My Santa Monica - Algae Acrylic Scrubber 100

[michalm]

Hello,

I got it ! It tok couple weeks to get it but it is finally running. So far everything is going well. After 3 days I can see some algae.

I will write here about the progress.

Below are some pictures and one movie on youtube.

Thank you Bryan (Santa Monica) for great product and good work !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT7OcJZp7cE

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_01.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_02.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_03.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_04.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_05.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_06.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_07.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_08.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_09.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_10.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_11.jpg

[sklywag]

Looks like that thing was a custom order. Are those plants live? FTS?

[michalm]

Hello,

Yep, I order from Santa and made some modification (just a little).

Yest those plants are live - Anubias :)

FTS: www.youtube.com/mmalejko (http://www.youtube.com/mmalejko)

Thanks

[sklywag]

I knew it was a SM , but the way it fits the width of your display perfectly looks like it was built just for it.

Those are freshwater rays? Or saltwater Anubias?

[michalm]

Yea, It's fits perfect. First I was planning to put it under the tank, but it was too big...

Rays - freshwater :))))))) Motoro...

[michalm]

Hi,

I wonder if my water level is not too high ? Maybe I should change my pump to less gph ?

Thanks

[SantaMonica]

It's a little higher than mine. You probably want a bit less, but this is not proven yet; you will be able to tell later, based on how much growth is in the pool. If you want, you can put a valve right after the pump, and turn it down a bit. Or, a smoother-flowing drain will do it too (no 90 degree bends.) I use flex tubing for the drain, and find that a small change in position makes a big difference. As you make changes, watch the water level for a while, because it can move around a bit as it stabilizes.

For simplicity, I'd leave it as-is for now, and see how it grows.

[michalm]

OK, I'll wait.. and later I change flow...

I'm worry about the algae. It's already 4th days, I see only few algae on left and right side. Very few in center. Something wrong ? Maybe flow is too big ?

Thanks

[SantaMonica]

Can't have too much flow. Don't worry, it will grow. There has never been a screen that did not grow.

[SantaMonica]

By the way, if you want to start feeding more, you can do that now. How much are you feeding?

Have you tested nitrate and phosphate?

[michalm]

Do you mean... feeding fish ???

Yesterday I check the Nitrate level - it was 80... and I had to change some water, becaue the high level of NO3 is very bad for my stingrays and Arowana... I couldn't wait much longer... I have never check phosphate before... but I have some algae in my tank... not too much...

Thank you

[SantaMonica]

I mean feeding anything in the tank. But, if you already have algae in the tank (which I did not see in the pics), then the growth will be good on the screen. Yours is starting slow, but it will catch up. Post a screen pic at day 7.

[SantaMonica]

Are leaving the lights on for 18 hours?

[michalm]

Are leaving the lights on for 18 hours?

Yes 18 yours. For first two days was 16, but I changed it.

[michalm]

Hello,

I start on 04.16.2010 at 6.00 am. Today is 04.25.2010. After 8 1/2 days I took some pictures, that you can see below.

Question:
Should I change anything ? water flow ?
Should I clean it ?

Thank you.

Mike

[michalm]

and 3 more pictures:

Thanks !

[SantaMonica]

Ah... growth! And the green is perfect. By the way, you can see the rough screen bits of plastic inside the holes, which is what you want.

The bald center means, in your particular situation, that the light-power is too strong for the ability of the algae to grow in that flow. Since we don't want to increase flow (would need a larger drain), reduce the light down to 12 hours. I just reduced mine for the same same reason... trying to get all green instead of yellow/green. At 18 hours, yours would still grow in the middle, but it would be the yellow stuff which does not stretch out into the water. So try it at 12 hours, and adust accordingly... less hours if bald/yellow in the middle, or more hours if no bald/yellow. Give it 3 more days and clean it on Wednesday.

The beauty of the light timer is that each person can easily adjust for their own condition. As your nutrients drop, you'll need to adjust again. Eventually your nutrients will measure zero or near zero, and you will reach a steady-state timer setting that works well all the time.

You have the nice problem of having more than enough light-power. If you had an under-powered design with too few watts, or with the watts concentrated in one spot like CFL's do, you would have the common situation of a screen of dark or black stuff. But with enough light-power spread evenly across the screen, you power yourself out of the dark growth and into the green.

[michalm]

I changed to 12 hours yesterday.

But I have a problem. Water in my tank is green and turbid. I took one picture inside the "black box", on the bottom you can see lots of dust...

What I have to do ? Clean box and clean the algae ?

Thank you

[SantaMonica]

Green water is caused by:

Not removing the screen before cleaning.
Not washing the screen in FW before putting it back.
Having too much algae growth in your sump that you manually remove.

In all three cases, pieces of algae break apart, and the green stuff goes into the water. So solve this by:

Removing the screen and taking it to the sink for cleaning.
When removing it, don't break or remove any algae.
After cleaning it in the sink, run lots of FW over it.

After you correct the problem, the green water will go away by itself in a few days as it gets eaten by copepods and bacteria.

One other situation which may cause green water, is that if you have lots of algae in your display and it start "breaking up" because the scrubber is taking away its food. In this case, some of the algae in your tank lets go and floats around, and some goes through the pumps and get chopped up (it's great food for corals). In this case, it will stop when all the algae in the display goes away.

I don't think this is your problem though, because your scrubber has not been running long enough to filter much. Did you stir up the bottom of the scrubber box? When you clean the screen, you can clean the bottom of the box too, with a paper towell. This will make sure that it's not the problem.

[michalm]

OK, I didn't change anything else. I just changed light time from 18 to 12 hours. I don't think that this is a reason what happened.

Now, I cleaned it using a lot of tap water and inside the black box. On the screan I see only brown color, without large pieces of green algae.

I have another question about my wet/dry filter. In one part of my filter I have bio balls (blue). It is sense to keep those balls in my filter when I'm using your system. Maybe I can change it to mechanical filter media ? What do you think ?

Thank you for your time.

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Post some pics of your water. If it's green enough to be seen in pics, then we can look at it again. But I think it's just a temporary thing. Just try not to let to much algae go down the drain if you clean the box.

As for the bio balls, how much rock do you have?

[michalm]

Hi,

This is video from today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxDkp8yoskQ

As for the bio balls - there is now rock in my tank. (see movie)... and I have second filter Eheim Pro 3 - 2080.
Do I need bio balls? or maybe I can change it to other filter media - mech.

Thank you for your time.

PS: You can see my tank 24h/day (webcam inside the tank): http://www.justin.tv/mmalejko

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Are you saying that you removed the balls, and now have rock that is not shown in the video?

I'm not seeing any green... keep updating on the water and on the scrubber growth.

[michalm]

Are you saying that you removed the balls, and now have rock that is not shown in the video?

No, video is new. I just ask that maybe because I have your system, I do not need anymore bio balls, and it is a good idea to change bio to the other filter media (mech for ex.)


I'm not seeing any green... keep updating on the water and on the scrubber growth.
The water is turbid and little green. On movie you can see my other tank; this is a good compression.

I will take tomorrow next pictures - how scrubber growth.

Thanks

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Leave the balls for now.

[chrissu]

I've been running my own SM scrubber for a while now and it is working perfectly for me. Here are a couple of pictures I took of the SM yesterday before doing a weekly screen cleaning. I cleaned that screen less than seven days ago and it is stuffed full of algae. Nitrates, Nitrites, Ammonia are always zero now. Before - not usually. PH is steady at 8.1 - 8.4. Phosphates are gone! The algae on my rocks and glass is receeding too.

