LED lighting

[KansasNative]

:idea: Has anyone tried LED lighting in lieu of compact florescents or HID ? :?:

I see you can get a 225 LED setup (12" x12") for around $45, red and blue for plant growth.

[ChrisD]

Kansas

KCress is your man. i asked a similar question a little while back on the design forum. Here's the link.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=378 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=378)

Chris

[KansasNative]

Chris,

I just ordered two LED light panels, one red/blue and the other all white. :shock:

Will be some time before I can use them on my current ATS build.
But I will post results. :D

I am also considering using the all white in lieu of my 175 watt meatl halides on my 200 gal
freshwater tank. I like MH but to expensive and to much heat. :evil:

[drhyne]

Have you had any luck with this? I am currently looking at the 50w White-Blue panels for my display tank. I figure they will pay for themselves in 4 months.

[SantaMonica]

Remember that LED's are for experimenting only, not for results.

[drhyne]

Eventually someone has to test this stuff so that we can move forward! When I get my taxes back I am gonna drop the cash on the display tank LED's. I am tired of my electric bill being high and the heat issues. The glass in front of my halide runs about 400 degrees ALL THE TIME! It's also alot of electric for not much usable light. I may just go ahead and get 2 more of the 50w quad band grow LEDs for giggles. It has to be better then changing bulbs every 3-4 months!

I should just move to St. John. It would be cheaper!

D_.

[rainerfeyer]

kansanative,

can you please list a link for this light?
===
I see you can get a 225 LED setup (12" x12") for around $45
===

Thanks

Rainer

[inkidu]

Can someone experiment with this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/100W-Warm-White-Hig ... 642wt_1165 (http://cgi.ebay.com/100W-Warm-White-High-Power-6000LM-LED-Light-AC-Driver_W0QQitemZ320477186867QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9dedcb33#ht_1642wt_1165 )

There is also a 50 watt version for $73

I bought a 10 watt 260 lumen red for $15 from the same seller.

I will post with results once I receive the led

I am going to team it up with a 10 watt warm from another seller.

$23 warm white + $15 red + $14 led driver = $52

I am hoping I get over 700 lumen

Leds on a budget

[rygh]

Two notes.
1) First, I am experimenting with LEDs now myself. DIY.
See my thread in Designs/Modern LEDs.

2) Beware of cheap current drivers.
A) They fail.
- I bought some cheap ones to replace other lights once.
- The power supply in the driver failed after a few months.
- And it was used far less than on an ATS.
b) They do not regulate well.
- It is key to get the correct current, or you lose light/blow your LED.
- From other forums I have seen, some of the cheap drivers are way off. 20%.

3) Beware of things with no detailed specs.
What is the spectrum? It is cheaper to build in cooler colors. You need very warm white for ATS.
What is the expected lifetime? Not all LEDs are 50,000 hours.
And how is it sorted? Different silicon batches can produce very different results. Like 3X.

4) The really high wattage LEDs are a pain for thermal reasons.
The problem is, you get a very small point that generates a lot of heat.
And LEDs lose performance / fail when hot. Touching it should be warm, but easily bearable.
So building a good heat sink, especially without a fan, can be very tricky.

I avoided those in my build. Of course, cost more. Maybe I wasted my money.

[inkidu]

Thanks for the info

Points well taken I have read other posts that the driver is the first thing to go.

I bought 4 mean well lplc-18-700 and I am using those for my builds for now and they seem to be good quality so far.

I am looking at the new mean well CEN-100-30 seems like it would fit perfectly for (1) 100 watt led. That driver has been announced but is not for sale as far as I know yet. It does seem to have some impressive specs

http://www.meanwell.com/search/CEN-100/CEN-100-spec.pdf

I been looking through ebay and have my eye on some very big heat sinks because I would like if possible to not use a fan.

I also noticed besides the lack of detail specs that there are no returns but I have seen what they want for these kind of leds and they are not cheap. So I decided to take a gamble for some of the smaller ones (if you can call 10 watt led small) first.



Hopefully it is because they are so new and they are coming direct from the warehouse and not so much about the being poorly binned. If the specs are right they are on par with lumen / watt with some more common high end leds

I was thinking of taken some of my projects to a camera or lighting store and getting some real #"s for light output etc... and that way I will feel more confident about future purchases. Has anyone tried that? How would you test for different specs (distance from light etc...)? Is there a test for color temp that would be readily available?

