scrubber dying

[RkyRickstr]

So check it out guys.. I used to dose vinegar when I was running scrubber only and worked ok.

I started dosing again with skimmer on this time ans skimmer is producing double, and algae is turning white, dying. I think the increased bacteria population is taking care of nutrients, not leaving anything for the algae. Zeo style, kinda.

Thoughts?

[Floyd R Turbo]

That's just odd. One of my customers is doing rather heavy carbon dosing and still gets enough growth to clean every 5 days. Not vinegar though. Pretty sure he's skimming too.

[MorganAtlanta]

Mine hasn't died with vinegar dosing with a skimmer, but has almost stopped growing.

[alum]

Mine hasn't died with vinegar dosing with a skimmer, but has almost stopped growing.

Me too, probably cause he has low PO4 or NO3 ???

NO3 should has a bit for start. do you feeding fish?

[MorganAtlanta]

About 2 cubes a day. Scrubber grew well before the skimmer and vinegar, but couldn't out compete cyano in the display for some reason. The combo of skimmer, vinegar and scrubber seems to be doing a good job keeping the cyano at bay, but now I only get a handful of algae every two weeks rather than several handfuls every 10 days.

[RkyRickstr]

Yup, same here.. cyano died within 48hrs of connecting skimmer. Scrubber was still growing till I added vinegar. I think tank shifted a bit from algae as primary filtration to bacterial. The bacteria has the n and p undetectable not leaving much for the scrubber. Thats my theory at least.

[Garf]

Have you considered allelopathy?

[RkyRickstr]

What did you call me??!!!

You looking for trouble?.. lol

[Floyd R Turbo]

I am no longer completely buying into the idea that there is a "battle" between bacterial based filtration (carbon dosing) and algal based filtration. I am putting it back into the "unknown" category. I have been seeing evidence that they can indeed work together. I think it may have a lot to do with the particular implementation of carbon dosing that is does carbon dosing as a category of filtration.

It may be that the source of the carbon is what causes algal filtration to shift effectiveness, rather than the bacterial population that the carbon source is feeding.

I have more than one customer who is carbon dosing heavily and getting massive algal growth. One is running biopellets and the other is running multiple methodologies on multiple tanks.

[SantaMonica]

Cleared up cyano on the sand is just due to skimmer removing the tiny food particles which would otherwise settle on the sand.

[RkyRickstr]

Cyano was up in a few rocks close to a powerhead... doubt that was the case.

Bud u dont get to categorize nutin!

I dont see any other reason for a fully mature screen to dye overnight. Maybe the change in nutrients shocked it? The roots where still green. I cleaned off the white and its growing again. Oh well.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Are you sure nothing blocked the pump flow? Maybe something that caused an intermittent failure. I've only seen algae go white because of no flow.

[RkyRickstr]

Nope.. flow was same. Happened withing 48hrs. Saw it with my own two eyes.. lol

Im telling you only change was vinegar.

[RkyRickstr]

Oh. I went from 9hrs to 12. Could have been that.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Ah, then it could have been a double whammy, longer photoperiod and vinegar dosing. Still pretty weird.

[Enigma84]

Im no expert on all the exact biology, but i tried sugar dosing at one point whilst running a scrubber. This was to try and knock the last of the cyano out that i had. It seemed to work, but if your taking the N and P out of the water by carbon dosing and skimmer, then the algae is gonna struggle to grow as its pinching its food?
If the scrubber is not enough to knock out all of the nuisance algae problems on its own, then you need stronger lights. Either that, or go with full carbon dosing. It does seem a bit silly to run both, as they both have inconveniences of their own.

[alum]

Nope.. flow was same. Happened withing 48hrs. Saw it with my own two eyes.. lol

Im telling you only change was vinegar.

I always use vinegar and sugar dosing, while ATS and UAS run together but at the end ATS grow faster then UAS, might be cause I use stronger flow until UAS no algae attach anymore but macroalgae from regium tank still gow. Now I use ATS+refugium only... do you think faster flow will work for more good??

[Garf]

I always use vinegar and sugar dosing, while ATS and UAS run together but at the end ATS grow faster then UAS, might be cause I use stronger flow until UAS no algae attach anymore but macroalgae from regium tank still gow. Now I use ATS+refugium only... do you think faster flow will work for more good??

If its any use to you alum, the magic flow rate is 22cm/second. Below that, the boundary layer restricts growth, above that shows no increase in growth compared to 22cm/s

[alum]

If its any use to you alum, the magic flow rate is 22cm/second. Below that, the boundary layer restricts growth, above that shows no increase in growth compared to 22cm/s

sorry my lack english, its meant flow rate below 22cm/s is better or worse ??

[Garf]

Worse.

[alum]

I am using 2000lt/h with screen : (h)27cm x (l)34cm
its that enaugh flow for that ??