Now, just for the record, I was getting good results using the system exactly as it arrived but I can tell you that my screen did take a good week or so to wake up. After the screen started looking like the pictures you provided above, the growth seemed to really take off from there so you should be fine.

I like to dabble a bit so I made a couple of adjustments that seem to have helped make the algae grow faster and make the water clearer.

3D Light Bath
The SM comes with a standard 1" bulkhead to drain the water out of the unit. I flipped the bulkhead around so that the long end is sticking up rather than down. This simple 10 minute change made the water level rise by approximately an extra inch and a half or so. The SM is uniquely designed in a way that it bathes the algae so I figured why not bath the algae some more. Now I get this 3D effect whereby the light is able to penetrate through all of this thick floating algae even better. After I did this, I would clean my screen weekly and within 4 days, the SM would be stuffed full of algae again.

2ND Drain
With all this algae growth going on, I ended up adding a second drain using a spare 1" bulkhead I had laying around. The second bulkhead is reversed as well and this extra drain gives reduces the risk of the drain getting plugged up (it hasn't).

Sock
I also put a couple of 200 micron filter socks under the drains. I know they catch the food but they keep with water crystal clear so I use them. The wife hates cloudy water!

Lightling Hours
I run my SM with the lights on 24/7. Because of the 3D light bathing, I don't have to worry about the center of the screen getting too much light. The algae fills up the chamber extremely fast and the center area gets covered up by algae growth that started somewhere else on the screen. The growth is thicker and longer along the bottom portion of the screen where it is constantly bathed in water. The top portion of the screen that isn't in a bath grows at the normal rate.


I don't want to take away from anything that Santa Monica has suggested to you. The SM still works great without these extra touches and it removed all my nitrates before I started making these little adjustments. These 3D touches will just make your SM turn out even more algae. If clearer water is what you want, the 200 micron sock does the trick.

Cheers,
Chris
http://algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=517&p=4956#p4927

[michalm]

LOL, Thank you. If you don't mind, I'll copy couple things from you :)

I have huge problem with cloudy water... huge !!!

This is my tank (green and cloudy water) from today, and scrubber...

[SantaMonica]

Well the scrubber growth looks perfect for about two days growth. How many days is it? While we figure this out, remember that green water is actually healthier for a tank than clear water... the chlorophyll puts more oxygen into the water.

You are not constantly lifting the screen out to look at it are you? That will break the algae on the bottom and cause the pieces to drain to the tank. This applies especially to solid green hair growth like you are getting, since it's the hairs that break. You should be lifting the screen up only after 5 days to clean one half, then in another 5 days to clean the other half. Do your daily inspecting by removing a light and looking from the side.

This is the first case of this that I've seen. So, make a log of everything you do to the tank, and of course to the scrubber. Need N and P measurements too. Phytoplankton (floating algae, which is what the green could be) grows in the water when N and P are very high, so this may just be a temporary nutrient spike.

Also, don't touch the scrubber for 4 full days. Then start your 5 day cycle. Take lots of pics of the scrubber before you lift the screen out, and of the screen and inside of the box, before cleaning, and after cleaning. Put a towel in the drain before cleaning to stop broken pieces from getting into the tank. If you could do a video of you taking the screen out, that would be great (getting the inside of the box).

Interestingly, your canister filter does not seem to be doing much. The cannister, and the foam filter, and the floss (I believe you have) are all supposed to clean the water of these kinds of things (which is fine for a fish only tank). Have you looked in your cannister?

Must have daily N and P measurements for the next few weeks.

Didn't you just add some rock?

[michalm]

How many days is it?
I cleaned it using tap water on 27 april (4 days ago).


You are not constantly lifting the screen out to look at it are you? Do your daily inspecting by removing a light and looking from the side.
No, I lift the screen maybe 2-3 times, never turning off the water pump. I check it by removing the lamp.


Need N and P measurements too.
Today tests (I just bought a Phosphate test)
Nitrate: 10-15 ppm
Phosphate: 1-1.5 ppm

Yesterday my Nitrate was: 5-10ppm


Also, don't touch the scrubber for 4 full days.
OK, I understand. I will Not.
After 4 days, I will take some picture and post a video.


Have you looked in your cannister?
No, I haven't. But filter is working OK, This is a new filter - 3 months old.


Didn't you just add some rock?
??? No, I have no rock.

On one of the picture above you can see that algae braking off from the screen. Moreover, in Black Box on the bottom you can see dirt and that algae growth and on glass you can see the algae as well.

Do you think that the flow is too strong and maybe the algae brakes off, because of too strong flow. Maybe this is my problem.

I think that I have to put filter sock at the outlet. That should help to have clear water (not cloudy).

Maybe I should increase the light time ?

Thank you for your time.

[michalm]

more picture

[SantaMonica]

If the cansister were working, I don't think the water would stay cloudy. Isn't that the main function of a cannister... to filter particles?

Isn't this a new tank? If it is, maybe the system is trying to find a balance point. 1.5 phosphate is super high, so I would not be surprised if you are actually growing phytoplankton (which is healthy, and is what filters the ocean and keeps the oxygen high).

Can you cut your feeding in half while things settle in? There are several other things that can fix this, but the idea is to let the algae handle it. Clean out your canister, foam filter, floss, or any other thing that traps particles (and keep it clean weekly.)

Will be looking for the pics at cleaning time.

[michalm]

If the cansister were working, I don't think the water would stay cloudy. Isn't that the main function of a cannister... to filter particles?
This filter - Eheim 2080 have in 80% BIO filter media. But look what I found - This can be a problem: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... hp?t=79815 (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79815)
Tomorrow I'll check it and make some modification in this filter.


Isn't this a new tank?
No. Has more than 1 year.


Can you cut your feeding in half while things settle in?
Yes, I can :)


Clean out your canister, foam filter, floss, or any other thing that traps particles (and keep it clean weekly.)
OMG ! :) OK, I will do it :) ;)

[michalm]

Yesterday I change 50% of water.

Today Tests:
Nitrate: 5-10 ppm
Phosphate: 1 ppm

[michalm]

Hello,

Today Tests:
Nitrate: 10 ppm
Phosphate: 1 ppm

After test I change 50% of water and I made some modifications.

1. I add filter bag at outlet (after 1 hour I can see little green color on it)
2. I add value to have better control over the flow (I turn off a little bit flow)
3. I clean inside a santa black box
4. I clean my Eheim 2080 and I add some modification to make better mech filtration.
5. I change light time to 15hours

Thank you Santa for helping :) If something what I did today is not right, please let me know :) or if you need more information, pictures, movie...

Movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKRxDd3fT2c

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_50.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_51.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_52.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_53.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_54.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_55.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_56.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_57.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_58.jpg
http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_59.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Well there is no growth, so it's no wonder N and P are not dropping. The black box should be packed with growth. Did you put any medications or copper treatments into the water?

Clean the scrubber windows... don't let that stuff build up.

[michalm]

Hello,

Today Tests:
Nitrate: < 5 ppm :))
Phosphate: 1 ppm

I did not put any medications or copper into water.

But, after my remodeling eheim 2080 water is much better.

I will put some pictures tomorrow... but it looks like all is going well for now !

Thank you

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Look for anywhere that particles could be trapped in the system. Put the scrubber on 18 hours now.

[michalm]

Hello,

Today and yesterday Tests were the same:
Nitrate: 5 ppm ) ;))))
Phosphate: 1 ppm :(((((

I changed light time to 18h.

