2nd design scrubber

[cracker]

Hello, I'm building a scrubber and this is the 2nd design. Lot's of variables to work out. Lets see if I can post a pic .http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/005-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/005-1.jpg.html) I have expressions leds on order, When I get them I will have more questions Thanks!

[cracker]

As You can see , I need better drainage. the drain hose is coiled up in a basin about 10" under water this creates a lot of back pressure etc. I intend to mount this unit on a shelf a good 3 ' above the sump. this will lesson the input flow and more drop will improve the drain. Talk about getting ahead of one's self, I don't even know what kind of coverage I will get with the lights ordered! I can see another container build in the future. Thanks again!

[SantaMonica]

Welcome.

Nice straight forward build.

[cracker]

Thanks Santa Monica, this container is 12 long and 15 high. I see now it needs to be 15 long and 12 high. If I had only laid it on i'ts side! I appreciate your earlier insight on screen size .I want a container to allow me to change manifold/screen size depending on my needs. Anyway I'm waiting for the lights .They will determine the "length" of the next container.

[Crusinjimbo]

I believe you will like the Expression LED lights. I have been using them (3 on a 14x6 screen) for well over a year and they are very sturdy and well made. Following and good luck.

[cracker]

Thanks Jimbo, I admit to being a little impatient waiting for delivery, The Holidays and all. I worked for UPS for many years and I don't care if those guys get a day off! they deserve it for sure. The lights will determine not necessarily size but dimension of the screen Is long across the top and short from top down or vis versa the best?" seems if I use a pump long is ok.If I use the drain manifold then short along the top will be better,,,maybe. I don't know! Anyway I'm waiting on the lights ! I have no idea what I'm going to do at this point. LOL!

[cracker]

OK, I placed the scrubber on a shelf over the ref.It drains straight down into it. the pump is in the return section. I was going nuts on where best to place the thing.There it was and it will work fine and not conflict with the fug,just more flow thru it. Ant way hear is a pic. I hope to mount the light strips inside the container. I can install splash panels if necessary. I don't know if heat will be an issue. The cfl is temp until the LEDs arrive. Thanks
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/002-2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/002-2.jpg.html)

[SantaMonica]

You won't need splash panels, and heat will not be an issue.

However is should have a light on the other side, if it doesn't.

One issue might be the gurgling sound of the drain.

[cracker]

Thanks Santa Monica, Interesting that You foresaw the drain gurgle issue. The drain ended a few inches below the water level of the fuge and did gurgle. I adjusted it so the water drains right at the water level, it stopped the noise but added an inch maybe to the water level in the container which is no problem also no more gurgle. The lights don't arrive until Friday! Thanks again for You insight.

[cracker]

I received the expressions leds today, They are very bright indeed. I installed them" outside" the scrubber,They are 2.5 inches away from the screen the light passes thru the acrylic. There has to be plenty of light on the screen! I will run them 16/8 opposite of the dt lighting. The led fixtures and cables appear to be well made very sturdy, The seal looks pretty good the conectors are sturdy and fit tightly. We shall see what happens! Thanks, Brian

[cracker]

One week now, There is a light brown film covering the screen. I assume this is Diatom. Not enough for a pic Yet.

[cracker]

Week 2, Just more of the brown film. I lightly scrubbed it off and will increase "Lights on" duration.

[SantaMonica]

Yes get the slime off. Then more light.

[cracker]

Just how much dark time do I need?

[SantaMonica]

18 hours of light, unless I see a pic of dark stuff.

[cracker]

Thanks for the specifics!

[cracker]

week 3 now, went to 18/6 schedule. Barely got some almost green looking stuff! I lightly scrubbed in saltwater and put it back. Hopefully I'll have a something worth a pic next week! thanks!

[cracker]

Hello ,4 weeks now , I had to remove the screen from the manifold due to a little green stuff clogging the slot, however the rest of the screen is still brown just more of it. I suspect I don't have enough flow over the screen so I'm considering a manifold with a shorter slot. This will put more water over a smaller screen. The screen now is really big according to the new sizing guidelines at 10 by 11.So if I lose some area it won't hurt a thing. You can see where the water flow is heavier . Heres a pic
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/003-5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/003-5.jpg.html)
Thanks for any op's.Brian

[SantaMonica]

It's not bad, so if you want to let it fill in, it might be easier.

