Diagonal 1-sided ATS

[Kamikolopopo]

Hello,

My name is Robert and this is my first post on this forum.
After reading an article in the dutch marine magazine my interest was drawn to the ATS filter and i think this would be a great addition to my current system.

After alot more of reading and measuring i've desided i can fit a scrren that's about 40 x 20 cm in my filter cabinet. My only issue is that the ATS can't make any sound, because my aquarium is positioned in my bedroom and the ATS is mainly active when the display lighting is off. (so when i am sleeping)
In my mind a diagonal screen makes less sound then a vertical screen, the downside to diagonal is that i can only run it lighted from 1 side.

I want to light it with a self made led with solderless leds and in the color defined in the faq.

My question to you guys/galls is: Are my thoughts correct? Is there an other build that is silent and 2-sided lighted or isn't diagonal that silent at all?

[kotlec]

Diagonal is silent if end of screen is submerged. Only subtle gurgling can be heard that isnt distracting at all.
Mine is almost vertical.

[Floyd R Turbo]

You can make make the screen so that the roughed-up area (which will grow the algae) has an additional area of smooth screen (not roughed up) above and below it. So you would have (in order from top to bottom) slot pipe, smooth screen (perhaps 2-5cm), then the roughed-up area, then more smooth screen (enough to extend 2cm below the sump's water surface).

Then, you can drape the entire screen in thin plastic (like Saran wrap, or something similar) and this will keep the water flow on the screen and silent.

What I would do is try a very quick mock-up using a plain screen (not roughed up), slot pipe, and plastic wrap so you can verify it works to your satisfaction. Remember that a bare screen will not have the same flow across it - the water flow will 'stream' together instead of flowing across it in an even sheet. It takes at least a few days for a 'slime' coating to build up on the screen and make the flow even out - so this will just be a very rough test.

[SantaMonica]

In a waterfall, the water pump will probably be the loudest, but of course the scrubber needs to go on top. If you want to try an floating surface scrubber, you can put the air pump in another room; then you adjust the bubble flow for silence.

[Kamikolopopo]

@kotlec @Floyd R Turbo

Thanks for the fast responses.

@SantaMonica
I've been checking your site SantaMonica and i like the simplicity of the surface scrubbers. Which type would you recommend for a 500 liter tank with mainly sps and moderate amount of fish. (feed 1-2 blocks artemia and some green stuff for the tangs) I don't have much algea problems and want it mainly for bio stabilisation and the small animals that thrive inside it.
The unit also seems very passive as i can see it, i get the air bubbles make the water move, but is there also another pump that pushes water trough the device?

[SantaMonica]

The bubbles move the water through it. It very violently turbulent inside the box, as far as the air-water interface goes, which is what matters. Moving more water through it does not help.

You can do a 4 X 6" box with strings and textures. The light will need to be dense, and a good fit, to keep it silent.

[Kamikolopopo]

After some thought I decided to not half-ass this and make myself a good waterfall scrubber.

I've made this design i have included in this post and would really appreciate it if you can provide me with some feedback on the design.
I'm unsure about the amount of LED's need for a screen that's 350x300mm.
I was thinking about this LED http://www.rapidled.com/solderless-philips-rebel-es-660nm-deep-red-led/
4868

Thanks in advance

[SantaMonica]

Nice work. Since you built it already, let's go with it. (If you had not built it, I'd say keep the inside growth width 40 mm, for a 20 mm per side).

For average nutrients, filtering and flow, I'd put one LED every 11 mm center-to-center; for higher nutrients and filtering, every 7 mm.

[Kamikolopopo]

Thanks for the fast response. I haven't build it yet so everything is possible now. The inside compartment I designed now is 70mm

Isn't 11mm center-center not a bit close? that's 30 leds a row right? or am doing it wrong?

I am also wondering what the preferred diameter of the pvc piping containing the canvas would be, i calculated a ø32mm for the moment.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think that is a typo (11mm)

Regardless, your LED quantity should be based on your screen dimensions.

