Now Available: Screens you can buy

[SantaMonica]

Update Oct. 14 2009:

I finally have the plastic canvas, so I'm now making screens that are double-layered and roughed up. You can post your requirements here. This is the exact same screen setup that I tell people to make themselves, using a hole saw for the roughness. Cost will be 20 cents (0.20 USD) per square inch (6.25 square cm), plus shipping;

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasReadySpecs.jpg




Final screen version

The previous screen material that I had people testing was starting to rip where the tie-wraps went through, so it was not working. I did find a custom manufactured solution to solve this, which used a solid sheet on the inside of the screen, but it was just too much money. So it looks like the best screen material for me to offer is extreme-roughened, double-layered, plastic canvas.

As you know, if you already tried to rough up plastic canvas, all the work is in making it rough. You have to use a hole-saw (by hand), since sandpaper does not leave the "jagged" pieces that you want. You really need the jagged pieces which will grab hold of the algae, so the algae won't let go and fall into the water. This is of course because more algae growth (i.e, more filtering) means more weight. You DO want lots of algae (weight), but you DON'T want it to fall off of the screen. It should look like this:

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasCompare.jpg

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasRemovedPlastic1.jpg

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasRemovedPlastic2.jpg

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasReady.jpg


Since the prickly catcus-like parts don't show well on the camera, I did a towell-drop test on the canvas. Here is the roughed-up version:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasTowellDrop1.mpg

Versus the smooth version:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CanvasTowellDrop2.mpg


And both sides of both layers needs to be rough, so that algae will stay on the inside (between the layers) of the screen after you clean the outsides. And since the algae stays on the inside of the screen, you can clean the outside as hard as you want (scrape all the algae off) without worrying about "keeping some algae on the the screen".

So since this material has already been proven by hundreds of people who are using it right now (athough I never see it roughed up enough), it is just a matter of how much money is fair for a completed screen. If there is enough interest, then I'll start selling them.

It looks like I can make them for 20 cents per square inch. This is equal to:

0.20 USD per square inch
.032 USD per square cm
2.65 MXN per square inch
0.43 MXN per square cm
0.22 CAD per square inch
.035 CAD per square cm
0.14 EUR per square inch
.023 EUR per square cm
0.12 GBP per square inch
0.02 GBP per square cm
0.28 NZD per square inch
0.45 NZD per square cm
0.28 SGD per square inch
.045 SGD per square cm
1.49 ZAR per square inch
.024 ZAR per square cm
1.31 FRF per square inch
0.21 FRF per square cm
2.20 NLG per square inch
0.35 NLG per square cm
70.0 PHP per square inch
11.2 PHP per square cm


Shipping would be extra of course. Also, the screen area is just the finished screen size; you don't have to think about the multiple layers. So as an example:

A 10 X 10 inch screen = 100 square inches = $20 USD = $265 MXN = $22 CAD etc.
A 40 X 60 cm screen = 2400 square cm = $76.80 USD = $1032 MXN = $84 CAD etc.
A 3 X 6 inch nano screen = 18 square inches = $3.60 USD = $48 MSN = $3.96 CAD etc.

So post on here if you would get one at this price. There needs to be enough people otherwise it is not worth setting up to do it. If there is enough interest (at this price), then I will make them.

[worley]

Sounds like a good idea, my screen was never rough enough, so a few weeks ago instead of cleaning half of the screen I used a whole saw to rough up the areas I was cleaning, which also had the affect of cleaning that area too. A week later instead of getting slime algaes, which I've been getting a bit too much of in the last month, the macro green algaes started to grow, really fast too, and only where it was roughed up more. So the next cleaning roughed up the other half of the screen (I do it in horizontal strips as mine is one sided), but it's clearly obvious that even roughed up with sandpaper the plastic mesh grows more slime algae than others, but as soon as it's roughed up, as above, then more useful algaes grow pretty fast.
Would you offer one sided, double layered roughing for a little less, otherwise it seems a little expensive for single sided (e.g. mine is 22"x30"=660 sq in)?

