Hi guys!! new here and my scrubber

[TheCanuck]

Hey guys just built a scrubber, a very poor one. I am hoping for results even though i didn't match up the gph/cubic inches. I have a quietone 4000 running on it with 4ft or so of hosing then it goes through the pvc and drains. The sheet is 11 3/8 by 17 1/2 with that pump running over it. I couldn't really seed the scrubber but will buy some store turf tomorrow. I have a refigum 24watt bulb on it. The tank is a 12x2x2 360 predator tank. I just removed the skimmer to put this in place. Any thoughts? I am hoping to have some results them remove all my filtration for a larger scrubber with a micron filter sock. Is this possible? what about the amonia and nitrites? I have triggers and a 5ft green moray that produce a massive bio load. Any suggestions would be great. As of now i am running a 55gallon sump with a 3 drawer system rigged with prefilter, micron sock, 300 pot scrubbies, 2 5 gallon bucks STUFFED with bio bale and an fx5 loaded with cermic rings.

any thoughts?

ALSO here is the link to the build of my tank and full pics of filtration and other stuff.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... p?t=317355 (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317355)

[SantaMonica]

Put your skimmer back on, and remove the scrubber. Unfortunately that scrubber you built is not going to do anything. And since it was just a temporary one anyway, you can get to work on a real one. But you will need your skimmer and wet/dry for now. Note: For the skimmer to work good on such large pieces of waste, you need to have some form of cleanup crew to break the waste into smaller pieces, and then you need to have brisk flow across the sand, so that the waste particles will flow up and into your skimmer and filter floss.

As for your eventual setup, one thing needs to be determined: Do you really want/need a skimmer, or not? It is indeed possible to have a powerful enough scrubber so that you don't need a skimmer. But this scrubber will need to be very powerful for a 360 gal predator tank. Your reason for not wanting a skimmer or wet/dry? Noise? Space?

[TheCanuck]

My skimmer is rated for a 300gallon.

My wetdry and fx5 is way overkill for filtration.


I am working on a better design made of acrylic, but wanted a test one in the mean time.

Why wouldn't this one work? I understand it may be underrated but thats fine with me i just want to see some results.

Also i have heard scrubber = better than protein skimmer.

So will i not receive any results from this test? I know its not adequate but its just for a test.

[rygh]

I would image that Moray would eat any cleanup crew you put in there.
Don't they love small snails and crabs?

A 12x17 screen, double sided, is 400 sq inches. Seems helpful, especially if you are really just going for nitrate reduction.
That pump is probably 800 gph at that height, so 60 gph/inch. Seems ok.
Lighting is FAR to small.
Screen looks to be completely smooth.

The expert might have more comments, but it seems like if you fix the last 2 (fatal) issues, you might get some results.

[TheCanuck]

I would image that Moray would eat any cleanup crew you put in there.
Don't they love small snails and crabs?

A 12x17 screen, double sided, is 400 sq inches. Seems helpful, especially if you are really just going for nitrate reduction.
That pump is probably 800 gph at that height, so 60 gph/inch. Seems ok.
Lighting is FAR to small.
Screen looks to be completely smooth.

The expert might have more comments, but it seems like if you fix the last 2 (fatal) issues, you might get some results.

Thanks this is the response i was looking for. I know this is not the best algae scrubber but i am still skeptical... i need to see results before i invest some money on a good acrylic one you know? I'll grab another light, what kind of wattage should i be shooting for? Anything to speed results? My tank is just beginning the BROWN algae bloom we all dread. My tap water is really good and i only get minimal but its still a pain cleaning the tank, because i triggers bite. I have had many deep wounds due to them and almost stitches :(. But i love them so :D

[SantaMonica]

12 X 17 is 204, not 400.

Adding another light won't do anything; is way too little. Screen needs to be replaced with plastic canvas anyway. Trying a non-scrubber, like this one, is not only going to not do anything, it's going to cloud your water and make thing worse. Really... don't even try it.

If "scrubber better than skimmer" is the reason for wanting a scrubber only, then read the faq first:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68)

Having scrubber-only filtration on a 360 heavy load predator tank is not a game, especially if you are going to remove the wet/dry too.