I see that every day is more algae on the screen. Should I clean it now like you said before (after 4 days) or wait couple more days ?

In tank is much less algae (especially on plants and glass), fish are in very good condition - I like it :)))),

BUT... water is still little green and cloudy. Is much better than before but it is still not what I had before. - http://www.justin.tv/mmalejko

On the picture below you can see "sock" - is green and dirty. Today I'm planing to put double sock (both 50 micron), because green water in my tank just come out of there. What do you think ?

Thank you...

[michalm]

More pictures...

;)

[SantaMonica]

Did you happen to touch the screen a lot before you put it in? I have a theory that some oils might have gotten on the screen, and algae are having a hard time holding on. I see spots on the screen where some algae let go. It happens to all new screens, but maybe it was more on yours. This pic is clearly algae letting go:

download/file.php?id=741 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/download/file.php?id=741)

In the sock, do you see hair algae? I'm not seeing any hair algae in the pics. Evenually you will get hair algae, but for now, since you only seem to be growing very small green algae, when it lets go it colors the water.

So here is what to do: Reduce flow to the scrubber (for now), so that less algae will get washed off. Adjust the flow so there is no pool at the bottom. Leave lights at 18 hours. Remove and clean the screen with a brush (no chemicals or soap, of course). Scrub very good so that any remaining oil will be removed. No algae remaining at all. Put the screen back and let's look at it again in 5 days. No more test are needed until then.

[michalm]

Hello,

I don't think so that I touched the screen a lot, but I cleaned it today to make sure that this is not the main problem.

In the sock I don't see any hair algae. I made some picture to show you how green was the sock. When I clean it today water was really green... I already double the sock.

I cleaned a screen.

I reduced the flow to the minimum that I could. I can't reduce more because on the end of the screen water does not reach (see picture - water level).

Lights I had changed before at 18 hours.

I let you know for 5 days how is going.

Thank you

Mike

[michalm]

couple more...

[michalm]

Hello,

This is 5 1/2 day.

Nitrate: 15ppm
Phosphate: 1 ppm

For the first 3 days water was perfect clean. Now is a little, just a little cloudy. But it is OK...

In the Black Box like before I see on the bottom and on plexiglas some green dust. Sock is a little green, but so far water is fine. Probably because my sock has a double 50 micron walls.

What do you think ?

Mike

[michalm]

more photos...

[SantaMonica]

Never seen anything like it. You are basically growing the same thing on your screen that normally grows on the glass, which of course, comes off in a cloud of green. The issue now is why your screen is growing this type of algae, and is not growing the green hair or other types that are growing on every other scrubber in world. Your water just can't be "unique"; something is in the water (or is not in the water) which is causing the difference. I still think that there may be some previous chemical treatment, which may have soaked into the silicone sealant of the tank, that could be a problem. There could also be something in your topoff water. Make sure you are using RODI with 0 TDS (not 1 or 2 TDS), or, use distilled water to be sure. If possible, do a copper test. Also, the food you are feeding... try changing it. There might be chemical additives in it.

There are two options: Sit and wait, or do big waterchanges. If you wait, and don't do any waterchanges at all, eventually the system will probably get back into "sync" with everybody else's tanks, because the algae will either have removed all the "stuff" that's causing the problem, or, the food you feed will put have back in the "stuff" that is missing.

Several big waterchanges, such as 30 percent a day for 10 days (with 0 TDS RODI, or with distilled) would cover any uncertainly even faster, but of course is a hassle. But the goal is to start getting green hair growing on the screen. Once they start, they will take over.

[WAK]

Could this different type of algea be growing because the scrubber is being used on a fresh water tank.

[sinie]

Maybe you can add a plant fertilizer like flourish to make it easier for the green hair algae to start growing.
At first there was only cyano growing in my scrubber, after adding some fertilizer and KN03 the green stuff started growing.

[SantaMonica]

FW or SW makes no difference. They all grow green hair when the N and P come down.

I'm thinking it might be very high iron in the topoff.

I don't think any N or P needs to be added, because plenty green is growing already, just the wrong type. If you had only cyano growing, it just meant your light was too weak.

[michalm]

Never seen anything like it.

Yea :)) I'm special :)


I still think that there may be some previous chemical treatment, which may have soaked into the silicone sealant of the tank, that could be a problem.

I am / I was using during the beginning of this time:
1. melamix (couple weeks ago)
2. pimafix (couple weeks ago)
3. aquarium salt (every couple weeks, just couple spoon)
4. Vitamin B1 - for stingrays - for metabolism (every couple weeks, 2-3 tablet)
5. Plants tabs - Seachem and Api (couple months ago)
6. Prime - 15ml - (each 50% water change)
7. Filter Carbon - (couple mounts ago)

Nothing else...


There could also be something in your topoff water. Make sure you are using RODI with 0 TDS (not 1 or 2 TDS), or, use distilled water to be sure.

I never use for fresh water RO-DI... never have to...


If possible, do a copper test....
I'm thinking it might be very high iron in the topoff....

Well... As I told you before, I have automatic water exchange: http://www.youtube.com/mmalejko#p/u/3/31EM6OmuGxI It is only exchange 1-1,5 gal per hour...
Go to 55sec. of this movie. There is a pressure regulator - http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1 ... ogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xh3/R-100201356/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053) - my is made by bronze or iron - i'm not sure... Maybe this is a problem. Sometimes when i turn off the system, and than starts again I see some brown water that is going from hose.

The second one (Solenoid valve) is made by brass.

I can turn off the whole system for couple weeks.


Also, the food you are feeding... try changing it. There might be chemical additives in it.

Food:
1. Hikari - arowana stick
2. Frozen market shrimp
3. crickiets (my own farm)
4. Hikari pleco food
5. Earth worms (my own farm)


There are two options: Sit and wait, or do big waterchanges. If you wait, and don't do any waterchanges at all, eventually the system will probably get back into "sync" with everybody else's tanks, because the algae will either have removed all the "stuff" that's causing the problem, or, the food you feed will put have back in the "stuff" that is missing. Several big waterchanges, such as 30 percent a day for 10 days (with 0 TDS RODI, or with distilled) would cover any uncertainly even faster, but of course is a hassle. But the goal is to start getting green hair growing on the screen. Once they start, they will take over.

I did lots of 50% water change during last couple weeks (when system is starting). I do not have RO-DI... never needed... but if this is necessary, well I will buy (my wife will kill me ;))) )...

Thank you for ALL, for helping :)

Mike

[sinie]

I don't think any N or P needs to be added, because plenty green is growing already, just the wrong type.

What I meant was a plant fertilizer for FW aquaria without p and N like this one for example: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... urish.html (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html)

It just contains trace elements. If plants will benefit from a fertilizer, green algae will too.

Maybe the green algae already growing will grow even faster, or maybe some other type of algae (green hair algae) will benefit more from the added trace elements and starts to take over.

There is no harm in trying! And it's inexpensive.

[Rumpy Pumpy]

Get some GHA from another tank (or if there's a FW scrubber user near you, get their scrappings), rub it all over the screen, really rub it in, then leave it for a few hours in the sun in some tankwater with no flow.

That ought to do it.

[SantaMonica]

Ok, it's one of these:

Brown topoff water (IRON!)
Melamix
Primamix
Plant tabs

Since lots of green is growing, then it's not copper. And since iron makes algae grow green, I think this is probably it. The plant tabs are also going to have an effect, since algae are plants.

The first cheap and easy thing to do is to stop the Melafix, Primamix, and plant tabs. This you can do today, do a large waterchange, and wait.