[SantaMonica]

You actually would not want roughing on just one side. You need the algae roots to get down between the canvas layers and grab hold. This requires roughing on all sides. And a single-sided screen may need roughing on all sides even more than a double-sided screen, because there is no algae on the bottom side to connect with the algae on the top; thus the top will let go faster.

By the way, if you had a rough enough screen, you would not have to clean in strips; you could clean the whole thing down to the plastic, but there would be plently of green hair holding on inside the screen to do the filtering.

Green hair needs the roughest screen because green hair sticks out into the flowing water like a bush in the wind, and gets swept away. It's just now being seen how important a rough screen is. But that's what gives green hair a lot of surface area in contact with the water. Also, being transluscent, green hair does not block as much light.

Yours is a giant screen, and would take a whole day to make. Also, if the hole saw slips, you end up cutting through a big piece of canvas and would have to do the whole thing again. I wish I could do it for less, but it's too much work. I'm sure there are plenty of volunteers that would do it for you though.

[yesman]

Hi Santa
Would love a screen, first though, the acrylic box. Im setting up a new system of about 250UK gallons net of liverock but not incl. 40gal. refugium/sump and want to run a remote scrubber acrylic box like your personal one or the similar design you presented on here.

So I need to get one made and then fit the screen. Would a screen of 28"x9" be good or could I get away with less (once a week clean is the aim) Seem's like a big screen!, im thinking a 30" long box and 10" high and 4" wide to accomodate a 2"drain(plus bulkhead) for gravity return. Pipe coming in from pump around 1".

What do you think? Can I get away with a smaller screen? plus theres an inch or so to fit into the pipework!
What you consider the size to be, i'll take one ;) let me know.
Dan

[SantaMonica]

30 X 10 is good. Is about 1" per gallon. You want two separate screens though, so you could split it vertically and clean one each week. Make the box 5" wide, so you can look down into, and get a wiper down into, the box (without removing the screen). You need at least 150 total watts (75 per side) for medium filtering; I'd use 30" T5 bulbs, 3 on each side. A 2" drain should work, but 2.5" would be better. You'll need at least 1000gph going through the pipe.

A screen for this would be straight-forward. Just make sure the design lets you lift the screen out easily.

[yesman]

Thanks Santa,

Because the scrubber box is using gravity drainage return, it will be up high, so getting above and cleaning in situ would be cumbersome. I would be dissconnecting at the union and lifting the screen/feed pipe out (leaving box in situ)to take to the sink for cleaning down on one side for that week and then cleaning each side alternate weeks, is that right?

Correct me if im wrong, two screens are roughed up, glued/stuck together somehow to make a thick base for algae to grow. Then insert into pipe, cable tie in for permanence, then lift out each week for alternate side cleaning? So thats ONE screen essentially (two permanently fixed together)? Will this still be ok given your idea for splitting two verticle screens and cleaning one each week?

Thanks for the spec sizes, lighting and flow rate, will design to this spec.

Once im clear on the final spec I can go ahead and find someone to build the box and let you know re the screen.

[SantaMonica]

Correct except you only cable-tie the screen, not glue.

[Francois]

Hi Santa

Would love a screen to. I made an acrylic box just like yours. My screen has been running for 4 months now and its just slime algea. Have been noticing white stuff growing on it, don't know what it is I'll post pics later.

Regards

[SantaMonica]

Yes post some pics. Are you cleaning every week?

[jdl]

i would get a screen. My current screen is double layered, would i need to get 2 screens or only 1 since it is really roughed up?
I tried to rough mine up, it looks rough, but not nearly as much as your picture.

[SantaMonica]

"One" of my screens = two layers.

[yesman]

Hi Santa

Would you be able to make me a 30x10in screen as we discussed in this thread?
If you can, great, just PM me payment details.

One question, will there be an extra inch along the top to fit into the pipe?

Thanks, Dan.

[SantaMonica]

I just ordered a batch of canvas, will post here when I have it.

30 X 10 = 300 roughed up inches = $60 USD. This would be two-layered. Would this be 30 wide, or 10 wide? The non-rough part would be an extra inch I would put at the top.

Also, you could cut the screen vertical when you get it, so that you could clean just 1/2 half at a time.

