T5 VHO 4' Spectralux Fluorescent Grow Lamps 7200 lumen

[inkidu]

Notice the lamp is VHO not HO (95 watts)

Not that many people have a 4' long scrubber but if you get 7200 lumen out of one $13 bulb

you might want to design a horizontal scrubber around a bulb that powerful and cheap to replace.

http://www.horticulturesource.com/pdfdo ... -p7690.pdf (http://www.horticulturesource.com/pdfdocs/t5-vho-3000k-red-95-watt-25-cs-4-7200-lumens-l1-p7690.pdf)

You would need to use something like a icecap electronic ballast to run one and some quality endcaps (designed to run VHO bulbs)

But given the very good tech of the ballast you might also find you want need to replace the bulb as often.

My icecap 660 would keep my planted tank bulbs good for at least a year. It all mattered what I was trying to grow.

7200 lm/ 95 watts = 76 lumen per watt Efficient too. But not quite as good as the HO version 5000 lm / 54 watts = 93 lm per watt

Hope this helps.

[SantaMonica]

Here is the fixture for it:

http://www.horticulturesource.com/sunli ... -3--p7681/ (http://www.horticulturesource.com/sunlight-supply-4-ft-4-lamp-120-v-solar-wind-vho-28000-lumens-1-switch-2-a-c-outlets-47-9-x-14-4-x-3-3--p7681/)?

[inkidu]

SM I know you are not to keen on wide horizontal scrubbers but do you have an opinion on what a 47" by 14"

horizontal scrubber with that kind of power (28000 lumen) could handle? I normally don't like to think gallons but bioload.

So another words would this be in the ballpark of handling monster fish ex. a large grouper, large eels, sloppy predator fish etc...

With tank sizes in the 100's of gallons. Are there ex. out there. links and/or pictures?

Any help would be appreciated.

I brought up the bulb because a long thin horizontal with say one or two bulbs might make sense.

Something directly over the back length of a big long tank. (It would keep the pump size down and possibly a good use of space.)

I am also a big fan of icecap ballast and diy.

A 4' long vertical I would imagine needs a very large pump. Has anyone tried something that long?

[SantaMonica]

What you are not considering is that filtration is a function of light, area, screen roughness, and flow. Reducing flow so that you can use a smaller pump is just going to reduce filtering. You want as much water flowing over the screen as possible. Every molecule that flows over the screen is more filtering.

Also, in the case of a non-vertical, and especially in the case of a long horizontal one like you described, you start getting algae-islands as the growth gets thicker. Real growth can get one inch thick, but even a half inch is going to start re-routing flow on a horizontal screen. Slow flow starts to reduce more, even below it's already slow rate, and growth occurs. This stops nutrient transfer to the algae that has already growth, causing it to yellow (bake under the light). So to make up for this you have to have a giant horizontal layout, just to make it as effective as a much smaller vertical.

So, considering that a verical is much smaller, and actually easier to build (placing the lights, finding space, etc), I don't see why you would consider a big horizontal.

So the answer is, it does not matter how strong those lights are; Reduced flow and algae islands are going to be the limiting factor.

[inkidu]

In my horizontal scrubber the flow rate doesn't change no matter if there was a brick in the flow. What goes in comes out.

I am not suggesting a small pump only a smaller pump than a vertical would need.

If there is an issue with an island,becoming to high, than maybe cleaning the screen more often would be an answer.

Also a horizontal could be designed with baffles to control and route flow.

How big would a pump need to be for a 4' long vertical scrubber? Is it possible?

I ask because it would seem to me that pump would still need to be much larger than a horizontal would require.

Why not just go vertical? Could you spend less money powering a pump, buying a pump, and getting a cheap to maintain lighting system?

That is to say one 4' long lamp is cheaper than two 2' long ones and I would assume even a 1200 gph pump would be less money to buy and run

than the pump needed for a 4' long vertical scubber. With me there is also a noise issue. I want to enjoy my tank not listen to the pump.