If it is the iron in the water (brown!), then you'll need to put a filter of some sort on the topoff water line. You probably don't need an RODI, but just something to remove the iron. You would need to ask a filter person about this.

[michalm]

Ok, it's one of these:

Brown topoff water (IRON!)
Melamix
Primamix
Plant tabs

Melamix, Pimafix (not Primafix) and Plant tabls I was using couple weeks ago - more than 6-7... I was changing water after that many times, even replace all filter media... I'm sure that this is not a problem.

Right now, I just turn off my automatic water exchange system, and change 60% of water.

Should I clean screen and black box one more time ?

[michalm]

I don't think any N or P needs to be added, because plenty green is growing already, just the wrong type.

What I meant was a plant fertilizer for FW aquaria without p and N like this one for example: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... urish.html (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html)

It just contains trace elements. If plants will benefit from a fertilizer, green algae will too.

Maybe the green algae already growing will grow even faster, or maybe some other type of algae (green hair algae) will benefit more from the added trace elements and starts to take over.

There is no harm in trying! And it's inexpensive.

Hmm... that make sense... I will try it... but first I turn off my automatic water exchange... maybe the iron is the problem...

[michalm]

Get some GHA from another tank (or if there's a FW scrubber user near you, get their scrappings), rub it all over the screen, really rub it in, then leave it for a few hours in the sun in some tankwater with no flow.

That ought to do it.

Sorry for stupid question.. but what is GHA ?...

Well, there is somebody from MA or CT ? with good algae screen ?

[SantaMonica]

Yes clean it; the Green Hair Algae can't grab onto the screen if that powder stuff if there. You don't need to add any algae to the screen; if it's going to grow, it will grow very quickly and fill up the box.

[michalm]

Yes clean it; the Green Hair Algae can't grab onto the screen if that powder stuff if there. You don't need to add any algae to the screen; if it's going to grow, it will grow very quickly and fill up the box.

Hi,

Yes it was a powder stuff... my whole bathroom is green :)))))

OK, I cleaned all media filter (in wetdry filter, including the sock), also I cleaned a screen and black box very carefully. I changed 60% of water.

What next ? Should I start whole system all together, or maybe I wait with scrubber two (2) days, and tomorrow I will change one more time 60% of water... to make sure that all all iron was gone ?

What do you thing ?

And something else ? I should do ?

Thank you one more time !

Mike

[SantaMonica]

60 percent tomorrow too. But let the screen grow for 5 days.

[SantaMonica]

I'm thinking now that it's probably the silicates in the topoff water, and that they are causing diatoms (which are like powder). Regardless, by fixing the topoff water, they will be removed.

[michalm]

I'm thinking now that it's probably the silicates in the topoff water, and that they are causing diatoms (which are like powder). Regardless, by fixing the topoff water, they will be removed.

well, but how to fix it ? the best and fast way...

[SantaMonica]

RODI filter, for now.

[michalm]

do you have any that you recommended ? model etc...

[SantaMonica]

Any will do, since you are not trying to get zero. You are just trying to reduce from super-high to lower. I'd ask your local store. You want to remove silicates.

[michalm]

well... I go to local store.. and... they was looking on me like on idiot :) they don't know too much... they only know how to sell it... :(

this should work:

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/p ... 9silicates (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4459silicates)

Maybe someone is using RODI filter, and can help me to choose ;))

Thank you

[SantaMonica]

Well unless someone has a better suggestion, I heard that www.TheFilterGuys.biz (http://www.TheFilterGuys.biz) have the best help.

[SantaMonica]

How's the growth today?

[michalm]

Hi :)

I was starting on 19th. (evening). I turn off my Automatic Water Exchange... For now, nothing special... It only 2 days gone...

I just wrote to thefilterguys@charter.net ... :) we will see what the say.

Thanks for helping :))))

[SantaMonica]

If you can, have your topoff water tested for silicates, and iron. Your local fish store should be able to do it. AquariumWaterTesting.com can do it. Or, if you can find the website of your local city water supply, they always have a document they post that shows what's in the water.

[michalm]

If you can, have your topoff water tested for silicates, and iron. Your local fish store should be able to do it. AquariumWaterTesting.com can do it. Or, if you can find the website of your local city water supply, they always have a document they post that shows what's in the water.

The best way is to use Aquarium Water Testing Lab. This will be reliable test. I don't believe local city water supply, and I can't be sure that water in local city water supply will have the same like in my home.

Maybe I do tap water test and also my tank water ?

Thank you

[michalm]

I ordered two tests. One for my tap water and second for my water tank. I want to make sure that I do not have any stuff in my tank that can change water, like gravel, driftwood, filter media, etc...

My Stingrays Motoro today have a First Date :)

http://www.youtube.com/mmalejko#p/u/0/dMfK0Q_p204

[michalm]

Hello,

After I close my Automatic Water System water in my tank still green and cloudy, algae is not like hair, they still like powder. I clean everything (filters, scrubber) and change 50% of water. I do NOT start scrubber again. I'm waiting for tests.

Yesterday I sent to the Aquarium Water Test - 4 bottles of water. 2 from my tank and 2 Tap water. On Tuesday I should get by email tests. After that I put it here and maybe you can help me what I need to do. I will sent tests to the Filter Guys, they will help me to decide what kind of filter will be the best for me.

Thanks for patience and for helping :)) I will not give up :)))))))))))))))))))))

Ufff... I spent 3 hours today to clean everything again... ;(

Mike

[SantaMonica]

I'm betting on silicates and iron.

[rygh]

Excess silicates + nutrients should result in a diatom bloom yes.
But that would be orange/rust colored, not green.
Hmm.

I would suggest quite a bit of carbon for a week or so. Hard to say what the heck you have chemically,
so just try to let the carbon soak everything up, and hope it returns to normal.

[michalm]

I put it now a sock of carbon...

And I'm waiting for the results of the tests. After that we should know better what to do, and what is the main problem :)

Thank you one more time ;)

[michalm]

OK, tests results.

From my Tank

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/michalm%20tank%20water.pdf

Water Test Summary
Ammonia (NH3-4) ........................Good ......................................... 0.040
Nitrite (NO2)................................Good ......................................... 0.015
Nitrate (NO3)...............................Good .............................................1.4
Phosphate (PO4) .......................... High............................................ 1.39
Silica (SiO2-3) ............................. High.............................................. 3.0
Potassium (K) ...............................Low................ .................................5
Calcium (Ca).................................Low.......... ................................... 102
Boron (B) .....................................Low.......... ....................................0.2
Molybdenum (Mo).........................Good .............................................0.0
Strontium (Sr) ............................. High............................................ 45.6
Magnesium (Mg) .......................... High........................................... 1938
Iodine (I¯)................................... High............................................ 0.31
Copper (Cu++) ............................ High............................................ 0.05
Alkalinity (meq/L)..........................Low................... ......................... 1.00


and Tap Water:

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/michalm%20tap%20water.pdf

Water Test Summary
Ammonia (NH3-4) ........................Good ......................................... 0.001
Nitrite (NO2)................................Good ......................................... 0.001
Nitrate (NO3)...............................Good .............................................0.1
Phosphate (PO4) .......................... High............................................ 1.21
Silica (SiO2-3) .............................Good .............................................0.3
Potassium (K) ...............................Low................ ............................... 43
Calcium (Ca).................................Low.......... ..................................... 90
Boron (B) .....................................Low.......... ....................................0.5
Molybdenum (Mo).........................Good .............................................0.1
Strontium (Sr) ..............................Low................. .............................2.4
Magnesium (Mg) ...........................Low.................... ........................... 88
Iodine (I¯)...................................Good ........................................... 0.07
Copper (Cu++) ............................Good ........................................... 0.03
Alkalinity (meq/L)..........................Low................... ......................... 0.79

Now, I really do not know what to do... It not make sense for me...