[cracker]

Cool, So It's cooking! Thanks

[cracker]

week5. looks about the same. Thanks

[SantaMonica]

Should certainly have lots of green by now.

[cracker]

Thanks for the reply! There isn't much change. in fact there is less this week than last. Not sure what steps are needed to refine the design. I run 18 on 6 off. Surely there is plenty of light. There must be plenty of excess nutrients in the tank. I do have a steady sheet of water.However I can increase flow over the screen. I'm sure the screen is roughed up . I will get a pic up of the lights on and off. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for helping me with this experiment, Brian

[cracker]

week 6, looks the same I do have some bud looking spots still brown though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/003-5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/003-5.jpg.html)
I think I will wait one more week and concentrate the lights on 1/2 of the screen and see what happens. Thanks

[SantaMonica]

Looks like it is just way oversized for the amount of feeding/nutrients

[cracker]

Thanks Again for Your advice. The screen is way big according to the new sizing guide. I will cut the screen down. This way I can use a shorter slot in the manifold which will create more flow over the screen and concentrate the lighting.

[cracker]

Good evening,I cut the screen down from 9.5 to 7 inches. I was able to concentrate the lighting greatly. I will give it a couple of weeks and see what happens.Thanks

[SantaMonica]

The stronger flow will help a lot.

[cracker]

Hello, I guess week 7 now? So I cut the screen down to 7 inches as stated last week. Was really able to concentrate the lights and improved the manifold for better flow .More brown stuff but more thicker spots. Hard to explain. I lightly scrapped the screen. I'm willing to make the screen smaller and build a container that is not as wide. the current container is 5.5 inches wide The acrylic I used wasn't crystal clear. Here is a pic. Thanks!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/001_1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/001_1.jpg.html)

[SantaMonica]

Did you really rough the screen? Those spots usually happen if the screen is too smooth.

[cracker]

Thanks, I will address that.

[cracker]

Hello, Been a few weeks since I checked in. Had spraying issues redid another manifold and installed a spray guard.Still have the brown stuff. I do have some green but its right at the top inside the manifold. I'm considering building another box. The acrylic I used was not exactly clear. I could be restricting the light.This pic after a serious scrubbing.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/001_3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/001_3.jpg.html) thanks

[SantaMonica]

Do a pic before cleaning next time.

[cracker]

Thanks! Will do. Also I have had issues keeping the 18/ 6 lighting schedule. My fault. This is an experiment to me. I'm in no hurry to get results. I am enjoying the challenge and learning the best way.

[cracker]

Good Evening. I did a flowrate test today. The screen is 7 inches along the top. I came up with 28.2 gph, Not enough. I removed the screen and got 36 gph along the top,still not enough. I propose to widen the slot before I look into a bigger pump. I know I should have tested flow but thought for sure the pump would be plenty. Here is a pic Please note the green right at the top of the screen this is inside the manifold. Thanks!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/007.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/007.jpg.html)

[SantaMonica]

Yea 7 x 35 = 245 gph at least.

[Bacon]

Good Evening. I did a flowrate test today. The screen is 7 inches along the top. I came up with 28.2 gph, Not enough. I removed the screen and got 36 gph along the top,still not enough. I propose to widen the slot before I look into a bigger pump.

Is that 28 GPH per inch, or total? Widening the slot should not be needed unless it's less than 1/8", or not even.

[SantaMonica]

35 gph per inch.

[Bacon]

I was asking cracker if his measurement was total GPH or per inch. Hence the reason I quoted his post

[cracker]

The figures posted are per inch. I understand the need to clarify.When I ran the test without the screen, The water blasted out along the entire slot. I "hope" the pump is restricted by too small a slot. we shall see. Once again this is an experiment and learning how stuff works. Thanks. Brian

[Bacon]

28 vs 35 GPH/in should not make that much of a difference. How much are you feeding? Are you using the LEDs fixtures?

