My new setup ATS

[alum]

container: (h)30cm x (l)40cm x (w)20cm
screen : (h)27cm x (l)34cm
pump 2000 L/H connect with air

led : white 3.2k x 6
red 660nm x 8
blue 445nm x 3

something missing ??

[SantaMonica]

Holiday lights :)

[Floyd R Turbo]

Don't know if those whites are going to do you much good, but we'll see. The plastic material looks like a good diffuser, but at the distance from the screen it might be knocking down the intensity too much. Try it and see!

[alum]

Holiday lights :)
Do you meant is perrish wheel light or merry go around ? :p LOL
this white leds came from the old ATS before.. still experiment sir! LOL


Don't know if those whites are going to do you much good, but we'll see. The plastic material looks like a good diffuser, but at the distance from the screen it might be knocking down the intensity too much. Try it and see!
The white is 3.2k warm white.
I use them because I have no red light avaliable from now.. I think you are right the light too strong, algae going whiten..

I will add resistor to white leds to reduce intensity.. see what it will be..

[Floyd R Turbo]

Not too intense - the whites are the wrong spectrum. "K" ratings for LEDs are meaningless - they do not compare to CFL for our purposes. LED "K" ratings are only there for marketing purposes, aimed at architects and lighting designers who wish to replace less efficient lighting with LEDs, but want them to look the same.

For growing plants/algae, you need deep red and far blue. This corresponds to 660mn Red and 440-455nm blue. Anything else is just filler, and is likely wasted energy.

Warm White LEDs do have red in them. But that's the only part you really want.

[alum]

Not too intense - the whites are the wrong spectrum. "K" ratings for LEDs are meaningless - they do not compare to CFL for our purposes. LED "K" ratings are only there for marketing purposes, aimed at architects and lighting designers who wish to replace less efficient lighting with LEDs, but want them to look the same.

For growing plants/algae, you need deep red and far blue. This corresponds to 660mn Red and 440-455nm blue. Anything else is just filler, and is likely wasted energy.

Warm White LEDs do have red in them. But that's the only part you really want.

I would like to change it but after Installed UV sterilizer my ATS and UAS work down and now my refugium grow a little bit faster that's why I will wait before to change white led into red ones.
Now I just turn on the red leds only..

[alum]

Fixing project :

changing all white leds into red leds, could be like this.. :
4151

still waiting for delivering order..

[alum]

Don't know what missing here.. here the result after chaanging warm white led into red leds.

419641974198


But I will move the screen closely to led between 10cm now from them.
might be better? any suggest ???

[Floyd R Turbo]

A few questions:

1) What is the screen material?

2) is it well roughed up?

3) how long has this screen been running?

It doesn't look bad, if that's what you're worried about. Do you have pics of growth from before you switched the LEDs?

[alum]

A few questions:

1) What is the screen material?

2) is it well roughed up?

3) how long has this screen been running?

It doesn't look bad, if that's what you're worried about. Do you have pics of growth from before you switched the LEDs?

1 & 2. its plastic and already roght enaugh.
3. I think its abaut 2 weeks ago.


I just compare what I've got before in my UAS .. I've got hair algaes, like this : http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?2385-Alum-s-nuisance-algae-problem-in-Indodesia

Looking great that I had before.... the question is can I get the same result with my new ATS now ?

and I've been thinking abaut what you said before, the container wall will deffused the light.. so then I try to cover almost whole wall container with black plastic and add 1 fan, see what it can do..

anyways thank's a lot. I will post later the result.

[Floyd R Turbo]

2 weeks is nothing. Give it a month, then worry. You're off to a great start

[alum]

change plann I already fixed all leds becoming red but in the middle of them I use uv 410 nm, see what it can do.

so 14:1 660nm : 410nm.
could be like this.. : 4200

The color purple so deep can't see by human eyes just a little bit bright.

what do you think ??

[Floyd R Turbo]

Why change it? You need to give it time to grow. Just leave it as is

[alum]

its done yet! let we try this way and also I already scrubbed the screen clean.
lets see after moving screen more closely to the light (5-7cm) and also I wanna see the effect of 410nm going.. if that led good (effect growth in the middle of the screen where the purple ligh focus) I would like to order more for my refugium tank too.

thank's again... be back in 1 month.

[alum]

3 week later......

4240
4241

but I will wait till 1 month.. then scrub it.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I would clean it now. The yellow gooey stuff can block light pretty well.

[alum]

I would clean it now. The yellow gooey stuff can block light pretty well.

Why It cannot get the green hair algae?? might be only using UAS can get that ???
My macroalgae is dying now I see start withered I wonder if I scrubb the screen will back fresh again ???

