THICK peeling scrub with pictures!

[chriswf]

FRESHWATER:

Okay, whew I went maybe up to a week OVER my usual harvest days.
HEAVIEST/most abundant amount of algae ever. The screen felt like it was easily 10+lbs, with a very slow water drip (most water had dripped out).


Basically, I'm not getting detachment. But when I go to harvest, I can just grab the bottom, and peel upwards and it comes right off. Long strips of it.
In some of the pictures, the screen mesh imprint can be seen in the algae. The strips are tight clumps.
And yeah, one of those pictures is like 90% of my big harvest in the toilet :D

4553455445554556455745584559

It just recently started doing this on a new tank I put it on.
After I peel it all off, I still have small batches of algae hair left on the screen, so regrowth can complete in a week like usual.



Should I even be worrying about this? Or should I just enjoy what I have?

[chriswf]

Oh, and when I flushed the toilet, it was VERY slow (compared to normal flush speed).

The algae was so thick the siphon had trouble pulling it through heheh.

[SantaMonica]

Seems like it's doing just fine...

[Floyd R Turbo]

That's great, as long as you don't get detachment, keep doing what you're doing!

[chriswf]

Awesome!
Thanks guys!

Water qualities are amazing right now. So, go with it I guess!

[walleyefisher]

Chris - I have some questions for you;

What additional filtration are you doing?
Are you using any carbon?
How long are you running the lights per day?
How long between your water changes?

Thanks

[chriswf]

filtration - just a sponge filter on my pump so fry dont get sucked in.

carbon - nope

lights - 18 hrs

once a month maybe on water changes, but only to siphon poop/waste out.

[walleyefisher]

Well that blows a theory I had regarding this type of algae. I too have this algae growing on one of my aquariums.

How big is your tank? Whats the bio load?

[chriswf]

2 45 gallon tanks, 1 is above the other.
connected by bulkheads and plumbing.

The top tank has zebra danios and glofish.

The bottom tank has convicts I cant get rid of yet (legally of course).

And then theres a stand alone ATS (waterfall) above it, that I made out of a hollowed out plexiglass sump. The screen is a little bigger than 12x12.

I also dosed my aquariums with salt recently - where I hadnt been using it before.
I use aquarium salt with the danios like you do for platy/guppies. Supposed to help they say.

Convicts eat hikkari gold pellets for now.
Danios eat flakes.
I feed small amounts a few times a day. No food goes uneaten in either tank. the danios search the bottom of the tank all day for food/eggs/fry (of which they eat)

[chriswf]

6 or 7 convicts. Probably 6 or 7 small danios. 45g is really overkill for 7 danios LOL.

[walleyefisher]

Thanks for answering my questions. I have 3 FW aquariums with scrubbers and have had good success with them in managing nitrates. Previously all were growing the long and stringy algae that breaks off and gets into everything (which I use a filter sock for). However, recently I have had one aquarium grow algae like you pictured in your post. Also, this aquarium has gone slightly cloudy (white) so I’m thinking a bacteria bloom is happening. This indicates to me that the scrubber is no longer affectively removing ammonia/nitrites/nitrates. I believe that this leather like algae is nowhere near as effective as the stringy algae counterpart for removing nutrients.

So I’m trying to identify what could be different or what has changed?? I did add carbon to my canister filter a while back and it wasn’t long after that that string turned to leathery so my first culprit will be that variable. Since I have not checked my nitrate reading lately I’m not sure if that is the culprit or not. I was thinking if the bioload isn’t high enough perhaps the algae grows thick and leathery because it doesn’t have enough nutrients to support the growth.

I will be doing a full round of tests and report back what I find if anything is conclusive.

[chriswf]

Thanks for answering my questions. I have 3 FW aquariums with scrubbers and have had good success with them in managing nitrates. Previously all were growing the long and stringy algae that breaks off and gets into everything (which I use a filter sock for). However, recently I have had one aquarium grow algae like you pictured in your post. Also, this aquarium has gone slightly cloudy (white) so I’m thinking a bacteria bloom is happening. This indicates to me that the scrubber is no longer affectively removing ammonia/nitrites/nitrates. I believe that this leather like algae is nowhere near as effective as the stringy algae counterpart for removing nutrients.

So I’m trying to identify what could be different or what has changed?? I did add carbon to my canister filter a while back and it wasn’t long after that that string turned to leathery so my first culprit will be that variable. Since I have not checked my nitrate reading lately I’m not sure if that is the culprit or not. I was thinking if the bioload isn’t high enough perhaps the algae grows thick and leathery because it doesn’t have enough nutrients to support the growth.

I will be doing a full round of tests and report back what I find if anything is conclusive.

Wait!

I had the stringy detachment stuff before. That I ALSO had to use a filter sock for (I no longer need to).

