algea moved from screen to display

[greenmachine]

Hi all, well over the last month my display starting growing algae like crazy! All kinds of algae too,bubble,hair,film and red bubble algae. This tank had NO algae in it for the last 3 years! The algae on the scrubber has dwindled down to almost nothing during this same time..? NOTHING has changed in my system OR in the scrubber. Same creatures,same light,same flow,same dosing,same feeding,same everything for more than a year. The only thing I can think of is that the "plant grow LED light bulbs" that I installed well over a year ago have somehow faded???? I have switched the bulbs out for two 26 watt PAR38 CFL reflector floods in hopes this works. Does anyone have any ideas on what else could cause a shift in algae from scrubber to display?

[rleahaines]

Your scrubber light may have been the cause as you suspect. Or you may have a change in water flow or lighting in your display.

The most likely cause is a spike in nutrients causing a spike in Nitrates and P.

Something might have died in your tank and lots of additional nutrients are now in the water.

[SantaMonica]

Screen pics would help.

Check your top off water.

[greenmachine]

my TDS meter reads 0 (but not sure if I trust it) I cleaned the screen already but it started yellowing in the middle and the yellow started making its way out to the edges over the course of the last month looked like a bullseye. I found this very strange because the lights and everything have not changed for more than a year. I will post pics soon when it starts to re-grow!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Pics!
Here are a few of your previous threads, which one is current?

CFLs and LEDs: http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?2161-my-scrubber-pics-please-critique

LEDs only: http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?2263-santa-help-me!-re-design-my-sump-scrubber-please!

I also saw a bunch of 2 or 3 post threads with pics of growth, etc. Some of them looked like you had good growth but some bare spots in the middle.

Need pics of current growth whenever you can get them. I would recommend minimal cleaning. Just let it grow. When you clean each week, just clean the top of the screen where you insert it into the slot, and then rub the rest of the screen with your fingertips to loosen any poorly attached growth, and put it back on. Also if you're having problems with growth coming back after cleaning, clean the screen in a shallow pan of tank water instead of freshwater. Do not clean the screen fully every week, let it go at least 2 weeks, then clean one side every 7-10 days, leaving the other side to grow.

That's just my take based loosely on the problem you described.

[greenmachine]

floyd, the second set titled (led's only) is the set-up I am running now.

[Floyd R Turbo]

how often are you cleaning?

[greenmachine]

I clean every sunday. Most times I clean both sides but I use a sawzall blade with large teeth that does NOT remove all the algae just the loose stuff. This scrubber was growing and working so very well for so very long and this month kablam,,,,tons of algae in display and tons of yellow on screen,,,,,strange....? I am wondering if there is something that I am missing because I have never herd of LED's having a major color shift in such a short time. I think I will reinstall the LED bulbs and post some pics every few days.

[greenmachine]

p.s. would it be wise to just order up 10 rebel66o and 2 royal blues from rapidled and replace my china lights?

[SantaMonica]

Screen pics.

[greenmachine]

here is the screen after a deep cleaning yesterday and a few shots of the display algae. The display was covered in this stuff but I removed most of it by hand.

[greenmachine]

this is how much new life spectrum I feed. I do this 3 times per day. MY screen is 6" x 9" I will measure flow rate later but It used to be around 300gph (gravity fed from return of overflow)

[greenmachine]

o yea and the display....sorry about the blur my camera has been dropped several times lol That dark gravel you see at the bottom is not gravel its bubble algae!

[greenmachine]

here are some pics of the one year old led grow bulbs I was using. They contain twelve 1.7 watt leds each. Here you can also see how well the light the bathroom (no flash) They each contain 8 660 red and 4 royal blue. I bought them on ebay last year for $40 ea. and they grew algae like mad for the longest time.(maybe they still will?)

[Floyd R Turbo]

So I take it that you took out the LEDs and put in the CFL floodlights to take the pics on post #11?

Honestly I don't know if this lamp "went bad" or what. Typically, LEDs do not shift spectrum. LEDs, at least the red ones, are element based instead of phosphor based, and the elements simply don't change composition. What they can do is lose intensity, and that is why they have a rating called the L70 date. This is the timeframe in which the LED output drops to 70% of it's initial output, and is typically about 50,000 hours. So this lamp should still be good for years. Not sure what is going on here.

If you switched to the CFLs thinking that the LEDs went bad, and wanted to try that theory out, I would only change one of them - leave one LED lamp on one side. That way you 1) can see if one makes a difference and 2) there might be a slightly different strain of algae that is preferably grown by the LED vs CFL, and switching both over at the same time might create a different issue also.

[greenmachine]

floyd: I swapped the LED's for CFL's thinking that the LED must be bad ,,that was only a day ago. I am now doubting myself. I will try one of each like you said. While I am working on the system does everything look ok? size? flow? number of/watts of lighting? I would like to make sure everything is up to snuff while I have the time!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yeah, everything does seem OK. When did you clean the pump last?

[SantaMonica]

The lights are fine. Just brush out the screen with a wire brush to remove all the stuff from the holes, and let it grow for 14 days.