[SantaMonica]

Needs more flow. Also can add iron. Maybe less hours of light.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I sounds like you have lowered the nutrients and now your screen is oversized compared to the amount you feed.

Please answer the following:

1) Tank size
2) amount fed daily, on average
3) what is in the tank (what fish, corals, etc)
4) how many hours per day do you run the lights on the scrubber?
5) what is the flow rate of water over the scrubber screen?

[alum]

Needs more flow. Also can add iron. Maybe less hours of light.

ops! I forgot that irons..


I sounds like you have lowered the nutrients and now your screen is oversized compared to the amount you feed.

Please answer the following:

1) Tank size
2) amount fed daily, on average
3) what is in the tank (what fish, corals, etc)
4) how many hours per day do you run the lights on the scrubber?
5) what is the flow rate of water over the scrubber screen?

Tank outdoor, 2 meters x 40cm x45cm.... no light for now( still building leds) but in a day sunlight trought it (roof is transparent material)
3 Fish only with size M and S with various mushrooms.

I am kinda start again cycling my tank again cause was a mesh before with hair algaes on all liverocks.
thanks with my UAS and ATS, all algaes just stay on the scrubber screen by now.
flow= I use 2000 lt/h with 24 hours of light.

before all of these I've got hair algaes on UAS probably cause still hight PO4.
but now UAS no algae attach again after I am using ATS so I unistall that UAS..

now, only running ATS and macroalgae on refugium.

[Garf]

The screen material looks very thin. Do you think that the lack of attachment surface (roughness) may be affecting the type of growth ? Have you seen Floyds video on how to rough a screen up ?

[Floyd R Turbo]

You should not be running the scrubber lights 24 hours/day. all plants need a dark period. With your LED setup, you probably should be running them 12 hours/day.

With such a small amount of fish in the tank, I'm guessing that you are not feeding much. Therefore, you are not going to get a lot of algae growth.

Your screen is 10" x 13" or 130 sq in, that's big enough for 10 cubes/day of feeding. Your screen is way oversized, which is why you are getting yellow growth. Important - just because you are not getting green growth does not mean the scrubber is not working!! The question you need to be asking is this: how does my tank look?

If your tank is free of algae, and your fish and corals are doing well, then everything is fine! Don't worry about the color of your algae so much!

[Garf]

Hmm - I've been thinking about these "Alien Growth" screens recently. If that stuff was growing on the sand or rocks in a display it would be classified as cyano or dino's or both. I think a bit of thought should be put into rectifying this. The screen (at the top at least) is capable of green periphyton growth. Maybe an over abundance of DOC,s favouring mixotrophic species. Just a thought.

[alum]

4243


was like that.... but now its clear, I just wanna make sure everything before start to reefing again..
slow for sure :)

[alum]

4291
1 week after since last scrubbed.
its seem in the middle is not strong light ?

4292
new look!

4293
fast food!

[SantaMonica]

Middle is too strong. Needs more water flow, and wider reflectors. Also could do less hours light, and less days before cleaning.

[Garf]

4291
1 week after since last scrubbed.
its seem in the middle is not strong light ?

4292
new look!

4293
fast food!

Looks a lot better than last time. Things are on the up :)
Have you checked your pH? Seems like the centre of the screen is suffering from an excess of something, but can't be light can it? Just trying to poke some holes in the conventional wisdom, no malice intended.

[Garf]

This is a one sided screen isn't it? From your UAS thread, it appears it didn't cure your problem, hence the move to a waterfall type scrubber. What does the other side of this screen look like? I'm assuming a bit of algae has grown through the mesh and is also yellow in the centre.

[alum]

Middle is too strong. Needs more water flow, and wider reflectors. Also could do less hours light, and less days before cleaning.
In the midle I used 410nm that for my experiment hehe.. now change to 445nm cause its recomended.
flow water 2000 lt/h, is not enaugh??
Now I add timer for the light. its 24/7 right ?


Looks a lot better than last time. Things are on the up :)
Have you checked your pH? Seems like the centre of the screen is suffering from an excess of something, but can't be light can it? Just trying to poke some holes in the conventional wisdom, no malice intended.
I used to build UAS before and really succed with hair algaes grow, but after I make new ATS now there is no algae attach to UAS screen.

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3644&d=1355268685
This is from my UAS before. Do you think I should to install UAS than ATS ??


This is a one sided screen isn't it? From your UAS thread, it appears it didn't cure your problem, hence the move to a waterfall type scrubber. What does the other side of this screen look like? I'm assuming a bit of algae has grown through the mesh and is also yellow in the centre.
Yes its only one side has the light, and also you are right only one side grow.
I have no idea to add light on the other side cause I use 17watt already (single side) if more than that It will fry enaugh ??

