 days and I don't see any algae growing at all. When I was useing the fluorescent bulbs I had the brown algae growing by now. Because of the of the new LEDs is it going to grow a diffrent algae for starts? I know I need to be pacient just an observation.
Thanks Cole

[Floyd R Turbo]

Plenty of light. Are both of your blues in the middle? Are they at full power? Those are much more intense, you're going to burn the middle of the screen. Try wiring them in parallel like a current divider like I do. Works well.

I would start 9 on 15 off.

Did you see my questions above?

What photoperiod?

Are you using diffusers?

How close are your LEDs to your screen?

[Cole_lol]

Did you see my questions above?
Sure did. I have one side with blues in parallel one side not. I will change that just have not yet.

What photoperiod?
I changes my photoperiod to 9h on 15h off.

Are you using diffusers?
I do not have a diffuser for say. But the light is going thru two peices of acrylic befor hitting the screen.

How close are your LEDs to your screen?
LEDs are about 1-2.5 inches from the screen I would say.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I had other questions also:

Are both of your blues in the middle?

Are they at full power?

What photoperiod?

Are you using diffusers?

[Cole_lol]

Sorry. My reply was in your quote. Here it is better i hope.

Did you see my questions above?
Sure did. I have one side with blues in parallel one side not. I will change that just have not yet.

What photoperiod?
I changes my photoperiod to 9h on 15h off.

Are you using diffusers?
I do not have a diffuser for say. But the light is going thru two peices of acrylic befor hitting the screen.

How close are your LEDs to your screen?
LEDs are about 1-2.5 inches from the screen I would say.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Ah, I didn't see that.

I think you need diffusers until your screen has cured. The 100% blues on one side are likely overpowering the screen. On my original batch of L2s (rev 1) the blue is at the same mA as the reds, and most people had problems with the screen not filling in at the middle. I had people add a black dot over the diffuser with a sharpie or a small piece of blue painters tape or black electrical tape on the diffuser in front of the blue LED, which seemed to help.

I noticed that it looks like your arrays have both blues in the middle, and reds around the outside. I would consider placing the blues at the centerpoints of each half of the screen, and surround them with reds. So for instance if your array is 6" wide and 8" tall you would put one at 2" from the top center point and the other at 2" above bottom center, then arrange the reds around them.

Of course this would mean re-doing your array so you might be past that point. But if you end up with a vast difference in growth around the edges vs the middle, this would explain it.

[Cole_lol]

Thanks for your reply. I will change the middle to a parallel on the aray that has not been done.
I'll also add a diffuser. As for the led location they are really close to how you have discribed. Not to exact measurements but close. That is if I get what you are saying.

Cancel that. I see what your saying. I should move them up higher and will cover more of the screen with less focus in the middle.

Thanks for your reply. Hope to see some growth soon!!!

[Cole_lol]

Think I should move the leds away from the screen till I start to get some growth or would you think a diffuser will be fine for now?

[Ace25]

I would move the LEDs back OR add a diffuser. 1 to 1-1/2" is too close for 3w LEDs straight on. I think you will have a hard time establishing the screen with that high of intensity.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think it depends on how far back you move the LEDs. Go back to 3-4" away and you might be OK w/o the diffuser. Oh. what Ace said.

[Cole_lol]

OK Cool guys! Thanks for your help! What I did is added a peice of the screen in front of the LEDs to diffuse it and left the distance the same. If I still dont have any luck I will move them back just a bit and go from there!!!!

In the mean time I still need to run the two blues in parallel and if that still dosent help I will move the leds a bit as far as the blue placement goes...

[Cole_lol]

Well I looked at it this morning. Looks like I have some brown growth around the edges. Hope it fills into the middle.

[Cole_lol]

Ok All just a little update here and looking for some feedback.

Here is my 4 week old screen with 1 week (7days) of growth. Is this looking good?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/A1C7D8EF-937C-47D1-9B8D-77D23793E1B0-6970-00000C1618B5A2DA_zps417475bd.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/6CDC0E4C-A38E-4264-9DD5-037E40D95010-6970-00000C162BE1820B_zps07e50f43.jpg

Here is the screen after I cleaned it. Is it clean enough or maybe too clean?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/F2346B01-9052-449A-9343-9C419A142B12-6970-00000C1672684A10_zps019f481a.jpg

I am cleaning it every 7 days.

The light cycle is 10 hours on with 12 hours off. Should I think about increasing the time?
The light also has diffuser and was wondering if I should keep it diffused or consider takeing it off?

I have been testing my Nitrate levels and over the past 4 weeks they have not dropped at all and I do have cyno in spots growing still.

Just wondering if I am on a good path or if something should be changed?

Thanks,
Cole

[SantaMonica]

I'd go to 16 or 18 hours, and 14 days.

[Cole_lol]

Well I didnt bump it up to 18 hours but I did incease it to 15 hours. I also let it go 14 days as suggested. I have not measured to see if the Nitrates went down yet and I still have alot of cyno growing in the tank but I am starting to think it maybe my lights and will problay be the last to go. So..... here are the results...

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/DAABEA2A-F10B-47C6-8F83-6A093151272E-164-00000005C95221E6_zpsf3bfd852.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/05108BB2-6020-44E5-802B-154FFAB7DCB4-164-00000005D2493816_zps907f4c44.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/B1E54BE9-42D7-4FF7-95D1-A116267490B3-164-00000005DB9C69B0_zps7029875a.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/19F69EB1-7038-47E5-8F8D-809B0E3590E2-164-00000005E076C2A8_zps1c1c4379.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/B774F0EA-B4BF-4CB9-8735-94BF52C6EF77-164-00000005E58CC3D5_zps899450fc.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Cole_Robinson/D09BDABE-D4D5-4302-AC85-FBF2F66301D1-164-00000005E998AF26_zpse8d99f90.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Looks real good.