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Floyd R Turbo
08-31-2010, 02:13 PM
Read the entire Reef Sanctuary thread. Jumping on the ATS bus.

So it's been a little slow at work, and since I have AutoCAD and my dad makes acrylic items for antique dealers (display cabinets, holders, etc) I decided to design an ATS for a customer (or 2) of mine. These JPEGs are a little bug but I didn't want to lose resolution. Before I had my Dad start working on this bad boy, I figured I'd post it here and see if I missed anything.

Here's the back panel and the interior framing

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-08-31%20ATS/ATSRearPanelFrame.jpg

The front access panel and assembly

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-08-31%20ATS/ATSFrontAccessPanel.jpg

And the front and side assembly

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-08-31%20ATS/ATSAssembly.jpg

Here's the sump cabinet, 40G breeder, overflow plumbing, and ATS assembly.

Front View

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-08-31%20ATS/ATSSumpCabinetDiagramFrontView.jpg

End View

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-08-31%20ATS/ATSSumpCabinetDiagramEndView.jpg

The usable screen area is 20" x 6+" for 120 sq in. There are 4 F24T5HO lamps, 2 on each side, and I found the deal of the month on this one, from Avant Garde'n, which specializes in hydroponics. 4 pack of 3000K red/bloom lamps for $20, 8 pack for $32. Kick-a!! http://www.aghydroponics.com/T5-Fluores ... -s/379.htm (http://www.aghydroponics.com/T5-Fluorescent-Grow-Tubes-s/379.htm). Incidentally, I discussed what I am designing with him and he was totally stoked about the idea, and mentioned a nearby university that was doing some kind of study on aquatic plants that had the ability to absorb heavy metals. This idea might get some heavyweight backing sometime soon!

I am using a Fulham Workhorse 5 Ballast. I am using Ice Cap end caps and standoffs, and Sunlight Supply TEK II T5 Reflectors. I marked the distance from center of bulb on one side to center of bulb on the other side as just over 6", but they're HO and the TEK II reflectors are top notch, so I figure this should be OK.

The overflow is designed with ease of maintenance in mind. From the bottom of the tank, there is a union to disconnect the entire assembly. Then it goes into a 90, and then into a series of 3 stacked tees. Under the first one is a shutoff valve that can be opened to allow the water to flow while cleaning the screen (ignore the placement, it's just representative at this point). The next tee up feeds the screen tube. The next tee will have an emergency clog overflow pipe running back into the sump, and the top end of the tee will remain open for a siphon break, so if for some reason the flow is enough to start going through the emergency flow, it wouldn't stop minimal flow from the screen. As I'm writing this, I'm thinking that might not be necessary since the screen itself would provide a siphon break. Hmmmm...

Anyways, from the tee to the screen tube is another union to disconnect the screen. The front panel of the unit locks in place and is removeable- the lights mount to it, so you would just open the bypass shutoff and remove the front panel and set it aside, unscrew the union, and lift the screen out. At this point, you could swish it in the sump if you wanted the pods in your DT. Then you do your duty with the screen and replace, reconnect, cover, open the disconnect, and you're off and running again.

So...any problems that anyone sees?

EDIT: One of things that I have to verify are the current flow rate into the sump. Right now, the pump is on the far right side and has a 3 foot horizontal return component that will be eliminated with the new design, plus a little less head pressure from a higher sump level, so my flow reading I will get will probably be low, but will at least tell me if I my screen is correctly sized. Also, I have to verify all the dimensions of the PVC parts, I estimated based on prior builds for filter sock systems and some quick measurements.

SantaMonica
08-31-2010, 06:49 PM
Looks all good. Will like to see it built.

iggy
09-22-2010, 05:14 PM
With low pressure drain and high pressure return I can imagine a problem. Flow back may require more than 3 feet of head pressure to be quick enough. Bypass can compensate by cracking and reducing flow to screen.

A sure way to make this design succeed is to have an open return over a single sided screen that is pinned up reducing the need for a return pipe that may restrict flow and would also even out flow across the screen.

Be careful if yo turn on for first time!!!!

Floyd R Turbo
09-22-2010, 05:55 PM
With low pressure drain and high pressure return I can imagine a problem. Flow back may require more than 3 feet of head pressure to be quick enough. Bypass can compensate by cracking and reducing flow to screen.

A sure way to make this design succeed is to have an open return over a single sided screen that is pinned up reducing the need for a return pipe that may restrict flow and would also even out flow across the screen.

I don't quite understand what you're getting at. I've seen dozens of examples with low pressure drain feeding the screen and high pressure return. How is mine any different? CFM is CFM, high pressure through 1/2" pipe or low pressure through 1" pipe, it's still CFM. Cut open the slot in the pipe to the correct size and there will be no problem with flow rate over the screen because the pressure will drop given a larger slot width. Why would I need a single sided screen? This design pretty much mimics SM's black-box design, so that would mean his design would have a fundamental flaw.

Am I missing something?

Floyd R Turbo
09-22-2010, 06:40 PM
Are you talking about the drain below the screen? That's a 1" bulkhead, meaning it needed a 1-3/4" hole drilled for it, so the inner diameter is large enough to screw in an adapter to a 1" pipe. So the inner diameter of the inner threading is well over 1".

Also the incoming water pressure from the DT overflow is nowhere near enough for full 1" diameter column of water 100% of the time. I think I now see what you are talking about, you are referring to the fact that the overflow pipe from the DT has several feet of head pressure, while the outflow pipe from the ATS to the sump does not. I think I see what you mean now, if I am understanding you correctly. In this system, the overflow has a stand pipe in it about 10" high. Currently I run a 1" ID pipe and split that in 2 to 2 filter socks. Most of the time, only one of the pipes has water flowing, and the other just spits occasionally. It took me a while to figure out why, but one side is about 1/8" higher at the peak which results in a siphon effect - one pipe fills up most of the way and then strangely sucks all the water through that side. If I drilled anti-siphon holes, there would probably be even flow. The end result however is that the one side that always runs is never really running "full", so I don't worry too much about the lack of pressure in the ATS drain.

But I'll definitely keep an eye on it!!!

May need to add a second drain...if it becomes a problem.

BTW, it's complete - my Dad made up 2 of these (for 2 different systems). I haven't put the end caps/standoffs on yet, and I have to dry-fit the PVC on the tank before doing the final glue. What sucks is that I have to drain & remove the sump, put the new one in and dry fit everything, then put the old system back in place so the glue can dry for 24 hours before firing it up for the official test run!! I'm thinking I might do a full wet run with the pipe dry-fitted to make sure the slot is right and everything.

Floyd R Turbo
09-25-2010, 11:05 AM
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-23%20ATS/IMG_8545.jpg

With front cover removed

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-23%20ATS/IMG_8546.jpg

How it goes on

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-23%20ATS/IMG_8548.jpg

Edge support for sitting on the tank (40 breeder)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-23%20ATS/IMG_8551.jpg

The slot where the plumbing goes through

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-23%20ATS/IMG_8547.jpg

Bulkhead to drain into the sump

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-23%20ATS/IMG_8550.jpg


The next couple steps involve taking out the old sump so I can dry-fit the PVC with the new sump in place, then putting the old system back on, and then gluing the pipe. I have to attach the light fixtures to the acrylic, then wire up the lighting to the ballast and mount the ballast on a heat sink, and put it all together for a test-fire up. I might need to add some up/down baffles into the sump to take care of microbubbles also.

SantaMonica
09-25-2010, 12:58 PM
You'll probably want another drain on the other end. If you get thick growth like mine, the rushing water to get to one end will detach some of the thick algae. Dividing the water into two slow flows will allow more algae to stay put.

Floyd R Turbo
09-25-2010, 01:49 PM
I wish I had known that when my Dad was here, he cut the holes. I can probably do it no problem, but wasn't planning on it. Thanks for the input. That reason for the second hole makes sense.

iggy
09-25-2010, 06:58 PM
Looks great.

Either cut PVC slit in pipe with 1/8" kerf to make sure drain is low pressure and does not back up and second drain is a must. Just didn't want a flood.

Floyd R Turbo
09-29-2010, 08:02 PM
I have a couple screen related questions. I am going to use a double screen, I'm going to epoxy 2 screens together for double thickness. Each screen is about 1/16" thick so the finished product should be 1/8" thick. So I should probably cut the slot to 3/16", correct?

Second - any special epoxy to use to adhere the screens? I was planning on using standard epoxy from the hardware store, and spreading a very thin layer on one side, then pressing them together between a couple boards or something with paper inbetween so they don't glue to the boards. Then whatever paper sticks would come off when I rough up the screen with the hole saw bit and rinse.

Sound like the right idea?

SantaMonica
09-29-2010, 08:06 PM
I'm recommending a single screen for everyone now. Less chance for error. But if you want double, I don't thing epoxy will stick. You need fishing line or tie wraps.

Floyd R Turbo
10-09-2010, 10:21 PM
I'm about 95% done and will post pics soon of the build.

One of the last steps I'm working on is the light blocker. I got the idea to use a couple layers of blank, developed X-ray film and punch holes in them with a paper punch, then run the zip-tie through the holes and use those to block the light at the top of the screen. This seemed like a great idea, because it's flexible so I could have it right up against the screen and cut slits in it, which will probably serve to also even out the flow.

But is it safe? I know there are plenty of chemicals used in the development process, after cutting the film into strips, my hands smell (same smell you get from 35mm film negative). Is there something I can do to rinse the film? Should I try something else??

Floyd R Turbo
10-09-2010, 10:40 PM
An additional note - I hadn't rinsed the film. I just did that (washed it with Dawn) and the smell is pretty much gone. I will probably let is soak overnight in RO water just to make sure, but I think it's ok now. Still would like any comments from anyone familiar with the film development process and how safe/not safe this idea would be.

Floyd R Turbo
10-12-2010, 07:20 PM
I found something better, got this at a hobby store

it's perfect, quite thick but still flexible, and completely opaque. The best thing? It cost $1.91 with tax.

So anyways, here's the rest of my ATS build, which is installed and running

dry fitting the PVC

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8601.jpg

installed and wired the lights

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8693.jpg

Screen (before roughing up)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8700.jpg

Heat sink

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8707.jpg

Power & heat test

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8703.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8704.jpg

flow test

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8705.jpg

Ballast & heat sink wired & installed

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8715.jpg

PVC overflow

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8711.jpg

Bad Boy in action

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8710.jpg

The system

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8709.jpg

outflow pipes

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8713.jpg

emergency overflow

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8712.jpg

which has since been shortened - it was flowing initially, due to increased flow (probably 10-20%) from cleaning the pump and shortening the hose (who knew) so it blew out all the air and caused a siphon. I closed the post-pump shutoff about 1/4 turn (of the 1/4 it can turn, so maybe 20 degrees) and that stopped the flow.

The screen flow was initially uneven, but has since evened out. I think I need to add slots across the slit to let particles through also, will do when I install the blocker. Seed screen from IA coming on Thursday.

Also I removed the outflow tubes because it was 'blowing' ever once in a while and making a mess. Instead, a 90 to horizontal pipe and another 90 to straight up. Much better. Just have lots of micro bubbles but from what I've read on RC, it's a myth that they're bad. Got some more LR in trade and put in sump for now, it actually seems to help collect the bubbles. Still, I put the foam on the pump intake. Can pods still get through that?

SantaMonica
10-12-2010, 07:45 PM
It's going to be a very strong scrubber.

I wouldn't cound on pods getting through foam; certainly not bigger ones like amphipods or stars. See if you can move pipe around first.

Floyd R Turbo
10-12-2010, 07:58 PM
Not that this tank needs a 'strong' scrubber, Nitrates have been 0 for 6 months, it's established for more than 2 years, phosphates were 0.03 to 0.1 (salifert) but have risen to about 0.25 since removing the skimmer (about a week ago) and nitrates now 0.5 (salifert). There's no nuisance algae either. CUC is very strong.

As for the bubbles, I am thinking I can make up/downs with glass or PVC and wedge them in place with foam on the sides/bottom instead of siliconing in place. Also thought about putting a large piece of foam on the ATS outflow, hollowed out on top and with slots on the bottom about 4-5 inches below the water line so that the water & pods will flow down unimpeded.

I have a bunch of LR I got in trade for some of the xenias in there now, and I noticed that there are lots of bubble sticking to them, so maybe setting up a LR wall in the sump would work too?

SantaMonica
10-12-2010, 08:16 PM
Anything that works.

Once your phosphate comes down, you'll be able to feed much more too.

Floyd R Turbo
10-12-2010, 09:21 PM
Since I have 2 types of Xenias, Red Sea Pumping/pulsing and Waving Hand Anthelia, how soon should I be worried about getting those out? Will the Anthelia be OK or will they die too? I don't want to have the Xenias in there and die and possibly take down a bunch of other stuff with them. I read that can happen - they emit a toxin when they die off?

SantaMonica
10-12-2010, 11:24 PM
I have not heard of any toxin before. Mine have always just slowly withered away. But if you increase the feeding enough (5 to 10 times), they will stay alive because you will be basically overpowering the scrubber and causing nutients to be higher than they would normally be with a scrubber (xenia, mushrooms, zoo's, and leathers love higher nutrients).

Floyd R Turbo
10-13-2010, 09:11 AM
Well, I have all of those in this tank. Am I going to need to do any kind of supplemental feeding for the mushrooms, zoas, and leathers also or will those also suffer? That's news to me - I thought the Xenias were all that would really be affected.

Will the Anthelia (waving hand) sufffer the same fate as the pulsing Xenia? I've read that they prefer pristine water conditions, so my guess is no. I've been told they're considered to be in the same family (a type of Xenia)

SantaMonica
10-13-2010, 05:11 PM
It's all just a matter of degree. If you scrub strong, but feed strong, you'll be able to keep the same softies as if you fed light but scrubbed light. The difference is, by feeding strong all your other corals (and small fish) get much more food (10 time more). You also have the option of liquid coral food, preferably continuously. That'll put lots of nitrate and phosphate into the water for the softies.

