ATS integrated to sump - please advice!

[Daniel Decourt]

Hello!

I'm Daniel, from Brazil, this is my first post here.

I'm planning one sump with an ATS integrated and I'd like to know your opinion.

The tank size will be 24 x 20 x 12

The sump size will be 24 x 18 x 15

The ATS screen size will be 18 x 6

I'm thinking in using 3 Ecoxotic Stunner LED strips, do you think it's light enough?

The water comes from the tank, go inside the box and falls down to the scrubber.

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/danielname/Novo%20projeto%20aquario%202013%202014/Imagem1_zps07db8e62.png (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/danielname/media/Novo%20projeto%20aquario%202013%202014/Imagem1_zps07db8e62.png.html)

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/danielname/Novo%20projeto%20aquario%202013%202014/Imagem2_zps08add689.png (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/danielname/media/Novo%20projeto%20aquario%202013%202014/Imagem2_zps08add689.png.html)

Thanks!

[SantaMonica]

Welcome,

The light is probably ok, but I can't see how water get to the screen.

Are you feeding a lot?

[Daniel Decourt]

This sump doesn't exist, I'm planning yet =)

Is it too much screen for that tank size? I won't feed a lot.

Here's another pic with the water flow. The water floods to the screen.

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/danielname/Novo%20projeto%20aquario%202013%202014/Imagem3_zps961efed5.png (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/danielname/media/Novo%20projeto%20aquario%202013%202014/Imagem3_zps961efed5.png.html)

[SantaMonica]

Yes it's too big for "not feeding a lot".

Scrubbers are sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons or liters you have. So...

An example VERTICAL upflow or waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real watts (not equivalent) of fluorescent light for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If 6 watts are on each side, it is a 2-sided screen, but the total is still 12 watts for 18 hours a day. This screen size and wattage should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

High-wattage technique: Double the wattage, and cut the hours in half (to 9 per day). This will get brown screens to grow green much faster. Thus the example above would be 12 watts on each side, for a total of 24 watts, but for only 9 hours per day. If growth starts to turn YELLOW, then increase the flow, or add iron, or reduce the number of hours. And since the bulbs are operating for 9 hours instead of 18, they will last 6 months instead of 3 months.

HORIZONTAL screens: Multiply the screen size by 4, and the wattage by 1 1/2. Flow is 24 hours, and is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

FLOATING SURFACE SCRUBBERS WITH RIBBONS: Screen size is the size of the box (Lenth X Width), and is 2-sided because the ribbons grow in 3D.

LEDs: Use half the wattage as above. 660nm (red) is best. You can mix in a little 450nm (blue) if you want.

Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas, unless floating surface, which would use gravel and strings instead.

Clean algae:

Every 7 to 21 days, or
When it's black, or
When it fills up, or
When algae lets go, or
When nutrients start to rise

[Daniel Decourt]

For 2 cubes a day, I'll need a 1 sided screen (like the one in the pic) measuring 18 x 3? Is that correct?

[SantaMonica]

If you are going to use those lights, that's about as small of a screen as you'll get.

[Rumpy Pumpy]

I built one similar to that design a couple of year ago. Mine just had a sheet of glass siliconed across the back of the sump to create a separate chamber and a plastic canvas screen which was siliconed into a E shaped (in profile) plastic extrusion (the screen siliconed into on channel in the "E" and the other one being used to hang it on the glass making it easy to remove for cleaning.

The lights were mounted on a wooden built bracket which hung down inside the sump (meaning that the sump water level had to be quite low)

It worked very well but I broke it down in the end as I wanted to go sumpless - wish I hadn't now as I've since reinstated the sump. I might build a similar one some time, if I can be bothered.

[Rumpy Pumpy]

Incidentally, one possible problem with your design is that the chamber which receives the water from the overflow is very shallow. You might find that the water/air mixture from the overflow will create turbulence in the chamber which will cause splashing and salt creep particularly where the pipe enters the chamber.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'd say the main issues here are 1) the LEDs and 2) flow management.

1) the stunner strips:

- not available with 660nw Deep Red

- 24 LEDs, 6 watts consumed, these are very low power LEDs by anyone's standards - not appropriate for a scrubber at all IMO. You need at least 1W LEDs, preferably 3W.

2) Flow

I think rumpy addressed this one pretty well, just extend the lid more, I would extend the sides of the box more as well (height of the 3 sides). Also you will need a warp-free material for the lid.

[Daniel Decourt]

Hello!

1) Ok! I'll have to build my own. 18x3 screen is ok for my tank, correct? So I'd have to use 16 Philips Rebel ES 660nm LEDs? With or without lenses (I saw two options, 60 or 80 degrees).

2) Ok! I'll do that!

Thanks!

[Floyd R Turbo]

No, you don't want to focus the light - you want it to be as spread out as possible since they are point sources. In addition, some LEDs come with different options like 90, 100, 120 degree "lenses" but these are actually just the little dome over the actual chip that determines how the light is dispersed. You want 120.

screen size is about right for 2 + cubes/day single sided.

[SantaMonica]

Without lenses. 120 degree is best.

[MorganAtlanta]

Looks like my design from last year:

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?2530-My-current-design

[Daniel Decourt]

Hello!

What do you think about this fixture?

http://www.buildmyled.com/refugium-green-algae-spectrum/

Thanks!

[SantaMonica]

Probably good if the size matches, and it's 3 or so inches away.

[Daniel Decourt]

SantaMonica, thanks!

This fixture has many white leds, do you think it's good anyway?

Only red and blue would be better?

Thanks

[SantaMonica]

Mostly red is best, maybe with a little blue.

[Daniel Decourt]

http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-led-strip/

Thought about 12 660nm leds and 3 450nm leds. Lenses 90"

Screen size 18x3.

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/danielname/CapturadeTela2013-11-22agraves184916_zps0989fab0.png (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/danielname/media/CapturadeTela2013-11-22agraves184916_zps0989fab0.png.html)

Is that all right?

[SantaMonica]

15 LEDs is good, but 90 degrees is tight; 120 would be better.