What do you think ?

[rygh]

My impression is that you badly need an RO/DI unit.
Your tap water has a lot of phosphates and silica, and your tank parameters roughly match that. Which is no
surprise with big water changes. Since those both cause problem algae growth, that is likely the issue.

BTW: You can just buy RO/DI water, if you do not want to pay up front for a fancy filter just yet.
Most salt water fish stores (not petco) will have it.
Also, distilled water will work as well. Often available at water supply stores.

Another thought is to stop doing water changes. Risky, but may work.
The ATS will pull out the phosphates, and the diatoms will pull out the silica.
But if you do that, check nitrates a lot.

One more thought : What type of sand do you have?
Could be silica based.

[michalm]

My impression is that you badly need an RO/DI unit.

I already sent tests results to The filter guys, I'm waiting for the RO/DI filter price.


Another thought is to stop doing water changes. Risky, but may work.
The ATS will pull out the phosphates, and the diatoms will pull out the silica.
But if you do that, check nitrates a lot.

This can be a problem, because I have 2 big Arowanas and 2 Stingrays - they produce a lots of waste !!! I can't not change water, because a couple of months ago I had a problem with high Nitrate and my Arowana looked very bad (fin problem - see a youtube movie youtube.com/mmalejko )... I have to get nitrite below 30-40, if not I will have a big problem, that is why I bought Algae Scrubbers. After 4-5 days my nitrate increase from 15 to even 40...


One more thought : What type of sand do you have?
Could be silica based.

I have 3M Colorquartz T Grade (White). Lots of people are using this kind of sand. I know that this is not aquaristic product but everybody say that this type of sand do not change water parameters.

[rygh]

Ok, I think I get the picture. Yes, with that bio load, you have a huge problem.

In fact, the problem seems simple - A single SM100 is simply not nearly big enough.
With a working, correctly sized ATS, you really should be able to stop changing the water.

SM can correct me here.
The SM100 is meant for a 100g saltwater tank, which can handle about 1-3 cubic inch of fish per 10 gallons.
You can go a bit higher for freshwater, but you have really messy type of fish.
My estimate with your type of fish is that an SM100 can probably handle about 20 cubic inches.
How big are your fish?

Switching to RODI will likely fix your problem.
Even undersized, the ATS will still help a lot.
Although RODI adds some new problems, like ph problems, buffering needs, and such.
My freshwater PH plunged when I switched. Be careful.

[michalm]

How big are your fish?

Black Arowana 1 - 18-19"
Black Arowana 2 - 16"
Stingray Motoro 1 - 12"
Stingray Motoro 2 - 11"
Pleco L27 - 8"

Can you write me something more about PH problem, when using RO/DI ?

Thank you

[michalm]

Hello,

What do you thing about other high parameters:

Strontium (Sr) ............................. High............................................ 45.6
Magnesium (Mg) .......................... High........................................... 1938
Iodine (I¯)................................... High............................................ 0.31
Copper (Cu++) ............................ High............................................ 0.05

and low...

Potassium (K) ...............................Low................ .................................5
Calcium (Ca).................................Low.......... ................................... 102
Boron (B) .....................................Low.......... ....................................0.2
Alkalinity (meq/L)..........................Low................... ......................... 1.00

Should I worry about those parameters ?

Thank you !

[SantaMonica]

This is the issue:

Silica (SiO2-3) ............................. High.............................................. 3.0

This is what is causing diatoms, which do not grow in hairs... they grow in specs. So they break off and color the water, and stop further filtering. It is true that once your nutrients are low enough, strong scrubbing would keep them low (because the scrubber would be growing hairs, not specs), and you would not need to do water changes (nitrates would stay below 5 or so). But scrubbers do not remove (much) silicates. I use distilled water for top-off, and it works great; it might be an option for you too.

Right now we do not know if one scrubber is enough to handle the load, since the scrubber is not working at all yet. This is the first case (ever) of silicates being so high that only diatoms grow, and not hairs. So the first thing to do is get the silicates down, and you can do it either with water changes with distilled or RODI water (and of course doing top-offs with the same), or, with phosphate remover such as Rowaphos because it removes silicates too. Once the silicates come down and your scrubber starts growing, you can slow down on the water changes or the phosphate remover.

[michalm]

Hi,

RO/DI filter ordered ! - The Filter Guys ;)

Thanks

Mike

[michalm]

Hello,

I just installed RO/DI system for my tank. Water is automatically exchange - 2 gallons per hour... I'm waiting 2-3 days and then I start again my Algae Scrubber.

Water from RO/DI is pure and I wonder if it's good for fish (Arowana and Stingrays). Maybe I should add something to the water ?

I have Eheim 2080 and MegaFlow 4 (Wet/Dry filter).

What do you think ?

[SantaMonica]

I don't think FW fish need any additives. Just pH and temp.

[michalm]

I will start Algae Scrubbers tomorrow.

But I still have high phosphates - 1,5-2ppm :((

[SantaMonica]

Yes, I don't think you have anything to remove P. The water changes were the only way, but when you stopped those, P accumulated. If the scrubber starts out correctly, you should get a black algae by the first 7 days.

[michalm]

After 2 day, zero algae on the screen... after 3 day i see some...

I'm waiting... ;)

[SantaMonica]

RODI also removes nitrate and phosphate that is in the top-off.

[michalm]

Well,

After 9 days... water in my tank starting to be green :(((((((

I see algae on the screen but it looks similar for what I had before. :(((((((((((

Aaaaaa !!!!

[SantaMonica]

Test your tank water for silicates again. You should keep a silicates test kit.

[michalm]

Test your tank water for silicates again. You should keep a silicates test kit.

I just bought a test kit: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem. ... ent=SC4143 (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=SC4143&child=SC4143&utm_source=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=SC4143)

Should I clean everything or wait couple more days ?

Thank you

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Let's see the screen.

[michalm]

I think that I will wait couple more days, because now, I see little different algae (in some place).

Thank you...

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_80.jpg

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_81.jpg

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_82.jpg

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_83.jpg

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_84.jpg

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_85.jpg

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_86.jpg

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_87.jpg

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_88.jpg

http://www.arowana.pl/santa/santa_89.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Yes let it grow. It's still mostly diatoms (from the silicates), which is why they are washing off and leaving the screen white. If the hair growth can get going, it will over power the diatoms. It's just a matter of getting the silicates lower... yours is higher than anyone else's I've seen.

Did you waterchange with the rodi? If not, the silicates stayed in the tank from before.

[michalm]

Hello,

Before I starting the Algae Scrubber, I'm waiting more than week with working RO filer. I didn't change all my water in the tank, but during a week water in my tank was changed 2 times. (2 gal per hour = 336 gal per week (1.86 size of tank per week).

Today I got a Silicate test. I made a sample test to make sure that i did everything correctly (sample water induced in test kit)... it shows me 6 mg/L (and it should be like that).

Then, I testing my tank water... It shows me that my silicate is very low, probably 0 mg/L... tomorrow I use a low test method to check a exact result.

Well... what can I do more... I lose hope...

Mike

[SantaMonica]

How did the last week of growth go?

[michalm]

How did the last week of growth go?

