why is my ats not killing the algae in the tank?

[ocean rock]

as stated in start of thread

[SantaMonica]

Generally, because:

Not cleaning screen every 7 days
Lights not strong enough
Flow not strong enough
Screen too smooth
Screen not double layers

In your case, did you ever put reflectors on the outsides of the lights? If not, you only have 23W on those sides, per screen. And the middle screen only has 23W per screen.

[ocean rock]

screen is cleaned every seven days with out fail religiously on every Sunday ,there's two 28w bulbs giving 56w 1 1/2 inches away from screen , the flow is very good over recommended turn of 35 g per inch , screen was roughed up with a holesaw removed lots of plastic , screen is double layered , so that's why iam at a loss because every thing is right , and i have hydroponics diamond reflecting material behind all the sump tank .
the lights go off for 8 hrs every night should i alter this ?

[SantaMonica]

Off for 6 hours.

Post pics of the algae in your tank.

[ocean rock]

will post pic and alter timer on lights cheers sm

heres a few pics
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/recoilphotos/picsnov09050.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/recoilphotos/picsnov09051.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/recoilphotos/picsnov09053.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/recoilphotos/picsnov09054.jpg
full tank shot
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/recoilphotos/picsnov09059.jpg
and the left hand pane of glass
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/recoilphotos/picsnov09057.jpg

[Rawr]

I think this might be part of it. the green algae on the glass I'm assuming will slowly disappear as well. And if you clean it it should grow back much slower until eventually the screen wins completely.

Q: My scrubber has gotten rid of my green and brown nuisance algae in my display, but the dark purple cyano remains. Will it go away too?
A: Cyano is the last of the things to go away, because it can make its own nitrogen and thus does not need ammonia/nitrate/nitrate to do it. So it may last a while, but if you keep nutrients low enough for long enough, it too will fade. However, it may be overpowered by coralline before this happens.

[SantaMonica]

Is it on your rocks too, or just the sand?

Is it cyano on the sand?

[ocean rock]

its also on the rocks and it looks to me like hair algae as it has longs strands, its even on a few of my snails

[SantaMonica]

After looking at your pics from the beginning to now, it appears your algae/cyano has gotten worse. Also, you have a xenia still alive, which it shouldn't be UNLESS you are feeding a lot. Also also, your nuisance algae is all over, not just on the rocks, and lastly, I've not seen any pictures of good scrubber growth yet.

This all tells me that you are having trouble kick-starting the scrubber due to high nutrients (I'll do a separate write-up about this later) compared to the small area of the screen. Once you get past the kick-start phase, you should have thick green growth... one inch thick on EACH side of the screen. That's when your scrubber is working at full power. Until a scrubber gets to the green stage, it's not operating at full power. (This is the danger of screens that are too small, compared to the amount of feeding.)

So to fix things, start by feeding HALF of what you feed now. Start looking for signs of green growth after a week or two. Post pics of the water flow off the bottom of the screen. In your case, you can't increase your lights or flow or screen size, so we are going to have to start with looking at the feeding. Once your screen is full of green, you can slowly go back to feeding more.

[ocean rock]

hi SM iam feeding two blocks of frozen Athena " brine shrimp " twice a day and the sun corals feed with mysis once a day , the tanks getting striped down in a few weeks time and the stand is going to be built higher , so i can change the sump tank and the lighting , this is the way i want to filter my tank so iam open to suggestion , and any help will be much appreciated , i will have 2ft of usable room under the tank so i might rethink it ,

[kcress]

Why are 'too much nutrients' a problem with getting a screen going?

[SantaMonica]

I'm doing a write up on it now... Im just now understanding it myself.

[kcress]

Good, because that has to be my problem with my mondo nitrates. I never get anything vaugley reminisant of hair algae on my screens.

You should see what I have now... It's like a zoo. (and No hair)

[johnrt]

Hi all:

When I look at the photos, I do not see any Green Hair Algae in the tank either. If the water chemistry if 'off' enough, it may not favor green hair algae and consequently may not grow on the screen. As SM has mentioned several times there is a succession of document alga that grow on a new screen.

Now the interesting thing is that the major algae in this tank is in low flow, low light areas (bottom of the tank) and not conspicuous on the upper rock, but the screen is a high flow, high light environment. It may take time for the screen to establish a high flow / light flora.

There may also be both high nutrients and unbalanced nutrients. All algae need nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous major nutrients to grow and a large number of trace elements. In a nutrient rich tank, the trace elements will not be limiting but one or more of the major nutrients may be. Each species of algae will have different optimum nutrient ratios which allows it to become dominant in any flow / light environment. As this algae grows, it tends to shift the tanks nutrient levels which eventually allows a different species to take over - hence succession.

