New Drop1.2x scrubbers installed: progress report

[amwassil]

I ordered two Drop1.2x scrubbers which arrived yesterday. I installed both in my 80 gallon freshwater BB fish tank (about 75 gallons of water). They were both on yesterday for about 5 hours; starting today they are going 12on/12off and I will check progress on day #7 (19 June). Starting params: pH 6.8-7.0; ammonia: 0.00; nitrite: 0.00; nitrate: ~60+; phosphate: ~10+.

Primary filtration is a Marineland C360, which has been cycling for a couple of years. Secondary filtration are two TLF reactors, one with Seachem Matrix and the other with crushed coral. I had a problem keeping the pH up until I added the crushed coral. I may replace the Matrix with more crushed coral, since I don't think it's doing very much and I'd like to get the pH above 7.0 and get more carbonate into the water. I also recently added a moving bed filter with Hel-x media, but it has not started to cycle yet. Once it starts cycling I intend to retire the Marineland C360.

Side view showing the two Drops hanging from the end:
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Top view showing the two Drops side by side:
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Note that there is a lot of surface movement; the streaks and blobs in the both photos are actually streams of air bubbles on the surface. In the first photo the water seems to appear cloudy, but it's not. It's full of very tiny air bubbles swirling around at that end of the tank. The moving bed filter super aerates the water so its always full of air bubbles. In the second photo the water looks green, but it's not. I have a dark green background on the glass and lots of plastic plants at that end which are out of focus due to the surface movement and small bubbles mixing in the water column.

Unfortunately, when I took the photos, all the fish decided to hide at the other end of the tank, although you can see one of the big apple snails in both photos. I have Julii, Copper and Pepper corys, Buenos Aires tetras, Chinese Golden and Rainbow barbs, Platys, a couple of male Dwarf Gouramis, and an ancistrus. Everyone is active and healthy.

Michael

[SantaMonica]

Welcome from Canada.

Will be nice to follow. I see you opted for bubbles, instead of bubble-free placement above the waterline.

How are you hanging them?

[amwassil]

They're both hanging from an S-hook. In the second photo you can see these.

[amwassil]

So, here I am 1 week in! I pulled both scrubbers and examined them this morning and there is zero visible growth. I've increased the lights/on time to 15 hours as of today. I left the screens in, since the surfaces are still white. I also got around to reading the instructions and discovered that I should have left the air pump on 24 hours daily, which I did not do. I had it plugged into the same circuit that turned the scrubbers on/off at 12 hours. I've now plugged the air pump into a separate circuit that is always on. So, I'll check in again next weekend with another update.

[SantaMonica]

Yes that will probably make a big difference.

[amwassil]

14 days in and I have bright green growth in both drops:

6057 6058 6059

Note that the darker area near one end is a shadow from the lighting of the photo, not a difference in algae growth or colour. I have removed the black screens, but otherwise will make no other changes unless advised to do so. The scrubbers lights are 15on/9off and air 24on.

[amwassil]

21 days and I have bright green growth in both drops. It's even growing on the inside of the bare plastic lids! There is significantly more growth than last week, but I didn't have time to take photos this morning. I'll try to take photos tomorrow morning and add them to this post. By next weekend there should be enough growth to start looking impressive. Not enough to harvest yet ;-) but growing in the right direction!

[Devaji108]

nice! do you plan on taking the other filters out and just using the drops?
are the leds underwater?
keep us posted...

[amwassil]

No, I don't plan to remove the other filters. As I noted in the original post, as soon as the moving bed filter cycles, I'm going to retire the C360. Not sure yet about the two TLF reactors. My primary goal is to reduce nitrates and phosphates with the drops. If they do that I'll be happy.

[yanton]

How quiet is the DROP when mounted just above the waterline?

[amwassil]

Devaji108

Yes, the drops/LEDs are totally submerged.

[amwassil]

yanton

I don't know. Mine are about an inch under water and the bubbling makes a lot of noise! I wonder, though, if raising them up to or slightly above the waterline affects flowthrough. If anyone has mounted drops at or above the waterline, please report about that. Thanks.

[amwassil]

28 days and looking good:

6090 6091

I might even have to 'harvest' some of it in a week or two.

[SantaMonica]

Yes a good toothbrushing will allow thicker growth

[amwassil]

SantaMonica

Are you saying I should scrub them NOW with a toothbrush? Or in a week or two? Thanks.

[SantaMonica]

Yes now. The thin slime sometimes prevents thicker growth from attaching.

[amwassil]

Thanks, scrubbed in tap water in the bath tub:

6093 6094

[amwassil]

I thought I'd post a photo of some of my fish.

6096

[amwassil]

Day 35 (6 days after a toothbrushing):

6126 6127

Note: not very visible in the photos, but there is algae growing again on the bare plastic of the door interiors.

[SantaMonica]

Ok let's see how thick it will get. My last one in FW took a month or so to get really thick.

[amwassil]

Day 42:

6166 6167

I did nothing other than take them out for the photos. No brushing today. Just letting them grow however they will. My platys are starting to sniff around the boxes, so maybe they smell the algae.

[amwassil]

Day 49:

6181 6182

Just took them out for the photos. I did nothing else to them. Well, I found a small snail in one so I took him out of the box!