[cracker]

Hello,I ordered a larger pump,Should have it Tuesday the 28th. According to the big site's head loss calculator, I will have around 42 gph per inch for a 10 inch(across the top) screen. The pump is bigger than necessary but I may have a use for it on another future project. I have more green along the top of the screen. This tells me that is where the most flow is. Now. the screen is all filled in with brown stuff. Again this current screen is 7 inches across the top and 10 inches down. The larger pump will allow me to make the screen bigger if I want. For now I will try to green up this screen, then maybe try a little larger one. Today I scraped off a little excess nutrient from my tank! Here is a pic Thanks Again.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/001_4.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/001_4.jpg.html)

[cracker]

I got the bigger pump, a mag 7. I got 450 gph off the drain. The big site's headloss calculator said 420gph. Pretty close in my opinion. This is a marked improvement on the flow. I will wait a couple weeks and see what grows.
Bacon. I have a 200 gl tank with 3 small fish. I feed very little. I'm using 4 led fixtures from Expressions.

[Crusinjimbo]

My current ATS setup, my fourth version, is a single-sided waterfall on a 20 degree angle with a 5" x 11" (w x l) screen using an MJ900 pump (12" head) and three Expression LEDs. This new setup took about 6 weeks to start cranking out green harvests of 125g every 10 days. My PO4 is 0 and NO3 is 3ppm. I'm certainly no expert but I never had much success blasting a screen with 35G per inch of screen width. It appears most of the cascading water just blows down the face of the screen. I have had better algae production running my screen at an angle using a small pump and spray holes vs. slotted. This is just what has worked reasonably well, so far, for me.

[cracker]

CJ, Thanks for the insight, I know what You mean by "blasting water" rushing down the screen. I want to try a wider slot for a thicker,even water column . Every morning I have water squirting away from the screen. I have to giggle it around to get the water to flow down the screen. I will pull it on Friday and see what I have. Thanks again and Best Regards ! Brian

[cracker]

Hello, Checking in. I have the same brown stuff with "A little more green" This is a slow process for sure. Not sure what I will try next. Lots of options !

[SantaMonica]

Well the brownish slime looks like a lack of light in a waterfall. If green is starting, just let it continue. You could also try to move the LEDs closer together so that the middle is brighter, since there is currently no sign of burning.

[cracker]

Thanks, The lighting is another aspect I haven't looked at. I also scrubbed all the brown off. The screen felt very rough to me. I will concentrate the lights ans see what happens. I'm close to building a more narrow container the lights are 2.5 inches away from the screen and must pass thru less than clear acrylic. Thanks! Brian

[cracker]

Ok so I placed the light strips side by side right down the center of the screen. They are as concentrated as possible.

[cracker]

Good Evening, It's been a while since checking in. After moving the light strips side by side, I have a little more green right down the middle but mostly the brown slim stuff. I think it's lighting. I have 250 m/h lights over the display and believe they are out doing the leds on the scrubber. It's time to get rid of the m/h lights and move on . In fact I just ordered leds for the display and waiting on delivery. I'm getting old I guess. I remember under gravel filters then wetdry's were the shit, skimmers were brand new and led lighting was new "untested" technology! LOL

[SantaMonica]

Yea it does sound like weak LEDs. However if they are strong enough, they will grow no matter what the display lighting is.

[cracker]

So I removed the M/h lights and swapped them for led's.I thought I had too much light. Now,according to this apogee light meter I borrowed , I have double the light! I love/hate this hobby LOL!

[cracker]

Hello Gents, checking after some time. I still get just the brown slime. So 1st, I'm sure I have enough nutrients in the display. 2nd, I have good flow over the screen . It think it must be the lighting.Do I remove the expressions led strips and find a stronger light or add more of the same strips? I'm at a loss . Thanks for any op's

[Bacon]

Pics of current setup?

[Crusinjimbo]

Cracker, how many of the expression LEDs are you using currently. I run three on a one sided waterfall and they grow lots of algae. Mine are oriented lengthwise on my 11" long screen. What are your NO3 and PO4 levels?