Don't get me wrong. I still believe you. (verticals are better and have many benefits over a horizontal) And I could easily be going down the wrong path.

What I am trying to figure out is how a monster fish tank,several 100's of gallons, could work the best? (keeping costs of maintaining and setting up in mind)

I have no personal experience in running a scrubber that size but I would like to know it anyone has?

Thanks for any help.

[SantaMonica]

Yes, what goes in comes out. But what gets blocked by algae does not get to what's behind it.

Cleaning more often than needed just reduces filtering.

4 feet is 36 inches: 36 time 35gph = 1260 gph.

What you are not seeing is that, yes, you can use a smaller pump on a horizontal (or any scrubber), but the filtering will be less. So you make up for it you need a bigger scrubber. So there is no gain.

Cost is not being considered here.

Monster tanks are no different: Just size and power the scrubber properly.

[inkidu]

Thanks for the reply

4 feet is 48 inches, 48 * 35 gph = 1680 gph

1200 gph already seems like quite a lot for screen 14" wide.

I wouldn't assume that all the nutrients get "consumed" in the water passing over any scrubber in the first pass or even need to be.

I could be wrong. Considering that, would it even be necessary to have a screen completely uniformly covered.

Has anyone built a vertical scrubber that long?

What big scrubbers are out there in the world?

Pictures and or links? Anyone?

To me cost is always a consideration. Thats why I would like to figure out a way to use a $13 7200 lumen bulb.

4 foot bulbs seem like the sweet spot as far as cost/availability.

Thanks for any help.

[SantaMonica]

Correct on 48 inches.

14" needs 490 gph

All the nutrients don't get consumed; just more of them.

Yes some have built 48"; I don't remember where; check the examples.

Any big scrubber that I find, I post. I have over 100 new ones to post this summer.

[inkidu]

Thanks for the help SM.

For anyone considering using this type of bulb in a diy setup. I contacted Ice Cap about using their ballast.

Mainly because they mention using T-5 HO bulbs and not VHO T-5 bulbs usually VHO bulbs are T-12.

They told me that it should not be a problem but they did recommend using a fan in the fixture to

keep temperatures down and to prolong the life of the bulb. I did notice this in my research about high frequency electronic ballasts.

If you look at the footnotes on page two of this spec sheet there are some warnings about high frequency ballast and T-5 bulbs.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/images/PDF/syl ... -specs.pdf (http://www.1000bulbs.com/images/PDF/sylvania-20903-specs.pdf)

Although with some of these bulbs that have a lifespan (spec at lasting) of 25000 or more hours I would think that a person might need to

change the bulb before it got that far into the overall lifespan of the bulb anyways but it is worth making a note of the possible failure point.

Also noticed that the T-5 bulbs are much better than any of the other common sizes as far as output and lifespan, which makes them cheaper in the long run.

Hope this helps.

[inkidu]

In my further research of the possibility of using T-5 bulbs I have come across a few more points of interest.

While the VHO T-5 has great output the availability is limited and they are pricey. Besides the Advance JOP-2S95-G, which works at 277 V to 480 volts, and

the ice cap ballast, which works at a more standard voltage. I have not come across any other ballasts so far. ??

There are some very good HO ballasts that run at 40 Khz and more that also have protection from late in the life bulb failure point that I mentioned i.e. End-of-Lamp Life (EOLL)

protection circuit. So anyone might need to weigh the potential benefit, over regular HO bulbs, of having such a powerful VHO bulb.

I am always concerned with the expense of running a scrubber. One reason that I started off

with led and why a would prefer a 4' T-5 bulb, which is close to the same price as a 2' HO bulb. But I have started to come across some 4' HO T-5 3000K bulbs, especially if bought

in bulk, that are cheap i.e. $2-$6. I am wanting to figure out the best/economical way to run a large/mega scrubber. From what I have seen so far the 4' bulb is the size that makes

the most sense as far as the cost of any individual bulb and the availability of the bulbs. Another point of interest that might apply to people using off the shelf CF in scrubbers.