For the past week I've noticed algae in the sponge prefilter and its cover. I presume that is algae breaking off and flowing out of the boxes into the water tank. Is that usual/normal? Thanks.

[amwassil]

I was going to describe a procedure I came up with to determine accurate ppm values with API test kits when you have readings that are 'off the card'. But I'll hold off on it until I've done some more testing.

[isenhart]

I have little pieces of algae break off and end up in my tank all the time from my scrubbers. They aren't a drop filters, but I bet the algae is the same.

[SantaMonica]

The algae in the filter could be from that. Time for a good toothbrush cleaning.

[amwassil]

Day 56:

6199 6200


SM: Time for a good toothbrush cleaning.

Just saw this. I did NOT clean last week and do not intend to clean today either. The amount of algae on my prefilter sponge/sock is manageable so I can live with it for another week. I have to clean it every other day. I want to see how much more algae grows; it does not look like much more than what was in there last week. I found another small snail!

[SantaMonica]

Yes the freshwater growth will only get so thick. After a while it may get more solid and thick, but not bushy.

If one snail is visible, there may be other smaller ones too.

[amwassil]

Day 62. I've got a major plumbing project planned for tomorrow, so I checked/cleaned my scrubbers today instead.

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SM: If one snail is visible, there may be other smaller ones too.

You'll notice that the door of the scrubber in the left photo is practically clear of algae and overall growth in this scrubber is noticeably less than in the other scrubber. Snails in the box appear to be eating the algae! I found two fairly large ones and three smaller, plus some clear blobs that I'd guess are eggs or clusters of eggs. I dumped all the snails I found into the aquarium. I think the gold barbs will enjoy eating them. I don't know how only one scrubber got colonized and not the other as well. Fluke, I guess. I'm pretty sure these little black snails originated from some water plants I bought a few months ago. At that time I found one black snail on a plant leaf. I put him in my apple snail tank, but found him dead later. So I'd guess there are more still living in the main fish tank and they just haven't yet discovered the second scrubber. Interesting, anyway.

I cleaned both scrubbers thoroughly with my toothbrush. I want to see how much growth there is after a week.

[amwassil]

Day 70:

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This is 8 day's growth. Can I presume this is typical? If so, then the two scrubbers are working fine. I scrubbed both with a toothbrush. I did not find any snails and the scrubber they had colonized has about the same thick growth as the other now.

[SantaMonica]

It's still a little thin but will develop a base over the next months. Freshwater is interesting on how it builds a foothold.

[amwassil]

Day 77 (7 days growth):

6215 6216

No cleaning today.

[SantaMonica]

In the left pic, notice how it looks like the thickest growth is at the middle on the bottom, where the bubbles come out, and at the top where the bubbles accumulate.

[amwassil]

The same in the right photo, just not as pronounced. Reviewing some of the previous photos I can see the same general growth pattern. Are you making note of that for general information, or is there something I should do? Thanks.

[SantaMonica]

Nothing to do, just noting that the air bubbles cause the most growth.

[amwassil]

Water params as of Sep01:

1. pH: 6.6 - 6.8
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): ~40+
5. Phosphate (PO4): ~4+

[Sep05] I forgot to note that phosphate is down by 1 since Aug01, AND down by 6 since Jun12 when I started the scrubbers. That's encouraging.

[amwassil]

Day 84, 12 weeks (14 days growth):

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I toothbrushed both today. It looks like I got somewhat better lighting on the left photo. Both scrubbers were equally green, so the difference in the photos is due to lighting.

[SantaMonica]

These were before scrubbing, correct?

[amwassil]

Yes.

[amwassil]

Saturday, Sep 12, one week's growth:

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No cleaning today. Just letting it grow. I don't know why I seem to have a problem with the second photo each week. Maybe it's because the door isn't fully opened and it blocks some of the light.

[amwassil]

Water params as of Oct01:

1. pH: 6.6
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): ~40+
5. Phosphate (PO4): ~4

[amwassil]

A week ago I moved one of my Drops from the big fish tank to my small Dwarf Gourami tank (10 gallon tank with about 8 1/2 gallons of water). I did this because I am getting a bit frustrated trying to get the nitrates down in that tank by water changes. I've been changing 4 gallons of water daily (2 in the morning and 2 in the evening) for a couple of months and nitrates stubbornly remain between 10-20ppm. Yesterday I did full tank cleaning/maintenance, changed about 75% of the water, pulled the canister filter offline and added my second Drop. Starting water params were:

Nov 07:
1. pH: 7.0
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 3.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.25

This morning (about 18 hours after the above tests) nitrates are 2.0 (excellent!) and pH, ammonia and nitrite the same. I did not test for phosphate but will at the end of the week.

So now, the only filtration on that tank are the two Drops. I'm going to test daily for the next week. I expect nitrates to stay low or maybe go to zero because the canister nitrate generator is gone. My concern now is that ammonia/ammonium also stay at zero. I have a male and female Dwarf Gourami and a couple of big apple snails in the tank. Feeding is pretty light.

If the Drops can keep the water at or near pristine, I will swap tanks with my Dwarf African Frogs, who are currently in a 15 gallon tank. The 10 gallon tank is adequate for the frogs and the larger tank will enable me to get a second pair of Gouramis. You may wonder why. The short answer is I've lost nearly half a dozen Dwarf Gouramis to nitrate poisoning. These guys need pristine water and are very sensitive to any nitrate. You may wonder why bother. These little guys are very beautiful and friendly.