[cracker]

My screen is 7" across the top and 12 down. I have 2 of the expressions running vertically on each side. they are mounted outside the box about 2.5 inches from the screen. I don't have any current trate or phos readings . I will get a pic and do some testing this weekend. Thanks!

[Crusinjimbo]

Cracker, I use three on a one sided 5 x 12 (w x l) screen and yesterday's harvest was 240g of wet algae on a 10 day growth cycle. Edge to edge 1/4" thick green mat. My lights are 2" from my angled screen. I'm thinking your lights are adequate to generate much more action than you are getting so there could be another limiting factor.

[cracker]

Thanks crusin, According to my Kits and "tester": My po4 is <.08, No3 0. The amount of algae in the display tells me these nutrients are all tied up. I was running M/H lighting and thought they were out competing the lights on the scrubber. I recently went to Led lighting. The H A in the display "appears" to be bleaching/turning white. I may see changes in the near future. Meanwhile I will go back to basics and measure flow etc. I'm looking forward to seeing results like Yours. Also I will look for pics of Your scrubber Thanks Again!
here is a pic not current but the same. all I did was move the lights right next to each other
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/002-3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/002-3.jpg.html)

[cracker]

Good evening, Ok , I have been experimenting with my scrubber since around February. All I get is this brown mulm(best description). I'm sure I have the excess nutrient in the system. I have lot's of flow over the screen (maybe too much). I assume I have proper lighting. To break this down and figure out my issues,It's either flow or lighting.So here is what I'm doing I took all 4 led strips and placed them on one side of the screen then I mounted A reflector with the ecosmart CPF suggested in the how to thread on the other. I want to see if the extra lighting will kick this turkey in! I will wait a couple of weeks and see what happens. If this doesn't work, I will cut back on the flow rate. If I make too many changes at once I won't know what the problem was. I have waiting for months a while longer isn't going to matter.Thanks for hanging in there with me!

[SantaMonica]

You will know pretty quick if the stronger light helps.

[cracker]

Gentle men, Modesty forbids me to boast but I got some GREEN! Ya Baby!

[SantaMonica]

!!!

[cracker]

Ok so about 6 days ago (as usual) I used a plastic scrapper to clean the brown stuff off the screen. So 3 days ago while the screen was still clean I saw definite yet light green over the entire screen. Today, The entire surface is covering with the brown stuff. Do I clean it again or let it go?

[Bacon]

Do not scrape unless you have growth that is thick enough to block light to the base, and won't come off any other way. I haven't seen a pic of your screen yet that tells me you need to scrape it. Rub with fingertips, maybe take a soft-bristle toothbrush and swipe it across the screen once lightly and then rinse, but nothing else beyond this. IMO you are cleaning too much and this might be a factor.

I would clean every 10 days minimum, and possibly let it grow 14 days of more. But before you clean, post a pic. This tells us a lot.

[SantaMonica]

Sounds like just not enough nutrients in the water.

[cracker]

OK here is a pic of the scrubber
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/HPIM8004.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/HPIM8004.jpg.html)
pic of rock in display
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/HPIM8008.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/HPIM8008.jpg.html)
pic of screen
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/HPIM8005.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/HPIM8005.jpg.html)
Lets see if this works, Again thanks for the help

[cracker]

Ok that worked, remember I scrapped it just a few days ago.

[Bacon]

I think I would just let it grow, your goal is to get some green growth to replace the brown, so at the most you would just loosen up the brown with your fingers or palm and rinse it. Maybe try rinsing with a cup of tank water instead of tap water. But don't scrape or scrub.

Can you harvest all the bubble algae out of the tank?

What about your water tests, alk, cal, mag, salinity, nitrate, phosphate, potassium?

How long do you run tank lights for every day?

How long do you run scrubber lights for every day?

