New Member, New Tank, New ATS, Old Reefer. ;)

[Eric]

Hello fellow addicts!
My name is Eric, I have been in the hobby for years but have been out of it for the past 5 or 6 years.

This is an off topic on topic post so I guess this is the correct place for it. Anyways my current set up in progress is a 65 gallon hex reef ready or at least it has been made that way. The tank has 2x1" drains I will use one for the sump and the other for a closed loop. I have a single 250watt DE halide pendant for lighting and I am working on an ATS filter.

Ok now we get back on topic, I am building my ats using a wet dry sump I had lying around, the dimensions are 24"x8 1/4"x 14" the scrubber section is 16"x8 1/4"x 14" L,W,H here are a few pics of my progress so far.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMTguanBn.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMTkuanBn.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BL01lZGlhIENhcmQvQmxhY2tCZX-21.jpg

I have it layed out for the most part, the scrubber screen will be 8"x8" double sided making it 96 square inches, I am using a 500gph pump to power the scrubber, the lights will be 2x23w of cfl floods giving me roughly 3 wpg equivalent. I drilled the side of the sump so I can mount the lights an inch away from the screen and dead center, the bulbs will have to be installed from inside the sump but the sockets will be mounted outside. The return pump to the tank will be a 500gph pump as well and it will be mounted external. I have to drilled for the bulkhead but that is easy enough to do. After the head pressure I will have about 400 gph running through the tank, that will turn it over about 5 times and hour. The closed loop will take care of flow in the tank so I am not trying to get the most gph through my sump.

Well that is my run for this evening, any advice, suggestion, or thoughts are welcome.

Eric

[SantaMonica]

Nice first build. A few things:

Your screen will be 64 sq in, which should be fine. 66 total watts is too. 500 gph over a 8" wide is super; will probably have to throttle it a bit or it will blow all the algae away (make sure your screen is double-layered, and SUPER roughed up like a cactus.)

I see a potential problem in placeing the bulbs 1" from the screen. CFL spotlights already have a disadvantage compared to t5's, in that all the light is concentrated in the middle, so you are going to want to pull the lights back to about 4" away. To do this, you might get regular CFL spirals, and use a 90-degree turn on the inside of the acrylic wall, so that the bulbs stay near the wall instead of near the screen.

[Eric]

I screwed up the lights then, everything I read in your post said put the lights as close as possible preferable 1" away no more than 4" away and if you are 6" redesign it but I didn't read all the way through so there were probably changes in methods and equipment over the course of 39 pages, I probably missed a lot of good info but only having a cell phone to view the web makes it a little rough.

Anyways I notice you said use spiral lights and the part I read said only use floods, I can make it work.

I can back my floods away 4" fairly easy, as far as flow I will add a ball valve and coupling inline to control the flow and allow me to remove the screen and lid without taking the pump out. I am also going to make my screen 12"x8" as originally planned.

Questions ;) if I back the floods away 4" will it be ok? Should I go with a lower wattage floodlight? My screen double sided 8"x8" is only 64 square inch? I thought if it was lit on two sides it was double the square inch is this not correct? Let me make sure I have this 8"x8" is 64 one side and 8"x8" double sided is 128 square inch or is the 64" square inch double sided making a single sided lit screen 32 square inch? My screen will have a 23w flood on each side.

I am confused now lol :) it's a simple fix either way I can go 12"x8" to get a little extra if need be.

Eric

[SantaMonica]

Simple: Just back the floods away to 4". Larger screen in fine. Everything elset the same. "Size" is just 8 X 8 = 64.

Spend some time on the screen making it double layered and very rough:

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenHoleSaw.jpg

[Eric]

SOB ;) disregard last post I got it 8x8 one side lit 32 square inches.

I had it right in the beginning 12"x8" was 96 square inches and someone replied on FG and told me I have 192 square inches cause it needed to be doubled so I went to 8"x8" thinking I had 128 square inch rather than 64 square inches not sure where the 96" came from in my first post. Lol

Ok so I will use a 12"x8" double sided screen giving me 96 square inches, it will be double layered and lit on both sides.

I need 420gph of flow for a 12" wide screen so my 500gph pump will cover that about perfect with a few gph to spare.

I will use 2x23w clf floods placed 4" away from the screen.

How's the new plan sound?

Thanks
Eric

[Eric]

Alright here is a new picture.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BL01lZGlhIENhcmQvQmxhY2tCZX-22.jpg

I used a 12"x8" piece of a dog food bag to mock the screen, you can see what I have so far for the most part. I used a rotozip router for the first time and dam that's an experience. Lol not to mention a little messy in the kitchen ;) ol lady love it! I have my groove now and it seems to be the right width and fairly straight.

Well see how the screen works and possibly a test run tomorrow. I will probably test run before scuffing up the screen just to see if I need to re grove the pipe and save time there. Sounds like roughing the screen is the hardiest part of the whole build.

How much do you want for a 12"wide x8" tall double side screen shipped? I know $19.20 for the screen but not the shipping to 17225. Also I need the screen to be longer but not roughed up I think I saw that you don't charge for the excess length is that correct? I would need 4" on the height so 12"x12" over all.

I might let you have that headache. ;) do I get a turkey day discount or do you charge more for bothering you? :)

Santamonica I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions and guide me to a properly working unit.

Thanks
Eric G

[Eric]

Do the 23w cfl floods get hot enough to melt acrylic? Just curious if not it gives me a few more options.