The same as previously... water green... and only powder... ;(

[SantaMonica]

Can you do a 50% water change with the rodi?

[michalm]

Can you do a 50% water change with the rodi?

I didn't stop my automatic water exchange... It it working non stop... that mean every week water is changing 2 times in my tank.

[SantaMonica]

Ok let's find out the new silicates test result

[SantaMonica]

I have another idea:

Turn one of the scrubber lights off completely

On the other light, remove one of the bulbs, so only one bulb works.

Reduce the timer on this light down to 12 hours.

Do this for one week, and let's see if the bright green diatoms can still hold on when the light is this low.

[SantaMonica]

Also, reduce the flow to as low as it can go, so long as it still covers the whole screen.

[michalm]

OK, I was little busy today. I'll check silicate tomorrow.

Well, I can try to run scrubber one more time... but... well... I'm not sure that it helps. I'm trying so many times... and after I'm spending minimum 3 hours to clean it ;))))).

If you think that it can help me, I will do it, of course :)))) In the other hand i start scrubber on 18 Apr 2010... what about lamps ? They are still good ?

Thank you...

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Lamps are fine.

Why so long to clean?

[michalm]

OK, I did a test (low method) - it is about 0,5 mg/L...

The green powder that produced algae scrubber clog filter media. Every time I have to clean all pads. Clean very well black box (scrubber box) and etc... ;)

What do you suggest ? Try to run it like you said before ? :

"Turn one of the scrubber lights off completely

On the other light, remove one of the bulbs, so only one bulb works.

Reduce the timer on this light down to 12 hours.

Do this for one week, and let's see if the bright green diatoms can still hold on when the light is this low."

Thank you !

[SantaMonica]

Yes do those things.

I am currently testing a nano scrubber on a FW tank with 3.0 silicates, and it is growing long green hairs.

Can you mail me a sample of the water?

[SantaMonica]

And I have another idea... Feed lots lots lots. This will put a LOT of nitrate and phosphate into the water, but will not add silicates. This should cause thick algae to grow instead of the diatoms. This scrubber will indeed work...

[michalm]

Yes do those things.

I am currently testing a nano scrubber on a FW tank with 3.0 silicates, and it is growing long green hairs.

Can you mail me a sample of the water?

well... if it is growing in your place... that's mean... silicates is not a problem...

Yes, I can mail you a water... PM me please, how much water do you need and sent me a address...

[michalm]

And I have another idea... Feed lots lots lots. This will put a LOT of nitrate and phosphate into the water, but will not add silicates. This should cause thick algae to grow instead of the diatoms. This scrubber will indeed work...

50 gold fish... gone... and 15 shrimps...

but, you must remember that I have automatic water exchange and it is hard to get a high level of nitrate... i'll check today all the parameters... and I let you know...

Thanks

[michalm]

Tests:

NO3 - 10 mg/L
PH - 6.5
Phosphate - 0.5-1mg/L
NO2 and Ammo - 0 mg/L

Thank you...

[SantaMonica]

You removed 3 of the bulbs too, correct?

[michalm]

You removed 3 of the bulbs too, correct?

Yes, only one is working... and flow is set to minimum...

I already sent you a two bottles... one with water and one with sand... if you have place to check the sand, i'll pay for that... maybe the sand is the main problem... I don't know... I'm trying to check everything.

Thank you !

Mike

[SantaMonica]

You are still topping of with rodi?

[michalm]

You are still topping of with rodi?

Yes, all the time...

[michalm]

Hello,

OK, to day is 9th day that I started Scrubber... The screen is light green, lighter than before... water is not that green like before, but on the bottom black box I again see a green powder...:(((

Turn off everything ?

Did you have my sample of water and gravel ?

Thank you ?

[SantaMonica]

Good and bad news...

That was your water and sand? I had ordered several bottles of liquid products at the same time, and thought that they sent me the wrong stuff, and threw it away. I did not see a name or anything in the box. Dang... so much for that.

Good news is that I re-read all the info. Remember, diatoms must have silicates to grow...



Tank:
Silica (SiO2-3) ............................. High.............................................. 3.0

Tap Water:
Silica (SiO2-3) .............................Good .............................................0.3


Now, where is the silica coming from, if not from the tap water? And especially now, you top off with RODI (0 silicates), and you still have silicates...



OK, I did a test (low method) - it is about 0,5 mg/L...


I think it might be coming from the sand:


I have 3M Colorquartz T Grade (White).


But you say:


well... if it is growing in your place... that's mean... silicates is not a problem...

But not true because diatoms must have silicates, every time. It's just that my test tank has different nutrients than yours.

I think the sand is putting silicates into the water, and the scrubber is removing them to make diatoms. There is an easy way to test this: Put some sand into some RODI or distilled water bottle and let it sit a few days, then measure the silicates. They should still be zero. If not, then it's the SAND!

[michalm]

I already sent you a two bottles... one with water and one with sand... if you have place to check the sand, i'll pay for that... maybe the sand is the main problem... I don't know... I'm trying to check everything.

Thank you !

Mike

Yea... ;( I sent you two bottles ;(((( and my name was in the box in two different places ;((( and I wrote you a message (see above)...

well... I'm a little desperate... I already spent so much on the whole this project... and nothing... I will not change a gravel if I'm not sure that it can be a problem. Silicate in my tank is less than 0.5, I'm not sure that this can be a problem. It is a normal range... in most of tank...

I can sent you one more time the bottle of my water and sand/gravel... ;( but... promise me that you will not throw away it... because for me it waste time and money...

[SantaMonica]

You can save the mailing then. If it's not the sand, then the only other thing would be to try additives like the fellow said earlier. It's just hard to believe that your RODI and food are somehow different than everyone elses in the world. I think it has to be the sand, but if it's not worth changing it out, even if it were to fix the problem, then unfortunately this looks like the very first and only time that a scrubber would not grow correctly.

I'm sure you could sell the scrubber quickly on here if you wanted to; it's still basically brand new.

[michalm]

You can save the mailing then. If it's not the sand, then the only other thing would be to try additives like the fellow said earlier. It's just hard to believe that your RODI and food are somehow different than everyone elses in the world. I think it has to be the sand, but if it's not worth changing it out, even if it were to fix the problem, then unfortunately this looks like the very first and only time that a scrubber would not grow correctly.

I'm sure you could sell the scrubber quickly on here if you wanted to; it's still basically brand new.

I do not want to sell my scrubber... I just do not have hope that this will work in my place... I was trying so many ways... and nothing... still the same... powder... I spending lots of time... and money...

And I'm sad that you ask me for something, I told you that I did it... and than you tell me that you throw it away... sad...

OK, I will remove all gravel/sand from my tank... I let you know, how is going...

Thanks

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Test the gravel first, using a bottle of RODI or distilled.

[michalm]

Test the gravel first, using a bottle of RODI or distilled.

Too late :) I just finished remove all gravel... ufff... and cleaned everything (screen, filter media etc)... I poured a boiling water into black box and on the screen...

I'm waiting one week and then I will start scrubber again...

I will test water with graver tomorrow... it is too late...

Thanks

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Ok, that was the last possible thing, so let's see how it goes.

You can still do a bottle test, though.

You might want to put some bio-media back in, like some bio balls into the filter sock.

[michalm]

OK, I'll start Scrubber on Monday... and I turn OFF my second filter (Eheim).

Today I'll test a sand/graver... - silicate and etc...

[michalm]

Hello,

I tested gravel/sand and water in my tank. Water in tank have 0,3-0,5 silicate... gravel/sand 2-3.

