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herring_fish
11-04-2009, 01:07 PM
I know that there are several areas that would get me in trouble so I would like you to think about this with a fresh eye and then give me the brutal truth about what would and would not work in your opinion.

I am looking for a simpler way to grow cultures that wouldn’t require green water which is fairly high maintenance, particularly because of the frequent crashes. I am also looking for a way that others could find more reasonable to pursue, if they want to spend a little extra money

I am getting some top flight technical support in an effort to find formula that could do as good or better than using green water. I can't talk about it because my help would be inundated with inquiries. Therefore let's make the dubious assumption that I will have something worked out soon and let's move past that point for now.

There is one fly in the ointment however. Knowing some of what I will use, I have a concerned about water quality issues which might creep in and make it even harder to grow cultures.

So....How can we get around this potential drawback in a simple way? How about the old algae scrubber in a simpler form?

Off the top of my head, my first design ideas starts with a small to medium tank. I would add a removable black plastic plate about 2 or 3 inches from and parallel to the glass at the end of the tank.

It would go from front to back but would not reach the bottom and not go all the way to the water level. A bubble bar, place between the plate and the glass would forms a wall of bubbles that should cause a gentle role of the water in the tank and should agitate the algae strands to break down the boundary layers. Hopefully this would increase the efficiency of the algal growth and nutrient uptake.

An inexpensive but strong light, like a curly compact florescent, shines through the glass and the bubbles to illuminate a plate that would grow algae. This would help to keep the water quality high. The black plastic would help shield the rest of the tank from the light. The plate would be pulled out, scraped cleaned and replaced about once every week. If it is scored enough, a screen would not be required. Alternately, the plate could be fixed and a screen could be used in front of the plate.

Another option would be to put sand on the bottom of the tank. This could simply build a bed for pathogens but I don’t want to rule it out without thinking it through.

At first, this seems like just a food trap but a deep sand bed could provide further support for water quality. Several years ago, when I was using a powdered product to grow brine shrimp, they would swim down to feed right off of the bottom. Do you think that rotifers would do the same thing? I don’t think so either.

The sand could be stirred up periodically to release bacteria. Perhaps this could be done just before harvest time and at the same time as adding final vitamin enrichment. Of course bacteria could be a two edged sword which could causes the culture to crash.

Along with the positive bacteria, my formula and the rotifers there would be quite a wide spectrum of critters in that soup.

This is frowned on but it would be nice to cycle main tank water through this system. I would like to draw off 1/2 to 2/3 of the culture tank and pour it straight into the main tank. That same amount would be drawn from the main tank to refill the culture tank for the next cycle. I have heard that starting with clean tap or RO salt water makes for less pathogens but perhaps the scrubber would help the overall water quality enough to allow this.

Please give this some thought and feed back.

SantaMonica
11-07-2009, 12:04 PM
I can only comment on the scrubber. I don't think the bubbles will work; just use a regular scrubber above it, draining into it.

herring_fish
11-07-2009, 06:12 PM
I am trying not to use a pump which might cut down on the survival rate. "They" always say to use a tube without an air stone. Gentle bubbles are normally suppose to cause a gentle role of the water volume, but I haven't used an air pump in about 18 years and haven't raised rotifers.

SantaMonica
11-08-2009, 09:47 PM
Just screen out the rotifers.

herring_fish
11-09-2009, 06:58 AM
How?

SantaMonica
11-22-2009, 03:34 PM
Just use a regular pump, with a screen on the intake.

Paul J
12-03-2009, 11:55 AM
Hi all,

I used to manage a university aquaculture research lab. we raised marine rotifers (plicatilis) in a 20 gallon tank with heavy aeration and only algae growing in a thick layer on the sides of the tank as a means of filtration (an in the tank algae scrubber). It works great for low density culture. I fed the rotifers once perday with a mixture of baking yeast (live) and spirulina powder disoled in about 4oz. of fresh water. Let the solution set a few minutes to activate the yeast.

Best fishes,

Paul
Aquaculture consultant ;)

herring_fish
12-03-2009, 12:14 PM
So that worked? Hmmmm Very simple. I think that I could do that.
Thankyou

Oh ...Did the culture crash periodically because of other contaminants building up? Did you have to do periodic maintenance to prevent this?

Paul J
12-04-2009, 10:44 AM
I did not have any crashes that I recall. The algae layer coating the inside of the tank kept the water clean.
The most important thing is not to over feed the tank with yeast.
If you need to just do a partial water change. I used Instant ocean.
Start with small feedings of yeast/spirulina and slowly increase as the rotifer population grows.
Best fishes,
Paul

kcress
12-04-2009, 05:58 PM
What is Green Water?

Otherwise, I think your plan would work fine if you instead cover that plate with multiple layered rough screen.

herring_fish
12-04-2009, 06:33 PM
I call it green water but because I often type in the wrong word for it but it is phytoplankton or bugs that live on sun light.
If you read about it around the web, you will fine that it is pretty close to the bottom of the food chain. Zooplankton like rotifers , the next step in the chain, eats the phytoplankton and corals eat the zooplankton. They are used a lot for breeding fish as well. Unfortunately, as I studied up on culturing green water, I found out that culture crashing was common unless you take great care not to let certain bacteria get out of hand.

You can see what worley is doing with it on this site at:

Board index ‹ Off-topic ‹ Other DIY Projects/DesignsCulturing < Phytoplankton
or
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14)

herring_fish
04-26-2010, 12:52 PM
I have read that I should not cycle water from the main tank through the culture tank and back. I have been thinking about trying it because I can use the powders instead of the green water. Perhaps there are thing that I don't know about that would complicate this practice. If I take out a gallon of artemia water for example and put it in the main tank, then take a gallon of main tank water and put it back in the culture tank then I should be taking care of the potential for the powder, fouling the culture tank.

I understand that the higher pH of the main tank will encourage the growth of a bigger pod population. Although they will eat a lot of the artemia, I would hope that there would still be plenty left over and the pods would be good for the tank. If I am removing a large sample of the water, all of the inhabitance and the powders, I would be adding a great soop into the tank.

What else am I missing?

SantaMonica
04-26-2010, 04:37 PM
Just the phosphate from the culture.

herring_fish
04-26-2010, 09:34 PM
Can you fill me in some more on that? Where will the phosphates come from? Won't the Algae Scrubber take up the phosphates?

SantaMonica
04-27-2010, 07:36 PM
The fertilizer from the phyto culture will have a lot of phosphate. That's a different filtering problem that a tank. You'd have to experiment so see if everthing is filtering out if you use a scrubber.

Gigaah
06-11-2010, 08:31 PM
People are sucesfully rasing a tonsa copepods on o. marina. The o. marina can be fed algae paste and the A. Tonsa copepods will feed on the o. marina. No need for culturing phyto.
I'm not sure exactly about the rotifers but I'm pretty sure rots will eat copepods and probably directrly o. marina as well. Ask the folks at marinebreeder. They will steer you the right direction for sure.

http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/view ... 283&t=7164 (http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=283&t=7164)

I've yet to do it but its pretty proven. I have a nice fellow that is going to ship me some of each so I can start myself and he's only charging me shipping.