Rev2 Horizontal build

[rygh]

So the next generation build is in progress.
I was going to wait to post after it was done, but wanted to see if there was some advice, especially on riffles.

It is a semi-horizontal. Screen area is 6.5" x 32". I expect about 300 GPH, so 45 GPH/inch width.
I chose a horizontal because I am really optimizing for low electricity cost.
Thus, using the sump return, instead of a big extra pump, is key.
Plus, I was severely limited on vertical height.

It has about a 10" rise. The picture is accurate on slope.
I built a wood box, painted it white for reflecting all the light, then lined it with thin acrylic.
Bottom is 1/8" acrylic, sides are 1/4"
A pretty cheap way to build, plus has good strength.
To glue the acrylic to the painted wood, I just put down a bit more paint, and dropped the acrylic on while wet.
Took a while to dry, but sticks great.

There are three mesh screen sections, to make cleaning really easy.

Top will be small diamond grid diffusion plate. It will be pretty much sealed.
Lighting will eventually be LED, but a mixture of CFL/LED for a while, until I manage to get LED working.
(LED is always a bit problematic)

One interesting new feature I am toying with is "riffles".
Since it looks a lot like an old sluce box (for getting gold), it inspired me to think about the riffles they used.
Basically, they were short horizontal ridges, to add rapid-like turbulence.
And in fact, it can create interesting vorticies in the water flow.
A piece of lighting grate worked perfect. So I am trying that.

Pics following.

[rygh]

Picture of main box. At final slope.

[rygh]

Picture of riffle idea.
A bit hard to see, but the bumpiness of the water is pretty visible.
Interestingly, it really helped to spread the water fairly evenly across the width.
I am hoping that algae will grow in the small squares, and until it fills them, should not cause as much channeling.
However, I worry that the squares are really too small.
The grid is not attached to the screen. If it was, it would be impossible to clean.

[rygh]

A quick test setup.
The very nice algae in a few spots is unfortunately from SF bay, not real growth.
But I can confirm a bit of yellow, and extension of the seeded algae in just 3 days, so it does work.
I need to finish top and lighting before full scale testing.
One big problem I had was the mesh screens floating up. I am gluing a piece of acrylic to the bottom. Hopefully will work.
Although the riffle concept fixes it as well, since the grid holds down the mesh.

[kcress]

That is a nice idea. Over flow out of one end of the tank, let the water slide to the other end of the sump. Nice.

Make it so a single 3 or 4 foot fluorescent tube runs down the middle and you'd have some nice efficiency.


I doubt the riffles will help as much as they hinder but I await your testing.

[rygh]

I even have an old coralife CF 48" fixture, from when I upgraded my main tank. I could buy some warm white bulbs.
But it is about 4" too long. Hack saw time maybe.
But what I really want is CFL on only half or so, so I can experiment with LED on the other part.

[inkidu]

The scrubber I have, had originally plexi baffles (i lost them) that held down the screen.

There #226 They have slots to encourage different flows. They are also loose in order that

they might shift and channel the water in different directions. Subtle but they worked.

They also where positioned in such a way that the channeled water hit a corresponding bump

in the base of the tray. ( creating turbulence )

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5536398.pdf

Also take notice of where the water exists. There is a type of gate that lets water

go over the top and underneath.

Don' t quite know how you can diy it, but in the dip at the end of mine I use sheet filter floss,

like you can buy for making a quilt (cheap), to collect stray algae that flows off of the screen.

My water has been clearer ever since I added the floss and it is easy to replace.

Also use a piece of plastic, from a blow gun paint ball magazine, that swirls the water exiting

the pipe. Near crystal clear silent laminar flow.

Hope this helps. Wish my camera wasn't broken.

[rygh]

Interesting design.
The grids are UNDER the algae screen, to allow for more pod/plankton production.
I think that design would only work with a truly horizontal unit, with higher walls than I built.

It creates turbulence, yes, but not like the rapid flowing water I was planning. And far below a vertical unit.
On the other hand, it should have TONS of surface area and volume. So you get more algae, that grows slower.