It would come off throughout the ENTIRE week of growth! So I put a filter sock that kind of dangled in the water. Sometimes my dovii would find ways to rip the sock off because the algae would tumble around inside the sock and they'd see it's shadow. (Dovii get pretty big, so no clump of algae is intimidating to them).

----------------------

Here's where my experience is different:
Well first, my dovii were in a 200g tank. SAME screen (but I cut it down smaller for this convict/danio tank), and the dovii screen was in a larger plexi sump.
2-2.5" of gravel.
(My current tanks have less than half an inch of fine gravel lol)

OKAY I got white film on my glass in my PREVIOUS tank (200g), while it was stringy!
Opposite of you!

My water is crystal clear now (with the 2 45Gs). No debris float in the center/no cloud. They either fall to the bottom or they're filtered in the prefilter sponge (on the pump) or the algae scrubber.

And sometimes when I rinse the algae scrubber out, it can be dirty if I wash it in standing water.


SO - for me:
Strips of clumped algae = excellent water conditions - no cloudiness.
Long hair thin algae = decent water conditions (hard to tell though, bigger tank, but also bigger scrubber screen), and white film on display glass, all around, even out of light (easy to wipe off).


I think it's neat to talk to other freshwater ATS people. Not many of us on here.


By the way:
Every 2-4 weeks, usually I don't need to change the water. My test strips and liquid tests turn out fine, so I top-off water to my tank (when the water level is low), AND scrub/clean my screen. In the following morning, I can bump up to like 8 in nitrates I believe, but I it'll drop back down in a day or so.

I'm find with 8, I once had a tank that was like 200ppm I think (when I first got into the hobby). Believe it or not, I managed to raise some fry in that tank...

[chriswf]

Oh, here's some pictures of my filter sock in it's worst state (no joke it had to be cleaned every 2 or 3 days), and the film on my glass...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/psychoninja911/algae%20scrubber/2013-02-17_18-21-58_548_zpsfdd18a62.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/psychoninja911/algae%20scrubber/2013-02-17_18-22-23_856_zps5a281475.jpg

and the sock:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/psychoninja911/algae%20scrubber/2013-02-17_18-21-36_319_zps042d83f8.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/psychoninja911/algae%20scrubber/2013-02-17_18-21-17_110_zpsd8fa27d0.jpg

Maybe the sock pushes stuff out of the algae that creates film? I really don't know.

[Andy_cy]

Hi guys, I would like to join in this discussion. I have a 200L fw tank now with a diy waterfall scrubber. Haven't had the best results even after 3 months. My nitrates sit at around 50ppm now.

Previously, I was getting nice thin green hair growth, they detach easily throughout the week of growth, and my filter net will catch it. It's quite a lot actually, more than what I see on your filter sock. However, nitrates weren't going down still..

Currently, my screen doesn't grow that type of nice stringy bright green hair anymore. I get a dark brown stubby hair growth, with some dark green spots randomly. I decided not to clean it for 2 weeks, and the green spots grew bigger but it's not the thin hair type. So I cleaned the screen, it weighed a lot after 2 weeks not cleaning it. Got the most harvest ever but nitrates still at 50ppm.

Before I had an ATS, my nitrates were over 100ppm. I've been using warm white LEDs but have placed an order for some red/blue 3w chips. Hopefully, changing my lights will help increase the efficiency of nutrient exportation.

May I know what type of lights you use for your FW scrubbers?

[importspeed]

Hello. I am wondering how old your scrubber screens are, and at about what age did they change their properties?

[Andy_cy]

Hello. I am wondering how old your scrubber screens are, and at about what age did they change their properties?

My screen started to change maybe after about 6-8 weeks old. Can't really remember, but it was very depressing haha. I believe mine is lack of light, so I'm interested to know what lights you guys are using to produce these nice green growths.

[importspeed]

I originally started by using a compact florescent in my submerged horizontal and it would grow a very light amount of gha but mostly brown. I have since switched to a red kessil h150, with this light i tried different light cycles, but have since switched to 24/7 lighting. Before switching to 24/7 I could not grow gha with this light (only very dark slimy algae), but about three weeks ago (3-4 months since originally started) i switched to 24/7 and the gha has took off like a rocket. Now i pretty much have to completely scrub half my screen clean with a brush and go over the other half with my fingertips every 4 days, if i wait longer i start to get detachment.

[Andy_cy]

So your scrubber is on a 24-hr photoperiod now? I'm confused, I thought the algae need at least a few hours of rest to enhance its growth? Or maybe this specific type of FW algae prefers 24/7 lighting? Any insights?

[importspeed]

That is what I thought, ive tried 12hrs, 16hrs, 19hrs, 21hrs, and the more hours I went up the more algae would produce, but i didnt get gha until i said screw it and took my light off the timer, now i have to scrub half my screen bare and trim the other half every 4 days, and it is the most growth I have ever had. I dont know if it is just my particular setup or what but the 24 hour lighting seems too work the best.

