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View Full Version : huge nitrate spike after cleaning screen?



nrosdal
11-05-2009, 12:55 PM
have you ever noticed a huge jump in your nitrates right after you clean 1 side of your screen? i was at about 20ppm the yesterday and then i cleaned my screen today and tested about an hour later and i was at 110+. i am not really sure how it is even possible to go up that much in 24hrs but.... the only other thing i did in between testing was about a 12g water change which was with ro/di water and should have lowered the nitrates if anything.

thanks for any help.

kcress
11-05-2009, 05:54 PM
I have not done testing along those time lines. But, I have no problem imagining the nitrate moving that fast. The reason is because most established tanks have a huge bacteria excess. It is essentially completely limited by available ammonia. If something happens that spike the ammonia then all that bacteria is really to jump on processing it.

Before I'd make any big decisions though I'd run the test again next cleaning cycle. You would easily see a change like that if something died in your tank. Any fish missing? Snails?

johnrt
11-05-2009, 07:34 PM
It is also possible that you disturbed the sand-bed when removed or added water and released materials into the water column which converted to nitrates. Test before and after your next screen cleaning and water change.

John T

SantaMonica
11-06-2009, 08:50 AM
From my understanding though, the conversion to nitrate is not that fast. Ammonia to nitrite is fast, but to nitrate takes a while (days).

Sounds like a measurement mistake.

nrosdal
11-06-2009, 10:22 AM
all livestock in the tank is doing ok, and i tested it twice and got the same results. so last night i did a 25gal water change and shop vacced my sump and fuge that the scrubber is in just because when i changed water last time i stirred up a bunch of sediment/crap that was in the bottom of sump as i poured in the new water. didnt test yesterday but i will when i get home today and see how things are sitting.

nrosdal
11-06-2009, 10:51 AM
here is the log i have kept for the last lettle while for my vodka dosing. it might give you a little better idea of what is happening. thanks again


Date ------VDK Dose------Nitrate-------Phosphate---Water Change--------------Addatives
Oct-15 1ml----------------110+-----no test
Oct-16 1ml----------------110+-------5+----------------3gal
Oct-17 1ml----------------110+-------5+
Oct-18 1.25ml-------------110+------5+
Oct-19 1.25ml-------------110+------5+
Oct-20 1.25ml-------------110+------5+
Oct-21 1.5ml--------------110+------5+----------------3gal
Oct-22 1.5ml--------------110+------5+
Oct-23 1.5ml--------------110+------5+
Oct-24 1.75ml-------------110+------5+
Oct-25 1.75ml-------------110+------5+
Oct-26 1.75ml-------------110+------5+----------------3gal
Oct-27 2ml----------------110+-------5+
Oct-28 2ml----------------110+-------5+
Oct-29 2ml----------------110+-------5+----------------6gal
Oct-30 2ml-----------------20--------5+-----------------------------325g Phosphate Sponge
Oct-31 2.5ml---------------20--------5-----------------8gal
Nov-01 2.5ml---------------15--------4-----------------------------325g Phosphate Sponge
Nov-02 2.5ml---------------15--------2.5-------------4.5gal
Nov-03 2.5ml---------------15--------2----------------12gal
Nov-04 2.5ml--------------110--------2
Nov-05 3ml------------no test---no test--------------25gal

kcress
11-06-2009, 11:55 AM
Interesting numbers there.. Seems you have a digital tank! :lol:
Be interested to see if it has started back down by now.


Nitrate from nitrite is just as fast as nitrite from ammonia. Good thing too, as nitrite is considered a poison to fish just as ammonia is.

Just look at a tank cycle. Ammonia spike to nitrite is the same period as nitrite to nitrate and that's in tanks with NO prior established bacteria. Once a tank is established its quite fast all the way around.

nrosdal
11-06-2009, 12:19 PM
well i just went home and tested and i am still at 110 nitrate and phos has gone up to around 4ppm... not sure how things are staying high even with a nice water change. plus, i shut off pump and vacced out sump, ect. completely so when i was re-filling i did not stir anything up because there was nothing left to stir up. kinda sad today... might cry a little and see if that helps... any suggestions?

can i safely keep with 20 gal a day water changes daily on a 120g tank until it clears up?

nrosdal
11-06-2009, 02:04 PM
here are a few pist of my ats/sump setup.


