algae scrubber help

[ihfarmboy75]

I am setting up a 135 gallon reef tank and am new to saltwater. I bought a bunch of live rock and equipment off of craigslist. Included in this purchase were two skimmers. I have read that many people are replacing their skimmers with algae scrubbers. I guess my main question is do I really need a skimmer if I have an algae scrubber? Is there any down side to not having a skimmer? I would prefer to not have one if I don't need one as it would free up room in the sump and it would be one less pump I would have to buy. I am going to have about 300 lbs of live rock in the tank and am running a dart 3600gph on a closed loop system.
I appreciate any input.

[SantaMonica]

FAQ:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68)

[ihfarmboy75]

Thanks Santa Monica, I had read that but was a little confused by two of the answers. I don't know, maybe I read them wrong.

Q: I have a fish-only tank with large fish, and I don't care about small food particles floating around in the water. Do I need a scrubber?
A: Maybe not. If you don't mind cleaning the nuisance algae off the glass (which is caused by Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate in the water), then a skimmer may be fine. But if you are trying to eliminate nuisance algae (and glass cleaning) then you'll need a scrubber in addition to a skimmer, because a scrubber removes Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate (which is what algae feeds on).

The bold is what confuses me. There it sounds like I need both.

Q: I've heard that going "skimmerless" is only for experienced aquarists.
A: That was correct before July 2008. But it is now known how to easily build and use a scrubber to do all your filtering for you (just like in the ocean). It is cheap, easy, and best of all there is NO possible way for something to "go wrong" with a scrubber and have it kill your whole tank (skimmers however can overflow the cup and kill everything because of the ammonia build up). So scrubbers actually are now the entry level (beginner friendly) way to start out.


But the answer to the second question and several others make it sound as though I can get away without using a skimmer. I have a scrubber in my 125 gallon freshwater and love it so far. I've had it going for less than a week (that will be a different post as I have questions on it as well lol) and am really impressed. I would love to build a bigger, better version in my sump and sell the skimmers I have to purchase other equipment.
Again, any insight is appreciated. I have been doing freshwater for years, but am brand new to salt. It seems the only advice you can get on other forums is the "pro skimmer, anti scrubber" opinion. I just want to gather all the "facts" so I can make an informed decision.

[SantaMonica]

Yes, the folks on the other sites are paid by the skimmer people, either in cash or free product or free marketing benefits. There are 3000 of them from LFS alone.

Of course you can run without a skimmer; all a skimmer does is remove the food that you feed. However in a fish only tank with only a skimmer, there is nothing to remove the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, thus you get nuisance algae (which eats Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate). So, with a fish only tank with a skimmer, if you add a scrubber (which eats Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate), you then remove the nuisance algae too.

Now, if you have live rock and sand, then you are fine for a reef tank with corals and small fish. If you have no corals and only large fish, and few live rock, then a skimmer could be used too since you actually do want to remove food out of the water. But if you have corals, you don't want to remove the food out of the water.

So you will not need your skimmers.

[ihfarmboy75]

Rock out, that just saved me about 200 bucks on a skimmer pump! Thanks for all the input SM. I should be drilling it this weekend and have everything set up next week. I'll be sure to post pics!

[rygh]

To clarify: I am new to ATS, so this is not advice, but my thoughts, and I would like advice on going skimmer-less as well.
My ATS is basically working now, although not well established.
I run my skimmer for about 4 hours after the main evening feeding. (I do feed a bit automatically during the day, but not much)
Note that the algae is definitely growing better after turning down the skimmer. It was "winning" in a way.

My theory on going part-time skimmer is this:
1) The fish don't eat everything, and they tend to crank up waste production after eating.
So why not simply get a bunch of that crud out of the system before it goes through the whole decay->bio cycle.
If nothing else, decaying detritus is ugly. And some food particles take a while to decay.
Yes, that crud can be good food for other things, but I think there is plenty the skimmer misses.
2) If something bad happens, a skimmer is great for that.
You can get a big surge of organics when a fish dies and disintegrates. Skimmers can handle a surge, but algae takes time to ramp up and grow.

But remember : I already had a skimmer.

[SantaMonica]

The fish don't eat everything, and they tend to crank up waste production after eating. So why not simply get a bunch of that crud out of the system before it goes through the whole decay->bio cycle.

Because the waste is not waste. It is food for the corals. It should be circulated around with powerheads. You cannot feed your corals too much, provided, you have corals.


If nothing else, decaying detritus is ugly. And some food particles take a while to decay.

The clean up crew should knock it apart in a few minutes, so that it's just dust.


If something bad happens, a skimmer is great for that. You can get a big surge of organics when a fish dies and disintegrates. Skimmers can handle a surge, but algae takes time to ramp up and grow.

Organics are not the problem. Ammonia is. And skimmers do no remove any ammonia at all. The oranics are simply more food for the corals. The space/energy that you are using for a skimmer now could be used for a stronger/additional scrubber, which would leave all the food in the water, as well as produce more food, as well as remove more ammonia (thus protecting more against dead fish), nitrate, phosphate, metals, and C02, and add more oxygen via photosynthesis.