[importspeed]

Do keep in mind that my screen is submerged and horizontal, it isn't a waterfall like yours. I don't know if this makes a difference.

[chriswf]

I have a vertical waterfall algae scrubber.

I use 3watt 660nm (red) Leds, with 1 blue in the center of about 6 reds.

I bought my power supply from Rapid LED.
My Blues were bought from Rapid LED.
My reds are bought from all over. I mix it up. Some of my reds are 660-670.

18/hr photo period.


My screen has been active for 4 or 5 months, before that it was active for 1 year.
1 month inactive period (between the 1 year and the 4 or 5 month period I'm on now).



The white LEDs might be burning your screen giving you the brown stuff. I don't know though.
As they told me, pictures help. Even though I can't identify problems really, I just got lucky and mine works.

Also be sure to remove all the detached algae that you can. The algae is your nitrates, and if it starts to decay again, it releases all that back into your water.
It might not be sticking if your screen isn't rough enough.

[Andy_cy]

Hmm.. Come to think of it, the first week upon setting up of my scrubber, I had lights on 24/7. Only after week 2, I switched to 18 hours lighting. It gave me nice GHA but only at about week 6-7 onwards did the brown start to take over. I might try 24/7 for these few days, since I've just cleaned my screen fully.

So your setup is an up flow type, fully submerged? And you clean only one side, alternatively every 4 days?

[chriswf]

I clean both at the sides at the same time. Small pieces stay attached to the screen, enough to grow back in a week. I can usually see through my screen pretty good after a cleaning.
My waterfall isn't submerged, but water runs over the ENTIRE screen yes.

Also, I hear you don't do 24/7 lighting.
The reason is "you can't trick nature" they say. The algae needs to rest.

Maybe with those very bright whites, you need LESS photo period?

Here's mine:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/psychoninja911/algae%20scrubber/IMG_20130704_211831_791_zps413671bf.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/psychoninja911/algae%20scrubber/IMG_20130704_211825_994_zps6276f7d5.jpg

The purple/pinkness comes from my blue/red LEDs.

[Andy_cy]

I have a vertical waterfall algae scrubber.

I use 3watt 660nm (red) Leds, with 1 blue in the center of about 6 reds.

I bought my power supply from Rapid LED.
My Blues were bought from Rapid LED.
My reds are bought from all over. I mix it up. Some of my reds are 660-670.

18/hr photo period.


My screen has been active for 4 or 5 months, before that it was active for 1 year.
1 month inactive period (between the 1 year and the 4 or 5 month period I'm on now).



The white LEDs might be burning your screen giving you the brown stuff. I don't know though.
As they told me, pictures help. Even though I can't identify problems really, I just got lucky and mine works.

Also be sure to remove all the detached algae that you can. The algae is your nitrates, and if it starts to decay again, it releases all that back into your water.
It might not be sticking if your screen isn't rough enough.

I have my pics on another thread, under the scrubber discussions.

I doubt my lights are burning a hole, in fact I think they're not strong enough. Hopefully when my LEDs arrive, things will change.

I have a very rough screen, I'm pretty sure of it :) the GHA fell of because I think there isn't enough space to grow on. I do remove the fallen algae, on a daily basis. Still quite frustrated to not achieve low nitrates like yours. I hope it's lighting problem, otherwise I'm out of ideas..

[Andy_cy]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/psychoninja911/algae%20scrubber/IMG_20130704_211825_994_zps6276f7d5.jpg



How big is this screen? Is it the slightly larger than 12x12" one?

Yours looks good, there's no problem right? Haha it seems to be giving you what you need, the zero nitrates.

[importspeed]

Hmm.. Come to think of it, the first week upon setting up of my scrubber, I had lights on 24/7. Only after week 2, I switched to 18 hours lighting. It gave me nice GHA but only at about week 6-7 onwards did the brown start to take over. I might try 24/7 for these few days, since I've just cleaned my screen fully.

So your setup is an up flow type, fully submerged? And you clean only one side, alternatively every 4 days?

My screen submerged in about 4 inches of water in a Rubbermaid container fed by my overflow (estimating 900gph with head loss). I have a red kessil h150 about 4-5inches above the surface of the water shining straight down on the screen.

I completely clean (with scrubbing brush) half the screen(both sides of the screen), then the other half of the screen i rub my fingers over the algae just to remove any algae that is weak and then i put it back in the Rubbermaid container. I alternate this every 4 days.

If I were to clean my screen fully I would suspect that i would need to clean it every 8-10 days because of less "seeding algae" left on the screen, but i will not do this unless i have to because it will not filter as well during the first 4 days.