Floyd R Turbo
10-13-2010, 07:20 PM
I understand what you're saying that if I feed a lot more, that will dirty up the water more and the corals will get more phos and nitrate. Maybe I should reprhase the question. If I tune the scrubber in moderately (right now it's only on reverse cycle, from about 4pm to about 7am) and he is currently feeding about 1 cube of brine shrimp and 1 cube of nori every other day, with occasional feedings of pellet food when a client's kid want to feed them (it's in a dentist's office). Since I've added many more fish, I think he's feeding them a bit more liberally, but overall still relatively sparingly.

I'm still struggling with a way to ask a question and get some kind of definitive answer. You say that softies, zoas, leathers, and xenia like water that is a little dirtier. So in the extreme case where you have no fish whatsoever, just a clean-up-crew in an established tank, would these types of corals not survive without some kind of supplementation? Maybe my question is not specific to scrubbers, but rather to the needs for corals. I guess what I understood from reading so much about ATS vs skimmers/refugium/etc was that the scrubber takes out what is bad and leaves in what the corals prefer for 'food'. Now I'm finding out that it is not only taking out what Xenias need to survive (and I was prepared to frag out the Xenias to others) but now I find out that the leathers, softies, mushrooms and zoas could struggle, all of which are abundant in this system! This is kind of frustrating to find this out now, but I'm glad I did before they all started withering away.

I guess I had the understanding that most coral growth is slowed or halted in the presence of just about any detectable level of phosphate. The scrubber would remove this, leading to healthier growth, is what I understood. Same thing with Nitrate. So what needs/prefers the super-clean water? I'm hoping it's the really super-cool and expensive LPS/SPS kind because if that's the case, I could totally live with that. I would be more than willing to get rid of leather and softies, etc over time if that's the case.

Here's the tank for reference

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-13/IMG_8527.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-13/IMG_8530.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-13/IMG_8529.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-09-13/IMG_8528.jpg

SantaMonica
10-13-2010, 08:02 PM
Without a doubt, LPS/SPS do best in low nutrient, high food water. Softies like the ones you have like a bit nore nutrients in the water. In my case, zoo's do great and multiply, mushrooms stay the same size, but I can't keep xenia. But I'm not trying to either. I'm doing feeding tests with double scrubbing power. All you need to do is remove a bulb or two, or use less lighting time, or feed a lot more, until you find a balance.

Floyd R Turbo
10-14-2010, 11:52 AM
I guess it will take some time to balance the system out. So basically, if I test regularly for Nitrate and Phosphate, I would want to see a minimal amount of both in order for the Xenias to survive? Like 0.1-0.2 Nitrate and 0.03-0.10 phosphate for instance? The Xenias have been going gangbusters in 0 nitrate water for months, so I'm wondering if that is not necessarily a limiting factor.

Just some other observations, I was at the tank today. Inland screwed up again and didn't ship my seed screen, so I didn't get that installed. I did remove the screen from the tube (by the way, my bypass system works awesome) and the screen is showing what could be some brown algae growth already, but it could just be getting a little dirty also. However, it was not growing on the section of the screen that is inside to tube. It is growing right at the slot line. I didn't have time to add the blocker. What I did was take the dremel bit I used to cut the slot (which is actually a drywall cutter) and added a bunch of cutouts about 1/8-3/16" on alternating sides of the slot.

The water flow across the screen was very even before, and it didn't change that much. What is interesting is that the slot may have closed itself a bit, because the bit was pretty tight in the already but section (the original slot). What I was going for was 2 things, to relieve the pressure and to let larger particles through to prevent clogging. I think I achieved the latter, but when I reconnected it and opened the post-pump shutoff, it still flowed over the emergency spillway at about the same rate.

Here's the screen flow

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8717.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8718.jpg

Originally, it was even at the top, then streamed together into lines about 3" apart. So I guess it's past the initial 'break-in period'.

Seed screen (hopefully) will come tomorrow.

On other thing - I noticed that the tank kind of smells a little like dirty feet. Any possible explanation for that? Maybe it's that there is no longer a mechanical filter. I was changing 100 micron filter socks about every 6 days. One would fill all the way up until overflowing, and the other would get about 1/3 of the way due to a siphon effect that I never bothered to fix. So that's quite a bit of waste that is now staying in the system. I'm wondering if, because of that, there will be a time frame in which the system will go through a re-balancing. After recently reading the article about microbubbles, there was another section to the article about old tank syndrome in reef systems (which really had mainly to due with the timeframe needed to correctly establish a new SW tank). Sounds like changing things up a bit might not be a bad thing...

Floyd R Turbo
10-14-2010, 01:54 PM
After looking at a few other designs (again) I think I am safe to extend the cutouts along the slot quite a bit. I guess I'll go a little at a time until the flow maxes out and nothing comes through the emergency overflow with the post-pump valve all the way open.

Also, I thought of something else to help filter out the bubbles that wouldn't stop pods - BIO BALLS! Finally, a valid use for them. How big do the pods get that are on the screen? I'm guessing they vary from microscopic to big enough to not make it through pump intake foam?

SantaMonica
10-14-2010, 05:31 PM
Just experiment with the xenia and see what happens.

I don't recommend the IA seed pieces because they are not the best type of algae for filtering... you want green hair algae, not dark turf which blocks the light. When my screen grows turf, I scrape a hack saw blade across it to remove it.

The flow on the screen will fill in as the growth occurs. No need for a light blocker when you have acrylic walls.

I also don't recommend slots; the flow will be more even without them. Your pipe is too long to clog; plus you have an overflow anyways.

Your screen is growning normally to start. Will be green in a week.

Tank should not smell. Only smell should be like the ocean, if even that. See how it is in a week or two.

The pods you get are only 7-day-old baby copepods, because the cleaning kills them each week. They will not get stuck in bio balls.

Floyd R Turbo
10-14-2010, 07:26 PM
Well, I wish I had known that before getting IA to send the screen for the 3rd time - would have saved me $30.

So if the brown turf is the kind that all of these filters were originally designed with, why are they not the best? Is it just more effective with the green?

If I do end up using the seed screen, will I ever get the green hair algae growth, or will the red turf just take over completely?

SantaMonica
10-14-2010, 07:41 PM
Verticals were never "designed" for any type; it's just that green hair is what lets the most light and flow through. Green hair will overgrow the turf if things are going well. It's all in the faq.

Floyd R Turbo
10-15-2010, 09:03 AM
Well, I might as well use it since I have it. Arrived this morning, going up there over lunch to put in on.

Why don't I have to worry about the growth into the slot? How does having acrylic between the lights and the screens change things?

SantaMonica
10-15-2010, 09:11 AM
Because if it sprays from the slot, it's contained:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJxzeAgOS_M

Floyd R Turbo
10-15-2010, 09:28 AM
Holy cow man. I am starting to wonder if I have a major flaw in my design. Since it is in a tight space, I made it with a removable front panel so it's not sealed. If I get that much growth (3D) and the water level rises above the bottom edge of the front panel, I'm going to have water everywhere...

SantaMonica
10-15-2010, 09:41 AM
You won't get that much in 7 days. It takes at least 14 days, and lots of over feeding.

Floyd R Turbo
10-15-2010, 12:42 PM
Here's the screen today (Installed on Sunday, so this is after 5 full days)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8720.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8719.jpg

Amazing the difference in one day.

Here it is with the seed screens from IA

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/IMG_8721.jpg

Flow was slightly low on the far side. Probably a result of adding the cut outs. I was able to crack open the pump valve slightly.

I may trim the screen that is inside the tube a bit, it sticks up inside the tube almost all the way to the top, so trimming it off may improve overall flow also.

Floyd R Turbo
10-18-2010, 12:12 PM
Here is the screen on 10/16/10

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-10%20ATS/DSC00921.jpg

And here it was today before I cleaned it

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-18%20ATS/IMG_8722.jpg

And after

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-18%20ATS/IMG_8723.jpg

It seems like there was a lot of growth since last Thursday, especially from Saturday 10/16 to today. When I cleaned it, there wasn't really anything to scrape off or scrub off, I just used a sink sprayer and it just washed away. I got back to my office and read the Scrubber Basics II and figured that I probably cleaned the screen a little too early. Oh well. There's so much LR in the tank I'm not really that worried, I'll let it go until I get a more green algae before the next cleaning.

I pulled some stringy bits off the bottom edge with my fingers. The seed screens had some long strands of green hair, I didn't get all of those off.

Also I did notice uneven flow because the slot is getting clogged with what looks like algae growth. I'm pretty sure I'm going to need the light blocker after all. Also, I have to smooth out the inside of the pipe slot where I cut out the notches, I keep forgetting to bring some emery paper to get all the burrs out. I got most of them, but didn't have the right size sandpaper at the time. I have a few other things to do to this system this week, so I plan to take care of all these issue in a couple days.

I also added 5g to the sump, and as a result the pump has a little less head pressure and the emergency spillway is flowing a little more than before. So I think that once I clean the top of the screen (slot entry) and put the light blocker in, I'll see how the flow looks and try to open it all the way. If I still get overflow, I'm going to extend a couple of the notches. The light blocker will perform dual duty, I'm going to make little cuts along the bottom and let it come in contact with the screen - the idea being that it will create a small 'pool' of water to distribute the flow.

Live and learn...I've got another almost identical ATS made for another system. Once I get the kinks worked out, that one will go much smoother.

SantaMonica
10-18-2010, 03:14 PM
Looks good, just clean every 7 days.

The slot is probably fine... they fill-in once the growth starts.

Floyd R Turbo
10-18-2010, 06:58 PM
What do you mean - don't you want to avoid the slot filling in with algae growth?

SantaMonica
10-18-2010, 07:44 PM
It won't. As the algae grows into the slot, it stops the flow. This stops the growth.

Floyd R Turbo
10-18-2010, 07:54 PM
It won't. As the algae grows into the slot, it stops the flow. This stops the growth.

ok, no flow = no growth. then you get no flow on the screen, and you have no filter. I really don't understand what you mean. If you can, please explain in more detail because I'm just not getting your point. I'm a EE also, so get technical because this isn't making any sense. The less flow that can get through the slot, the less available water to grow more algae to make a better filter and the more water that gets pushed over the spillway, which is precisely what I do not want. I want to be able to crank the pump valve all the way open and have no overflow.

SantaMonica
10-19-2010, 06:07 AM
Ok think of it as a PID controller. Flow is input, growth is output, and the output is inverted before feeding back to the input.

Floyd R Turbo
10-19-2010, 10:54 AM
I had an emphasis in controls, how did you know?

Still though, I guess I don't see why it wouldn't be necessary to put on a blocker. I'm trying not to overcomplicate the thing, so if I really didn't have to have it that would be fine with me.

So if the light is hitting the slot, and the screen at the slot is growing algae to the point where it blocks the flow, the algae grow will stop and the flow will eventually balance out. I think this is the 'control loop' idea you're getting at. The problem I see with it is that I still will have a partially clogged slot, which reduces the flow to the screen to the extent that a significant amount of water gets pushed over the overflow. Also, wouldn't the reduced flow decrease the effectiveness of the rest of the screen? If the goal is to have 35 GPH per horizontal inch of screen, and I was able to figure out that the pump output is 1/2 gallon in 6 seconds - which is more now that I cleaned it and shortened the hose, so let's say 5 seconds - 0.5 gal / 5 sec = 360 GPH / 20" = 18 GPH/IN so my flow is already on the low side. Wow, I think I missed something in my initial calculation, because I thought I was going to be right on. I don't know if I could get any more volume over that screen, even if I cut bigger slots every 1/2 inch.

But anyways, I guess my point is that I don't want the slot clog and reduce the flow at all. So I understand your control loop idea, but still, once algae grows in the slot, it will always get water and light, so it will never really reduce that much. It's not going to block the flow 100%, there will still be some moisture there, allowing it to stay there and keep clogging the slot. So logically I would think that blocking the light from the slot would still be a recommended action. Am I just not getting this?

Floyd R Turbo
10-21-2010, 10:25 AM
I would still really appreciate a response regarding the lower flow rate that I calculated (I haven't tested the pump output since switching the filtration) and the issue about the algae in the slot. I see now that you're offering pre-cut pipes with no crosscuts. How do you get 35 GPH/in across a screen with no cutouts, in mine, I get overflow at half that flow rate. I'm not being argumentative or anything here, I'm trying to understand, because I've got another one of these to go in a second FOWLR, and the go-ahead to build a third for a 200 FOWLR that will be a much larger system (40 long sump, 48" lamps, 36+" screen, probably 1-1/4 to 1-1/2" PVC drain and maybe a 2" overflow).

I want to make sure I do these correctly.

Here are some pics for an update:

Screen on 10/19

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-18%20ATS/IMG_8724.jpg

closeups of the slot

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-18%20ATS/IMG_8727.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-18%20ATS/IMG_8727.jpg

I did take the screen out and extended the crosscuts ever so slightly (1/16" to maybe 1/8") in some areas to try and get more even flow across the screen, and in an attempt to be able to fully open the pump valve. I also got sandpaper in there to get rid of all the burrs on the inside of the tube. Overall, the adjustments didn't seem to make a whole lot of difference. I think it will be easier to tell once I have a fully broken-in screen (another month down the road) and after I remove the seed screens. That way, I will be able to tell by the speed of the growth if I need better flow. It could be the tube slot not being perfectly straight and evenly cut also (it's very close). I might consider doing the table-saw thing, I'm wondering if the tool I used didn't cut the slot wide enough. I noticed that the same tool I used to cut the slot will not freely slide through the slot now, as if the slot has closed up slightly after running for a while. Either that, or that fact that I made one pass with it (rotary drywall cutting on a dremel, I pre-cut a guide slot with a dremel saw blade) and didn't go back through it to widen it. I really couldn't, because the bit would bite in and make the slot uneven.

The screen at the tube slot wasn't as bad as I thought it was, but algae had definitely grown all the way up to the inside of the tube.

SantaMonica
10-21-2010, 11:48 AM
You don't need the bypass. It's not letting pressure build in the pipe, and thus flow is less than it should be. You just need a 1/8 slot, no crosscuts, and no bypass.

Floyd R Turbo
10-21-2010, 12:29 PM
If you have no bypass, do you suggest removing the screen from the slot prior to the weekly cleaning?