[SantaMonica]

Worley I'll make you that screen if you post up a scrubber calculator :)

[yesman]

It would be 30 wide ( to be used in an acrylic box) and lit either side with one side scraped each week.

[yesman]

Great i'll take the 10x30 (thats 30 wide x 10 high). Is that going to be one piece concidering the long width?
Let me know how to make payment.
Thanks Dan.

[SantaMonica]

Just one screen. It will be double sided.

[yesman]

Yes great, I meant double sided but that you could get the lengh of screen 30" long :) without having to peice two sections together :D

Excellent, just let me know how to pay you Santa.

Thanks, Dan.

[SantaMonica]

Well the sheets are max 22", so it will need to be pieced together. But one side will have seams in a different place than the other side, so their will not be one particular place where it "folds". Also, I'll use zip ties will be be as strong as epoxy.

Let me know if this is ok.

[yesman]

Sounds fine, as long as it falls flat for even water flow across the screen and I guess it wont affect cleaning much either?

Thanks, Dan.

[SantaMonica]

Does not affect flow at all. Flow is controlled by the slot.

Let me check on the postage for a 30" package.

[ShanGo]

SM can you make the pipes with the slots to order as well so you get the right flow

[SantaMonica]

Maybe later, but for now just the screens.

[ShanGo]

Maybe later, but for now just the screens.
i am after 2 if you can do with screens

[SantaMonica]

Yesman: It will be $10 postage and packing.

Shan: I'll post here if I start doing pipes too. Need to get a system for making the screens first, though (lots of labor).

[ShanGo]

ok can you send me two screens 11.5in high 12in wide plz and the cost

[Sitka Blue Moon]

Hi,

New User.

I would like to get screens suitable for a 270g and a 100g tank. The 270g tank is a fowlr tanks with a pair of large puffers, an eel and a lion - uber messy for sure. The second is a reef tank with a nice mix, but growing some algae that I would prefer to export. Both have suitably large sumps/refugiums. Wide is good. Open to recommendations. I'm acquiring diy materials to make scrubber - waiting for dremel then I'll pick up pvc and set up.

[SantaMonica]

ShanGo: You mean one two-layer screen (for one scrubber)? Or two two-layer screens (for two scrubbers)? Are you in the U.S.?

Sitka: Need to know or see pics of your sump. Size, etc. If you already have these tanks/sumpsl start a thread with pics about them.

[ShanGo]

2x Two-layer screens plz i live in the UK

[SantaMonica]

Ok so 2 screens, each one two layers, and each one 12 inches wide by 11.5 inches tall, with an extra 0.5 smooth part at the top to go into the top.

12 X 11.5 = 18 square inches = $18 USD. So two of these is $36. Will check on shipping to UK.

[ShanGo]

Ok so 2 screens, each one two layers, and each one 12 inches wide by 11.5 inches tall, with an extra 0.5 smooth part at the top to go into the top.

12 X 11.5 = 18 square inches = $18 USD. So two of these is $36. Will check on shipping to UK.
each one 12 inches wide by 11 inches tall, with an extra 0.5 smooth part at the top to go into the top
Ok let me know ASAP

[SantaMonica]

Working on Yesman's screen... is a ton of work.

[SantaMonica]

One more evening and Yesman's will be done, then I'll start on Shango's.

[kcress]

That's crazy! We have to figure out a better way...

BTW are you doing both sides of all pieces in multilayer screens?

[SantaMonica]

I can only do 30 or 45 minutes at a time. Yes I'm doing all sides of both sheets. My better way will be to just get a local person to come over and do them, once I've figured out all the steps.

[yesman]

To be fair, it is a big screen!

The tank will be 300 gallons and the screen will provide sole inorganic support while at the same as Santa says, using all the protein in the system as food for... something.

[SantaMonica]

Finally done with roughing Yesman's... just need to zip tie and mail it.

It's a tricky process... you have to push hard on the hole saw, in order to cut larger pieces, but too hard and you'll cut all the way through it.

[SantaMonica]

Mailing Yesman's out tomorrow. Starting now on Shango's.

Still making them myself.