[chriswf]

Yeah this is my slightly larger than 12x12 screen :D

I don't have anything to measure it with right now, and I'm about to leave for work. But it does the job.

[importspeed]

Hey chris, how old was your screen when your algae turned into this algae that peels off?

[chriswf]

Just a little over a week usually. Hard to time a 7 day cleaning period perfectly with work and other hobbies :P

Usually not over a week and 3 days though.

Edit: It usually clogs my slit or cut in my pipe around 2 weeks. So I'll get very uneven growth, detachment in HUGE clumps, or dead spots after 2 weeks (and a huge spike in nitrates as well).

[importspeed]

Has your screen always had this type of algae then?

[Andy_cy]

If I were to clean my screen fully I would suspect that i would need to clean it every 8-10 days because of less "seeding algae" left on the screen, but i will not do this unless i have to because it will not filter as well during the first 4 days.

I totally agree with you on this. Somehow full cleaning comprises the regrowth period, at least for FW algae. Like you said, some seeding has to be there.

[importspeed]

exactly and i need the best filtering i can get considering my screen is one sided. haha :)

[chriswf]

I don't know if it's different algae or what. Like by species? I honestly don't know.

Before my algae was very thing hairs, that when I scrubbed off, they wouldn't stay in clumps any bigger than a quarter.

Now they peel off, in strips. Some strips wider than 4".
Not sure if my water and fish "slime" additive is making it do this or not...

But the clumping is newish. Since I started my scrubber 4 or 5 months ago.
And again, it's a different tank. Different fish/bio load. Close to the same ATS setup.

[importspeed]

Ok so how the algae is acting now is newish. lol that was what i was asking. I also assume that it may be a different species but you could be right about it being one of the additives causing it to "peel". I personalty wish my algae would peel because it is a pain having to use a credit card to scrape what i have and then use a brush. :)
As long as your parameters look good keep up whatever you are doing.

[Andy_cy]

Previously, when my screen had bright green hair, they did grow thick, but did not peel.

Now, shifting to thick brown algae, I realise it peel off in sheets too.

It does look to me, that some sort of base layer has formed to hold the algae in sheets/clumps. Perhaps is due to age, that the algae eventually forms a layer at the roots to help cling on better?

@chris
How much nitrates did you have before you had the scrubber installed and achieve a zero point?

[chriswf]

Previously, when my screen had bright green hair, they did grow thick, but did not peel.

Now, shifting to thick brown algae, I realise it peel off in sheets too.

It does look to me, that some sort of base layer has formed to hold the algae in sheets/clumps. Perhaps is due to age, that the algae eventually forms a layer at the roots to help cling on better?

@chris
How much nitrates did you have before you had the scrubber installed and achieve a zero point?

They were high when I first introduced the scrubber... I had to do periodic water changes.

For me, my scrubbers don't necessarily take nitrates down, they just maintain them so I can cut back on water changes by a LOT - if not ONLY add water.

But I've been in the 200ppm before, and I just did 50% water changes, and monitored the water quality during those times.
So get nitrates to 0, then let the scrubber keep it low (for me 0-8 at worst).

[Andy_cy]

Your scrubber is working at it's best. It's removing nitrates at a rate almost equivalent to the rate produced. My scrubber has a long way to go. I hope the new lights will help.

Any idea what's the rate of your nitrate production? I.e. nitrates read 200ppm, 50% pwc weekly, therefore your tank produces 100ppm per week.

I think mine produces 50-80ppm per week.

[Andy_cy]

2 days with lights on for 24/7 and I can see more greens outgrowing the brown. But the greens are different, not the usual strandy GHA, they are stiffer and less 3D.

Tested my nitrates today and got a shocking 10-15ppm reading. Just before I started the 2-day 24/7 photoperiod, nitrates tested to be 50ppm. It seems like it does make a difference!

However, even if these algae don't need a rest, my LEDs do. Touched them and it was burning hot.

[importspeed]

2 days with lights on for 24/7 and I can see more greens outgrowing the brown. But the greens are different, not the usual strandy GHA, they are stiffer and less 3D.

Tested my nitrates today and got a shocking 10-15ppm reading. Just before I started the 2-day 24/7 photoperiod, nitrates tested to be 50ppm. It seems like it does make a difference!

However, even if these algae don't need a rest, my LEDs do. Touched them and it was burning hot.


As i was saying, I did not have any green until I switched my lights to a 24/7 photoperiod, I did not know you would have the same results but i am glad you did :). I suspect that once your nitrates are below 5ppm you may need to give the algae some dark time anyway or make the screen smaller. I do not know for sure (I am still learning myself, just sort of makes sense to me)

[SantaMonica]

All algae needs dark time. It's just that your lights are not too strong, and as one strand goes behind another it gets shaded. If the light were stronger, it would not get as much shade.