Now that I'm thinking about it, if I trim the screen itself so that it is not sticking up inside the tube (right now it is) then anything that would clog the screen (like an anemone) would get pushed toward the end of the pipe, and there would still be flow. So in the weekly cleaning, I would be able to check the tube for anything like that.

It's less of an issue with this tank, because the overflow is welded to the top (acrylic tank) and there is a strainer in the overflow tower. No snail of significant size would get through the overflow to cause a problem, and something like an anemone would cause a problem in any system if it were to get stuck somewhere in the plumbing.

However, for the next one I will be installing, it's a glass tank and I have found large Nerite snails in the sump that made it down the overflow, even with strainers on the J-tubes. Same concept applies though, they would get pushed to the end of the flow.

I wish I had thought of that a while back...

Will it still be OK though with 18-20 GPH/in on the screen? Maybe 25 on the high end? I guess it will be wait and see, and monkey with the light cycle.

SantaMonica
10-21-2010, 05:29 PM
If you have no bypass, do you suggest removing the screen from the slot prior to the weekly cleaning?

Yes you must do this anyway, to keep a clean flow pathway.


Now that I'm thinking about it, if I trim the screen itself so that it is not sticking up inside the tube

It needs to stick in about a half inch.


then anything that would clog the screen (like an anemone) would get pushed toward the end of the pipe

There is really nothing big enough that can get block the whole slot.


So in the weekly cleaning, I would be able to check the tube for anything like that

When cleaning you should always use a toothbush to get stuff out of the slot.


Will it still be OK though with 18-20 GPH/in on the screen? Maybe 25 on the high end?

I don't think so. Even 35 is "at least".

Floyd R Turbo
10-21-2010, 06:11 PM
Well then I've got a problem. I don't have enough flow and the only way to up it is to get a bigger return pump or reduce the screen size.

SantaMonica
10-22-2010, 05:15 AM
Reduce the screen size (width). You can do so easily by wrapping tape around the last few inches of the pipe. Best would be to make a new pipe, 1/8 inch, less long, with no crosscuts, and no bypass.

Floyd R Turbo
10-22-2010, 12:52 PM
I might be able to convince him to go for a bigger pump, and resell the smaller pump to another customer (who needs a bigger pump anyways).

Just out of curiosity, why are you now recommending no cross-cuts? I see lots of designs with them still, and I seem to remember (but I may be wrong) that, in the evolution of the designs, at one point that was recommended.

Floyd R Turbo
10-22-2010, 02:09 PM
Ok, this is weird. I started looking at new pumps and flow rates w/head pressure, and something isn't making sense.

The pump that is currently in the system is a Mag 12, it was replaced on February 2nd so it's very new, and I cleaned when I switched filtration to the ATS 2 weeks ago. I also moved the pump from the far end of the old sump so that it is directly below the bulkhead on the DT.

The tank water level is just under 5' off the floor. The sump is in a cabinet that is about 6" off the floor, so the total vertical head pressure on this is in the 5-6' range. The table for the Mag 12 pump here http://www.dannermfg.com/instructionsheets/ZG100.PDF says that even at 6' head pressure, the pump should be producing over 900 GPH.

If I need 35 GPH/in of screen, and my screen is 20" wide, I need 700 GPH from the pump. This pump should be WELL within this range. Based on my rather rudimentary measurement technique of sticking a pitcher under the sump input (which I haven't done since installing the ATS) I figure I am getting 1 gallon in 10 seconds, or 360 GPH. This well under half and almost one-thirdof the flow rate I would expect to see from this pump.

What could be the reason for this?

I noticed that just under the table it suggests a minimum 1-1/2" inside diameter hose for maximum flow. That also makes no sense, since the threaded output on the pump itself is designed for screwing on an adapter for a 1" ID hose, which is what I have, that goes to the bulkhead, up tube, and DT jets. Come to think of it, I think it's 3/4" ID hose, the black stuff you can get at Lowes. So are their table just completely thrown off by that? Maybe I'll look at the box next time I'm at the tank.

SantaMonica
10-22-2010, 05:14 PM
no cross-cuts?

They don't let the pressure build up.


the flow rate I would expect to see from this pump.

Good question for the pump experts out there. But I know lack of flow when I see it.

Floyd R Turbo
10-22-2010, 09:34 PM
no cross-cuts?

They don't let the pressure build up.


It took me a minute, but I think I've got what you're getting at now. No bypass and no crosscuts = higher pressure at the slot, which prevents algae from getting a strong hold and clogging the slot. So you don't need to block the light at the slot if you have enough pressure, and the crosscuts allow low pressure so algae can grow into the slot. Then result is that the higher pressure = possible spray from the slot, which is why some people put spray blockers to protect their lights.

I think it would really, really help if you updated your FAQ on this item. I went through them all today and several things have changed, which is one of the reasons I was confused.

SantaMonica
10-23-2010, 07:51 AM
Pretty much correct. The faq does not say to use cross slots, but I'll add something about not using them.

Floyd R Turbo
10-23-2010, 08:05 AM
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=131 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=131)

It says it here - different section of FAQ

SantaMonica
10-23-2010, 08:09 AM
Ahh good find. I fixed it.

Floyd R Turbo
10-26-2010, 07:34 PM
Ok, here's the screen after the second week:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8733.jpg

Taken out, before cleaning:

Front

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8738.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8739.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8740.jpg

Back

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8741.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8742.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8743.jpg

After cleaning

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8744.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8745.jpg

What do you think?

I was able to peg the flow from the pump at 374 GPH with the pump valve slightly closed and 433 GPH with it wide open. Still trying to get a handle on why the maximum flow is less than 1/2 of what it should be for that pump. So far, no good explanation, except the hose is actually 3/4" ID and 1" OD but the bulkhead and riser tube are sized for that also.

SantaMonica
10-26-2010, 07:55 PM
Well the algae clearly needs more iron, which is why it's yellow. Greater flow is normally the way to get more iron to it, but until you fix the flow, you can add some iron.

You see what happens to the turf pieces. Hair algae grows far faster than turf.

Floyd R Turbo
10-26-2010, 08:23 PM
Yeah they were pretty much overgrown with green hair. Pretty useless, except I did notice that they provided a good adhering point for the GHA, on the back side too. I secured them on with the 'clean' side out so that the growth side was in direct contact with the screen. I think on the next one I'll do without.

I thought that in SW/ocean water the iron levels were pretty much undetectable. So what happens if I fix the flow problem, won't the Iron get depleted out eventually?

SantaMonica
10-26-2010, 09:49 PM
They are undetectable because they are being used up so fast by algae. Remember that algae is 90 percent of all life in the ocean (except bacteria). It won't get used up in your tank if you feed... all food has iron, expecially nori.

Floyd R Turbo
10-27-2010, 02:11 PM
Here is the screen this morning (10/27) just a day and a half + after 2nd cleaning

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8749.jpg

Algae is really starting to take hold and grow fast. Now if only my Phosphate kit wasn't hosed, I could tell if those were dropping too. Nitrates still 0.0. Killer.

I also topped off the sump with an additional 10g of water over the past 3 days, so the flow has gone up a bit. I also capped off the spillway and opened the pump valve full. There was a noticeable increase in flow.

I bought another union, cap and PVC pipe and will be making the slotted tube again w/o crosscuts.

Floyd R Turbo
10-28-2010, 07:09 AM
AM of 10/28

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8750.jpg

This is just before ATS lights off. I noticed that on the right side in the area where the seed screen is attached, there's lots of bubbles that are 'stuck'. Would this be actual air trapped in algae pockets, or is it similar to "pearling" on live plants?

It looks like I'm getting better growth as a result of capping the spillway, but still need more flow.

I called Danner Mfg and found out that indeed, you are supposed to use a 1-1/2" ID hose from the pump, even though the output nozzle is 3/4" ID. They couldn't really tell me why as there was no tech person available, but the person I spoke with told me it was the #1 question they get. I'm guessing the output nozzle size is that way due to some backpressure requirement on the impeller, and too much backpressure would reduce the flow significantly. Kind of goes against intuitive logic of flow dynamics, but that wasn't my major!! Someone else told me they saw the increased flow big time when they increased pipe size on a CLS even with the same reducer in between the pump and a SCWD so it must have something to do with the immediate ID right after the pump.

I looked closer at the riser in the overflow and it actually is a 3/4" ID vinyl hose from the bulkhead to the jet

SantaMonica
10-28-2010, 09:53 AM
It's just trapped air... it happens on thick rubbery yellow algae, which grows due to lack of flow. I'd add some iron.

Floyd R Turbo
10-28-2010, 10:54 AM
Do you have a recommendation for an iron supplement product? I've used Seachem's Flourish Iron on my planted tank, will that work or is something specific to SW better? What about dosing level and amount?

SantaMonica
10-28-2010, 12:50 PM
I've only used Kent's Iron+Manganese. Follow the instructions.

Floyd R Turbo
10-29-2010, 01:17 PM
Will look for it.

Screen today

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-10-25%20ATS/IMG_8752.jpg

Floyd R Turbo
11-01-2010, 12:09 PM
Monday 11/1/2010

Looking rather gooey. Definitely showing areas of low flow.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-01%20ATS/IMG_8785.jpg

Floyd R Turbo
11-04-2010, 12:04 PM
Did the 3rd cleaning on Tuesday

one half

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-01%20ATS/IMG_8786.jpg

removed the seed screens

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-01%20ATS/IMG_8787.jpg

Gunk

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-01%20ATS/IMG_8788.jpg

Tube - really need to do this over ASAP

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-01%20ATS/IMG_8789.jpg

Today (2 days after cleaning)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-01%20ATS/IMG_8814.jpg

Sump getting dirty - this is the reason I was changing 2 filter socks weekly

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-01%20ATS/IMG_8815.jpg

SantaMonica
11-04-2010, 12:29 PM
You can let the sump go... it does not look like it's trapping much food.

Floyd R Turbo
11-04-2010, 12:45 PM
No, fish are way too piggy for food to make it to the sump. I'll clean it once a month. Oh yeah I found a place with the Kent Iron & Manganese and added that yesterday. We'll see if it makes a difference.

Floyd R Turbo
11-05-2010, 08:21 AM
Today

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-01%20ATS/IMG_8852.jpg

SantaMonica
11-05-2010, 09:07 AM
Definitely needs flow/iron.

Floyd R Turbo
11-08-2010, 02:25 PM
I added iron last Wednesday, it didn't seem to make a huge amount of difference. I read your thread about testing by dumping way more that the recommended dose. I don't think I'll be trying that but I'll keep adding it weekly. Here it is today, ready for another cleaning (#4)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-08%20ATS/IMG_8862.jpg

Also having to do some re-design on the acrylic. I have some better ideas. First, I am going to do away with the front cover design, and make a separate removable tub for the screen. Second, I am going to build a spillway of sorts underneath the scrubber tub and do away with the outlet pipes. I am hoping this will allow for easier maintenance and fewer microbubbles.

SantaMonica
11-08-2010, 03:33 PM
Looks better now... I see some green coming in. Another couple doses of iron would help.

Floyd R Turbo
11-08-2010, 08:04 PM
That pic was taken at 6 days from last cleaning. Should I dose iron and wait a few more days to clean, or go ahead and clean it in the AM (I cleaned last Tuesday AM). Also I added a bottle of Reef Nutrition Tigger Pods last week about 2 days after screen cleaning, but I see no evidence of pods anywhere. Added 1/2 in the DT and 1/2 in the overflow. I'm thinking maybe I should swish the screen in the DT then run RO water over it, put it back, dose iron, and let it grow one more day? Or does that violate the "clean the screen every 7 days, no matter what you think" rule?

SantaMonica
11-08-2010, 09:49 PM
Yes needs cleaning now... thick yellow growth will block light.

The pods you added got eaten right away. The pods that grow on a screen will look like white dust particles.

Floyd R Turbo
11-09-2010, 04:19 AM
So can you actually see the white pods? How would I get those to start growing? I have a scooter blenny and it's one of the reasons I went with an ATS (low priority, but still a reason)

SantaMonica
11-09-2010, 09:30 AM
If you have no mechanical filter or skimmer, the small white specs will be swarming throughout your tank. You don't have to do anything.

Floyd R Turbo
11-09-2010, 02:48 PM
Today, before cleaning

Front

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-08%20ATS/IMG_8863.jpg

Back

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-08%20ATS/IMG_8865.jpg

Side

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-08%20ATS/IMG_8864.jpg

Looking over some older posts, I saw one that talked about cleaning 1/2 of the screen every 5 days. I clean the whole screen (front/back) every 7 days. Am I doing it correctly? Seems to be working fine - just checking.

I will continue dosing Iron weekly, I think it's too early to tell if it's making a difference. I took the seed screens off and it came back a little slower, but by day 7 (above) it was still pretty good, at least compared to the previous week versus what it should look like.

Must increase flow...must increase flow...must stop time so I can work on that!!! Too busy lately. Actually, I'm thinking that I will hold off on increasing the flow until I re-build the box. I forsee that super-thick growth that reaches the acrylic in the near future, and there is a flaw in my design that will come to fruition if that happens. Making a box that is fully enclosed on along all vertical edges will thwart that flaw.

Testing:

Nitrates are staying at Zero. Only peaked at 0.5ppm over about a week when I shut the skimmer off. Down to 0.05ppm 4 days into ATS, 0 since then (or very, very low).

Phosphates are close to 0.10, maybe a little higher. They peaked around 0.25 recently after removing the skimmer, they were as high as 1.0-1.5 a year ago when I took the tank over, and I've only ever been able to get them down to 0.03 (Salifert) even while running 250mL of RowaPHOS in a bag in the sump. My guess is that the rocks are leeching at this point and it may be a few months before I see them drop out completely. That will be the day when I should hoo-ray.

Fuzzy Mushrooms started splitting last week. That's a new one. I just spotted one last week, then today it was fully separated, and today 2 more started.

I stirred the screen in the DT before cleaning and saw many white specs come off - not a lot, but some. So I guess I am getting pod growth. Still have the foam on the return pump intake until I figure out the microbubbles. I may stop worrying about that though.