PS: Sorry guys my lack english, I need translate in google sometime hehe

[Garf]

I run mine about 18 hrs on 6 off. So, your LEDs are only 1 watt each? That's a bit underlit for a screen that size isn't it?

[Floyd R Turbo]

I have no idea to add light on the other side cause I use 17watt already (single side) if more than that It will fry enaugh ??


So, your LEDs are only 1 watt each? That's a bit underlit for a screen that size isn't it?

I did not see it mentioned anywhere in this thread that the LEDs were only 1W until the 17w reference. Yeah, that's not enough light.

[Garf]

This would mean the screens got a bit of red around the edges (green) and tiny amounts of red in the centre (yellow). How could this be classified as a burned screen? Conventional wisdom poked :)

[Floyd R Turbo]

Well his screen is also 10x13 = 10 cubes/day if lit right, but right now it is not, so it's oversized and underlit (since I don't think he's feeding 10 cubes/day)

Conventional wisdom would say that yellow is not enough nutrients compared to the amount of light. The answer is to increase the nutrient load and/or increase flow, or decrease screen size to feeding based size. So it still applies :) unpoke.

Right now: 13" wide, pump is 528GPH (I'm assuming that is the rating of the pump) so take 25% off that for head loss and that's 400 GPH / 13 = 30 GPH/in so flow should be enough, but depending on the plumbing diameter and other factors, head loss might be more.

From what I have been seeing, 35 GPH/in is really the bare minimum. Once you have growth started, you should have more like 50 GPH/in (feeding-based screen sizes).

[Garf]

Or reduce screen size and bunch lights together to increase intensity, hey presto ;)

[Floyd R Turbo]

Bingo!

[alum]

Or reduce screen size and bunch lights together to increase intensity, hey presto ;)

Well I dont know if the screen too large to compare amount of the light, is there calculate chart for that?
The problem is, there is no place to add more light on other side. There are fan on that side.

2000 lt/h reduce around 10% I think, Hmax=3m and it is not so high and far from the pump.
And seldom feeding. I let my fishes looking for foods by themself on liverock lol (there are many copepods)
anyway there are only 4 small fishes right now. Usualy I use baby shrimps.

[Garf]

http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj597/Garf1971/c6dfcf087c8818c6338518241b0abdb7_zpseb1b3d30.jpg

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1419-New-sizing-guidelines

[Floyd R Turbo]

My recommendation for LED lighting is this:


After some feedback from users, I have updated my recommendations for LEDs

Still using 660nm Deep Red, technically I use 660-670nm Philips Luxeon EX Bin EX06 I believe (EX07 is 670-680, and you could also use that, but harder to obtain)

Quantity is defined by a range of intensity. When placed approximately 2" from the screen, here is my recommendation for coverage:

Minimum: one 3W @ 700mA on EACH side of every 8 square inches of screen. So if you have a 4x6 screen, which is 24 sq in, that would mean 24/8 = 3 660s on each side.

Maximum: one 3W @ 700mA on EACH side of every 4 square inches of screen. So if you have a 4x6 screen, which is 24 sq in, that would mean 24/4 = 6 660s on each side.

Optional: Supplementation with 440-450nm Royal Blue. These have a much higher radiant flux level than the Deep Reds, so it is rather easy to overpower the screen and cause photosynthetic saturation (I have inaccurately called this "photoinhibition" in the past) which prevents algae from actually growing. I recommend wiring blues in a parallel configuration within the series string of reds so that they act as a current divider and run at 350mA.

However, if you have a fully cured/mature screen, the saturation effect (when running a full power blue) does not seem to be quite as prevalent (though you may still get a bare spot on the screen). Placing some kind of diffuser or light blocker in front of the blue really seems to help.

Either way, I recommend no more than one full current (two half-current) blues for every 6 reds. As of right now I don't have a "minimum" recommendation for blues. I consider them a supplemental source, so you can just put them where they fit in. However, they must be spread out. So that means don't put all the blue in the middle or group them together - this will definitely cause bare spots.

Now trying to reverse this for the number of LEDs and then figuring out what screen size they can support would be easy, except you are using 1W LEDs. So let's just assume total wattage of 17W, and since it's one-sided, let's assume that this must be considered to fall into the "maximum" category.

So 17W would be equivalent to about 6x 3W LEDs. This would mean you would want to reduce your screen down to 24 square inches (4 square inches per 3W LED).

This means that you would want to try to reconfigure your LED array such that the LEDs are much closer together, and try to make them fit into a square that is about 5" x 3", and then make your screen 6" x 4".