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/sheetmetal/IMG00028.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/sheetmetal/IMG00022.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/sheetmetal/IMG00020.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/sheetmetal/IMG00017.jpg

SantaMonica
11-06-2009, 06:25 PM
Something must have died in the tank.

Scrubber-wise: Post pics of the flow off the bottom.

Light are on 18 hours?

nrosdal
11-06-2009, 08:02 PM
cant see anything major missing all it coulda bee is a snail/crab that may have died. i just cant imagine something that small causing that kind of spike.(but what do i know) :?:

i had the timer for my atinics running the scrubber so it was on 14hrs and i just switched it to its own timer today so it can be on for 18. my flow over the scrubber if very good... i will post pics/vid in a little while.

added some clearmax and did another water change and we'll see how much things improve with the extra 4 hours of light for the scrubber.

nrosdal
11-07-2009, 06:58 PM
pic/vid of water flow off screen

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/sheetmetal/IMG00052.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/sheetmetal/th_VID00002.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/sheetmetal/?action=view&current=VID00002.flv)

SantaMonica
11-07-2009, 08:04 PM
You are removing the screen and cleaning it in the sink? No algae is falling into the water? Do you use a tooth brush to clean out the slot?

nrosdal
11-07-2009, 08:32 PM
ya, cleaning it in the sink with scraper and toothbrush for slot. all i can think of is that i added a bunch of snails and a lawnmower blenny a like 4 days before. they are putting a pretty big dent in my hair alge... i dont think their waste would make a big jump like this.. unless it is everything that they are stirring up as they are eating... but then again, i have been blowing off all LR with a powerhead every few days for the last few weeks so there isn't all that much for then to stir up unless it is on the undersides of the rock.

SantaMonica
11-07-2009, 08:45 PM
There you go... of course that's it. They are converting all the ALIVE algae that is living on the rocks to DEAD and decaying waste.

schnitm
11-10-2009, 07:22 AM
I think SM's right.

I have a related experience. The scrubber I have in my BioCube 14 is too small. Only about 10 square inches and lit on one side. Generally keeps phosphates undetectable and nitrates just barely there. The hair algae has been holding it's own.

Added some snails thinking they's clean it up including a few nesarius which have been happily digging around in the sand.

Did the algae get cleaned up? Just the opposite. While patches of algae are clearing up, the rest is growing faster than ever and getting long. I'd say my total algae mass has doubled or more. Last night I tested and got nitrates higher than usual at say 2.0. Also, seeing a hint of blue in the phosphate test. That's not usual. The snails are returning nutrients to the water faster than the screen can clean them out.

I know, I need a bigger screen. Just don't know where to put it. Thinking about the toolbox design.

nrosdal
11-10-2009, 04:25 PM
the snails are chowing down on the algae, and not messing in the sand too badly... i am amazed at how much those little buggers are eating and how fast they are doing it. i went from a full carpet of 1/2 inch HA to just a few patches in a week(ish). i would imagine that i will only have to deal with this issue for another week or so until the majority is gone and my nutrient levels can go back to normal.

but until that time is my only option to keep doing large daily water changes? it is what i have been doing and is not even touching the nitrates but it is keeping the phos low and i am not having any new algae grow in.

SantaMonica
11-11-2009, 10:27 AM
Toss in a few poly filters.

nrosdal
11-11-2009, 02:47 PM
Toss in a few poly filters.


like a sponge or floss??

SantaMonica
11-11-2009, 11:08 PM
No.. the polyfilter absorbers. Every store has them.

nrosdal
11-13-2009, 09:20 AM
green is almost all gone and nitrates are back in check!! will post pics soon