SantaMonica
11-09-2010, 05:45 PM
Every 7 days is fine, unless you notice a nutrient spike afterwards.

Yes, find a way to get rid of the foam filter.

Your growth looks great... if this is all it ever does, I'd be happy.

Floyd R Turbo
11-09-2010, 05:53 PM
Yeah but I'm a perfectionist. I want it to grow right.... :D

Floyd R Turbo
11-15-2010, 08:00 AM
Here's this week's growth:

11/10 1 day after cleaning #4

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-08%20ATS/IMG_8872.jpg

11/12 Day 3

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-08%20ATS/IMG_8873.jpg

11/15 Day 6

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8875.jpg

Finally!

And I tested Phosphates today - maximum 0.03 on Salifert, which ties the lowest reading I've ever seen on this tank. The other time it was this low was a few days after adding 250 mL of RowaPHOS (which is expensive as all get out) and lasted about 3 months at 0.03-0.10 before slowly climbing back up.

SantaMonica
11-15-2010, 10:14 AM
Nice!

Floyd R Turbo
11-16-2010, 08:43 AM
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8899.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8900.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8901.jpg

Releasing pods - look at the GHA strands!!

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8903.jpg

Scraping - had to use backs of fingernails, fingertips wouldn't do the job

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8904.jpg

Pipe

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8905.jpg

Lunch!

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8906.jpg

On the downside of phosphate reduction is the noticable recession of the Xenias. They continue to spread, but are about 1/2 the height that they were, and they are not 'pumping' as much. This may or may not have to do with the lamp change, I replaced all 8 of the T5HO lamps. I unscrewed 2 lamps this AM. They were better lamps than the stock ones that came with the fixture. I noticed the Kryptonite Candy Cane was 'crumpling' and the zoas were not opening all the way, and the Kenya Tree Leather was bleaching out on top (not on bottom) but that could be because I moved him and he fell twice, they don't like to be messed with.

Gotta get the Xenias out ASAP! I might have to set up a 40 breeder at home and move them out.

SantaMonica
11-16-2010, 01:08 PM
Or try feeding some liquid coral food.

Floyd R Turbo
11-16-2010, 02:33 PM
Like Oyster-feast? Or would you suggest something else? I've got OF. I also told him to start feeding a minimum of once a day, said go ahead with Rod's food 1 sq in, 1 cube Ocean Nutrition brine shrimp #1 + Nori #2, a squirt of OF and Arcti-pods, plus pellet food if the kids want to feed (dentist's office). Plus will have him put the auto-feeder on over weekends. he's not measuring the OF or AP, it says 1-2 tsp daily but he's probably doing 1/2 of that, just giving it a squirt. Should probably have him start measuring - how much?

SantaMonica
11-16-2010, 04:07 PM
As much as the scrubber will allow.

Floyd R Turbo
11-22-2010, 11:59 AM
I've upped the feeding to 1 sq in of Rod's food, 1 cube each Ocean Nutrition #1/#2, and a big squirt of Oyster-feast and Arcti-pods daily, plus I told the Doc to let the kids feed them pellets whenever they feel like it. I've been dosing 10-15mL Kent Iron/Manganese about every 5 days on the average. I harvested about 20+ Xenia and 6 sq in Anthelia this past week (sold them) and the Xenia seem to be doing a little better, they're 'reaching' a little more.

This is the screen today (middle of day 6 since last cleaning)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8972.jpg

This is beginning to get some super-mad growth. The ATS lights are only on from about 4pm to 7am, so about 15 hours. This is by far the thickest and greenest it's been (this is the end of week 6). It's so thick that, as you can see from the pic, the reservoir is completely full of water and algae. This presents a problem that I thought I wouldn't encounter so soon, as the waterline is at the joint where the front cover locks on. I have to get going on my re-design, or start cleaning the screen (at least the bottom inch) a little more often to compensate. I guess this is a good problem to have!!

As far as Phosphates go, I have no idea where they are - I just know they're really low. I am currently on my 2nd defective Salifert Phos kit in a row. On another FOWLR tank, it tests water as 0.25 ppm and the API kit shows it at 2 ppm. I evaluated another tank that had 10ppm P on API, and Salifert showed just under 1. Unfortunately, API's kit doesn't have any resolution worth a darn for amounts under 0.25. The API kit on this tank was pretty light, and that's all I can say at this point. I'm thinking I will be investing in a Colorometer instead of buying another Phos kit.

Vannpytt
11-22-2010, 01:00 PM
Can you post a picture of the tank with the scrubber installed? I wish to share it with some friends.

Floyd R Turbo
11-22-2010, 01:05 PM
You can look at all the pictures of this tank from the day I started tracking and maintaining it here:

http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/tt19 ... 0Aquarium/ (http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/)

Vannpytt
11-22-2010, 01:13 PM
I saw you posted in the ATS thread on RC also. Did yo post these findings?

Floyd R Turbo
11-22-2010, 01:23 PM
I don't think I did...probably won't until tonight...

Floyd R Turbo
11-29-2010, 10:02 AM
I spent some time on CAD working out a revised design, and along with a couple ideas from others on RC I solidified a re-design last week. Over the weekend, my Dad and I built this new 2-piece ATS box that will replace the old one:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-19%20ATS%202/IMG_9072.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-19%20ATS%202/IMG_9077.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-19%20ATS%202/IMG_9073.jpg

It has a frame for holding the lights made out of black acrylic, and the standoffs will be held in place on the outside versus the inside, that way the screw heads are out of the way. It also has a black strip that acts as a light blocker to keep light from getting around the reflectors better. I left the ends open for ventilation, I will probably add fans on one end of each side. The inner box has black on the bottom and sides, also to block light to the sump and outside of the device.

The inner box will house the screen, it is watertight and has holes drilled in the corners that match up with open sections in the base for drain tube connections.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-19%20ATS%202/IMG_9076.jpg

Instead of going with modified (hacksawed) bulkheads like in my original design, I came up with a more compact and flexible design, I used a combination of a male/female screw-on PVC connector (for 1" pipe) and rubber sink faucet o-rings, then used a table router to custom cut the hole so that it tightens down and provides a perfect watertight fit

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-19%20ATS%202/IMG_9074.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-19%20ATS%202/IMG_9075.jpg

There are 2 of these, one in each corner of the box. The screen will actually hang down to within 1/2" of the bottom of the box, and since the drain is off to the side and 1" above the bottom, the water will not cascade down and directly into the drain.

My idea here is that this will:

1) reduce or drastically eliminate microbubbles

2) reduce the chance of clogging or the pipe (which has not happened, but other have experienced it)

3) allow option of different heights of internal tubing to control the water level in the box.

Allowing the screen to become completely flooded provides for 3D growth of the algae (like I am seeing at the very bottom of the current design) and having a 2nd drain 1/2 way up the box would allow for buildup of algae and a secondary maximum water level. I considered cutting a slot out of one side of the box as an emergency measure, but that can be added later if it seems to be needed. I don't think it will.

I obviously have to add all the light fixtures and wiring, but should have it up and running in the new box by this weekend.

mikepao13
11-29-2010, 12:45 PM
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-15%20ATS/IMG_8972.jpg

Hi,

how do you clean the base? the draining part.

mine is not removable (acrylic box expanted) and cleaning is hard, all red/black slimy dirty staff sometimes ends up in my sump and i have to collect it with a net.

Floyd R Turbo
11-29-2010, 01:11 PM
I just wipe it out with a cotton rag about once every other cleaning. I use Sellar's Rags in a Box (the ones at Lowe's, NOT the original Scott's Rags-in-a-box - those changed and suck now). The new one may be a little more difficult. A stiff brush should do it, but if you can't remove the box, then you're stuck releasing some algae into the sump. If you have any algae grazers, just let it go into the DT and they'll eat it. If not, I wouldn't worry too much about it, because any algae that makes it into the DT will not survive at the ATS have better lighting and will out-compete the DT algae (this is one of the purposes of the ATS after all).

mikepao13
11-29-2010, 01:19 PM
Thanks a lot man,not to worry a lot then.

Floyd R Turbo
11-30-2010, 08:50 AM
I cleaned out the sump on Saturday, moved most of the LR in there to the DT, removed the return pump intake foam filter, and stacked the remaining LR around the intake so that I had a place to put the Purigen bags and to also create an area for bubble to get stuck to. It works pretty well. During the cleaning today, I opened the bypass with a pipe extension added, and bubbles were flowing pretty heavily around the sump, but they werent' getting into the DT. I forgot to snap a pic.

During the cleaning, I also fragged some Xenia and Anthelia and got into a conversation with the guy buying them, and the screen was without flow for about an hour. I think it dried out a little too much in a few areas, because there was a little more odor than the last few weeks, and sections of the GHA had turned yellow, strangely enough only on one side of the screen. Anyways, still had excellent growth and the cleaning took 21 minutes from the time I walked in the door to the time I closed the bypass valve after re-installing the screen. Pics:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-29%20ATS/IMG_9078.jpg

One half harvest

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-29%20ATS/IMG_9079.jpg

second half screen

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-29%20ATS/IMG_9080.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-29%20ATS/IMG_9081.jpg

Harvest

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-11-29%20ATS/IMG_9082.jpg

SantaMonica
11-30-2010, 09:41 AM
The more dried out side would be the one facing the opening of the cabinet.

If the scrubber had its lid on, it could go a lot longer without flow.

Floyd R Turbo
11-30-2010, 11:27 AM
The lid is off for taking the picture. It was enclosed all week long. The new scrubber box will allow flooding.

Floyd R Turbo
12-07-2010, 12:17 PM
Screen cleaning today:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-12-07%20ATS/IMG_9109.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-12-07%20ATS/IMG_9112.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-12-07%20ATS/IMG_9114.jpg

Some different algae growth between the 2 screen sections

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-12-07%20ATS/IMG_9111.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-12-07%20ATS/IMG_9115.jpg

Clean screen

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-12-07%20ATS/IMG_9116.jpg

SantaMonica
12-07-2010, 01:49 PM
Looks good... lots of filtering.

Floyd R Turbo
12-22-2010, 11:25 AM
Here was the screen on 12/14 before cleaning

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-12-14%2021%20ATS/IMG_9145.jpg

On par with the last couple. However, here is was this week on 12/21 before cleaning

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-12-14%2021%20ATS/IMG_9146.jpg

The things I noticed were that the water was mainly flowing out at the far end of the tube, and there was a squirting noise from that area. I replaced the zip-ties on 12/14 and probably didn't scrub the top inch of the screen quite as good as I usually do, and I cinched the zip-ties down pretty tight. I think that had something to do with it. You can see that the growth is great at the end of the screen where it gets the most flow.

Also, the feeding probably wasn't as aggressive, as the Arcti-pods and Oyster feast ran out about 2 weeks ago. I have been dosing quite a bit of Kent Iron, to the tune of 15 mL 2x a week. Also, over the last week, I added a 300 mg bottle of Seachem Magnesium, a little bit of Seachem Iodide (only about 10 mL one time), and most of a bottle of Seachem Strontium (it was 0 - now it's MAYBE 3 ppm). That was on top of the normal Alk and Ca additions.

When I cleaned the screen this time, I made sure the top inch was clean, and did some extra scrubbing of the tube slot. I also didn't cinch the zip-ties down quite so hard, thought I fail to see how the tightness of those would make any difference. The flow seemed to be more like it was before. Time will tell. I'll have to pop in over the holiday weekend and feed 'em good.

SantaMonica
12-22-2010, 12:03 PM
It was the lack of food that changed it.

Floyd R Turbo
01-18-2011, 08:42 AM
Ok, it's been a while since my last post so first a few weekly cleaning shots:

12/29/2010

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/Customer%20SW%20Aquarium/2010-12-29%20ATS/IMG_9147.jpg

1/6/11

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9148.jpg

1/13/11

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9149.jpg

On Saturday 1/15 I replaced the ATS box with the new design. Here's a set of pics after I assembled the new unit:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9157.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9158.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9161.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9162.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9160.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9159.jpg

And here it is, installed and running

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9163.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9164.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9165.jpg

And the screen in the box (with the reflectors turned)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9168.jpg

The bottom 2" of the screen is completely submerged all the time in this design. I had to trim a strip about 1/4" wide and 2" long off each lower corner of the screen to allow for the drain pipes in the box. When I replace the slot pipe, I will decrease the width of the screen and increase the size of the return pump tubing and this should result in better GPH/Inch flow.

There were only a few flub-ups with the design. The screen box is removable, but I had to flip the drain on one side so that the shorter side is down because the box is tight to the cabinet top with you lift it out. Also, I forgot about the pipe sitting on top of the box, so that has to be removed before you can get the box out, which means I have to remove the zip-ties and take the pipe out before a cleaning. Oops. I can get the box back in with the screen attached to the pipe as long as I hold the pipe off to the side with the screen hanging in the box. I may be able to correct this by removing the piece of acrylic on the end, but then I would have to install some kind of support piece between the front and back of the frame. I might do that anyways.

One thing I noticed is that the inner box bows outward in the middle already. It doesn't affect anything, but I just found it interesting. It might have been that way before installing, but I don't think so, the moisture and heat from the light is making it bow I'm thinking. I might install a top cover piece or something, but we'll see.

Since I had to re-assemble the whole thing, I used new end caps and siliconed the bottom of each (where the wires are inserted), cleaned up the wiring (the last pic before install shows 4 wireway loops), and replaced the 3-month-old lamps, per the new standard.

So, I went to check on it on Sunday (1 day later) and already saw some 3D growth in the submerged section.

I took the following pic today, 3 days after installation:

1/18/11

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9171.jpg

It's a little hard to see, but the entire bottom 2" that is submerged has filled out with 3D growth, the left side a little more than the right. Also, the center of the screen has 3D growth all the way up to the slot pipe.

The owner mentioned this morning that he noticed all of the corals have opened up much more just in the one day (Monday) that he looked at it since installation of the new box.