Sharp just came out with a new line of 6.7 watt leds the one I was looking at (GW5BTF
27K00 ) is 2700 k and puts out 355 lumens but they also are not on the market quite yet.

I mention the bigger leds because when I read kansasnative"s original post he/she seems to be talking about those small 5mm leds
The way I look at it 5mm leds are being replace by 1 watt leds which are being replaced by 3 watt leds which will be replaced by higher watt leds. Its just a matter of how to correctly use them. So any help would be appreciated to help see the quickly changing light of leds.

[KansasNative]

Ordered and received the LED panels as in my first post.
They support a 200 gallon freshjwater tank.

The results are excellant. Nice green algae is growing profusly
on bothsides of the substrate. :)

LEDs use less eclectricity, thay are cool to the touch. NO issues. :D

Try them you will like them. I do not sell them and am not associtaed with
any vendor that does. :!:

[rainerfeyer]

Soooo,

where did you get them? Could you supply a link please?

Thanks

Rainer

[whites]

Check this thread out we are having amazing results with these units in oz!!!!!!

looking forward to your experiment with the coloured bulbs please post results soon, I cant wait to see what happens....

http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=209183

[KansasNative]

check out: www.ledwholesalers.com (http://www.ledwholesalers.com) and click pn LED Grow lights

225 LED panel for around 40-50 dollars. Seesm as white works just a little better then the red
and blue panel.

Hope this helps. :D

[rainerfeyer]

Thank you, KansasNative :)

Rainer

[KansasNative]

I just set up my 200 gallon fresh water tank about a couple of months ago.
I have one very small fish, just so bacteria can grow. I am waitinng for spring to collect native fish.

Algae scrubber screens are covered with algae and with only one fish in a 200 :!: I checked nitrate level, it is zero.
The algae must be eating something. :?: Only add a minisculre amount of fish food daily.

Well LEDs are working just fine. Cool cheap light.

[SantaMonica]

Good that it's working now, but remember the test for a scrubber is in a loaded tank. A screen should be able to grow one inch thick GHA, on each side of the screen, in 7 days. So your 200, when loaded, should be able to grow about one pound of (wet) algae every 7 days. Enough to fill a pint jar (1/2 quart)

[KansasNative]

I am sure if it will grow in an unloaded tank it will grow better in a loaded tank. :D

[kcress]

Desperately want a picture...

[KansasNative]

Here are some pictures. This LED system is on a 200 gallon freshwater tank. There are two (2) LED panels, one front with Red/Blue (the side pictured) and the other panel is all white LEDs. The raw water input is located at top, flows down the mesh and collects in a 10 gallon tank. The water then exits through a bottom drilled hole and into a 30 gallon sump, here it gets pumped back to the 200 gallon tank (enroute it passes through a particulate filter, charcoal and UV system).

Is this enough detail ? I know the pictures are bright. If not good enough let me know and I will try again.

Hope this helps.[attachment=0:250a1uvj]Algae Scrubber Red Blue LED side.JPG[/attachment:250a1uvj][attachment=1:250a1uvj]Algae Scrubber backside red blue LED.JPG[/attachment:250a1uvj][attachment=2:250a1uvj]Algae Scrubber LED 200 gal.JPG[/attachment:250a1uvj]

[kcress]

Cool! Thanks for the pics!

[whites]

Any chance you could post a photo of the screen only with 7days growth please?

I know this isnt led but I came across this what do you think? I only have a small space. I have spoken the rep of company and he says that it is the equivlent of a 90w led grow light.
http://mland.en.alibaba.com/product/284 ... light.html (http://mland.en.alibaba.com/product/284742143-209414577/MINI_UFO_grow_light.html)

Do you think the red/blue is better than the white only or is there a little bit of reflection happening between the two sides?

[rygh]

Interesting product. (A bit of info added for others):

Basically, that is "induction lighting". Like fluorescent, but instead of electrodes, it uses magnetic coils.
The key win for those: Lasts 5-10 times longer, but only costs 2-3 times as much.
A good tradeoff for ATS usage, since they are replaced a lot.

BUT: The phosphors and such are basically the same as CFL, and I have not seen reliable news advertising
particularly higher efficiency. So I am highly skeptical of the claim that this 50W light is the same as a 90W LED.