I will definitely report how well the Drops maintain water quality as the sole filtration in this tank.

[amwassil]

Nov9 9:30 pm. I am very pleased to report that nitrate went to 0.0 by this evening. Curiously, pH dropped to 6.6.

This morning the water had a lot of visible debris floating around and looked a bit cloudy, like there was some very fine stuff. Maybe that brought the pH down. I don't know if that is a temporary phenomenon or if I'm just feeding too much. At any rate, I changed 2 gallons of water. Then I put online an idle Eheim Classic 150 canister to filter out the debris. The canister is filled with coarse and fine sponges, topped by about 1 1/2" or so of floss. Within an hour the water had cleared noticeably. The cloudiness is gone and there is very little debris floating around. So that works. I'm going to clean the Eheim every month or 6 weeks with bleach to kill any nitrifying bacteria that might try to get established in it.

[SantaMonica]

You probably don't want to kill any bacteria; if bacteria are there, then they are consuming ammonia and/or nitrite.

[amwassil]

Nov10 8:00 pm. I am very saddened to report that my female Dwarf Gourami died this afternoon. Water params this afternoon:

1. pH: 6.6
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0

The water also became cloudy today and I changed 2 gallons of water again, which cleared it up. The female looked better and became more active after I changed the water. But she died a couple hours later. I also noticed the water has a methane/swampy odor. So now I'm thinking something is producing methane but I don't understand how. Anyone have any ideas?

The male gourami looks pretty stressed as well, but at least he's still alive. We pulled him out of the tank and put him in a smaller container with no filters attached. We'll just keep changing water and hope he recovers. I'm really not having much success with these fish. All my other fish are happy and healthy, but what a challenge to keep these gouramis alive.


You probably don't want to kill any bacteria; if bacteria are there, then they are consuming ammonia and/or nitrite.

I'm using the Eheim strictly for mechanical filtration. If the drops can keep ammonia and nitrite at zero, then I don't really care about whatever bacteria might colonize the Eheim.

[amwassil]

Nov28 Water params:

1. pH: 7.2 (Note: I added about 1/4 tsp baking soda on Nov23 to account for additional water added to keep the tank topped up)
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite: 0.0
4. Nitrate: 20.0
5. Phosphate: 1
6. dKH: 4 (~70ppm KH)
7. Calcium: 380ppm

I have not changed water since Nov11, although I have added about 500ml this past week to keep the water topped up. Nitrates have not decreased measurably yet, but phosphate continues to decrease. I expect phosphate will hit 0.0 before next weekend and hopefully the algae will start eating nitrate. The algae grew much thicker this past week than previously. So it looks like maintaining pH at 7.0 or above is good for the algae.

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I've also started measuring dKH and Calcium. I supplement calcium using white chalk sticks. The snails are much more active now with the increased pH and calcium.

[amwassil]

Dec01 Water params

1. pH: 7.2
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 10.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.5
6. dKH: 3 (~53ppm)
7. Calcium: 420ppm

Finally, nitrates are coming down!

[SantaMonica]

Nice, and no hassle with water changes.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Dec05

1. pH: 7.5
2. Ammonia (NH3/4): 0.25
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): < 0.5
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0 - 0.25
6. kH: dKH 3 (53ppm)
7. Calcium: 280ppm

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I swapped my 10 gallon and 15 gallon tanks yesterday because I had to make some space where the 15 gallon had been located. So the two drops are now in the 15 gallon tank. I reused as much water as I could from the 10 gallon tank and then topped up the tank to about 12 gallons with fresh filtered water. So the above parameters reflect conditions after that change and added water. It's interesting that I did not add any baking soda, yet the pH increased from last week.

Also, for the past couple of days there is detectable ammonia/ammonium. Does anyone have any ideas why that might happen after weeks of 0.0 ammonia? Because the pH is above 7 I'd say it's all ammonium. Plus there are only snails in the tank, so I'm not too concerned about it. Yet, why would ammonia suddenly appear, especially after the algae has started to grow much more vigorously. The algae is consuming both nitrates and phosphorus, so maybe it forgot about ammonia?

[SantaMonica]

Algae does not forget about ammonia.

You probably just moved something.

[amwassil]

Thanks. I forgot my :rolleyes:

[dryworm]

put some floating plants in your aquarium like pennywort, anacharis or hornwort. they are fast growing and absorb alot of nitrates.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Dec12/15:

1. pH: 7.5+
2. Ammonia (NH3/4): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0
6. kH: dKH 3 (53ppm)
7. Calcium: 420ppm

6329 6330

I cleaned the Eheim filter today. I thought the lingering odor might be coming from the sponges or floss in it, but that was not the case. I cleaned and bleached everything just the same. In case someone hasn't read previous posts, I am using the Eheim for mechanical filtration only, not bio. I added a small bag of activated charcoal to the tank to eliminate the last vestiges of odor. This seems to be working as there is hardly any detectable odor now. Before putting my two gouramis back in, I'm going to let the pH drop a little since it is at the upper end of the desired range for them and the small bowl they're in now has a lower pH. I'll try to match pH in both the smaller bowl and the 15 gallon tank before moving them back in.