It's a little early to tell, but I would have to say that this style of design is hands-down the way to go. There are definitely major advantages to an enclosed-box design, the main one being better growth with 3D, and it keeps entire systems cleaner (no worries about spray, spray blockers, salt creep, corrosion), and the screen box can be cleaned more easily. I should have taken a picture of the old box after I took it out, it was caked with coraline and other algae, I had to scrub it hard with a toothbrush to get all the gunk off to keep it from smelling up the house as it dried up. There was no way to clean that out each time I cleaned the screen, I tried to wipe it out with a rag but there was always pieces that broke away and got into the sump.

I can definitely see why the SM100 design is made the way it is. If anyone is weighing the costs of a DIY version of the SM100, I would strongly consider just getting his because now I can see why it works so well.

I haven't cleaned the sump in about 2 months, there is algae growth down there, a couple patches of cyanobacteria actually, and some other fuzzies, but the gunk level is down quite a bit since I removed the foam over the pump intake. I will likely siphon out the sump when I replace the return pump tubing.

Floyd R Turbo
01-18-2011, 11:24 AM
After dealing with API for a month since my second Salifert kit in a row was defective, I bought a Hanna Checker Phosphate Colorimeter.

The first time I used it to test the water from this tank, it read 0.12.

I tested it today with a fresh sample (only a few hours out of the tank) and it read 0.19.

He is over-feeding to keep Xenia from dying, but I took this sample on Monday in the AM right after lights on, and the fish had not been fed since I fed them on Saturday afternoon (around 3:30 pm). The other variable here is low screen flow, it's about 20 GPH/inch which I do intend to correct. Corals are all doing great otherwise, so the extra Phosphate isn't stunting growth

Can you think of a reason why the Phosphate would still be so high after running this ATS for a month?

Prior to this, the Phosphate was as high as 1.0 and possibly higher, then I added ROWAphos on 2/1/10 and that knocked it down to around 0.10 and maybe 0.03 but never dead on zero, and it slowly climbed up to around 0.25 (Salifert) over time. I haven't really had a reliable Phos kit since installing the scrubber. The last PWC I did was 20 gallons (about 18%) on 11/28. Scrubber installed on 10/10/10.

On a side note, I have another FOWLR tank (not running a scrubber yet) that had phosphate over 2.50 so I had to dilute it using water from this tank to extrapolate a reading of 2.71 (that one is 2nd in line to get a scrubber).

SantaMonica
01-18-2011, 03:52 PM
I'd say it just a lot of feeding, versus low flow.

Floyd R Turbo
01-20-2011, 01:20 PM
What a difference. Allowing for 3D growth makes a HUGE difference. Here's pics from today:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9172.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9173.jpg

Floyd R Turbo
01-30-2011, 08:59 AM
Been a while since I posted here - been too busy!! I swapped out the ATS box on the reef tank I maintain and have done a couple cleanings. I made a video series of the first cleaning for those of you interested.

This cleaning was done after 9 days of growth. Yesterday I did the 2nd one after 7 days, and the growth was a lot more, unbelievably.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9q6exxX2Hs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbwAyVu87fk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb_kSnS8Tcc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJOx1KsQHIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FOFZMBQI0k

And a video tour of the tank...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdH2I8RWNFs

oildalemonkey
01-30-2011, 10:15 AM
Very impressive, Floyd (or Bud)!

Floyd R Turbo
01-31-2011, 07:51 AM
Super growth from this week's cleaning. 7 day growth was better than last week's 9-day growth.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9205.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9204.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9206.jpg

This doesn't count what made it down the drain.

ATS inner box side walls warped outwards. This happened pretty much right away so it must be something to do with construction. It seems that this is very difficult to avoid.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-01-15%20ATS%20Rev%202/IMG_9207.jpg

...except in the SM100 design, this won't happen because of the top & bottom perpendicular pieces that frame out the light fixture.

spideybry
02-08-2011, 06:42 AM
Nice set up. I am debating on building my own or getting one of the pre-made scrubbers for my new system. I see that the 3d seems to have a greater effect on the growth of algae and export of nutrients.

If I had a table saw I would definitely make my own scrubber. -_-

Eclip
02-13-2011, 05:50 PM
When working with acrylic i have noticed that it will absorb moisture and bend. Since you have a very high ad long box it may be due to the moisture/weight of the 2inches of water in the bottm of the box. i noticed that 3mm acrylic is on the small side for a box this long. I used a 2nd 3mm sheet bonded to the bottom of the box to stop it from bowing. My box is only about 4 inches high and it was the base of mine that was bowing.

If i made it again i would use 4mm for sure or possibly 5mm for a 2 foot box. Other boxes i have made (1foot in length) for friends dont have this problem at all.

Nice setup btw looking good!

Floyd R Turbo
02-13-2011, 06:02 PM
I'm using 1/4" all around - that's 6 mm. Still bowing...but it hasn't gotten any worse.

The only way to stop it is to brace it with a piece that runs along the bowing piece, perpendicular to it.

This is not an issue with the SM100 design. It looks like an "I" beam from the end and is no doubt very strong. I can tell that he put a lot of thought into it.

It still works awesome though...

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9225.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9226.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9227.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9231.jpg

Floyd R Turbo
02-15-2011, 06:37 AM
I forgot to mention - there was a 1.5 hour power outage on the system a week ago Sunday. The only way I knew was because the timers were offset on Monday the 7th. The screen and tank inhabitants survived just fine, with only a slight rise in Nitrates (0.1 to 0.25 on Salifert).

SantaMonica
02-15-2011, 10:16 AM
Must have had a bit of die-off, since that short time is not enough for a nitrate buildup.

Floyd R Turbo
02-15-2011, 12:29 PM
That was also 24 hours after screen cleaning dated 2/5 so there wasn't much algae to take up the slack. Sometimes when I test within a couple days of a cleaning there's 0.05 ppm nitrate - I call it that, because it is just barely slightly maybe a hint of pink and not perfectly clear (when looking through it from the side. This was just barely slightly pink.

Floyd R Turbo
03-01-2011, 09:34 AM
I'm getting some fluctuation in growth and I'm wondering if this is normal, or if I should worry. You can look back in this thread and see the growth but I'll repeat the pic here to illustrate:

01-29 - thick green

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9204.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9205.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9206.jpg

02-05 (7 days) - still a lot, but darker green

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9215.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9216.jpg

02-13 (8 days) - even darker green

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9226.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9227.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9231.jpg

02-19 (6 days) - more brown and slimy. most of it washed down the drain

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9234.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9235.jpg

02-27 (8 days) - even more brown, almost yellow and gooey

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9276.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9277.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9280.jpg

As you can see, the amount of algae produced over the last 2 weeks is about 1/2 of what it was in January. The first pic is from the second cleaning after I installed the new box. The first 2 or 3 cleanings of the screen from that box were much larger harvests than any of the previous 2 or 3 months worth since starting the scrubber (10/10/10).

About the same time (end of the week prior to the 2/19 cleaning) the owner noticed one of the Frowspawns was not opening. This was followed last week by the other frogspawn not opening, one of the Acans not fully opening, the ORA Green Birdsnest not opening, the Branching Hammer not opening, and even some Anthelia not looking so happy. Interestingly enough, the leathers (that were notoriously shy) are way open, and the Zoas, which were half-open most of the time, are all the way open and multiplying. The newly added Green Digitata seems unphased.

I'm wondering if this is a combination of things. The last dose of Kent's Iron/Manganese I put in was on 1/27. I was doing this due to low flow (20 GPH/inch) that I can fix (hopefully) but not anytime soon. On or about the 22nd, I started dosing BRS 2-part Alk/Cal and adjusted everything to 9.0 Alk, 420 Cal, 1350 Mag and had the owners dosing the Alk and Cal. Tank is drawing significant Alk, so Sunday I installed a Drew's Doser for the Alk, to keep the pH from fluctuating, and added whatever was left of the Iron/Manganese.

Also, I noticed that the RO/DI water I provided (and had mixed in the BRS ALK solution into so they could just top off for Alk) had a funny smell to it. It is very difficult to describe, the best description I could give is that it smelled like a new car tire, or some kind of rubbery smell. I had not noticed it when mixing the Alk in, just when picking up the empty bucket. This had happened before and I used the water before I noticed so I wasn't too concerned. I had a problem with my RO/DI system at that time and had to replace the carbon and DI. I had replaced the DI beads right after supplying this water to them, and now the RO/DI water it's producing is without odor and 0 ppm.

I'm wondering if they skimped on feeding or if this potential contaminant is the culprit, or lack of Iron, inadequate feeding, etc. I've seen low screen growth as a result of low feeding, however not clamped corals. Also the Phosphate is still 0.11 to 0.15 on Hanna Phosphate Checker.

Any insights?

SantaMonica
03-01-2011, 10:36 AM
Well the lack of growth is clearly from low feeding. Since the algae can't form thick/solid strands, it can't grow out and into the flow, so it matts down. It has plenty of iron, however, because of the non-yellow growth. If you want to test the feeding/growth, feed 3X for one week, and watch the growth the following week.

The coral closings seem a separate issue, since they are different types. If it were just softies, I'd say nutrients were too low. The only tie might be that lower amounts of food are not giving the corals enough nutrition to fight off whatever is irritating them, be it the rodi water or not. If this is the case, a 3X feeding will help.

Floyd R Turbo
03-01-2011, 01:19 PM
They problem seems to be getting a little better. I stopped in today with some more Kent's Iron, and spoke with the owner. Our local reef club had a DIY food meeting and made 40 pounds of total-tank food (probably comparable to Rod's Food but better and cheaper). I had already told him to start feeding a lot and he did yesterday and today.

The Birdsnest is open but not fully, but it looks much better than it did on Sunday (I added 5 gallons new RO/DI top-off on Sunday). The Acan was almost completely open. The Hammer looked like it was staring to come out a little bit, but the frogspawns were both about the same, maybe slightly more open. Green Star Polyp was about the same. There is a Sun Coral down in the corner that was way, way open and the owner said it was open bigger than he's even seen it so there's plenty of good signs. We'll see how the growth looks this week and next. It's interesting how you can tell exactly how well the tank is being fed just by the harvest of the algae screen.

Here's current pics. ORA Green Birdsnest & Acan

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-01/IMG_9284.jpg

Branching Hammer

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-01/IMG_9283.jpg

Frogspawns

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-01/IMG_9282.jpg
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-01/IMG_9281.jpg

Floyd R Turbo
03-05-2011, 07:10 PM
Well, I did another screen cleaning today, and I did a 40 gallon (30%) PWC just to be safe. I figure that if there was a contaminant, it would help.

The screen growth was no different. Lots of brown slimy algae. While I was doing the PWC, I cleaned out the sump, which had quite a thick layer of sediment in it, so maybe that had something to do with it. But I also noticed that on the front of the DT, there was quite a bit of brown stringy algae. I almost didn't notice it, but I had to shut most of the power heads off during the PWC. One of the powerheads had quite a bit of brown algae growing on it, and I just cleaned it by soaking in vinegar a week ago. I thought that was rather odd. i have noticed stringy tendrils of this brown algae on the Birdsnest and other corals too. Then, someone in our local reef society posted that they have been seeing the same thing, starting 2 weeks ago (same time as me). I think it's a conspiracy. The Illuminati. Or maybe solar flares...

But seriously, I'm at a loss here. Feeding has been good, I've been dosing Kent Iron/Manganese a couple times a week, and most of the corals are doing good, better than they were a few months ago. So what is affecting the frogspawn, birdsnest, and branching hammer is really tripping me up. And the third disappointing cleaning in a row is starting to worry me.

I think I will be testing the water flow (ran out of time today) and cleaning the pump, regardless. But I want a benchmark to know what difference it made.

Also, I didn't clean the screen quite as thoroughly as I normally do - I left a good layer of algae on.

SantaMonica
03-06-2011, 07:08 AM
Your 0.1 phosphate would be enough to have algae grow on plastic parts all this time, but you say the growth just started. The growth you describe almost sounds more like bacterial matts, which show up overnight if you dose too much carbon. This would make sense in your situation, because it would irritate some corals and not others. If it is bacteria, and if your phosphate is still 0.1, then you actually don't want to feed more; you want to find where the carbon is coming from.

Floyd R Turbo
03-06-2011, 07:32 AM
Well, I don't dose carbon. The only things I've been dosing are BRS 2-part Alkalinity and Calcium. I stopped dosing the Kent Iron about the time I started mixing in the 2-part solution into the top off water, which was a little over a month ago.

Everything was fine until I mixed up about 10 gallons of solution about 3 weeks ago. That RO/DI water was apparently tainted, as it had a strange rubber-like smell to it. The last time that happened, I replaced my activated carbon Stage #2 on my RO/DI setup.

You don't suppose that the source of carbon would be activated carbon in my pre-filter somehow made it through the RO membrane, clogged up the DI beads, and then made it into the final water, do you?

Or are you talking about some other form of carbon?

Bacteria would certainly fit the observations. I need to know more ASAP please...

Floyd R Turbo
03-06-2011, 08:26 AM
Also, I started feeding the DIY food about 2 weeks ago, about 1 week after the problem started showing up. So I don't think that is the source of the problem.

What would cause such a bacterial outbreak, and what is the cure for it? It this a form of cyano bacteria?

When I cleaned the sump, there were a few 'blobs' of brown slimy stuff that I sucked out, they were floating on the surface. They disintegrated easily. They looked similar to the brown algae growing on the screen - most of that disintegrated while I was cleaning the screen.

Here's pics of the screen, 6 days of growth

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9292.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9293.jpg

SantaMonica
03-06-2011, 08:59 AM
Nutrients are high in the tank; you are probably feeding much more than you think. I think your goal should be to make them undetectable.

The "carbon" is not GAC. It's organic carbon, like vodka or vinager; it causes bacterial blooms to grow on everyting, including plastic and corals. However the bacteria need N and P too.

I would say make sure the RODI is fixed, and then reduce feeding until P = 0 and the brown stringy stuff goes away; at this point your screen should be growing thick green again.

Any time the screen growth goes from green to brown, it means you are feeding too fast for how strong the scrubber is. If you are cleaning the whole screen, it's possible that the nutrients rise too quick for the new screen growth to catch up, and thus the growth goes brown. The goal is for screen growth to be able to absorb new nutrients out of the water faster than they are put into the water. If new nutrients are added to the tank faster than the screen can absorb them, growth goes brown. If new nutrients are added slower than the screen can absorb them, then the screen stays in the low-nutrient green zone.