I still do not like that in tank is 0,3-0,5 silicate. To make sure that nothing change my water I turn off my second filter Eheim 2080. Inside I have some media that I'm not sure of their quality - Media are from "Azoo" and I bought it very cheep in DrsFostersand... online store. It is strange but now I can't find it anywhere - maybe there was something wrong with them ?

I'm waiting one week more, and will do the test again...

Thank you

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Did you pull out the sand?

What is doing your bio filtering?

Is the scrubber on?

I don't understand how you are testing silicates.

[michalm]

Did you pull out the sand?

Yes of course, I wrote on Jul 21 that I remove all sand/gravel. All sand I remove from tank to the plastic container. I took some water that still stays with sand and tested it. (2-3 silicate).


What is doing your bio filtering?

I have bio balls in my Wet/Dry filter. Why you ask ?


Is the scrubber on?

No, like I said before, I was waiting one week to make sure that water in my tank will changed, and yesterday I tested a water again. Water in tank have 0,3-0,5 silicate", that why I turn off my second filter, because I'm not sure that my filter media in my second filter are OK., and that why I will waiting one more week to make sure that in my tank is 0 silicate.
And after that I will start scrubber.

Thank you ;)

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Wanted to make sure you still had bio filtering.

Yes the cannister should go. I thought you already had removed it. You can use it for carbon, if ever needed.

So the gravel is where the silicates were coming from. What name/type was it again?

[michalm]

So the gravel is where the silicates were coming from. What name/type was it again?

I'm not 100% sure that it can be a gravel/sand ONLY, because first time (when sand was in the tank) my silicate was about 0,5 mg/L... after removing sand and waiting one week to exchange water test show me 0,3-0,5 - it is not a big difference. I will check water parameter for one week, last time (The Eheim Filter is turn off... I clean it, and I will change a media filter - I think that can be something wrong with Azoo filter media)...then I will be 100% sure that this was ONLY graver or maybe the filter media as well.

Thank you

PS: 3M Colorquartz T Grade - sand

Mike

[michalm]

Today I wanted to start again Scrubber...
but...
First I tested a Silicate, and my Silicate is 2 !!! I check again... and the result is again 2 :((((

I don't know if my test is bad or there is something in my setup that gives me so high silicate. I remove everything... sand etc... I even change a filter media in my Eheim. What else ?

Sometimes I add baking soda to increase my PH... but baking soda should not affect.

any advice ? buy a new silicate test ? ;)

[chrissu]

It may be coming from your water source. Try testing your top off water for silicates. Here is a detailed read on silicates http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f45/silicates-125149.html#post1065374

[SantaMonica]

I thought he was using his new rodi

[piratefish]

[quote="michalm"Sometimes I add baking soda to increase my PH... but baking soda should not affect.)[/quote]


Doesn't Baking soda raises Alk and not PH . I believe it will slightly lower it?

[michalm]

It may be coming from your water source. Try testing your top off water for silicates. Here is a detailed read on silicates http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f45/silicates-125149.html#post1065374

Thank you for link. This explain why I still have silicate. I'll try to explain it below.

[michalm]

I thought he was using his new rodi
Yes I'm using only RO/DI filter to change water.

Today I took 4 tests:

1. To check that test is working OK, I tested a Silicate Reference - it should be 6mg/L, and like you see on picture it came out ok.
2. Tap Water after first stage of filter (Polyspun and Carbon Filtration - GE product) - it is about 1.5mg/L
3. After RO/DI filter - like you see it is 0mg/L
4. My tank water - 2mg/L

My wife told me (checked my results, to make sure that I'm right) that water in my tank (4) is little more blue than from tap water (2).

Like you see even my RO/DI filtration (automatic water exchange) has been working for more than 2 months (non stop - every week is exchanged twice) I still have silicate. The link http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f4 ... ost1065374 (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f45/silicates-125149.html#post1065374) that CHRISSU put it here explain why I still have a silicate in my tank.
Well, what do you recommended ? Change 100% water in my tank at once in my tank using only RO/DI water ? Or maybe I should change 50-70% water and something to reduce silicate ? Can you recommend anything?

Should I clean my filter including ALL the pipes again?

Thank you for helping ;) I do not give up ;)))))))))))))) !

[SantaMonica]

Besides fish, what is in your tank and sump?

[michalm]

Besides fish, what is in your tank and sump?

Only one driftwood and 4 anubias plant. Driftwood was boil in water with salt for 5 hours.

Wet/Dry Filter - Bio Balls, Filter Pads - http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/p ... catid=4231 (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+4231&pcatid=4231) and http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/p ... catid=4353 (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+4353&pcatid=4353)

Eheim Filter - Filter Pads like above and Ehfisubstrat Pro - http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/p ... catid=8983 (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+8983&pcatid=8983)

I found Silicate Remover (i do not know which one choose)
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/p ... 4213&r=797 (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+4213&pcatid=4213&r=797)
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/p ... 4200&r=797 (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+4200&pcatid=4200&r=797)
http://www.finsdepot.com/product/New-252746576
http://www.marvelousproducts.com/Produc ... te-11.74oz (http://www.marvelousproducts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Chemi-Pure-Elite-11.74oz)
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/23 ... a_7c237404 (http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/237404/product.web?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c268_a_7c713_a_7c23 7404)
http://www.epetproducts.com/index.php?m ... ae35bf2a75 (http://www.epetproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3014&zenid=1a97e02cdd0abbb81a2056ae35bf2a75)

[SantaMonica]

I wonder if there is any silica in wood. I don't think so.

You removed the sand, correct?

[michalm]

I wonder if there is any silica in wood. I don't think so.

You removed the sand, correct?

yes i did... i wrote about it here 3 or more times...

Did you read this article ? In my opinion it explain why in my tank still is silicate... and driftwood is not a problem in my opinion...

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f4 ... ost1065374 (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f45/silicates-125149.html#post1065374)

Read this please, and tell what are you think about it...

Thank you

[SantaMonica]

Yes I read it, but you said your rodi was testing 0 silicates.

The only thing left is your food.

[michalm]

I don't think that this can be food. Frozen shrimp or live superworms ? Hikari or a live Cricket ?

My english is not perfect but after reading this: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f4 ... ost1065374 (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f45/silicates-125149.html#post1065374)
i think that I still have silicate because it constantly renew.

Today, I just buy a Silicate remover - PhosGuard - Phosphate and Silicate Control - SEACHEM. I use it and we will see what is going on

Thank you for helping, one more time...

[michalm]

Hello,

I was testing in many ways my water, my food. I adding couple times silicate removal. It took me everything more than month that why I stopped writing here.

Finally I think that I know why I have high level of silicate. It looks like this is a food problem. Look at the pictures. On the left side is a superworms - main food for may Arowana fish. One the right side is a frozen shrimp - main food for my stingrays. Both have a high level of silicate. What do you think, it can by true ? Superworms I always buy at Smith and Foster online store. Shrimps are from Legal See Food Co.
Why in frozen and live food we can find so high level of silicate ?

Thank you !

[SantaMonica]

How high?

[michalm]

Now, my water in tank have 0.3-0.4 because I was using a silicate remover.

The food (superworms and shrimps) that I tested using RO/DI water have 5 or even 7...

[michalm]

Hello,

I still using silicate remover and do not feed superworms and shrimps... only hikari food and live gold fish.

The silicate is almost 0 !

I was staring yesterday Scrubber !

PS: What do you think about silicate in superworms and frozen shrimp ?