Also, I need to raise KH a little. Does anyone know how to do so without increasing pH? I use sticks of chalk to maintain calcium levels, but even though they are carbonate, they don't seem to affect KH at all. So I've been using baking soda to raise KH, but I don't want to do that because it will also raise the pH. So what to do? Thanks.

[SantaMonica]

Just add a little CO2, or vinegar, to bring the pH down.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Dec19/15 (gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.2
2. Ammonia (NH3/4): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0
6. kH: dKH 3 (53ppm)
7. Calcium: 440ppm

Looks like things have stabilized sufficiently to re-introduce the two dwarf gouramis back to this tank. There is no odor any more. I'm in process now of equalizing pH and temp between this tank and their temporary bowl. While waiting to complete that, which will take a couple more hours I'd guess, I'm going to pull one of the drops from this tank and put it in my african dwarf frog tank.

4:20pm:
I've cleaned both drops and moved one to the frog tank. Both drops had about the same amount of growth as last week, which I found somewhat surprising given the low nutrients in the gourami tank. About half the algae in each drop was brown. It looked just like the green hair algae growing in them, except its colour. Would I be correct in thinking the brown colour is the result of low nutrients?

Weekly update Dec19/15 (frog tank)

1. pH: 7.0
2. Ammonia (NH3/4): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 40.0+
5. Phosphate (PO4): 10.0+

This tank has a cycling canister attached to it, so I'm only going to report on the pH, Nitrate and Phosphate here. My main goal in this tank is to determine how long it takes the algae to lower Phosphate and Nitrate. I do partial water changes in this tank, but not on any particular schedule, only when the water starts to look grubby and/or there's a lot of debris buildup on the bottom. The pH tends to drop in this tank so I will continue to use baking soda to try to keep it at or slightly above 7.0 to max algae growth in the drop. There are some snails in this tank as well, and I add chalk to maintain some calcium in the water.

[amwassil]

When I put the two dwarf gouramis back in the tank the male started showing signs of stress almost right away (ie flopping on his side). I waited about an hour to determine whether it was just due to the move, but apparently not. So I put them back in the small bowl again.

I decided to do a 100% water change, clean both the tank and the Ehein canister and try again today. That's done now and both fish are in the tank again with no signs of stress this time. That suggests to me that the most likely culprit is the chalk sticks I've added for carbonate and calcium. There's possibly something else in them, binder I presume, that the gourami is sensitive to.

New starting water parameters Dec20/15:

1. pH: 7.2
2. Ammonia (NH3/4): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0
6. kH: dKH 3 (53ppm)
7. Calcium: 40ppm

I am going to stop using chalk sticks and try to substitute another source of carbonate and calcium. There's never a dull moment.

[SantaMonica]

Brown means higher nutrients in the water, or less scrubber light. Green means less nutrients in the water, or more scrubber light.

[amwassil]

Brown means higher nutrients in the water, or less scrubber light. Green means less nutrients in the water, or more scrubber light.

Thanks. That's good to know. My suspicion is it's related to light. Those two drops were not on a timer so I had to turn them on/off manually. I can see the necessity of using a timer to get the light consistently right.

[SantaMonica]

Try them with no timer. Some FW scrubbers can do it.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Dec26/15 (gourami tank)

Lots happened this past week. I bought a 25lb bag of 'Cinnamon Farms General Purpose Dolomite Lime' which is produced in Nanaimo, BC. It is crushed calcium and magnesium carbonates along with whatever other minerals are in the source dolomite rock. It is very fine grained, mostly powder mixed with a small amount of very find sand. It does not contain any additives. Most of it dissolves into the water, leaving only the small sand grains on the bottom. I imagine they will also dissolve over time. So that's my new calcium/magnesium and carbonate source to try to buffer pH and bring up the general and carbonate alkalinity and provide calcium and magnesium for the snails.

In my water tests on Dec22 there were very small, but detectable, amounts ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate. I added a 1/4tsp of dolomite to the tank in the hopes of stimulating the algae. I also left the drop lights on both in this tank and the frog tank. They have been on non-stop until I pulled them out for cleaning today.

In my water tests on Dec23 ammonia/ammonium and nitrate were still at small but detectable amounts, however, nitrite and phosphate had increased! The phosphate had increased to 1.0ppm from only a trace the day before! The rising nitrite concerned me because the two gouramis are very sensitive to nitrite. So I changed 2 gallons of water. This tank has about 12 gallons total.

The morning of Dec24 I changed another 2 gallons of water and did so again in midafternoon. These water changes knocked everything except phosphate back down to barely detectable (I indicate this in my log as 0.0+). Also, the drop was growing a nice looking crop of dark green algae. So it looks like the algae is consuming nutrients again. After my water test, I change another 2 gallons of water. Also, just to be safe, I pulled the male gourami out of this tank temporarily. He is extremely sensitive to nitrite, and he was injured by previous nitrite/ammonia exposure, so I want him out until water params stabilize again. The female is not showing any signs of stress, so she is still in the tank.

The morning of Dec25 I changed another 2 gallons of water and then tested. Everything now was back to 0.0 except phosphate.