Floyd R Turbo
03-06-2011, 09:14 AM
That's what I thought. Could the fact that I cleaned 2 of the power heads by soaking in vinegar added enough carbon to cause a bloom? I let them soak for about 30 minutes, then scrubbed under running water for quite a while. They were pretty gunky.

I am having them feed about 1 square inch of DIY food (similar to Rods' food) that is about 1/4" thick. I suppose that is about equivalent to about 3 or 4 cubes a day. They are also using up Reef Nutrition Cubes and some dry pellet food for when the kids (dentist's office) want to feed them, but I don't know how often they are feeding those. They certainly don't feed them much of it.

As for the nutrients, I've never been able to get the P to zero. When I took over this tank, they were 3 or 4. I got them down to 0.03-0.10 on Salifert with Rowaphos. Then my Salifert kit pooped out (2 in a row) so i got a Hanna Checker and it's been either 0.11 of 0.15 every time I've tested. I recently tested freshly mixed up RO/DI and Reef Crystals and it read 0.09. I have yet to test my RO/DI water.

The Nitrates have been at zero since way before the ATS. Lots of LR. When I took off the skimmer they rose a little - maybe to 1 or 2 ppm. Since then the highest reading I've ever got was 0.5, if that.

Phosphates are still as low as they have ever been in the tank. I still have to fix the flow issue (pump restriction and cross-cut tube) but it hasn't been an issue until now. Gotta clean that pump though.

SantaMonica
03-06-2011, 11:10 AM
The vinegar you used was washed off, so it did not do anything.

0.1 to 0.15 is very high P for reefs. No need for water changes. I think if you stop them, and feed a bit less, you'll have zero P soon, and this will take away the P needed by the brown stringly stuff, whether it's algae or bacteria. Plus, with no water changes, you'll have more coral food in the water.

Floyd R Turbo
03-06-2011, 11:25 AM
I haven't been doing PWCs for quite a while, even before adding the ATS. I just did one the other day in case there was a pollutant that was affecting the whole system, since I have no other explanation.

I did a 20% PWC on 11/28/10 to clean the sump

10% on 9/26 during livestock acclimation

20% on 9/12 when I totally re-arranged the tank

20% on 8/20 when acclimating a large amount of livestock

30% on 8/11

35% on 6/6

Installed ATS on 10/10/10

So frequency of PWCs is not causing the issue.

I've also been keeping the P up so I don't crash the tank by losing all the xenias.

Also I thought you said to feed the tank 3x normal to get the corals to open up, thinking that they weren't getting enough food (and the screen as well). So now that the bacteria algae has been factored in, are you saying do the opposite?

SantaMonica
03-06-2011, 11:47 AM
Basically, yes. It's hard to diagnose from descriptions. As long as you monitor screen color, P, nuisance growth, and xenia, you can try for a tradeoff.

0.05 might be good overall P.

A last option is to do nothing, and see where the balance ends up.

Floyd R Turbo
03-06-2011, 08:11 PM
True. I wonder if switching Alk and Cal supplements recently, then switching from top-off Alk dosing to a doser at the top of every hour (because the pH swing from top-off was about maximum - 0.20) has caused the 'set point' of the tank to move a little. I'll have them ease up on the feeding a little (go back to 'normal' feeding) and let it be for a bit.

Floyd R Turbo
03-06-2011, 08:13 PM
Oh one more thing. I heard that if you have an good screen growing and either N or P drops to undetectable levels, that the other may not continue to get absorbed. Is this correct or did I get that wrong? In this case, N has always been low (lots of LR) and P seems to not want to drop out and I thought this was a possible explanation, but can't remember where I read about this (someone else reminded me of it)

SantaMonica
03-06-2011, 08:51 PM
Either could be limiting. My N was zero, and I added P to be 1.0. There was no nuisance algae growth at all.

Floyd R Turbo
03-06-2011, 09:41 PM
I'm not sure if I explained that right, or if I'm not understanding your response. My question was not related to algae growth in the DT, but on the ATS screen.

What I was asking is this: Is there a situation where the algae (on the ATS) will no longer drive down P if N is zero? Or vice-versa?

SantaMonica
03-06-2011, 10:01 PM
Not if you feed.

Floyd R Turbo
03-08-2011, 07:22 AM
Stopped in today, Birdsnest is mostly open again, frogspawns and hammer are not looking good.

I think I had an outbreak of Dinos

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

This article describes exactly what I saw, brown slimy stringy gooey stuff that if it was burgundy/red I would have called it cyano. It seems that this is the same brown gooey stuff growing on the screen, the stuff that disintegrates easily. Should I be cleaning my screen (at least FW rinsing it) several times a week until it goes away?

SantaMonica
03-08-2011, 10:01 AM
Just had a thought... if your topoff did have a problem, it might have killed some of the micro life; this would have cause a spike in nutrients, and thus brown screen growth. This would coincide with certain corals closing (poision, etc).

If this is the case, only GAC would remove it all.

ShanGo
03-08-2011, 11:19 AM
Just had a thought... if your topoff did have a problem, it might have killed some of the micro life; this would have cause a spike in nutrients, and thus brown screen growth. This would coincide with certain corals closing (poision, etc).

If this is the case, only GAC would remove it all.
what is GAC ?

Floyd R Turbo
03-08-2011, 11:24 AM
Interesting. The other thing is that the zoas are more open, and the leathers have completely taken off during the same time period. Also I fixed the 'smell' problem with the RO/DI system by replacing the granulated carbon #2 stage.

This may sound like a stupid question, but can I use the standard activated carbon (like what you use in a FW canister) in a media bag and just put it in the sump, or do I need to use something specific to saltwater, like something that Bulk Reef Supply would sell and use a reactor device of some type?

rahjelli
03-08-2011, 11:44 AM
Just had a thought... if your topoff did have a problem, it might have killed some of the micro life; this would have cause a spike in nutrients, and thus brown screen growth. This would coincide with certain corals closing (poision, etc).

If this is the case, only GAC would remove it all.
what is GAC ?

Granular Activated Carbon

SantaMonica
03-08-2011, 02:16 PM
Any GAC works. The difference in brands etc are how long it lasts, how much dust etc, but in your case you only need a day or two of it in front of some flow.

Floyd R Turbo
03-08-2011, 08:40 PM
Will do. I have plenty of carbon.

Tested just now

Phosphate 0.15 (but 0 TDS RO/DI water tested 0.05 - meter error is +/- 0.04?)
Nitrate solid 0 (salifert)
Ammonia 0 (API)

Vannpytt
03-08-2011, 11:56 PM
That's a whole lot of phosphates Floyd.What are the nitrates?

Floyd R Turbo
03-09-2011, 09:19 AM
They are listed in the same post.

Added carbon today. We'll see how it goes. Algae screen growth is looking a bit healthier, more green, not as gooey, and already 3D at the bottom 2" in the middle. Frogspawn and hammer still clenched. Birdsnest about the same, maybe 50% polyp extension. They aren't flowing in the current, but not retracted fully.

Floyd R Turbo
03-20-2011, 01:11 PM
Here's some pics to give you an idea of what NOT to do. This is how the tank plumbing was set up (NOT by me)

Here's the tube from the bulkhead to the jets.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9382.jpg

and the inside of that tube after years of operation

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9385.jpg

This tube goes from 3/4" threaded to 3/4" hose barb at the bulkhead end to a combo hose barb-3/4" and 90 to female threaded, which is the major choke point.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9383.jpg

The inside diameter of a 3/4" hose barb insert is about 1/2". Similarly, I had replaced the 3/4" tubing from the pump to bulkhead with the same, 3/4" tubing and hose barb/threaded adapters.

Here's the drain, it actually was 1", I guess my eyes were tricking me into thinking it was 3/4".

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9386.jpg

And here's the pump after 5-1/2 months since the last cleaning

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9381.jpg

The pump smelled like a sewer. Not as bad as it did the first time I cleaned it when I took over the tank though. That time made me gag, I seriously thought I was going to hurl.

Here's the new plumbing setup

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-18/IMG_9377.jpg

Here's the new tube run from pump to bulkhead

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9389.jpg

and from bulkhead to jets

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9387.jpg

Since the 3/4" threaded goes to a 1" hose barb, the inner diameter of that fitting is the same all the way through. Also, the 90 to the jets is a 1" female to 1" male, then a bushing to reduce the female to 3/4" for the jets. That means that the overall minimum ID of this is 3/4" (ID of the 3/4" threaded connector) vs 1/2" (3/4" hose barb connector), which is an increase of (0.75^2)/(0.5^2) = 2.25 or 125% more cross section. The maximum hose diameter went from 3/4" to 1-1/4", so that's (1.25^2)/(0.75^2) = 2.77 or 177% increase.

The Danner Manufacturing pump curve for the Mag12 http://www.dannermfg.com/instructionsheets/ZG100.PDF says that at 6 feet of head, you should get 950 GPH as long as you use 1.5" return piping.

So I would have to say that I'm pretty happy that I'm now getting 760 GPH. So now instead of 433 GPH (when cleaned on 10/10/10, it was 380 when I tested it last week) and <20 GPH/in on the 20" screen, I am getting OVER 35 GPH/in of flow. :D

I expect that since the piping will 'slime up' over the next year, that the true maximum flow will eventually decrease by about 10%, putting it near 700 GPH, but it's a far cry better than the 433 max I was getting.

Also, here's a few YouTube videos that illustrate the difference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPlkxy97ySk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zh8s3LiDNs

I also replaced the jets, because I had another set on hand...

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9391.jpg

And I almost forgot, here's the screen

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9378.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9379.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/2011-03-19/IMG_9380.jpg

Getting better, slowly recovering. We'll see what doubling the flow does for growth and for phosphates, which have never been below 0.10 in this tank.

SantaMonica
03-20-2011, 02:29 PM
That's pretty much how my screen looks most of the time, unless I over feed, which give a week of green forest.

Floyd R Turbo
03-22-2011, 08:44 PM
Ok, now I have a new problem. SM, maybe you can give me some insight here.

The flow rate of the pump has increased to 760 GPH. Before, the screen could handle the full flow rate, because it was so low. Now, when I run the pump wide open, it fills the overflow almost completely. The open standpipe in the overflow box has at least 6 inches of water over it, so it basically runs at full capacity. The problem is that the sump level is now very low, because the pump pushes the water up into the DT. This is fine, until the owner sees the low level in the sump and adds 3 gallons of water, which happened today. The pump pushed it all up into the DT so that the relative level of sump to DT was the same. The DT was within 1/4" of overflowing. Luckily, it didn't. But basically, the ATS slot tube is restricting the overflow rate such that it could overflow the tank. This is not good. If I could add another emergency standpipe like for a Herbie like you run, this would be no problem, the head pressure would keep the screen flow great and the overflow would never, well, overflow. Right now, I have to either dial the pump back, or crack open the ATS bypass to keep the water level in the DT down.

If I open the bypass for the ATS, the overflow box drains right down to the open standpipe. So I have the proper flow rate that I need - 20" wide screen, 35+ GPH/in - but it seems now that this is too much. I still am running the notched slot tube, I haven't had time to cut a new slot tube. This time, I will be doing it with a router and a jig to hold the tube so it will be a truly straight cut. Also, I'm not 100% confident that the current slot is actually 1/8", it might be slightly smaller and I know it's uneven. But I'm worried that a non-crosscut tube will require even more head pressure to push 760 GPH. Isn't 35 GPH/in the minimum flow? How in the world would you get higher flow than that, if mine can't push 35 without 4 feet of water column over it?

SantaMonica
03-23-2011, 09:23 AM
Even a tuned-overflow ("herbie") will increase level at the overflow if you put more water in the sump.

The only way to increase flow through a scrubber pipe is to widen or lenghen the slot.

Floyd R Turbo
03-27-2011, 05:42 PM
I worked on tuning the system using the pump shutoff, for now it seems to be doing fine. I plan on replacing the slot tube eventually so that will have to happen sooner than later.

But, the big news it the mega-harvest. Pics and video below

Here's what it looked like Saturday

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9686.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9685.jpg

And today

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9712.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9713.jpg

Drained and lightly compacted

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9716.jpg

3 CUPS

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/Customer%201%20-%20125%20Reef/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_9715.jpg

I didn't have a scale or I would have totally weighed it. When I pulled out the slot tube, I swear it was about 5 pounds. I'm going to have to find a cheap digital scale.

Check out these YouTube vids of the cleaning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXhYfY2gvi8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvJfKnSNpWQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeVQk4jUOKI

I like the last one best, because I use a new scraper instead of my fingernails and it was totally quick and easy. It also got the red turf off very easily. I prefer this to the hacksaw blade method, because it doesn't think your screen out. Plus I don't think you need to rough the screen up after the screen has a layer of algae encrusted on it, that forms the base. At least, that's my opinion. This screen was so thick and heavy, and the lower 1/2 of it was out of the laminar flow, yet the algae still hung on.

My next build (yes, I will be replacing this one) will not allow for the box to be flooded. I am starting to wonder if 3D growth is really all it's cracked up to be. Laminar flow is really all that matters, 3D just ends up slowing down the flow below the water line and increasing the boundary layer effect.

SantaMonica
03-27-2011, 07:44 PM
Did you increase feeding last week, as a test to see if depleted nutrients were the cause of less growth before?

Floyd R Turbo
03-27-2011, 10:39 PM
Originally I thought the problem was low food, so I upped the feeding, then realized the dino outbreak was caused by the bad water, so he cut back on feeding to about 1 sq inch of DIY food per day, and I stopped using my RO/DI water and switched to Wal-Mart/Culligan water. The screen still had a bit of brown on it at the last cleaning (during the plumbing change) but I would have to say that the increased growth is 100% flow related.

Nitrates tested perfectly clear from the side (Salifert) and the Hanna Phosphate meter tested 0.09, which seems to be the lowest it ever goes. I think I will have to run a couple tests with that meter, using distilled water from the store as a baseline, because my home RO/DI water right after changing the filters read 0.09 also. Or maybe I'll pop for the Phosphorus meter, which tests in ppb.