[ChrisD]

SM - any thoughts on whether a thin sheet of coarse filter pad would be a good substrate for the algae to grab on to? You could then overlay with unroughed plastic canvas each side and sew the three layers together with fishing line. the mesh would act as a great guide for running a card or blade over to 'mow' the hair algae without cutting or even pulling on the roots.

Normally we would scorn at the thought of filter pads in our tanks as they become nitrate factories but in this case it would simply be concentrating the nitrate exactly where we want it - at the algae screen.

Chris

[SantaMonica]

Never tried filter material. And you never want to use un-roughed screen.

The idea of two layers of screen (by themselves) is to have a growing-area in the middle. If you fill that space with material, you may lose that growth. Also, it would certainly block the light from going through the screen when empty. This light is helpful in getting new growth since it lights up the bottom side of both sides.

[SantaMonica]

ShanGo's screens are mailing out today.

[ShanGo]

Nice one cant wait

[jdl]

Hello,

am looking to get an 11x13 screen shipped to USA
if 11x13 is an odd size, 11x12 will work fine

let me know if you can make one and price to ship

thanks!

Jim

[SantaMonica]

Yes I have some made now, and ready to be cut to size. For 11 X 13, which is width?

Packing and shipping is $10.

11 X 13 = 143 square inches = $29

Total: $39

[jdl]

Yes I have some made now, and ready to be cut to size. For 11 X 13, which is width?

Packing and shipping is $10.

11 X 13 = 143 square inches = $29

Total: $39


11 is the width
paypal? you can pm me the info and i'll send it out.


thanks!

[SantaMonica]

Ok.

Since 13 in the height, the top 1/2 inch will be smooth.

[SantaMonica]

JDL's screen is being mailed out Monday.

[fajars2003]

Hello,

am looking to get an 25 x 35 cm screen shipped to Indonesia
single layer screen

let me know if you can make one and price to ship

thanks!

Fajr

[SantaMonica]

25cm X 35cm = 10 X 14 inches = 140 square inches = $28 USD. Will do $35 USD for packing and shipping, so total would be $63.

[yesman]

Thanks Santa, received the screen. Talking to company re acrylic box design for set up over the new year on new system. Will post back with details once started.

Dan.

[SantaMonica]

Any feedback on the screens?

[SantaMonica]

Remember to clean these double-layer screens all the way down to the plastic, since they have algae living between the layers.

[SantaMonica]

Here is Oatfish's screen: 22 X 22. Tallest one I've made yet. Putting those separate sheets of canvas together takes an amazing amount of work, since the sheets are all slightly warped from being roughed up. Total time for this was about 4 hours.

[notsomot]

would someone be willing to make me one and send it to australia?

I cant get anything close to it here, I will pay via paypal

[SantaMonica]

How big? Packing and shipping is about $35 if not to big.

[KansasNative]

Does everyone know you can by these nylon screens at Wal-Mart for next to nothing?
Also at any store that does hand crafts, ie. cross stich. :D

Actually algae will grow on anything with a textured substrate, some light, and nutirients (waste water).
My old aquarium club was doing this in 1979.

Happy scrubbing - Craig

[SantaMonica]

The screen is cheap; I don't even charge for them. The roughing, however, is hard. Here is ShanGo's screen after just 4 days; this would take a smooth screen several week to get to...

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/FourDaysRoughScreen.jpg

[yesman]

Hi Santa

Update: Having an acrylic scrubber box built this week to house screen. Will also pass on builders details for builders directory, this will be for the UK, once I see the finished product.

Dan.

[yesman]

How wide does the slot in the holding pipe have to be to fit the double roughed up screen made by santa and which dremmel tool application would be the best one to use?
Thanks, Dan.

[SantaMonica]

Start with 3/16 inch. It will seem like a tight fit but water also flows between the screens. I just use a cut-off wheel in the dremmel, and cut a thin line on both sides of the slot, then just break out the middle. Could also use a table saw.

[ShanGo]

Start with 3/16 inch. It will seem like a tight fit but water also flows between the screens. I just use a cut-off wheel in the dremmel, and cut a thin line on both sides of the slot, then just break out the middle. Could also use a table saw.
are you sure m8 as you said 3/8 on a next post

[SantaMonica]

Yea, I think a tighter fit might be a good place to start, since I don't know what flow he has.