Dec26/15 (gourami tank)
1. pH: 7.2
2. Ammonia (NH3/4): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): ~ 0.1
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): ~ 0.25

After doing the above tests, I changed 2 gallons of water to try to dilute the nitrite more. It is still detectable, so I'll change another 2 gallons of water this evening after feeding, so any leftover food gets siphoned out of the tank. Detectable nitrite is a concern. There must be some nitrifying bacteria colonized in the tank and/or the Eheim filter sponges. I guess to be safe I had better just let it continue to colonize both in the hopes of growing enough nitrite-eating bacteria to keep it under control. So no more sterilyzing the canister sponges! Unfortunately, that kind of defeats the object of my experiment to determine whether the drop can function as the sole filter on this tank. But I don't want my fish to die!

The drop from the gourami tank prior to cleaning: 6352

I suspect that the problems arose from cleaning the drops too vigorously last Saturday and they stopped growing algae for a couple of days before recovering. So today I did a much less thorough cleaning in the hopes to avoid that happening again.


Try them with no timer. Some FW scrubbers can do it.

I'm going to leave the lights on 24 hours for awhile. We'll see how it goes.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Dec26/15 (frog tank)

1. pH: 7.0
2. Nitrate (NO3): 40.0+
3. Phosphate (PO4): 2.0+

6354

Interesting how much the phosphate dropped from last week, from 10+! I suspect phosphate fluctuates quickly, even daily. Uneaten, decaying food, poop? I changed 2 gallons of water in this tank yesterday using clean newly filtered water. So that likely brought the phosphate down some, but I think the algae eats phosphate first so I expect it will continue to fall over the next week when I am unlikely change any water other than topping up as it evaporates.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there is a cycling canister attached to this tank, so I am not reporting on ammonia/ammonium or nitrite since they are always 0.0. I put the drop in here in the hopes the algae will eventually consume the nitrates and phosphates.


Update Dec28/15:

I changed 2 gallons of water around noon today as there was quite a bit of food debris. I did not test the water. I need to feed less since the frogs eat very little. There are also some snails in this tank with the frogs and they do clean up some of the leftover food.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Jan02/15 (gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.6
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0

6366

Lights are still on 24/7 and algae is growing well.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Jan02/15 (frog tank)

1. pH: 7.2
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 40+
5. Phosphate (PO4): 2.0

6367

Lights are still on 24/7 and algae is growing very thick.

[amwassil]

Jan06/16

We made some changes over the weekend. Moved the two dwarf gouramis into a small bowl for permanent residence. The wife is going to take care of them. I am thinking to get a 2.5 gallon Aqueon Betta Bow which holds about a gallon more water. Right now the primary issue is we have to turn the 5watt heater on/off to maintain the temperature and I hope that more water will eliminate that. Also, the Aqueon unit comes with a built-in filter that sits in the hood right under the LED light source. This is notorious for growing algae! :rolleyes:

Yesterday we purchased 5 gouramis (2 gold, 2 blues and 1 pearl) for the 15 gallon tank with the drop in it. One of the blues is a male, all the others are females. These are not dwarfs but they only grow to about 4-6 inches. They are mine to care for. As of yesterday water params are:

1. pH: 7.0
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0

I added a little vinegar to bring the pH down from 7.6. Although I later read that these gouramis are fine with pH 7.6 and even higher. So I'll let the pH go up a bit to keep the algae growing well.

Jan08: bought a second pearl gourami, a male, to keep the other pearl company. He's a real beauty. So now there are 6 juvenile gouramis, plus 3 large and 1 medium sized apple snails in this aquarium. The gouramis will outgrow this tank by summer and I'll have to replace with a 25 or 30 gallon tank.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Jan09/15 (gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.6
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0+
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0

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[amwassil]

Weekly update Jan09/15 (frog tank)

1. pH: 7.0
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 40+
5. Phosphate (PO4): 2.0

6396 6397

[amwassil]

Weekly update Jan16/15 (gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.2+
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 5.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0

6403

Jan10: both nitrate and phosphate became measurable: Nitrate 5.0 and Phosphate 0.25. I thought, "OK, I probably cleaned the drop a little too vigorously" and it will take a couple days for the algae to start growing again.

Jan11: Nitrate 5.0 and Phosphate 5.0! Immediately after testing, I changed 1 1/2 gallons of water in order to clear debris from the bottom of the tank. I replaced with new filtered water.

Jan12: Nitrate 5.0 and Phosphate 0.25. OK, diluted the phosphate when I added the new water. But didn't affect nitrate, why not?

Jan13: Nitrate 5.0+ and Phosphate < 0.25. Nitrate UP a bit(!) and phosphate down a little.

Jan14: Nitrate 10+ (!) and Phosphate < 0.25. So now what's going on here? After this test, I changed 2 gallons of water. Later in the evening I changed 2 gallons more.

Jan15: I found my female pearl gourami dead. I immediately changed 2 gallons of water. Tested after the water change: Nitrate 5.0+ and Phosphate < 0.25. So it looks like something caused a nitrate spike and I managed to dilute it with yesterday's and this morning's water changes. Later in the evening I changed 2 gallons more water.

Jan16: I changed 2 gallons of water a couple hours before testing. Today's test results are above.

So I'm quite confused and just a bit discouraged by all this. Lesson #1 (I guess): don't clean the drop much! So today I only pulled out what I could with my fingers, then rinsed a few times under tap water.

Question #1: how can the drop grow so much algae in a week (see photo) and nitrates and phosphate RISE?