The result would be a screen that should be able to support 1 cube of food per day (since it is single sided).

I would also switch to the Darice #7 Plastic Canvas Mesh, significantly roughed up. The material you are using is not ideal.

That's my 2c

[alum]

Why I feel UAS is more simple when I used before and the result gratify:rolleyes:

[Garf]

From my research, the UAS doesn't provide enough biomass to export enough nutrients. I think these only "work" in new tanks where there is a confusion between live rock/sand uptake. My own tank had undetectable N & P for 18 months, with no algal export. Hopefully someone with a UAS will post on the "quantifying biomass" thread.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Oh yeah, I harvested my UAS a few days ago, took video, and weighed it. I just haven't had time to post it. It was actually a pretty good harvest, but still 1/3 to 1/2 of the waterfall...back to the topic...

UAS more simple, yes. Less effective, yes. IMO UAS is good for a small tank or supplemental filtration on a larger tank. The whole biomass thing really does need to be addressed. My UAS grew most of the algae inside the box. Got a good video of it too, and I just fired up Pinnacle Studio 16 so I can stitch together some nice vids for the future

[alum]

From my research, the UAS doesn't provide enough biomass to export enough nutrients. I think these only "work" in new tanks where there is a confusion between live rock/sand uptake. My own tank had undetectable N & P for 18 months, with no algal export. Hopefully someone with a UAS will post on the "q
uantifying biomass" thread.

This is from tank which already running almost 3 years ago ;) only that was too many algae growing on liverocks. It is not new tank syndrome anymore.
I played SPS before my friends bought almost of all.



Oh yeah, I harvested my UAS a few days ago, took video, and weighed it. I just haven't had time to post it. It was actually a pretty good harvest, but still 1/3 to 1/2 of the waterfall...back to the topic...

UAS more simple, yes. Less effective, yes. IMO UAS is good for a small tank or supplemental filtration on a larger tank. The whole biomass thing really does need to be addressed. My UAS grew most of the algae inside the box. Got a good video of it too, and I just fired up Pinnacle Studio 16 so I can stitch together some nice vids for the future

Let say that UAS is beter for smal tank then ATS for large tank, does it ?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Let say that UAS is beter for smal tank then ATS for large tank, does it ?

Yes. In fact I believe that was the target market in the first place - nanos and freshwater tanks where waterfall scrubbers are too bulky or not feasible to build - and they seems to work well in those situations

[alum]

hmm I reassume what I read now
well because my tank abaut 172 gallons with just 4 small fishes in it + various mushroom only,
I will start to add more fishes from now well might be several hardy sps (cause no light in MT yet) we will see how ATS can do.

and ready ROWA carbon to start whenever ATS go down fail lol

[alum]

update ;
Using pump 3000 lt/h.
when it scrubbed i still see yellow algae in screen, hope its back to green.

[SantaMonica]

Clean more often if you see yellow.

[alum]

Clean more often if you see yellow.

SM, Yellowish appear cause too much light? I use 24/7 using timer already, but why people said it is not strong enaught for light???????
anyway now I change almost whole pump even for return pump for new one, more flow and more power! I hope its because of it.


Middle is too strong. Needs more water flow, and wider reflectors. Also could do less hours light, and less days before cleaning.

You said too strong, what too strong ? light???
but Garf and Bud said it is not enaugh.

[SantaMonica]

Bright yellow like banana is from strong light. Dull yellow like beer is from weak light.

[alum]

Bright yellow like banana is from strong light. Dull yellow like beer is from weak light.

Yes its like yellow rotten banana.
Ok I just dont get it, sorry my lack english make me confuse sometime..

Thank's SM, be back later.

[SantaMonica]

Rotten banana is brown. That is weak light.

[alum]

I forgot yesterday to shoot a pic while I clean up and change pump.
the color is yellow in the middle and green at the edge of screen.

[SantaMonica]

Well, that is usually too much light in the middle. Add iron, increase flow, or put a diffuser on the light.

If you cannot do these, then move the light back 10 cm. Last thing to try is 2 less hours light per day.

[Garf]

You shouldn't be lighting it 24/7 for a start, but Floyd has already mentioned that. Why do you have a timer if you leave the lights on all the time? Confused tbh.

[alum]

Update:
removing the black coating on the walls of containers for better defusser.


You shouldn't be lighting it 24/7 for a start, but Floyd has already mentioned that. Why do you have a timer if you leave the lights on all the time? Confused tbh.

I am using 24/8.

DIY DC timer with relay.

[Floyd R Turbo]

What he meant what do not have the lights "ON" 24 hours/day

[alum]

Probably its too closer to the light.
ok, thank's guys!