Floyd R Turbo
04-24-2011, 10:55 AM
You have to remove it to clean it, unless you can put a bucket underneath the drain and then scrape or brush the inside, then wash it out. If you have an acrylic box then use a plastic scraper, don't use 3M scrubbies or anything else that will scratch it and cause light blocking.

Floyd R Turbo
05-24-2011, 08:41 AM
Ok, 1 week + in the bag, one extra tear-down and setup (last Wed) to fix the stand, and I've finally got everything running. Algae scrubber is all ghetto on top of the tank and loud, but functional. To the pics:

These are before the scrubber was set up, so the screens are just hanging in the tank for survival:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-19/IMG_0088.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-19/IMG_0090.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-19/IMG_0092.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-19/IMG_0094.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-19/IMG_0096.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-19/IMG_0098.jpg

So far, a few corals have taken a hit. The War Coral turned white on top but I think it was just ticked off, because it is turning back to normal. The big ORA Green Birdsnest died off quite a bit on the tips, but the rest is doing awesome. The Kryptonite Candy Cane started to show some signs of death on a few heads, but that seems to have stopped.

Interestingly, the 2 Frogspawns and the Branching Hammer are doing much better, in the other tank I think the clowns were trying to host on them and ticking them off.

Everything else is clicking along without skipping a beat. But, the true test is yet to come. I'm sure there is a cycle of some kind happening as a result of moving everything and changing flow patterns, light coverage, etc.

Here is the scrubber setup:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-23/IMG_0110.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-23/IMG_0113.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-23/IMG_0111.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-23/IMG_0114.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-23/IMG_0115.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-05-23/IMG_0116.jpg

This is the one from the old setup (40 breeder sump) so like I said, totally ghetto and loud because of the way I made the drains. So I have to re-build it or figure out a way to silence it. I'm going to raise the 90s tonight so that they terminate at the surface rather than below it and see how that helps, should eliminate the short-siphon effect that is probably generating the most noise.

SantaMonica
05-24-2011, 10:07 AM
You might also be able to try some of the bubble-reducing things:

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/UnderOverUnderPipe.jpg

Floyd R Turbo
05-24-2011, 10:15 AM
Good ideas. I am actually not at all concerned about the bubbles, since the "microbubbles" issue is pretty much a myth. I just need to quiet the thing down. Right now the drains terminate well below the surface. Without those 90 bends, then water just dumping directly into the tank was actually pretty quiet. Adding the 90s creates a partial trap and the speed of the drain water causes a constant partial siphon, which sounds like a toilet that is constantly gurgling like at the end of a flush.

Floyd R Turbo
05-24-2011, 12:04 PM
There is another thing I wanted to touch on here, maybe someone can give me some insight. This tank has always had low N (0 before and after scrubber, with 0.10 'spike' during the week before and after when I took out the skimmer and started the scrubber) and the P has always been present. Usually around 0.10 to 0.15, never more than 0.20 and never less than 0.09.

When I tore down the tank on Sunday, we rinsed the sand thoroughly, and re-used as much water as possible, pouring off the clean water and tossing whatever had settled out in the buckets and tubs. We had to tear down a second time on Wednesday. So that's where it's at now.

I tested the water on 5/19 and P was 0.63, N was about 2.5 or so. On 5/22, P was 0.49. Weird that P dropped, could be error in the test procedure, but that's not why I'm posting this.

It made me wonder exactly where all this P is coming from. Before the scrubber, the P on Salifert kit was always 0.1 or more, maybe as high as 0.25 (hard to read that kit), the lowest was when I was running RowaPHOS, and that lasted a few months before that ran out. So it's been down below 0.25 or less for well over a year.

The P before that was higher, maybe 1 or 2, who knows.

Where is all this P coming from now???

How long does it take to leech P out of the rocks?

SantaMonica
05-24-2011, 01:42 PM
It's die-off from the move.

Ace25
05-24-2011, 01:47 PM
Personally, I would never recommend a liquid test kit for testing Phosphates. No where near accurate enough for our needs. I have the big $200 Hanna PO4 checker and it has been one of the best investments I have made. Paid for itself real quick when I way buying GFO all the time. I can't recommend the $50 Hanna meter though, too many issues. No matter how many times I tried I would either get 0.00 or something way higher than my big meter would say, and this was doing back to back tests. Not reliable at all and from others I know that bought the $50 meters, they all say the same thing. Waste of $. I always shoot for .03 or below and no liquid test kit will ever give you that level of accuracy.

Phosphates can leach out of rocks for quite some time. When I moved it took about 6 weeks of leeching. Before I moved I was always .01-.03 for a solid year, days after the move it was 1.0+ and stayed above .5 for over 6 weeks, even with GFO changed 2x a week, telling me phosphates were leaching out for quite a while. Needless to say, I lost over $5000 in SPS corals from the move which was just a few minutes away.

Floyd R Turbo
05-24-2011, 01:55 PM
I bet the Xenia and Anthelia are loving it.

I still wonder why I could not bring it down below 0.09 while everything was in the original tank. Even after jumping up the flow to 780 GPH (where it should have been) and widening the slot tube, getting good growth, sticking to the 3-month bulb replacement schedule, etc. Shouldn't the scrubber take N and P down to zero?

Ace25: I'm testing with a Hanna Phosphate Photometer. The $50 one. I've done the test over 20 times on different tanks, and I seem to get consistent results, like I said it usually test 0.09 or 0.15 on this tank. Once I tested distilled water and got 0.03. I tested someone else's tank after they treated with chemi-clean (and got a whitish haze in the tank) and his tested 0. When you remove the reagent vial you can usually eyeball it and tell prety closely what the reading should have been for cross-verification.

I would say that the 0.63 and 0.49 readings match up pretty well with the vial coloration after the test is ran. When it was 0.09 or so, it was a very light blue. On that other cloudy tank there was no color at all (could have been chemical reaction neutralizing the reagent). My point is that I know there are phosphates always present in this tank and I haven't been able to figure out why. The current bloom is easily attributable to the move.

Ace25
05-24-2011, 04:42 PM
One thing about N and P is they are tied together. Without one present, the other one will not drop. If you have only 2.5 N or below, and .5 phosphates, I would say that N is the limiting factor in why P will not drop. I had this problem myself and found feeding very heavy (rinsing food in RO/DI first) was able to get N up to 5-10 range, then P started coming down much faster using just an ATS for N/P reduction.

SantaMonica
05-24-2011, 07:17 PM
That's possible, but the fly in the ointment is feedings, especially liquid. Each feeding brings up the lowest limiting nutrient. I don't know how much N or P is in a cube of food, or a ml of liquid, but it would be fun to find out.

Floyd R Turbo
05-24-2011, 07:39 PM
Yes I think SM told me that you have a very hard time being limited by N or P if you are feeding, esp a good quality food. I'm feeding a DIY food that is much like Rod's.

Floyd R Turbo
06-07-2011, 10:14 AM
Video of tank and scrubber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIyOwAjEl0s

Water quality has return to 0 ppm Nitrates and steady at 0.14 ppm Phosphate. Same problem that I had in the last setup, Phosphate seems to hit a floor around 0.09-0.16. The growth is fantastic, I feed a chunk of food 1 square inch by about 3/8" thick of DIY food (like Rod's) every day, the scrubber took the P down from .63 or something to .13 in less than 2 weeks, but it won't budge off of that.

So what do you think, am I Nitrate limited? Start Iron dosing again?

SantaMonica
06-07-2011, 11:40 AM
Try adding some nitrate. I got some Calcium Nitrate at AquariumFertilizer.com for a few bucks.

Floyd R Turbo
06-07-2011, 12:02 PM
On order. I can only theorize that the sheer quantity of LR in the system contributes to de-nitrification and that is the limiter. The way I know this is that when I took over the tank (in it's original location) the N was 160-200, I took it down to about 20-25 with PWCs and the rock/skimmer took it down the rest of the way on it's own. After the move (which included tearing down and setting up a 2nd time) and no scrubber for a week, the N only rose to about 5-7.5 max, which the scrubber took care of in no time once I got in running. I would love to see zero P in this tank and see if it makes a difference.

Floyd R Turbo
06-18-2011, 02:39 PM
Ok, I sold a couple of big rocks that were covered with Xenia and Anthelia. So this is mainly a tank update to show everyone this mixed-reef tank, scrubber going on 8 months. Keep in mind I had to move the entire setup into this tank about 1 month ago, and had to tear it down 3 days later and fix the stand then set it all back up again. Lost 1 fish (small yellowtail blue damsel was eaten by the banded jawfish) and only one Zoa that doesn't look so good, a few other things recovering from prolonged out-of water time (oops).

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02071.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02073.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02074.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02075.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02076.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02077.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02078.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02079.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02080.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02081.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02082.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02083.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02084.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02085.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02086.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02087.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02088.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02089.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02090.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02098.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02099.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02101.jpg

Top of tank scrubber

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02108.jpg

Intake basket

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02107.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02106.jpg

Far side drain

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02105.jpg

Super-ultra ghetto bubble reducer mod: removed PVC drain and cut 1L bottle to act as a splashguard and drain water guide, then added the mega ultra-high-tech 2L bottle bubble trap and diffuser system

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02104.jpg

The 2L bottle will soon be replaced with something like a box made from egg crate with some bio-balls in to break up the water from the scrubber and trap bubbles. I just haven't had the time, and this works fine for now. Found the Banded Jawfish trapped in the 2L bottle yesterday though. That was pretty funny.

Anyways, here's the near-drain, which still has the PVC in it so this is a 'high' drain, and as you can (maybe) see it only starts draining very slowly after about day 4 or 5, by day 7 it's going pretty good.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02109.jpg

If you can tell, this is day 4 and the bottom inch or so is 3D

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02110.jpg

Top of screen

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02111.jpg

Shot of the 'low' drain

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-06-18/DSC02112.jpg

SantaMonica
06-18-2011, 05:26 PM
I'm gonna have to try some xenia again....

Floyd R Turbo
06-18-2011, 09:06 PM
Keep in mind that this tank appears to be N limited. P hits a floor of about 0.09 and is usually no lower than 0.13. Going to start dosing N, got my stuff from aquarium fertilizer that you recommended, but I don't know how much to dose (did not come with instructions)

SantaMonica
06-19-2011, 12:05 AM
Well the P I got from them was extremely powerful... one spoonful put the 100 gal at P = 1.0 for over 6 months.

Floyd R Turbo
06-24-2011, 07:38 AM
You want some Xenia? I've heard they don't ship well but I want to rid this tank of them completely and I can't seem to give these away. I heard they don't ship well but I've got to frag some for another guy and put them on rubble rock so you can be my test-shipper :D

Back to the tank, I have been dealing with a recurring issue. The 2 Frogspawns, the Branching Hammer, and the ORA Green Birdsnest have been clamping up. This is a problem that came up before when it was in the original tank. Having been able to see the tank dynamics day to day, I have noticed a definitive pattern.

When I move the entire system, and was just hanging the screen in the tank to keep it alive, everything opened up huge, more than in months. the N went up to 5 or so in that week, and P went up to about 0.63. I installed the scrubber, and within 2 weeks they started clamping up again. N=0 and P=0.09-0.16 (bottomed out).

What I noticed is that within a day or so of cleaning the screen, they start to open up again. They get to the point where they are about 1/2 way fully open about 3 or 4 days after screen cleaning, then start to go backwards. By the end of the week, they are fully clamped up. I just cleaned the screen for the 4th time so I've had the tank setup running for about 6 weeks and this is a definite pattern related to scrubber cleaning.

When I cleaned off the screen this time, I did it very thoroughly. I tried to remove all red algae and leave only what is in the squares behind.

Other SPS/LPS have zero issues. Any thoughts?

SantaMonica
06-24-2011, 01:05 PM
Well it's the first time I've heard of the opening-closing pattern, but it does coincide with the known pattern of nutrient spikes after cleaning the whole screen. Maybe if you can clean just half the screen each time and see if anything changes.

Floyd R Turbo
06-24-2011, 02:10 PM
Well, that might be the case if they were closing up after cleaning the screen. They are opening up after cleaning the screen. As if they like the additional nutrients? In fact, they look better today, and I just cleaned the screen last night. It's as if something that builds up on the algae screen is irritating to them. Or maybe it's the amount of 3D growth and a lowering of O2 or something?

SantaMonica
06-24-2011, 03:40 PM
It's the nutrients; they go up after a cleaning. Works good for softies. No reasoning on the birdsnet, though.

Floyd R Turbo
06-24-2011, 06:18 PM
Maybe this is something I'm not getting about corals then. Frogspawn and Branching Hammer are LPS. I thought LPS liked cleaner water i.e. low nutrients?

Ace25
06-24-2011, 06:23 PM
Maybe this is something I'm not getting about corals then. Frogspawn and Branching Hammer are LPS. I thought LPS liked cleaner water i.e. low nutrients?
Honestly, I think that is a complete myth and I have no idea how or why it started.... corals liking cleaner water. If I were to guess I would say that when saying came out (70's/80's) the concept of "cleaner water" was much different than today. Now we know SPS corals like the most nutrient rich water, and actually consume more food from the water than any other type of coral. Maybe back in the 70's when people said "cleaner water" they meant something along the lines of RO/DI water vs Tap water and also no ammonia/nitrites and low nitrates (under 100) and low phosphates (under 2.5). Today those things are a given and almost any properly running tank will have good RO/DI water to start with, no ammonia or nitrites, and very low Nitrates (under 10)/Phosphates (under .1) compared to 30+ years ago. Just my thoughts on the matter.

SantaMonica
06-24-2011, 07:23 PM
I seem to notice that they act more like softies when it comes to scrubbers/growing. I think it's the large amount of fleshy material involved, which absorbs DOC/nutrients from the water.