Question #2: how can I change so much water (2 + 2 gallons on the 14th, 2 + 2 on the 15th, and 2 so far today and not dilute nitrates? This in a 15 gallon tank with about 10-12 gallons of water.

Question #3: could the attached Eheim be generating all this nitrate? The tank?

Question #4: at what nitrate concentration is the algae growing in the drop unable to reduce nitrates to zero? 5ppm? 10ppm?

Question #5: if I stop feeding the fish for a couple days (Oh! they won't like that much!) will that help the algae to get back in control of the nitrates? I would prefer doing that rather than a 50-75% water change.

By the way, my source water contains 0.0 nitrates.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Jan16/15 (frog tank)

1. pH: 7.2
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 40+
5. Phosphate (PO4): < 2.0

[SantaMonica]

It's growing more because there are more nutrients; but still more than can be absorbed. And since there is only one, cleaning it removes your filter for a few days.

Stopping/reducing feeding would help but sort of defeats the goal. Can they eat the growth?

By the way, now you can see the thick growth mostly just on the rocks, because it can't hold on to the smooth plastic.

[amwassil]

Stopping/reducing feeding would help but sort of defeats the goal. Can they eat the growth?

Yes, the gouramis all like to eat algae. I keep my weekly 'harvest' in a plastic food container in the fridge and feed daily not only the gouramis, who eat all the algae I give them, but the other fish as well. The platys seem to like it, the rosy barbs like to play with it and I think they eat some. The golden barbs eat some but not much. Interestingly, I've never seen the corys eat the fresh algae, although they seem to like the dry wafers, especially when I grind them into a coarse sand for them.

Not much algae finds its way out of the drop while it's sitting in the gourami tank. I suppose I could pick up the box a couple times each day and let the water drain out. Some algae comes out with the water. Is something like that what you had in mind?

[SantaMonica]

Or you could enlarge the holes, and let the fish eat constantly. My goldfish has learned to pull the algae out by himself. My cory does not care.

[amwassil]

Jan18/16

Pleased to report that ammonia and nitrite are still zero after Saturday's cleaning. So I know now how much to clean the drops. :) While phosphate remains at zero, nitrate remains stubbornly at 5.0ppm. I changed 2 gallons of water yesterday but don't intend to change any more for a while unless nitrates (and/or ammonia) spike again. On the premise that something is generating nitrates and the most likely suspect is the attached Eheim, I took the Eheim offline after today's water tests. Because the algae in the drop is maintaining phosphates at zero, I conclude that the algae is growing normally and can eat whatever ammonia gets generated by the fish, snails and detritus decay.

My original purpose of adding the Eheim to the tank, to eliminate floating debris, has been pretty much replaced by the fish. They eat all the stray algae and everything else settles out where I can syphon it from the bottom every morning.

[amwassil]

Jan19/16


...you could enlarge the holes.

I reamed out the top hole in the drop in the gourami tank to 3/16" on the premise that I can always make it bigger if need be. My hope is that small bits of algae will work their way out and there will be an increase in water through the box. I'm thinking that will get more water over the algae and possibly increase efficiency. Because...

There was detectable, although not measurable ammonia today. No nitrite, though. I added a small amount of Prime just to be safe. I don't want to reattach the Eheim unless the ammonia increases.

When I pulled the drop and opened it up to ream out the hole, there was lots of new algae growth.

[SantaMonica]

I think you need more surface area in the tank for help with ammonia.

[amwassil]

I think you need more surface area in the tank for help with ammonia.

For algae or bacteria? I could move the other drop back from the frog tank. Or I could stick a light on the tank and try to grow algae in the tank where the fish will probably eat most of it. I'll see how it goes over the next few days. I'll feed a little less and syphon out bottom debris diligently.

[SantaMonica]

Just a porous decoration, to give more surface for bacteria.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Jan23/15 (gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.4
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): < 5.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0

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Jan19: As noted, there was detectable ammonia. I added 50 drops of Prime.

Jan20: A slight increase in ammonia, but this was likely due to the Prime. Seachem's techs say that the presence of Prime will give false higher readings for both ammonia and nitrite with salicylate test kits like API.

Jan21: Ammonia was higher again, and nitrate was up also. The higher nitrate could also have been due to the Prime. I added 25 drops of Prime.

Jan22: I changed 5 gallons of water, which brought the ammonia down to 0.0+ and the nitrate back down to 5.0. I also moved the drop from the frog tank back to this tank. It seems to me that with the fish and snails the single drop can not consume all the nutrients being generated. Rather than increase bacterial filtration, which will only result in ever increasing nitrate that will require never-ending water changes, I'd rather increase algae growth and try to control nitrates with that. Moving the other drop resulted in a lot of debris getting into the water, so I reconnected the Eheim for about 3 1/2 hours to clean it up.

The wife and I went to one of our local fish stores in the early evening to replace the female pearl gourami who died last Friday. We ended up buying both a female pearl and another female golden. So there are now 7 gouramis, three large and one medium sized snails in the tank.

Jan23: I changed 5 gallons of water before doing today's tests indicated above. I cleaned both drops, although I did not make a photo of the drop I moved from the frog tank since most of its algae growth had occurred while in the frog tank. I also reconnected the Eheim for about 3 hours to clear debris from the water again. The water is nice and clear now and I have siphoned debris from the bottom.