Note that CCFL (cold cathode) is also a longer life bulb technology.

[KansasNative]

Pictures of my tank. Very few fish for now. There is some green algae here, which is desirable as the fish consume it as part of thier natural food source.[attachment=1:1ebczr0u]Feb 02 2010 3.JPG[/attachment:1ebczr0u][attachment=0:1ebczr0u]Feb 2 2101 6.JPG[/attachment:1ebczr0u]

[kcress]

Nice clean look to your tank.

Now you just need a school of a hundred Neon Tetras. :D

[whites]

Hey kansas

How are the screens going? Im still tossing up the Idea of red blue. Can you post some results/pics after the last week of growth still having better luck with the all white?

Were both panels the same wattage? and what were they 15w? Im looking at a 45w red blue panel more expensive but should last for ages..

Thanks for all the past pics too, your build looks good.

[KansasNative]

Kcress - I would like 100 Neons but this is a hard wtaer tank (30 grains hardness) the wtaer here is similar to Malawi or Tanganikya. I have a an Amazon biotope with tetras, the water is very soft in a 70 gallon tank.

Thanks for the positive comments. :D

[michalm]

Hi,

How is going ? How is algae growing ? how nitrate ?

Thank you

Mike

[KansasNative]

Algae is growing good. Cleaned screens, lots in between screens (3 layers). Asked the LED vendor about best color,
he stated blue. So I am going to change out my Red/Blue panel for an all Blue one. Then will wait and watch.

Nitrate is zero, mostly because of low biomass. Got more fish, but still low mass.
I might consider CO2 bubbled into source water. I have an old diver tank I have used for CO2 on another tank. See my post about a professional algae grower. :D

Have you done a web search for algae growers ? Many growers out there for biodiesel and human food (spirulina, algae). :mrgreen:

LED prices are coming down. My 225 component 13 watt LED panel is only $ 42.
:o You can get a 55 watt panel for $115, these are .5 watt LEDs.

[whites]

interesting about the light colour as one of your post suggests that the white panel seemed to have better growth. Is this stiil the case? do you think your wattage is enough could you use more, say 25W??

This thread has some intersting things in it re what algea need in light if you havent already seen it.........viewtopic.php?f=3&t=435 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=435)

[KansasNative]

I thought the white was better, at first.
Guess I was wrong. Second time in my life, I was wrong about a covert mission back in 1986.

Do not know if blue will be better, will have to wait. I just ordered blue panel yesterday.

I don't know about more wattage, I place the panel only about 1.5 inch from screen. It appears to work OK.
I did read on a University of Texas website that to much light can cause photo aversion, whatever that is,
but doesn't sound good. I would like to try a 55w panel, maybe later though.

Happy scrubbibg to you all. :mrgreen:

[Rossco]

Just an experiment.
http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss357/rosscopeco/PC200093.jpg
This sucker spilling a small amount of light over my weir during the day has created the picture below in two weeks.


http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss357/rosscopeco/P2130142.jpg
The light is a cheapy chinese 120w w:b:p 1w led. It works as far as I can tell.

[KansasNative]

Rossco, what size is panel ? x ? How many LEDs ? Total wattage ?

The LEDs are 1 watt LEDs ?? Thanks for the info. :mrgreen:

[Rossco]

I'll get the tape out later for the dimension. Roughly 8x16inches or 200x400mm. It is a 120w unit with 1w leds.
http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 9&t=209183 (http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=209183)
If you have a read you will learn all there is to know about the light and what it is like dealing with a supplier in china.

[KansasNative]

My panel of 225 LEDs only cost $42.00, but of course they are not 1 watters. They also do not require fans or controllers.
I only use mine for the ATS and not my tank. They also have 12" x 12" panel of LEDS that are .5 watt for $115.

I would hate to spend $600.00 for two, for an ATS light source.

Just my 2 cents.

[Rossco]

I think you misread my post. This light is for my corals. It also runs the small experimental scrubber in my weir with a smal amount of wasted light.
I was just trying to show that the colour was quite capable of growing algae

[KansasNative]

My bad.

[regie]

I tried to use led light before and I can attest that it is better than the other light bulbs. It consumes less electrical power. For now, I don’t want to try HID light bulb because it consumes much electricity though it is the brightest.