For "normal" lighting (what I would consider the minimum quantity) you want one 660nm on each side of every 8 sq in (50 sq cm) of screen. For "high" lighting, every 4 sq in (25 sq cm).

So for your 1050 sq cm screen that's: 1050 / 50 = 21 per side (42 total) or 1050/25 = 42 per side (84 total).

You will need diffusers in front of the array, especially if the LEDs are 2" away, which is looks like they will be. You can likely take those off after you get a base of growth.

In looking at those number I now see that your screen is huge - 13" x 11" - that's enough for 12 cubes/day of feeding are you really feeding that much?? If not, how much are you feeding?

[Kamikolopopo]

@Floyd R Turbo Thanks for the response, that ratio of LED/sq. sm sounds great and i'll try and stick to it.
I am making a fishonly tank, with minimal softies to make it a better display, I think i will be feeding around 3-4 cubes and somepinches of flakes a day when the tank is fully stocked. Can a screen be too big for a fish tank or can i just let it run less hours?

[Floyd R Turbo]

The answer to both of the questions is yes. Your screen can be too big, but you can run it less hours and that will offset it a bit, but you are only really filtering when the lights are on also.

However think about this in terms of cost. If you're only feeding 3-4 cubes/day, I would consider downsizing the screen to a maximum of 2x what you are planning on feeding. This means your screen can be nearly half the size, thus half the LEDs (that is the biggest cost) and now probably a smaller pump (less heat/power). Your scrubber will take up less room and the LEDs would be on for a longer period, meaning filtration is active longer per day.

You can also just build it to your feeding and then build a second unit if you want to feed more or add more fish, and 2 is better than one as you can alternate cleaning. You might even try building the unit as a dual screen unit, and only use one screen. You would make a left side and a right side, and just cut the slot in the pipe for one side and use the LEDs only on that side. Then if you want to add more filtration, you just cut a new slot for 2 side-by-side screens and wire up the other set of LEDs.

[SantaMonica]

Was supposed to be 7 cm and 11 cm.

[Kamikolopopo]

Okey i've made the whole screen smaller, 25x20cm=500sq. cm. The top bit will be inside the pvc and the bottom in the water so I will get an active bit of app. 400 sq. cm. That should be enough for 3-4 cubes of feeding a day.

I choose for 12 LED's a side, because the ratio over the screen is nice like this and they can easely fit on 1 driver.
Any comments on this are appreciated, are these leds good enough?

4869

[SantaMonica]

Looks good; happy building...

[Kamikolopopo]

All parts are ordered and building should start soon.

Can i still use the UV-light or will it affect the scrubber in a negative way?

[Floyd R Turbo]

no UV

[Kamikolopopo]

Took a little while for the LED's to arrive, but they are here now and after a visit to the hardware store i had enough to finish the lighting fixtures.

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Wiring it up tonight so they are finished and then I need to find a shop who can sell me the canvas, haven't found it in the hardware store. Also need to figure out how i can get the waterfall silent ...

[SantaMonica]

That's a giant heat sink :)

[Kamikolopopo]

In order to get the waterfall silent, will it work to put a plastic bag over the screen? or will this hinder the growth?

[Floyd R Turbo]

It will not hinder growth, in fact I've actually seen it help growth. It sort of creates a flexible 3-D enclosure. It's not as good as a 3D box type scrubber, but it definitely won't hinder growth

[Kamikolopopo]

Hey again,

After I heard I had to find a new cash flow my aquarium builds have been put on a hold, but now everything is stable and i want to continue with this filter as i still think it is very viable.
I am no longer going to put any corals in the tank, but just big fish. Which will lead to more feeding and more nutrients to grow on the ats.

I currently have a UV-sterrilizer equipped to prevent itch and keep the water crystal clear, can a UV-sterrilizer work together with a ATS or will it influent the ATS?
The current setup will be: Overflow>UV-Ster.>Skimmer>ATS>Sump, within the sump is also a remote dsb.

[SantaMonica]

Yes the UV is ok with the scrubber.