Quick guideline:

0.5 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon MINIMUM.
1.0 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon for HIGH filtering.
1.0 square inches of screen per gallon, with bulbs on BOTH sides. (10 x 10 = 100 square inches = 100 gal)
2.0 square inches of screen per gallon, if ONE sided.
18 hours of lights ON, and 6 hours of lights OFF, each day.
Flow is 24 hours, and is 35 gph per inch of width of screen, EVEN IF one sided.
Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas.
Clean algae off of screen every SEVEN (7) days NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.

[TheCanuck]

12 X 17 is 204, not 400.

Adding another light won't do anything; is way too little. Screen needs to be replaced with plastic canvas anyway. Trying a non-scrubber, like this one, is not only going to not do anything, it's going to cloud your water and make thing worse. Really... don't even try it.

If "scrubber better than skimmer" is the reason for wanting a scrubber only, then read the faq first:
http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/vie ... p?f=9&t=68 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68)

Having scrubber-only filtration on a 360 heavy load predator tank is not a game, especially if you are going to remove the wet/dry too.

Quick guideline:

0.5 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon MINIMUM.
1.0 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon for HIGH filtering.
1.0 square inches of screen per gallon, with bulbs on BOTH sides. (10 x 10 = 100 square inches = 100 gal)
2.0 square inches of screen per gallon, if ONE sided.
18 hours of lights ON, and 6 hours of lights OFF, each day.
Flow is 24 hours, and is 35 gph per inch of width of screen, EVEN IF one sided.
Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas.
Clean algae off of screen every SEVEN (7) days NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.


Okay so ill go pick up the scrubber canvas. Is the flow i have good enough?? I don't want to run the scrubber only until my tank is fully mature which it still has curing lace rock. I would mostly like algae growth to stop and nitrates to be helped out with the solely taken care of by the scrubber. Also what kind of lights would i need for a 360cui screen?

[ocean rock]

hi mate
360 gal
build two ats screens 180 gallon per screen so 18in by 10 in or you could do 24in by 5in light both sides i would use t5 on the 24 in screen and 4 25w cfl on the 18 in screen , they will need to be light both sides both screens , your also going to need about 960 ghp per ats ive calculated that at 40 g per inch , thats for the 24in and 630 gal for the 18in thats calculated at 35g per inch
you are going to need strong lighting and big screens with a big bio load , use plastic canvas rough it up with a holes saw " cactus rough " so you can feel the prickles
hope this helps

[inkidu]

My two cents is that you just aren't looking for some algae growth on the screen you want to be able to remove large quantities of algae. In mass.

Only then can you effectively remove a large amount of nutrients something I sure you will have with that tank.

I would think go on the large side (lighting) of what ever santa monica recommends.

Keep in mind that the expense of a scrubber are the bulbs and the energy needed to run them.

So I would recommend an Ice cap electronic ballast. Marine depot $150 (660-009) Not cheap but some of the best ballasts made and are repairable.

The ballast operates at a higher frequency(>20Khz) than most and will help you get the most out of your lights.(life and output) And it offers a great amount

of flexibility i.e. bulb type(vho,pc, t-5 HO etc...) and in different configurations(2,3,or 4 bulbs). I have gotten good pc bulbs from this ebay seller.

http://stores.ebay.com/aquaticfactoryllc Maybe not ideal but very cheap "daylight" pc bulbs. Think a lot of light.

Also like that the ballast will run t-12 bulbs at a higher output. And some retail home stores can have full spectrum bulbs fairly cheap. Down side you

would need to pack them(T-12) together fairly close. Another option is the T-5 bulbs great output small size. Downside availability and cost.

By the way I have been to the monsterfishkeepers site before needless to say those size tanks are going to be my next tank.

Thinking about a large lion fish tank

I am very glad to see someone from that site here. Given the large size and expensive of the filters/skimmers needed for those size fish

eliminating them with an algae scrubber would be ideal. You already now how to go big so don't play around, design a scrubber worthy of that tank.

Hope this helps.

[SantaMonica]

First thing that is needed to be known: Do you...

Just want to build a "test" scrubber to see if it "grows" algae, but will not reduce nutrients or nuisance algae.

or

Just want to build a "test" scrubber to see if it nutrients and nuisance algae can be kept away. This will be a sloppy, noisy, bright, unreliable contraption (but cheap).

or

Just want to go ahead an build a solid scrubber that will, guaranteed, solve your (otherwise upcoming) nutrient and nuisance algae problems, and which will also be quiet, easy to clean, redundant, and with no light shining into your room. (expensive)

Lastly, do you want to (for sure) remove your skimmer and wet/dry.