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?2691-My-new-setup-ATS&p=31226#post31226

[Garf]

I am using 2000lt/h with screen : (h)27cm x (l)34cm
its that enaugh flow for that ??

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?2691-My-new-setup-ATS&p=31226#post31226

Looks ok for now. Patience alum. :)

[alum]

Looks ok for now. Patience alum. :)

Yeah! I am just thinking abaut sunlight direct to the tank.... and also before my tank was a mesh.

thanks Garf :)

[Floyd R Turbo]

If its any use to you alum, the magic flow rate is 22cm/second. Below that, the boundary layer restricts growth, above that shows no increase in growth compared to 22cm/s

Garf, so the 22cm/s you are talking about is the rate of flow that the water is falling down across the screen, correct? I don't think I recall this figure being discussed.

[RkyRickstr]

22cm/s

Can someone translate this?

[alum]

22cm/s

Can someone translate this?

the fall speed of water, no mater how big screen is.... maybe,,..

[Garf]

Photosynthetic organisms benefit/require a flow. Photosynthetic rates increase, relative of flow upto 22 centimetres per second. Flow rates above 22 centimetres per second show no extra photosynthetic benefit. It's thought that this is due not to nutrient delivery, but the removal of produced photosynthetic oxygen. If not thoroughly removed, this produced photosynthetic oxygen competes with carbon dioxide at the Rubisco sites within algae, causing stunted growth and wasted energy.

This is one of the reasons for questioning my own screens ability to function effectively, as it is so thick. Perhaps the algae underneath is severely flow (and light) deficient.

[RkyRickstr]

No I got that part garf.. im just asking about that measurement.. is there a gph translation?

[Floyd R Turbo]

it's not a rate of flow figure, it's a rate of fall.

[alum]

hmm.. now I can imagine the speed of water drop on my ATS screen more than 22cm/s.

[Garf]

Extra speed is not bad. Gravity controls that, unless the algae growth is thicker, then other factors come into play.

Better mention that the friction/turbulence will affect the speed more, with less volume of water ie thinner flow.

[alum]

Extra speed is not bad. Gravity controls that, unless the algae growth is thicker, then other factors come into play.

Better mention that the friction/turbulence will affect the speed more, with less volume of water ie thinner flow.

but if i see, if screen a lot of algaes attached the speed going down :)
need scrubb or need more power to flow the water.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Right. When you get thicker growth, then higher flow is needed. Then, with higher flow, you get thicker growth. Is it the chicken or the egg that came first???!!!

[iiluisii]

Not hi jaking just showing that this method works. If some of you remember what my tank looked like you guys know that I had massive hair algae problems some how my tank couldn't handle a scrubber only set up don't know why. Well I decided to change things and started running full dose of dr Tim's np pearls bio pellets and added an over rated cone skimmer and the tank began to look a little better then I added my L2 scrubber around the 10th of march and the first week it didn't grow anything on it not even a brown spot then the second week it grew green algae only on the side not in the center on the 3rd week it started growing full and now it's growing massive green hair algae and this is in conjunction of enough bio pellets for a 300 gallon system. It took 4 weeks to kill all the algae in my tank. Also all my sps corals are doing wonderfull.

[RkyRickstr]

How do you measure it?

[Garf]

In side the mat of algae growth, you can't. There maybe some tell tale signs though, such as "Bubbly Growth" which would indicate to me a serious gas exchange problem.

[iiluisii]

My one week growth with full dose of bio pellets so I don't see how yours is dying
4251

[RkyRickstr]

Mine died because I upped the hours to 12.. I went back to 9 and it was growing fine...

awesome growth btw... nori for dinner?

[iiluisii]

Mine died because I upped the hours to 12.. I went back to 9 and it was growing fine...

awesome growth btw... nori for dinner?

Weird cause I'm running my L2 16 hrs. How big is your tank and how many fish you got. I got a 185 gallon plus sump and I have 22 fish a 3 inch hippo, 4 inch yellow tang 3 inch sailfin 6 inch foxface 3 inch coral beauty adult mated pair black and white clowns the femail is about 3 inches tread fin anthias trio, mandarin goby, springeri dotty back, Midas Blenny, 3 springer damsel, 4 green chromis, black and white and orange and white clown pair plus all my corals and shrimps and cuc. Maybe that's why mine is still going since I have a heavy bio load plus I feed 4x a day pellets plus two cubes of frozen food.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Everyone's tank is different, so what works for one may not work at all for another. Feeding, filtration diversity, lighting, flow, livestock, tank longevity, way too many factors to consider. You just have to adjust things until they work right for you.

Rky's scrubber going white might just have been due to a change in the way that was done, increasing the light period and adding carbon dosing at the same time just threw it off balance enough for the screen to react quickly. Not sure I could recall someone else ever having a similar issue. Usually changes like that are more gradual, so I would think it might be hard to even duplicate on purpose.

[iiluisii]

you are right.