It seems pretty easy to DIY to me. The grids are simply lighting grids, and the little plexi baffles look pretty
easy to cut and glue. Hmm.

If you put a truly horizontal unit inside the sump at water level, you could even use a propeller-powerhead
to drive it. Super flow, for very low wattage.

[rygh]

Ok, there was a bit of a holdup while I finished my new sump. But finally done.

BTW: For those saving energy on LEDs, don't forget INSULATION on your sumps, pipes, and tanks as possible.
Nothing like spending time and money on LEDs, and ignoring that 200W heater running next to them.
Sump is 1/16 acrylic / epoxy / wood / insulation / wood.

Finally done and installed.
Pictures to follow.

[rygh]

Final test on new sump, before installation.
Correct angle.

[rygh]

Installed and running.
Note 1/2 LED, and 1/2 CFL. All scientific like!
Well, except the LED was off my test system, so a bit small.
New LEDs on order.

[rygh]

Growth after 3 days, on LED side.
I am a bit surprised to see only green clumps. I expected more yellow.
Finger is shown to show depth. Still hard to see though. Flow is pretty fast. Hard to see in picture.
About 1/8" deep, smooth, even. Of course, we shall see what happens when clumps of algae show up.
The CFL side is only 1 day, so nothing there yet.

[sklywag]

How's this coming along? I just started my Horizontal build. Very simular to yours. Infact. I think I stole your idea. But I'm lacking the good idea of the collection box before hitting the scrubber. Bet that keeps noise down and disperses the water better too.

[rygh]

It is going fairly well.
Now that I am done with the main build, I have been focusing on the LED aspect.
So I posted results in that thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=435&start=140 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=435&start=140)
But I will enclose a quick re post pic of some scrapings, and the three screen plates.

I am working on getting the right lighting mixture.
It is growing this rather pale-green/yellow algae, instead of good hair. The expert says too much light,
so I am tweaking that now, along with a big change in LEDs.
Plus, it is a BIG screen for a tank that was already very low in nutrients, so I was expecting slower growth.

The flow seems quite good, growth is even, so overall semi-horizontal aspect of the design seems sound.
I think the long-thin approach helped on that as well. Since it is thinner, hard to have uneven flow across the screens.

Doing three screens was nice, since in theory I can clean a plate every 2 days. Although human nature being what it is, I will probably do
it every weekend like usual.

The collection box helps a lot, yes. Very little noise, although that was not really a design consideration.
But I am getting a lot more light than I would like in the collection box, so I am a bit worried about that.
Easy to clean, but still, not where I want things to grow.

I wish I had built the sides a bit higher. I can remove the screens while the pump is still running, but barely. Unfortunately, one slip,
and water build up and goes everywhere. Turning the pump off is no big deal though.

[sklywag]

So it doesn't sit inside a sump? I designed mine to fit inside my sump. My rails are only 2" high on the sides. I am sort of concerned water will be going over the side of it de to 600+gph going down the thing. But since it's in my sump I guess that doesn't matter. To clean I was thinking I'd take the whole thing out. Everything is smooth in my head but Actual application has yet to be done.
Nice to see yours is doing what you expected. Once you dial in your lights I'm sure it'll be great.

[rygh]

No, it sits on top of the sump.
See picture on previous page of this thread.
Pipes go from ATS through holes in top of sump lid.

I am not really recommending an external ATS.
But it worked for me.
It was hard to make my sump very long, due to pumps and other obstructions.

[rygh]

There is one big advantage of keeping it out of the sump - moisture.
Even if you eliminate splashing, there is a ton of moisture from simple evaporation.
With a hot CFL, probably less of a problem.
But with LEDs, I did see a bit of condensation on the heat sinks, before I sealed things up a bit.

[rygh]

I just want to state that using lighting diffusion grate, to create "riffles" was not a good idea.
(See page 1 of thread)
Tried it, and it slows down growth.

[sklywag]

I saw those in there. Did the opposite of what you would think huh?
Moisture is an under statement. Humidity seems very high inside my stand now. I hear fans in my future. Will be looking for the quietest ones I can afford. Or willing to buy.