I intend to change another 5 gallons of water tomorrow prior to testing to try to knock down the nitrate a bit more. With nitrate well below 5.0, I'll then see if the two drops can take it down to zero and keep the ammonia at zero for the rest of the week.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Jan30/16 (gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.6
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.25
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0+
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0

6441

I only cleaned one of the drops and will clean the other on Wednesday. There was lots of algae in the drop and I simply rinsed out the loose gobs and used a toothbrush to clear algae off the lights and the lid.

Jan24: Changed 5 gallons of water. This brought Ammonia/ium down to 0.0 and Nitrates down to 0.0++.

Jan25: Ammonia/ium was back up to 0.25! but Nitrate was down to 0.0+. I added 50 drops of Prime to ensure the ammonia/ium didn't cause any problem. Later in the day I changed 5 gallons of water because when I used my Eheim with the vacuum tube to clean the bottom, there must have been some stale water in the tube and/or the canister which made the water stink again. The water change got rid of most of the odor, but not all.

Jan26: Ammonia/ium and Nitrate both went to 0.0.

Jan27: I changed 1 gallon of water cleaning the bottom.

Jan28: I added a sponge filter to help clear debris from the water. I also intend to let nitrifying bacteria colonize it to help with the bio-filtration. The drops don't seem to be able to maintain Ammonia/ium at zero on their own, but I'm hoping they will keep Nitrates at or near zero after the sponge starts cycling.

Jan29: Ammonia/ium went to 0.0+.

Jan30: I changed 1 gallon of water cleaning the bottom a couple hours before taking today's test readings. As you can see Ammonia/ium and Nitrate are both up a bit.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Feb01/16 (gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.4
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0+
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0

[amwassil]

Weekly update Feb07/16 (gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.4
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.25
4. Nitrate (NO3): < 5
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0

6444 6445

The left photo was made on Feb04 and right photo on Feb06. I had intended to clean the left drop on Feb03, but forgot. But the cleaning schedule going forward is Sat and Wed. As you can see from the above photos and previous photos, lots of algae is growing in both drops.

Unfortunately, although lots of algae is growing in the drops, they do not seem to be maintaining the nutrients at or near zero very well. Both ammonia/ium and nitrite fluctuate up and down during the week. Nitrates also go up and down but more slowly generally from zero to 5ppm over a week and a half or so. I've been doing 1 & 2 gallon water changes a couple times per week when cleaning bottom debris and those seem to knock down the ammonia/ium and nitrtrite. I do 5 gallon water changes to knock down nitrates below 5 once it gets above that. It seems that once nitrates go above 5ppm the algae cannot take it back to zero without a large water change.

Judging by the fluctuations in ammonia/ium and nitrites, I'd say the sponge is starting to cycle but still has a ways to go before those two nutrients become undetectable. At that point I suspect nitrates will go up faster than they do currently, so I'll likely have to do a 5 gallon water change once per week to keep it under control since based on my experience so far the two drops will not keep nitrated below 5ppm without the water changes. I'll see how it goes over the next couple weeks as I expect the sponge will be fully cycling in that time frame. I cleaned the sponge once this past week and it smells rather 'earthy' which I presume is the bacterial colony.

I'm still running the LEDs in the drops 24/7. Does anyone think algae would grow better/thicker/faster if the lights are off a few hours each day?

[SantaMonica]

No if they are packed with 24 hours of light, that's probably the max.

[amwassil]

Thanks. I'll leave the LEDs on 24/7 and watch what happens.

The water in this tank still has an odor, a lot like poop. So I cleaned the sponge again today and changed 3 gallons of water while syphoning out debris from the bottom. I did a good job of it. Most of the odor is gone, but not all. Tomorrow, if the odor remains and/or is worse than today, I plan to pull one of the drops and clean it thoroughly and the other one on Wednesday. Yes, I know this will set back the algae growth but if the odor is not coming from the sponge, it's coming from one or both drops. There's nothing else in the tank but the fish and a couple of apple snails. I clean debris from the bottom every day with a pipette, so there's nothing building up on the bottom. I'll do water changes to keep nutrients fairly low until the algae grows back.

[amwassil]

Weekly update Feb13/16 (gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.4
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): < 5
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0



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6454

6455
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The left set of photos (drop #1) were done on Wednesday, the right set (drop #2) today.

[amwassil]

Monthly update Mar08/16 (standard gourami tank)

Mar08/16 (standard gourami tank)
1. pH: 7.0
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): 40.0
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.25

I'm dropping back to once a month water params only. Not much is happening here, so I don't see much point in weekly reports any more. Both drops are currently in the gourami tank. Both drops are producing lots of algae each week. There is also a sponge filter in this tank. The sponge is apparently cycling as per the Nitrates.

Nitrates are too high for the gouramis. I neglected to make water tests daily for a couple of weeks, so I didn't notice the Nitrate rising until Mar08. It had been less than 5.0 at the last test on Feb13, so I didn't think it would rise with all the water changes I've been doing. I have been changing 1 or 2 gallons of water daily in this tank while cleaning debris off the bottom. This is a 15 gallon tank with about 10 gallons of water in it, so obviously, 10% and 20% daily water changes have doodly squat effect on Nitrate levels.

After making my water tests yesterday I immediately changed 5 gallons of water. I changed another 2 gallons today and will change another 2 gallons tomorrow. After tomorrow's water change I will make my water test again to verify that Nitrates are down below 5 and if not, change another 2 gallons immediately.

