Carbon dosing and scrubbers

[BearHill]

I know this is going off topic a bit as this thread started but how does carbon dosing with kalk affect a scrubber? I dont run a skimmer should i not carbon dose......... or as in all other cases do scrubbers effectiveness increase like a skimmer would. Or are the chances high I will get a bacteria bloom beyond control? Most everything i have read about carbon dosing is written with a skimmer in mind.

[SantaMonica]

If nutrients are very high, the dosing might help the scrubber grow green quicker. If nutrients are low, dosing would slow the scrubber down.

Even if nutrients are high, dosing and scrubbing would lower them, and eventually the dosing would slow the scrubber down. But as long as the scrubber is growing black, dosing would probably help.

You don't have to run a skimmer with dosing unless you really want to lower nutrients; the increase bacteria and microbes just get eaten by the corals.

[BearHill]

If nutrients are very high, the dosing might help the scrubber grow green quicker. If nutrients are low, dosing would slow the scrubber down.

Even if nutrients are high, dosing and scrubbing would lower them, and eventually the dosing would slow the scrubber down. But as long as the scrubber is growing black, dosing would probably help.

You don't have to run a skimmer with dosing unless you really want to lower nutrients; the increase bacteria and microbes just get eaten by the corals. Thank you!

[tebo]

I do that when my no3 up

[BearHill]

I do that when my no3 up If you dont mind me asking what is your dosing rate?

[Woody Gap]

I dose low amount 60 ml per 5 gallon and do have bacteria mat growing on rocks. Currently trying to solve problem, everything I have read says to skim when carbon dosing but interested in where this tread goes because I do not want to run a skimmer and there are various opinions on this topic.

[Amphiprion]

I dose low amount 60 ml per 5 gallon and do have bacteria mat growing on rocks. Currently trying to solve problem, everything I have read says to skim when carbon dosing but interested in where this tread goes because I do not want to run a skimmer and there are various opinions on this topic.

If you're getting visible bacterial mats, I would reduce the dosage, at least initially. If you are going to use a bacterial-driven system, I recommend skimming. I don't think it is necessary on every system, but this is one instance where it can be beneficial for a variety of reasons, not least of which is ensuring adequate oxygen. Of course, the latter is alleviated quite a bit with a scrubber, but a skimmer will also reduce bacterial populations by directly exporting them. While corals do indeed eat bacteria, this is yet another way to export nutrients and make sure populations don't go crazy, either.

[Bilk]

60ml seems like an awful lot, but you didn't state what the carbon source is. It's also my opinion that a skimmer and dosing go hand in hand.

[Floyd R Turbo]

You don't have to run a skimmer with dosing unless you really want to lower nutrients; the increase bacteria and microbes just get eaten by the corals.

I was intrigued by this statement so I asked a carbon dosing expert about this and his response was "I don't recommend it, but it's a complicated answer."

[RkyRickstr]

I did carbon dosing and scrubber only for a year. eventually there is so much that the corals cant eat it all. I recommend a skimmer with it. Not to mention I have noticibly less skimmate since I stoped the vinegar.

but to answer the op.. yes its possible to run a scrubber and carbon dosing. even if the scrubber growth slows down.. who cares, as slong as your nutrients are low, we are here to grow beautiful coral, not beautiful algae.

[Garf]

Would have thought there was no need to separately dose carbon sources considering the screen algae is already producing sugars and Aminos, or at least do not dose the full prescribed amounts.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Well I can ask my expert about that possibility. He speaks at club event and major national events all across the nation and is a renowned carbon dosing expert in the reef community. Oh yeah and he has 2x L2s and soon an L3 on his tanks. So he's exploring these types of questions and scenarios, which to my knowledge have not been explored.

[BearHill]

Well I can ask my expert about that possibility. He speaks at club event and major national events all across the nation and is a renowned carbon dosing expert in the reef community. Oh yeah and he has 2x L2s and soon an L3 on his tanks. So he's exploring these types of questions and scenarios, which to my knowledge have not been explored. Thats exciting! I hope to hear more about his experiences! Thank you! For the time being im going to try and dose small amounts and see where it gets me...without running a skimmer.

[kerry]

I normally dose at least 50ml of vinegar and 2 tps of calcuim hydroxide (kalk, lime powder, pickling powder) per gallon. I dose about a gallon of this per day to my 40G. I have done this for a long time.

[Bilk]

I normally dose at least 50ml of vinegar and 2 tps of calcuim hydroxide (kalk, lime powder, pickling powder) per gallon. I dose about a gallon of this per day to my 40G. I have done this for a long time.
You dose 1 GALLON of vinegar per day in a 40 g tank? :confused:

[kaskiles]

50 ml vinegar per day. It's just carried in with a gallon of RO/DI and 2 teaspoons of kalk...

[tebo]

Well a few months ago I made a mistake in my tank, the point is that I shot no3 over 25ppm and phosphates just rose from 0.01 to 0.06 ppm, three months after my ats running alone could not lower no3 20ppm, therefore use the vsv, achieved after a month down to 5ppm NO3

Right now I use a maintenance dose of 25ml in 1700lts, I'm perfectly fine with my ats and never used and skimmer, but if we have to note that in the area of the sump into a foam, but still not retired

regards

PD:So if there are bacteria everywhere
PD2:ahh I forgot the dose was lowered 50ml

[Woody Gap]

60ml seems like an awful lot, but you didn't state what the carbon source is. It's also my opinion that a skimmer and dosing go hand in hand.

Carbon source is vinegar. Think I am going to add a small skimmer (tunze 9004) and see if I can find the right balance.

[Bilk]

Carbon source is vinegar. Think I am going to add a small skimmer (tunze 9004) and see if I can find the right balance.
in all the reading I've ever done on carbon dosing and in my experience dosing carbon, a skimmer is a must and part of the equation. It's the method of export needed to effectively utilize dosing as a means of reducing nitrates and phosphates. I dosed vodka and at much lower quantities as it's carbon component is much higher than 5% white vinegar. Vodka is 80 proof or 40% alcohol by volume.

This (http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/116-vinegar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium) is a well written article by two knowledgeable reefkeepers and scientists. Your dosing seems excessive by any measure and without skimmer seems like a disaster in waiting. Well good luck and I hope the article helps. :)

Edit:

I'm guessing I misinterpreted your dosing, but it wasn't exactly expressed well. So you're mixing a solution that consists of 60ml vinegar with 5g of ro water? That would make more sense. But then you need to explain how much of that solution you're dosing per unit volume of the total system including the sump. I think a lot of people don't understand they system volume. A 75 gallon tank isn't 75 net gallons. It's more like 65g. then the sump volume needs to be added to it based on the operating level. Basically calculate cubic inches of each vessel and convert to gallons. You can do it right in the Google search bar. #cubic inches = gallons

Knowing the real system volume makes a big difference especially when dosing any substance.