[SantaMonica]

Can you post a pic of the packaging of that food? Or a link.

[michalm]

Here you are :)

Package of a shrimp and ... ;)))) home for superworms :))) with oatmeals...

[michalm]

Two days ago, and today I made a more tests.

What I got !
1. Water from RO/DI filter - 0 ppm
2. Water from tank - < 0.5 ppm
3. Frozen shrimp - 4 ppm
4. Superworms - it is hard to say because of cloudy water but I think that it can be 0-1ppm

Thank you

[SantaMonica]

Maybe you can try a different food for a month.

[michalm]

Yes, I did it... I stop feeding frozen shrimp and superworms couple days ago...

Now they get ONLY Hikari for Arowana and Stingrays...

I let you know how scrubber is growing...

Thank you !

[michalm]

Hello,

What do you think ?... it will work or not ? 6th day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYVAFQz60Ug

[SantaMonica]

When you lift it up and out... it looks good, like it's starting to grow long green hairs. Do you know what N and P are?

[michalm]

When you lift it up and out... it looks good, like it's starting to grow long green hairs. Do you know what N and P are?

Do you mean Nitrate and Phosphate ?

Nitrate - 10ppm
Phosphate 1 or even 2 :( ppm

Should I clean screen now or wait couple days ?

Thank you

Mike

[SantaMonica]

Wait 5 days and do another lift-out video.

You know it's working if the hairs start flowing off the bottom of the screen.

[michalm]

Hello,

after next 6 days... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov37gGV4gWk

When I touch screen pieces of algae are dropped, detach from screen easy...

Silicate - 0.5ppm

[SantaMonica]

Ok much better! Much darker like new screens should be with high nutrients.

Clean it all off of the screens, and grow another 7 days.

[michalm]

Ok much better! Much darker like new screens should be with high nutrients.

Clean it all off of the screens, and grow another 7 days.

Do you mean clean screen removing all algae ?

[SantaMonica]

Yes.

[michalm]

Yes.

OK, Thank you :) I'll make video for 7 days.

[michalm]

Hello,

Unfortunately, I got exactly the same what I had couple days ago...

Dark algae, when I touch screen pieces of algae are dropped from the screen very easy easy... some hair on the bottom...

Any advice ?

[SantaMonica]

This is how it was supposed to start out in the first place. Clean it all, and let it grow another 7 days.

[michalm]

OK :)

[michalm]

Well...

I gave up... after 6 months it is not make sense to testing more time... This is something with my water, silicate problem, and I can't remove it from my tank.

Thanks for everyone... for helping !!!

Mike

[michalm]

Hi,

Santa you can close this thread :)

Thank you very much !

[SantaMonica]

Thanks for trying.

[Floridays]

You can't give up. It appears that your scrubbers has finally started like it was supposed to.

Come on Keep Trying You will get it.


REMEMBER THIS IS A HOBBY
WE ALL DO THIS FOR FUN AND EXPERIENCE

[misoldier06]

mmmaaannnn i set here for an hour got to the climax and was let down.... dang it... well i hope all goes well with his future aquarium endeavors.

[kerry]

I know this is a very old thread but, I will post anyway just because I read through the whole thing to not find out what the solution was!!! I read this because I am going to build a scrubber for my 150G FW tank because the scrubbers on my three SW tanks are the best thing I have ever done for them thanks to SANTA MONICA!!!!!!! I think he was very close to a solution for his problem. I also think changing tank water over twice (200%) a week was to much and removing nutrients and the algae needed. Then he switched to RO/DI which now removes the minerals like iron from the water further hindered the algae growth. I use and 200GPD RO/DI set-up for my place but I pull my FW water before the RO filter stage. By doing this I am only using the first three mechanical filters to remove partials and Chemicals (like chlorine and chloramine ect.) so this way I do not have to add any treatment garbage to my FW. It still retains most of the minerals though. You use the full filtering for SW because the salt mix has all the minerals thats need to be put back into the water to make it suitable. I do not have minerals to dose back into my FW so I bypass the last stages. This method works for my FW!
Any way, I wonder if the silica would have been used up if he would have stop doing such large qty's of water changes and switched to a food low or without silica? It seems it would be like fuel and start to run out eventually. He sure has a strange situation thats for sure!
Has anyone had any experience or pointers for a FW scrubber? I am planning on starting a build this weekend if I have time. I think its pretty straight forward but, if anyone has advice about the FW scrubbers I would sure appreciate being able to avoid any pitfalls.

[SantaMonica]

His was the only scrubber problem that was never figured out. Algae grew, but it was diatoms which washed off. Could not figure out where the silicone was coming from.

Start a new thread about FW feedback.

[kerry]

Its for sure a strange situation. Also, I am the same person as Kc Mopar on the MyFishTank site. I have posted on the Scrubber page there and have gotten answers to my question by you. Thank you for that Sir!!!!

[michalm]

WOW ! Thank you for refresh this thread :)

Yep, for now, I quiet with Scrubber. I sold everything via this website ;)
But, when I'll move to new house (for 2 year) I'm planing tank that will have 750gal and in 100% I will start Scrubber again :)

Now my two tanks look that:
Tank one - 2 Black Arowana; Tank two - 5 Stingrays True Hystrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjOlDKroH4w

My new DIY tank and Sump (I am proud) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-AfIZgWCw

My final project about Automatic Water Exchange (sorry, it is by polish)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvS25hKQVA
Now, I remove Ro/Di system. Water was to "clean" - pure water. I use only two stage standard filtration. So far so good.

I still have problem with Nitrate (NO3) and Algae ;(((... I don't check Silicate...

[kerry]

WOW, You have great looking tanks and quality craftsmanship in your work. Congratulations on a job well done. Are you still using the RO/DI filter for your FW tanks? I have a 200 GPD unit for my SW water but do not use the full filter for my FW. I tap into the line with a TEE fitting just after the first three mechanical sediment filters. I feel that FW fish need the minerals that are in the water naturally so this is why I do not use the final product of the filter for my FW. I am planning a scrubber build this weekend or next (if I do not have time) for my 150G FW tank. It has 6 Jack Dempsey fish and a plecostomus so it builds 40-80 PPM nitrate in a week. I do two 40% water changes per week just to keep it at 20PPM. So I am hoping a scrubber will work just as good on this FW build as it has on my SW. Next build will be my 125G with three Oscars that I also do twice a week as well. The last build will be a 75G African tank that I just do one huge 70% change per week.

[michalm]

OK, Now I know from where I got Silicate. I go to my City Water Department and they show me this:

Silica (SiO2) - from 1750 to 2580 UG/L !!!!

That mean, even I was using RO/DI system silicate was too high to eliminate it at all from my tank.

:((((

[kerry]

I would think the silica would be used up if you can get way from changing water. Start the tank with ro/di and the scrubber from day one. Use dead shrimp instead of live fish or corals to get the scrubber and tank established. I would assume the silica will get used up by the algae in a short time as long as you DO NOT DO ANY WATER CHANGES. Just keep enough dead peeled shrimp in the tank to keep the nitrate up to a readable level. Maybe a coupe a week or so? Maybe Santa Monica will have a better solution.

[SantaMonica]

I looked at our water report and it does not list silicates.

[kerry]

I thought algae used silicate?? Is this correct? If so, just keeping the tank up and going with dead shrimp or similar with a scrubber would eventually eliminate the silicate if water changes were not ever performed, right? Wrong?

[SantaMonica]

No, algae in scrubbers do not use silicates.