Time may be the safest way to kick-start a new screen in a rich environment. Just know that whatever grows on the screen is removing something from the water and anything you clean off the screen is gone from the tank. Simple. The system will move towards low, balanced, dissolved nutrient state with higher organic nutrients (food). But if we knew what green hair algae needed, we might be able to - gasp - intentionally, dose with the low nutrients to shift the balance. [Not likely to be a popular idea John. Back out discreetly.]

Just some untested, theoretical thoughts.

John T
(. . .He bravely turned away and fled. . .

[ocean rock]

thanks for that , i have also removed the old light units and replaced them with 4 30 watt equvalent to 150 watt 1900 lumen bulbs thats giving me a total off 600 watts and 5600 lumens will this be better or worse ,

[SantaMonica]

Are all the lights shining directly on the screens? Or are the outside ones shining away?

[schnitm]

Related to this thread, my screen finally turned all green after I "artificailly" droped my phosphates to undetectable with GFO. It had substantial areas of what I can only describe as RHA (red hair algae). Over the past week it all changed to green.

I to have seen all sorts of things other than GHA on the screen. An evolving population as the nutrient levels fell.

[ocean rock]

heres a pic off new lights in sump .
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/recoilphotos/sump231109011.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/recoilphotos/sump231109013.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/recoilphotos/sump231109010.jpg

hope these help .

[SantaMonica]

Wattage?

[ocean rock]

30 watts each equivalent to 150 watts there 1900 lumen's , and there's 4 as at the mo i just have one screen running

[Spuds725]

IMO you are feeding way too much--

I would try the kill tank lights method to get rid of the cyano-- turn off the lights for 3 days-- when you bring them up reduce your photo period to at least 1/2 of what it was before and increase about an hour every other day to allow the coral to acclimate again.

The kill light method worked for me and cyano... you may have to repeat it again in about 3 or 4 weeks if it comes back-- I've known several people this has worked for-- my 2nd outbreak was not as bad as the first-- it did not return after the 2nd outbreak.

Obviously don't kill the lights on the ATS...

[kcress]

johnrt; Your synopsis sounds right on to me. I have seen countless evolutions in the last 20 years. Things completely take over and then a few months later are gone forever.

It could be my 30lbs of dark green HA have got one of the nutrients cornered and only the strange things that can operate in that nutrient arena but with bright light are free to grow on my screen at this time.

[ocean rock]

can someone tell me if i have the lighting right , thanks

[SantaMonica]

Should be plenty of light.

Here is my explanation of kick-starting:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=397 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=397)

[ocean rock]

hi sm i just get this from the link
You are not authorised to access this area.

[ocean rock]

hi spud if iam turning the lights of for three days can i still have the t8 marine blues on ?

[kcress]

hi spud if iam turning the lights of for three days can i still have the t8 marine blues on ?

Blue grows algae too if you're trying to kill algae by light starvation. I'd cut them back if you could.



SM; You have that link in a non-accessible location. :(

[SantaMonica]

Try here
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=397 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=397)

[ocean rock]

thanks SM read though that and it made a lot of sense , so my next question is , how much should i feed i have a sun coral that needs to be feed , a copper band that will only eat athnema , a pair of mandarins and a coupler of blennies , i do not want to starve my live stock so i am open to suggestion's .

[kcress]

I too thank you for that FAQ.

Interesting concept. Certainly fits with what I'm experiencing.

I wonder if the light green algae is just the dark green algae that is on the verge of starving. If more nutrient (excessive) is available maybe the algae can store it as pigments or (?) and this turns it dark. This would fit with the hair algae that is growing in a display. Lots of nutrient available so it gets dark.

[SantaMonica]

Just cut the feeding in half, until you get green, then you can slowly increase.

I think the green algae is it's own species; when it starves it turns brown and lets go, and is replaced by coralline.

[ocean rock]

ok i now have the lights on the display tank blue 4 m/h 2 hours aday , feeding cut to two blocks of frozen aday , i will let you no how i get on thanks for all the help

[SantaMonica]

Keep in mind that less lights in the display will cause the nuisance algae to die there, and will put more nutrients in the water, which will overload the scrubber even more. So while light-out will indeed clear the display and allow more coralline in the short term, it may prevent the scrubber from going green, which in the long term (when the display lights are back on) may cause even more display algae.

You really want everything you do to reduce nutrients in the water, so the scrubber can catch up and grow green. Once it's green, you can play around more.

[ocean rock]

what should i do put the lights back on to 8 hrs a day and hope the scrubber can catch up , iam not sure now what to do , ive checked the scrubber today and its getting a covering of reddy brown algae on it , i will clean sunday and post pics of before and after ? cheers

[SantaMonica]

I would do the standard nutrient removals that I wrote about.