[TheCanuck]

First thing that is needed to be known: Do you...

Just want to build a "test" scrubber to see if it "grows" algae, but will not reduce nutrients or nuisance algae.

or

Just want to build a "test" scrubber to see if it nutrients and nuisance algae can be kept away. This will be a sloppy, noisy, bright, unreliable contraption (but cheap).

or

Just want to go ahead an build a solid scrubber that will, guaranteed, solve your (otherwise upcoming) nutrient and nuisance algae problems, and which will also be quiet, easy to clean, redundant, and with no light shining into your room. (expensive)

Lastly, do you want to (for sure) remove your skimmer and wet/dry.

I am not sure about moving my wet/dry.

I just want to see some algae growth on my little crappy scrubber..... enough for me to believe that a scrubber can produce results on my tank

[ocean rock]

if you dont have the right ingredients you wont make the perfect cake .
your screen is the wrong material
your lighting is not strong enough
and iam not sure if you have the right flow
with out the first three things been right you will never get the green stuff to grow .

[inkidu]

I have off and on been in the hobby for at least 15 years. I have had an algae scrubber for 98% of that time i.e. almost exclusively that is my only filtration method.

The word filtration does not do what an algae scrubber does justice. At least for me I want to replicate nature as much as possible. I haven't seen any overhang

filters or the like in the ocean have you?

As far as I am concerned there is no other way to keep fish.

You don't want to just grow algae.

You want to export algae/nutrients in mass.

Consider your bioload (fish waste, rotting food, etc...) then think that is what I want to remove.

By removing the algae.

I could put it another way. My FW discus keeping brothers keep discus by almost constantly changing the water i.e. removing there waste.

More work than I want to do but at least there fish are in "clean" water (clean meaning without things that are harmful)

More traditional ways only break down waste to something less harmful to the fish but don't remove the waste. Hence the need for water changes.

Would you want to live in cesspool?

Hope this helps.

[SantaMonica]

enough for me to believe that a scrubber can produce results on my tank

Then that is the final answer. You want to see "results" on your 360, which means you want Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate reduced to "zero", and you want no nuisance algae in your display. This will not ever, ever, happen with the scrubber that you built. Which is why I said to remove it and put your skimmer back on until you build a scrubber which can indeed do what you want. As a matter of fact, if you try to run the one you built, you are going to cloud the water when the black algae starts sliding off of the screen.

Knowing that you want to keep your wet/dry, but eventually remove your skimmer, helps. You don't need to remove your skimmer, it will only benefit things from a nutrient point of view, but since you have decided we'll leave it at that.

[inkidu]

TheCanuck,

It is obviously an expensive decision and completely your own. (Lights, diy time, etc...) I would like to make it easier if you are interested?

I would like to see more people that keep monster fish use an effective algae scrubber. Would like to do it eventually myself.

I am willing to do my small part. If you need a roughened screen(an important part) I can supply one essential free of all the labor involved with roughing.

Say $2 for the screen and $1 or $2 for shipping. I use an oscillating tool to roughen my screens. More or less takes me little time.

I can be time consuming if you don't have the tool.

Thank your eel. One day I hope to keep such a predator. My taste lion fish or cuttlefish.

If no its alright. Trying something new isn't always easy or cheap.

One other thing LET GO PENS

[TheCanuck]

TheCanuck,

It is obviously an expensive decision and completely your own. (Lights, diy time, etc...) I would like to make it easier if you are interested?

I would like to see more people that keep monster fish use an effective algae scrubber. Would like to do it eventually myself.

I am willing to do my small part. If you need a roughened screen(an important part) I can supply one essential free of all the labor involved with roughing.

Say $2 for the screen and $1 or $2 for shipping. I use an oscillating tool to roughen my screens. More or less takes me little time.

I can be time consuming if you don't have the tool.

Thank your eel. One day I hope to keep such a predator. My taste lion fish or cuttlefish.

If no its alright. Trying something new isn't always easy or cheap.

One other thing LET GO PENS


Haha syd the kid is the shit.

I would love the screen. I pmed you.