[rygh]

The riffles had lots of turbulence, but it was at the top of the water, not down near the algae screen.
So basically ended up with still water on the screen.
* Looking at pictures in your post, your screen might be a problem. Looks more like those riffles than a normal screen.

I would suggest sealing things up instead of getting big fans.
You are going to get a TON of evaporation if you put in big fans.
That means adding water constantly, and an issue with keeping the water warm as evaporation cools it, and expect a ton of humidity in your room.

[rygh]

Just a quick update:
Up and running for a couple of months now. Works ok, but not what I would consider great.
No N/P of course, tank hair algae sickly and very slowly dying, but dang bubble algae still hanging on.
Corals love the extra food though. (No skimmer, lots more feeding)
Overall, I must admit that I am not thrilled with a horizontal build though.
Had to do it to fit, and it is easier to clean, but just doesn't seem to grow as efficiently.

The ATS is all LED now as well. Maybe a month or so. The LEDs have been extended all the way, and CFLs are gone.
Different thread on the whole LED aspect.

I am starting to plan Rev3!
The wife finally agreed to upgrading to a 200g tank, so need a lot bigger ATS.
It will be vertical this time.
The ATS will be going outside, so no problem with space like I have now.
Unfortunately, it means electricity paying for a separate pump. Argh.
Hmm.. I wonder if I can make it all solar based.

It is funny. What I consider "not great" now on an ATS, especially with the extra feeding and such, I would probably consider fantastic
with a normal skimmer/carbon/phosban method.

[rygh]

Well, I hit the 6 month mark on this design.
From when I started on the build, so not quite running six months, but close enough.

Still working OK.
No protein skimmer running.
Zero nitrates, zero phosphates, and seeming happy fish and a few corals.

I still have a lot of bubble algae and hair algae.
So I still wish I had done a more efficient vertical one.
But I am happy with how easy it is to clean. Don't even need to turn the pump off.
Pop the 3 plates, scrape, done in 5 minutes, once a week.

The screens are getting a bit smoother due to the scraping. Otherwise everything is as good as new.
No need to change the bulbs of course. Love LED.

I am slowly upgrading to a much larger tank, and am planning a larger vertical unit for that.

[SantaMonica]

Great to hear. Maybe some pics of the typical full screens...

[inkidu]

Rygh,

In my horizontal scrubber I use an air pump which is connected to the outlet of my powerhead.

The effect is that a large amount air gets trap under and then travels up through my screen, but only at the inlet of the tray.

The effect seems to work quite well in fact I noticed a change over just one day.

The algae became greener and thicker but only at the initial inlet of the scrubber.

Also noticed that one thing that seems to make a horizontal more effective is a steep slope, which you have and something I don't have.

The effect is to create a lot of turbulence and the presence of a thin boundary layer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_layer

This almost certainly is one reason the vertical scrubbers are more effective.

Thinking about using a "air curtain tube" all along the length of my scrubber to see what happens soon.

Hoping you would have more than OK results you are an influential representative for LED users.

Good luck on a vertical I have plans for one also. (I am thinking big with the possibility that I might not need to scrape every week)

Hope this helps.

[rygh]

I will try to remember pics next weekend when I clean.

Interesting idea on the air bubbler.
Might make it more 3 dimensional, and cause nice turbulence.

The big problem with horizontal as a I see it is that algae simply cannot grow UP out of the water that easily.
As soon as the algae grows a bit, it gets matted down by the algae above it.
So it ends up being a thin and dense. Which is not very good for light and nutrients.
I think that may be why horizontal dump buckets work. A big thick slosh, and you lose the film effect.
Hard to say.
Vertical next time.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=645&start=10 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=645&start=10)


My new LEDs for the big build showed up about 2 weeks ago.
Big shopping trip on ebay.
But so many things to do with the new big tank, they are still sitting in the package.
Soon.

[rygh]

Great to hear. Maybe some pics of the typical full screens...
Here you go. A bit less than a week, but normal so-so growth.
Not a ton expected, it is a fairly lightly loaded system.