I have seen some of the VHO and HO bulbs that are designed to work well in hot areas. Which easily happens in an enclose area like a scrubber that encloses the light.I like the

heat for me because in my case, warm water FW discus tank, I could use the heat to keep my tank warm. But if the bulb isn't especially designed to handle the heat which is probably

the case with most CF in an algae scrubber, the heat from being in an enclose area will prematurely shorten bulb life and shift the light spectrum. This might be a reason

that some have found the need to so quickly replace a bulb that is still bright but not working well. Another way to say it is that an off the shelf CF bulb doesn't do well as far as

lifespan and spectrum shift when you put them in areas they were never designed to be in. While if you get a T-5 bulb that is especially designed to handle high temp with out

the loss life or change dramatically in spectrum, you might not need to replace them so often.

As always I am thinking aloud hoping that someone has an opinion of my ideas. So please contribute.

[rygh]

I use an ice-cap ballast, with HO-T5 bulbs in my main tank, giving me VHO-T5.
- I also use a few LEDs, but a different story.

It is an interesting trade off, and more complex than you might think.

The bulbs are expensive and/or don't last long.
Meaning, if you buy a cheap HO-T5, it lasts about half of what you expect.
But if you buy premium ones, they do fairly well. Except actinics, but that is not an ATS issue.
I have had better luck with the bulbs from icecap themselves. Supposedly built to handle VHO better, and seem to.

On the other hand, you need less bulbs.
They put out substantially more light.
Using less bulbs saves money of course, so that counteracts the bulb life cost.

As a significant bonus, fewer bulbs also allows more room for better reflectors!!!
- That is key, since a nice wide properly bent individual bulb reflector can make a 2X difference over your basic fixture.

They put out a lot of heat as well. Even the the ballast itself gets toasty.
Not a big problem if you are OK with fans, but in an enclosed space, could be significant.

I would say HO versus VHO is roughly a wash, except for the reflector issue.
If you can get great reflectors on, that makes the most difference. With either type.

[inkidu]

Rygh, I notice that you mentioned that you spent $150 on T-5 bulbs on another thread.

How many did that buy?

I mention cheap $2-$6 a piece but that is by the case granted (any where between 25-50 pieces) from this site.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/F54T5-High-Output-3000K/

Some of those are name brand bulbs. Shipping is always a big ? but I think ??? it is not to bad from this

site. Might also help that if you buy a case it is already in its shipping container so the distributor doesn't try to charge

so much extra.

I also would like to bring up again my concerns with premature bulb failure/life and how it relates to heat. The way I look at it screw in CF bulbs with built in ballasts are

cheap throw away tech. and not the sophisticated tech that is available. Granted this is all something that involves DIY but I just want people to know there is a difference.

There are bulbs that are made specifically for extreme temperatures. (click on product info) Notice the graph that shows bulb life fall off with increase temps.

http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/a ... ns&lang=en (http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/applicationsolutions/industrial/t5ho/index.php?main=us_en&parent=0&id=us_en_application_solutions&lang=en)

I am interested in building a scrubber with a T-5 fixture like this

http://www.industriallightingproducts.c ... -35-WT.pdf (http://www.industriallightingproducts.com/Q309%20PDF/2009-35-WT.pdf)

and have no concerns with built up heat or water infiltration.

Maybe in something like a very large hardshell gun case that could easily be transported and could be closed to keep the light out.

Just an idea I am playing around with.

What does anyone think?

Hope this helps.

[inkidu]

Another interesting find. Did you know that t-5 bulbs have two different ends internally?

Might be potential crucial if used vertically.

http://www.cie.co.at/div2/documents/200 ... report.pdf (http://www.cie.co.at/div2/documents/2003%20meeting%20materials/R2-30-TL5report.pdf)

Might also want to take in to consideration if there is a fan on only one side of an enclosure.

T-5 bulbs do best at 95 degrees F so you could have the bulbs oriented in one way or the other to optimize output.

Hope this helps.