In an attempt to get more nutrient removal via algae, today I cleaned one of the drops and put a roughened plastic screen in it to increase surface area. This is the black screen that came with the drop and I cut it down a bit to fit better. I've had it lying around doing nothing until now. When I clean the other drop on Sat. I will put it's screen back in. If algae doesn't want to grow on the black screen, I will replace it with my white plastic canvas.

6473

[amwassil]

Monthly update Apr01/16 (standard gourami tank)

1. pH: 7.2+
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrite (NO2): 0.0
4. Nitrate (NO3): ~ 20.0 (Apr01)
4. Nitrate (NO3): < 5.0 (Apr02)
5. Phosphate (PO4): 0.0

An update on this tank. I'm doing daily 2 gallon water changes since my last report. Even with that amount of water changing, nitrates still rose to 20.0ppm over the course of 3 weeks or so. To get nitrates down for today's test, I changed 8-9 gallons of water today a couple hours before doing the test. So even with both drops growing lots of algae in this tank AND changing 20% of the water DAILY, nitrates still rose significantly over only 3 weeks! I find that really disappointing. There are 6 fish and 2 snails in the tank. I'm hoping the fish stop growing in a month or two more, then maybe I can feed them a bit less. They eat voraciously and produce poop to match.

BTW the screens I added to both drops have increased algae growth significantly. So that works well.

In addition to the daily water changes I guess I'm going to have change about 5 gallons (50%) once a week.

I'm seriously considering trying Nitra Zorb. Anyone have any experience with it to relate? I get rather aggravated by those 'experienced' people on various fish boards who say: "I just do water changes; I don't see any point using the crutch products designed for lazy beginners, etc". I wonder if they ever bother to test for nitrates? My experience over several years is that only massive water changes (75-80+%) done regularly have any effect on nitrates. When you have a situation like I do, where my source water is virtually 100% mineral-free, big water changes just mean I have to add calcium and carbonate back to the water constantly and it's a lot of tedious work to add stuff and measure pH, hardness and calcium repeatedly.

[amwassil]

Apr05

I removed the sponge filter yesterday. I also added a small hang-on filter that has a pouch of Algone in it. This was in my main fish tank for the past two months, changing out the pouch with a new one every second week. I just changed it on Friday. So when I put the Nitra Zorb in my fish tank, I figured I might as well move the Algone to this tank until it's expended.

Nitrate was up to 5.0 yesterday. After today's 2 gallon water change, nitrate is still 5.0, so I'm hopeful that with the sponge out that's where it stops and will start to go down. Also, there was detectable ammonia today: 0.25. I'm curious how the ammonia goes for the next couple of days. The Algone is supposed to remove ammonia as well as nitrate. Once the nitrate is gone, hopefully the algae in the two drops will start consuming ammonia as well. So, this is to be determined. If ammonia is up again tomorrow I will add Prime. If it continues to rise, I'll have to do a big % water change to knock it back.

[amwassil]

Apr23

1. pH: 7.2
2. Ammonia (NH3): 0.0
3. Nitrate (NO3): 0.0

I removed the Algone about 7 days ago. I put the sponge back for mechanical filtration. The water just gets too full of debris without it. However, to prevent cycling I remove the sponge every 2 or 3 days and sterilize it (hot tap water). So the only biological filtration occurring in this tank is the algae growing in the two drops. I'm still changing 2 gallons of water daily. If the water params remain as they are for the next few weeks or month, I will back off on the water changes and watch what happens.

In addition to the 6 gouramis, I put an adult female Chinese Gold Barb in this tank today. She's about the same size as the gouramis and after some initial sniffing and touching, there is no aggression or hostility happening. This particular barb consistently got skin lesions that required removing her from the main fish tank periodically. I suspect that the high nitrate level in that tank is the culprit. So after spending a week in the hospital tank I decided to put her with the gouramis to see if the skin problem stays away. There are 7 other gold barbs in the main fish tank and none of them have a problem with skin lesions. So I presume it's a problem specific to this particular fish. A couple other gold barbs who also had the same issue died in the hospital tank, so this is serious. None of the other fish in that tank have any apparent problems: rosy barbs, Buenos Aires tetras, platys, various corydoras species and the ancistrus male.

I need to replace this tank with a bigger one. I'm looking at tanks around 30 gallons and I don't want to be changing 5-10 gallons daily! So I'm hoping the water params stabilize and I can back off on the water changes to weekly or even less. Depends on the nitrates staying at or near 0.0 since the gouramis are so sensitive to it.

[SantaMonica]

I wish I had your knowledge of freshwater fish because it would make FW testing easier. For now I just stick to the FW-fish-for-dummies.

[amwassil]

Oh, I think you're likely getting better advice from your book. :rolleyes:

I think I've figured out my water change issues with this tank. Today, instead of removing 2 gallons while cleaning the bottom and then replacing it with fresh source water, I siphoned the water through a fine sponge back into the tank. I did this 3 times today, but normally I would only do it once. Each time I lose a little bit of water to the bucket, but that's OK. I'm going to continue this procedure for a week or two and test the tank water every couple of days to see if the params stay good. If this works out, then moving to a bigger tank won't entail big daily water changes, only bottom cleaning and topping up as required.