[cracker]

YIKES! I'll work on all that! LOL

[cracker]

I just cleaned this out of one of my overflows
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/HPIM8018.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/HPIM8018.jpg.html)
I haven't cleaned them out in 5 years! This is why I think I have plenty of nutrients in the water. It could well be that it's all tied up in the algae. Maybe now that I have been removing a "lot" this green stuff the scrubber will have a chance to compete? Once again this is an experiment to me. I want to figure it out!

[SantaMonica]

Well those bubbles do have nutrients, but not much. They survive on very little.

[cracker]

Thanks Santa Monica, Surely there is enough nutrients in the water to kick off this scrubber? Is it possible that if I remove enough algae etc the scrubber will get enough nutrients? Still running the extra light still the same lights on time. If nothing happens Next round I will go back to just the leds and change the lights on period to see how that works. I'll check in, in a few weeks!

[SantaMonica]

If you are feeding, then there will be nutrients.

[cracker]

Evening Gent's I removed the extra CFL and went back to the Led strips two on each side. I let this thing go for quite a while. This time I cleaned the slot which had green stuff clogging it. I scraped the usual brown stuff off the screen which I got a good amount of . Anyway, I did export some nutrients from the tank. I'm wiling continue to wait until the hinges of Hades freeze over to get this scrubber to work properly!

[SantaMonica]

I do think LEDs are the way.

[cracker]

Evening , So I have som elong strand looking stuff but not the nice green I was expecting. I'm not scraping the screen weekly just letting it go to see what happens. I do scrub clean the very top part of the screen that fits inside the manifold. Now the clear hose I use to feed the scrubber has plenty of green stuff in! LOL.

[SantaMonica]

Probably just needs to develop/attach.

[cracker]

I agree Santa Monica, Slowly but surely it's going! What would You suggest as the best lights on/off time? I turn the lights off around 10:30 11 am then on around 4pm. Do I want longer lights on ? I am enjoying this experiment. Thanks!

[SantaMonica]

A pic of full growth will help.

[cracker]

Here is a pic, Again I thank You for Your time and op's! Now if I scrape all this off there is some actual green film under it all.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/HPIM8094.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/upsguy/media/HPIM8094.jpg.html)

[SantaMonica]

Ok just brush off all the slime, and go to 20 hours if you can. I think more light is needed.

[cracker]

Thanks, I lightly scraped . will increase the lights on time.

[cracker]

Evening Gents, I see a little HH along the very top of the screen. Most notable is the brown stuff is not coming back as fast as in the past. I "think" the lights on the display is out competing the scrubber. I will cut back on the lights on time on the display and see what happens.

[SantaMonica]

I think it's doing fine. It's just big and the nutrients are spread out over a large area and therefore can't get thick. You could make it smaller if you want.

[cracker]

Ok, Thanks, That will be my next step. Looking at the display, there are surely enough nutrients to go around! Like I stated in the past, this is an experiment and I'm open to any changes.

[SantaMonica]

Is this still how it looks?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/upsguy/HPIM8008.jpg

[cracker]

Best Wishes for 2016! No Sir the rock surely doesn't look that that pic any more. The bubble is just about gone and the HA is receding as well . Now I have this off white looking stuff now but that is clearing up as well. I have been hammering the water changes . Give me a while and I will post a recent pic of the same rock.

[cracker]

Evening Gents, Sorry It's been a while since checking in. It'[s been about a year now,still the same brown slime on the screen. Now the rock pictured above no longer has any of the bubble or HA seen . It's gone! I've got this off white @@$%# stuff now and it's pissing me off! LOL The tank is changing, Thanks Again!

[SantaMonica]

A pic of the screen would help. Sounds like a weak light.

[cracker]

I will get You a screen pic very soon. I just scrapped it.

[cracker]

Folks, I regret to say I pulled the scrubber from my tank. After a year experiment. I got nothing. Surely it was a flaw in design ,flow. or lighting. My overflows have grown more algae in a year than the scrubber . I'm not giving up on algae scrubbers, just have other things going on and it wasn't practical for me to keep this scrubber up and going. I will return to a scrubber in the future. I want to thank everyone for the advice.
Best Regards, Brian Jackson

[SantaMonica]

Yikes, will be looking forward to your return.