You are probably cleaning it too soon.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just brush out the screen with a wire brush to remove all the stuff from the holes, and let it grow for 14 days.

I don't agree with this, doing a hard cleaning will only allow for tank algae to have longer crack at the nutrients while the scrubber recovers. As best I would do this to only 1/4 of the screen on each cleaning.


let it grow for 14 days.

This I agree with this


You are probably cleaning it too soon.

Growth can change over time and screens should really be cleaned when they need it, not when it is necessarily X number of days. This might not be the only reason, but probably is one. Did you notice the growth shifting over from one type to another over the last few months, or did you notice the growth not being as thick, etc?

[greenmachine]

well the growth started out as what I called "yellow paint skin" a year ago but quickly changed to nice light green fluffy hair algae. Then I'd say about 2-3 months ago the algae turned to dark green "turf" algae. The "turf" was VERY hearty and hard to remove hence the "sawzall blade" . The turf started to get a yellow spot in the center of it about a month ago. The yellow spot grew and grew as the display got more and more algae..


by the way guys...thank you for all your help!!!!

[greenmachine]

p.s. santa,,,I have plenty of plastic canvas and pvc so I can easily change the screen to a brand new one. I could even make it wider and shorter so I could put 4 lamps rather than 2.

Floyd,,,I can also leave things alone and try to let it grow and grow.

I am going to let you two experts fight that one out lol lol...

O and I did change ONE thing about 6 months ago,,the timer that controlled the scrubber lights broke so I changed it,,at that time I may have changed "when" the lights come on and off but the have always come on for 16 hrs and still do

[Floyd R Turbo]

Here is a possible theory. Your algae was growing well and pulling nutrients out of the tank. Then over time, your tank got 'cleaner' and your scrubber became oversized. Lighting stayed the same, so now too much light and not enough nutrients caused the growth to turn yellow. This yellow growth could have been a sign of photosaturation, meaning there is not enough nutrients to support additional growth, so the algae basically "bleaches" or "burns" - there is not enough consistent "food" supply to the algae, just trace amounts. This allowed algae in the tank to slowly and consistently take up nutrients in that lower light environment.

Now the kicker is that, if this theory is true, then you actually need to reduce the hours of exposure on the screen. You are basically running a 4 cube/day screen and not feeding nearly 4 cubes/day, and running LED light at 16 hours/day, and LEDs are generally much more intense and spectrum focused, so you should need less hours/day. So that is a double-whammy on the screen.

Again, if this is true, then going back to the LED lights and reducing the hours to 9 hours/day would allow the algae to grow and adsorb the nutrients that have built up throughout the day, but the photoperiod would not be long enough to result in saturation and burning/bleaching.

Another thing, have you removed any of the optics from that LED PAR lamp? you can take the front bezel off and remove them. If not, I might suggest removing the blue optics only, as the blues are likely the culprit in the burning.

The other option is to run CFLs at the standard 18 hours/day.

[greenmachine]

good stuff floyd! I just may try and remove the optics. any tips on how its done? don't want to destroy a $40 bulb...

[Floyd R Turbo]

I hear it's really easy. Remove the screws that hold the front bezel on and I think the optics just pop right off.

[greenmachine]

cool thanks

[joelespinoza]

When was the last time you added iron or did a water change?

Floyd is probably right, but it is possible that you simply ran low on something that the hair algae growing in your filter needed more of then the other random species of algae that are cropping up.

Measure your phosphates and nitrates and make sure neither is at zero with the other up high, dose some iron, try what floyd said and if none of that works, drop your old screen flat in your sump under the light (so the algae on it doesnt die), and start a new screen seeded from any hair algae that is growing well in your tank.

I might be completely wrong, but its something to try if all else fails.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Also maybe check Potassium. Salifert K is a good kit

[greenmachine]

I have a few old rusty pure iron nuts in my sump for iron. I checked my flow today It's 225 GPH so that should be good for my 6" screen right? I did a pretty big water change about 3 months ago (forget why). Is there any food that will contain potassium and does salt mix contain it? rather not buy a test kit. Floyd I removed the optics on the blue led's,thanks!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Salt mix does contain it, or else when I filled a 220 a few months back, it would have tested zero instead of 400. plants in general uptake N P and K, so we all test for N and P for the obvious reasons (waste, etc) but K is largely ignored. Scrubbers can pull it down and that can lead to a limitation scenario. People have literally dosed K and watched P drop in a low N tank. Just keep it in the back of your mind.

[greenmachine]

ok will do. was thinking of cutting my screen down to 5"x8" rather than the current 6"x9" and maybe widening the slot from 1/8" to maybe 3/16" to grab a little more flow IF you think this would be advisable ??? If no il let it be and it must be user error:)

I cant take a pic now but the screen is growing mostly "yellow paint skin" with 1/4" patches of dark green turf as of now on both the cfl and led sides.

[greenmachine]

ok well I trimmed the screen slightly and reamed out the slot slightly. I also ordered a new pair of LED lamps(just to be sure). I also ordered all new RO/DI filters. How long or thick should I let the algae get before cleaning now? And when should I see the algae in the display start to fade away?