Eric G

[ChrisD]

Shouldn't get hot enough to melt the acrylic. If you're thinking of mounting the spots outside the acrylic enclosure you should be fine (but will lose about 3-5% of light depending on the acrylic - probably not an issue). Acrylic softens at about 150oC for moulding and at 80oC can start to lose pre-formed shapes. You really shouldn't be close to these temps and could always put a fan to cool the surface if you are worried.

[tanan]

Hi eric
nice to see you here and sorry for the trouble I caused(I was the guy who told you that 12 x 8 is 96 and if lited from both side it will double the surface area).I m extremely sorry for that and I still dont know how the heck that is wrong.
Anyways Thats why I was telling you to post your questions here so you wont get some wrong advice .

[SantaMonica]

No problem Eric... always fun helping out folks.

If your screen in 12" wide, I'd back the lights out even farther.. 5 or 6". A 12" wide screen is almost too wide for a single 23W bulb (14" definitely is), because you get all the light in the middle (and get burnt yellow-rubber algae when the light is too close), and none on the edges (and end up with cyano). Even distribution of light is what works best; so just back the light out a bit further and you'll get more even lighting.

I see that your temporary screen is narrower at the top; you don't want to do this since the wider area at the bottom will get no flow (you don't want any no-flow areas). So, you want to measure your screen at the narrow part only, and have that be the distance all the way down.

As for a screen, I now have some already made up. You are correct, there is no charge for the smooth areas. I'm doing $10 packing and shipping to anywhere in the US.

[Eric]

Tanan
Now worries, it really didn't effect my build just confused me for a moment. I really wish I had a pc the internet by phone is great but not when you are trying to read so much info, it gets a hard on the eyes after a while.

That mock screen is just something the cut out for the pic, my screen will be rectangle. The lights 5" away although I will need to cut the holes a little bigger.

Well I think I have it figured out now. I will keep posting progress till it's finished.

Oh should I consider using an 18w flood rather than the 23w?

Thanks
Eric G

[Eric]

You mentioned using T5s is that Ho or just normal T5s, I cannot fit T5ho but I can fit normal T5s since they come in 12" bulbs.

Thanks
Eric

[SantaMonica]

Just keep it simple... 23 W flood.

[Eric]

Sounds good!

Since I will be trying this as my only filtration just want to make it work as efficient as possible. I will add carbon, skimmer, ect as needed but I want to give this set up a legit chance before I add other equipment.

Eric

[Eric]

Almost done, here are a few pics.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMjcuanBn.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMjkuanBn.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BL01lZGlhIENhcmQvQmxhY2tCZX-23.jpg

Ok first pic shows the final plumbing cupling and valve in place. Second is the light fixture in place. The fixture is only pvc and completely adjustable, when I get the lights I will finish it and paint it all black, I will use dowl pins to keep the pipe in place rather than glue that way if I need to change it later I can just move it or add different lengths of pvc.

Thoughts?

is it possible to use an 15w or 18w bulb? It would fit better and save a lot of space vs the 23w, the size difference is quite a bit between the two bulbs. I would have over 1watt per gallon with a 15w or 18w bulb.

Thanks
Eric

[Eric]

Here are a few more pics of both fixtures installed, the last two show a little of the versitlity. I just tossed those bulbs in for effect.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BL01lZGlhIENhcmQvQmxhY2tCZX-24.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMzEuanBn.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BL01lZGlhIENhcmQvQmxhY2tCZX-25.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMzMuanBn.jpg

It's getting there!

Eric

[kcress]

Just making sure.. You are really using CFL lamps correct?

[Eric]

Yes I am :) I just tossed these in cause I didn't buy the bulbs today. Here are pictures of the test lights in action.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMzUuanBn.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p184/Eparr1_photos/utf-8BL01lZGlhIENhcmQvQmxhY2tCZX-26.jpg

I am seriously considering 2x15w 3500k CFL floods that would give me 100w equivalent that would be 1.6wpg, I hate to be hard headed but it would slim the design so much and no one has said why I can't use the lower wattage bulbs seems the 23w will cook my algae.

Lol so what do you think?

Thanks
Eric

[kcress]

You want to ditch a BUNCH of thickness use something like these!
http://imghost.indiamart.com/data/X/R/MY-1073806/pl-2-pin_250x250.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Watts are real watts, not equivalent. you need the 23w X 2.

Also, how married are you to this sump? I did not realize you would have to build a contraption in order to hold the lights. If you have plenty of room, it's fine, but another option would be to turn the whole screen 90 degrees so that it goes across the sump instead of inline with the sump. Then you'd use clamp-on light sockets like a lot of people use and angle the bulbs down towards the middle of the screen. Simple and cheap.

Of course, it might just be easier to keep what you have built.

Also, paint it white instead of black... will allow more light to bounce around inside. Mine actually uses mirrored acrylic.

[Eric]

Got it!

I have plenty of room stand for tank is 34"x24"x34" L,W,H I was just trying to avoid running those huge bulbs. That fixture I made can be moved to any configuration, the reason I did it like that is I don't really have a place to hook a clamp light and this is guaranteed not to slip off or move. The pvc is not glued so I can always move it if needed.

Guess I have to get used to the 2x23w I tried to fight it ;) the sump is only 8" wide outer diameter so turning the screen wouldn't give me the width I want for my screen.

The good thing is nothing on this sump is set in stone and I can change pretty much anything.

[consigliere]

that bulb setup looks like a fire hazard waiting to happen....I would go with some form of compact flo...and keep it away from the acylic...