Floyd R Turbo
06-24-2011, 07:30 PM
Maybe this is something I'm not getting about corals then. Frogspawn and Branching Hammer are LPS. I thought LPS liked cleaner water i.e. low nutrients?
Honestly, I think that is a complete myth and I have no idea how or why it started.... corals liking cleaner water. If I were to guess I would say that when saying came out (70's/80's) the concept of "cleaner water" was much different than today. Now we know SPS corals like the most nutrient rich water, and actually consume more food from the water than any other type of coral. Maybe back in the 70's when people said "cleaner water" they meant something along the lines of RO/DI water vs Tap water and also no ammonia/nitrites and low nitrates (under 100) and low phosphates (under 2.5). Today those things are a given and almost any properly running tank will have good RO/DI water to start with, no ammonia or nitrites, and very low Nitrates (under 10)/Phosphates (under .1) compared to 30+ years ago. Just my thoughts on the matter.

I think it has been well documented that most corals, especially SPS, prefer water that low in Nitrate and Phosphate. Most information I've read says that P over 0.10 will slow or stop most coral growth, and I'm pretty sure that there is plenty of data to verify this.

I think when you say this idea of 'clean' water going back decades, I think it's more recent, and really put forth by the pro-skimmer community, because skimming does indeed clear up the water nicely. Saying 'dirty' water can mean 1) high N and P, or 2) lots of food particles floating around, making the water appear, well, not 'clean'. When I was saying 'dirty' I was thinking of slightly more N and P than normal. I tested today, and as usual, rock solid N=0.0 and P=0.16. After the 4th of July, I will start dosing N to see if I can get P to drop.

DesignsOnline
06-25-2011, 12:04 PM
I love the removable front section Idea on your scrubber.
It is a brilliant idea, I will have to think if I can incorporate something similar in mine.

Trouble with that on mine is that I will be building boxed in compartments at the front
and back with mirrored accrylic facing inwards to reflect all of the light back on to the screens.

I would have to think carfully to see if I can find a watertight way of doing it...
Well done on your good work.

Floyd R Turbo
06-25-2011, 02:06 PM
The front cover idea was an epic failure as it warped in no time and had to be held on by zip-ties, then when I started getting 3D growth the salt creep was wicked. I replaced it with an inner/outer box which has worked better, but still warped. In the end the SM100 is the most robust design I've seen so far.

DesignsOnline
06-25-2011, 03:15 PM
The front cover idea was an epic failure as it warped in no time and had to be held on by zip-ties, then when I started getting 3D growth the salt creep was wicked. I replaced it with an inner/outer box which has worked better, but still warped. In the end the SM100 is the most robust design I've seen so far.

im not sure where I can see a blueprint for the SM100 but what do you thin of my proposed design here: http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1362 ?
I was going to remove the top of the pipe to allow the screen to be removed from above by sliding the screen out through the slot in the pipe, do you think this is a good idea?

Floyd R Turbo
07-16-2011, 05:39 PM
Tank update. Fragged out or threw out all the Xenia and Anthelia I could reach. Rearranged. Much better, more room for the corals that need it

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0194.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0197.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0195.jpg

Frag rack of Xenia for a few people who want them

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0198.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0199.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0201.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0202.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0203.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0204.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0206.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0207.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0208.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0209.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-16/IMG_0210.jpg

Tomorrow I'm getting some Orange Monti Caps, Orange Digitata, another hammer, and a purple plate coral. Just in time for all the room I just made!

Screen update.

Had a great week of growth but no time for a pic. I was gone the week leading up to the 4th and had someone taking care of the tank, but on the night of the 4th a fish got into the basket and got sucked onto the pump intake. Screen flow was choked down to about 5-10% of normal flow. Got it unplugged but no time to clean until the next day, here's what it looked like:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_0184.jpg

And in the box

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/IMG_0185.jpg

Lots of dead algae. P went up to about 0.33. Day 3 after cleaning, down to 0.09 (floor, again) and everything opening way, way up.

Floyd R Turbo
07-17-2011, 07:37 PM
Got the new corals today

Purple Plate

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-17/IMG_0225.jpg

Hammer

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-17/IMG_0223.jpg

Orange Cap (turns out my Red Caps are the same)

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-17/IMG_0222.jpg

Orange Digi

Free Frag of Pink Poccilopora!!

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-17/IMG_0220.jpg

SantaMonica
07-17-2011, 10:19 PM
Love those orange caps... they are taking over my tank and today I had to through away a few handfuls.

Floyd R Turbo
07-21-2011, 07:37 PM
Tank Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrNvqtk7t18

Scrubber growth videos - massive growth week!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex8q7cmyAAE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stg81RRbnpI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsq9emsFSy4

This is the second week in a row of extremely high growth.

The purple plate coral extended out about 1/2" all around today. It must really like these tank conditions!

SantaMonica
07-22-2011, 10:35 AM
Nice :)

I think what happened is when your flow got cutoff, filtering went down and allowed some nutrients to buildup.

Floyd R Turbo
07-22-2011, 01:02 PM
You would think so, but it had to be something besides N and P, 'cause those were both down to normal range within days of cleaning the partially dead screen. Since then, it's been 2 weeks of stellar growth like I've never seen. I've never owned a plate coral before, but the purple plate extends it's soft tissue out at least 1cm all around it's skeleton by mid-light cycle and polyps fully extended. I've never seen this on any of the plate corals in the LFS's zero-edge tank, which is your typical filtration system.

Floyd R Turbo
07-22-2011, 01:08 PM
I forgot to mention that I found that the hacksaw blade did not work at all for cleaning the bulk of the algae off. The pink plastic scraper, of the 'pampered chef' pan scraper, still works the best for the thick, heavy algae growth I am getting. I did follow that with the hacksaw blade this time however, because there was a large patch, about 1/4 of the total screen area, that seemed to have less algae growing on it, and the holes were not filled in. This area cleaned off pretty thoroughly after the near-death experience, it still grows in well, but the screen material was visible for a couple square inches right around that spot, so I dragged the hacksaw blade in all directions over all the screen. I figured I haven't done that at all since last October when I started the screen, so it was about time. We'll see if that changes anything...

Floyd R Turbo
07-29-2011, 05:40 AM
Here's the latest screen cleaning. Growth was actually more than it was last week in that video

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02378.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02379.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02380.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02381.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02382.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02383.jpg

Also, the banded jawfish and/or engineer goby decided to return my sun coral to the front of the tank. It has been AWOL for a good couple weeks.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-22/IMG_0231.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/2011-07-22/IMG_0232.jpg

As soon as the lights went off, polyps extended out huge. I haven't target fed this coral in about 10 months. For those who don't know, this is an NPS (non-photosynthetic) so it only gets it's food from the water column.

Floyd R Turbo
08-04-2011, 06:25 PM
Here's today's harvest - 3rd week in a row of stellar growth!

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02387.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02388.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02389.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Aquarium%20Pics/120%20Reef/Temp%20Setup/ATS%20Weekly%20Growth/DSC02390.jpg

Floyd R Turbo
08-15-2011, 09:46 PM
It appear that I am winning the long-term battle on P. Today, it tested P=0.02, just a week and a half after the lowest reading I've ever seen on this tank of 0.07.

The odd thing is, I'm getting that dino outbreak again. It got bad towards the end of the last screen period, so I changed the lamps (about 3-4 weeks over 3 months) and they went away, then have started to come back. Frogspawn and Hammers clamped up again, ORG Green Birdsnest too. New plate coral seems affected as well.

I cut back feeding a bit, like last time, but why am I getting dinos?

SantaMonica
08-15-2011, 10:46 PM
Dino's are from nutrients in the water, not in the rocks. A quick spike in the water for a few hours will cause a dino bloom. They grow quick, which is why they are the first to populate a new screen.

So, you probably have varying nutrient amounts in your water. This certainly would happen after a cleaning if you cleaned the whole screen. It also would happen right after a big feeding.

Floyd R Turbo
08-16-2011, 05:40 AM
Makes sense, but why now? I've been feeding a large piece of DIY food, roughly 1 square inch, 1/4" thick, or roughly 6-8 cubes each day. There have been no other problems with dinos on a regular basis. I had 3 weeks of stellar growth on the screen, then last week, dinos everywhere, at the 7 day point on the screen. I blew everything off with a turkey baster and cleaned the screen and for the next few days everything was back to normal (except the frogspawn/hammer). Now day 5 (I clean on Thursday) the screen is slimy brown, and the war coral and a few others which normally extend polyps right away at lights out are fully contracted too. This happened last week also when I was still feeding a lot, then went back to normal the night after cleaning the screen, so it doesn't appear to be feeding related. Turkey baster blasted last night, this AM the birdsnest is covered in it. That one is really badly contracted for the last few days.

SantaMonica
08-16-2011, 07:29 AM
The high growth, which needed high nutrients, occurred right before the diatoms. So something organic was dying at that time, and started trying to ramp up a nutrient spike, which your scrubber was able to keep at bay for the most part. But once your screen maxed out, the excess nutrients started increasing in the water, which affected your corals. That's where you are at now.

Floyd R Turbo
08-16-2011, 07:37 AM
Are we talking dinos or diatoms, I'm confused. I've definitely got dinos, brown snotty slimy strings with bubbles attached.

The other things that changed right before the screen started producing thick green record growth for 3 weeks was

1) switched to my own RO/DI water after fixing RO/DI unit
2) switched to older DIY food (made about a year ago) and now using one I currently made at the end of last month
3) got rid of all the Xenia and Anthelia (still have 2 frags for you)
4) screen partially died on 7/4 and P went up to about 0.3 or so, but dropped right down to 0.09 within days

So the nutrients you are talking about, are they the ones the test kit cannot 'see'? Like I said, I never see N, ever, and P has always hovered between 0.16 and 0.09, and now has dropped to 0.02. So what nutrients are causing the dinos?

What organic matter could be decaying that is causing such a spike? All corals and fish accounted for. Maybe some sponges or something else deep in the rock pile?

Floyd R Turbo
08-16-2011, 03:42 PM
Ok it's getting pretty severe now. All the corals are pretty much clamped up. Screen is really brown. Going to clean it today and try to manually siphon out as much of the dinos as I can, then cut the photoperiod to 4 hours and start dosing Alk more to raise the pH. I heard that dosing kalk can help too but I don't have immediate access (or time) to do that.

SantaMonica
08-16-2011, 08:12 PM
I've been through this before, after killing large amounts of things one way or another.

You don't want to cut photo period in a display; that just puts more nutrients into the water, which is what hurts corals and caused even darker scrubber growth. Adding more CUC causes the same thing. If anything, increase the period. You want the nuisance algae / periphyton to stay alive and grow in the display, so as to absorb nutrients. And stop all feeding.

Manually removing nuisance algae will work. Waterchange, GFO, Polyfilter too. Even extra bulbs on the scrubber, or a temporary extra scrubber. If the scrubber is black, you can go to 24 hour lighting and clean it as soon as the screen holes get covered up.

Whatever is decaying is big and will probably last a few weeks. Now would be a good time to vacuum / blow off the display, especially behind the rocks. And make sure nothing is rotting in the sump.

Floyd R Turbo
08-16-2011, 09:09 PM
I just discovered something else that may or may not have contributed, when I took the scrubber off and changed the lamps, I bumped the timer over ride switch to "ON" so it's been on 24/7 for the past 5 days. I just fixed it. The growth wasn't black today when I cleaned it, just lots of dinos/diatoms and little GHA, but there was some. The bubble-blocker was packed with dinos and overflowing. I sucked out about 3 gallons of water & dinos using airline tubing and then mixed up some fresh RC and added some Alk to it to try to boost the pH.

I'll try upping the photoperiod like you said (seem opposite to everything I've read, why is that?) I wish I could figure out what is so big that it is decaying, all the fish are accounted for and no missing big corals...maybe a group of snails bit the dust or something.

Floyd R Turbo
08-16-2011, 09:10 PM
Also no sump, top of tank scrubber with not so good light blocking, so the tank is essentially under strong moonlight at night.

SantaMonica
08-16-2011, 09:28 PM
Well.

The 24 hour thing is the answer. You have been losing filtering over the past 5 days. Not increasing nutrients.

Still, the things I mentioned will bring nutrients back down. Light that is shining on autotrophs (algae, periphyton) cause them to consume nutrients. Your rocks are covered in periphyton; that's why they are not white. So more light = less nutrients.

A scrubber cleaning, with fixed timer, should have things back in a a few days (since there is no dying thing).

Floyd R Turbo
08-17-2011, 05:27 AM
The dinos showed up before that happened though, unless the switch has been "ON" for longer than that. Hard to say now. I had the timer set on an odd cycle, 12 on, 3 off, 3 on, 3 off, so the tank had a solid downtime at night since the top-of-tank was lighting up the whole tank (not a lot, but enough IMO). It was working just fine, but I switched it to 18/6 reverse cycle just in case.

Floyd R Turbo
08-17-2011, 06:43 AM
Should I still extend the photoperiod on the DT, or leave it as is? It's an 8 lamp 48" T5HO with 4 ATI Blue+ on the first branch that runs 12:30pm-9:30pm and 2 ATI Purple +, one ATI Blue + and one Giesmann Aquablue on the other branch that runs 1:30pm-8:30pm.

Also should I still discontinue all feeding and for how long?

According to this http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php dinos suck up the nutrients quickly, which I assume is why they suggest a shortened photoperiod. But I suppose all of that is written without factoring in an algae scrubber. Since dinos are photosynthetic plankton essentially, it would seem logical that the algae scrubber will out-compete them eventually. With all the snotty slime on the screen, it almost seems like the scrubber gave them a place to grow, because the 1L bottle with the bio-balls in it that I use to reduce bubbles - look in this video at 5:30 and you'll get a glimpse of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrNvqtk7t18 - was clogged with dinos and was overflowing into the outer box of the scrubber, not a lot, but it has never done that before since I've had this set up. The screen was covered in brown slime that easily washed away, leaving some red turf and GHA which I only lightly scraped, leaving plenty on there.

The war coral did not open up after lights out again last night, but a few of the others did slightly. Still could see bubbles held by dinos everywhere in the tank, even after 2 passes of siphoning with the airhose, and the birdsnest seems like a perfect snagging point, strings of dinos all over it, plus it's at the highest point of the tank which probably isn't helping it.

If I wasn't moving this tank again (back to the dentist's office) in a couple months when the new tank comes in, I would re-do the area around the scrubber pump and make it an overflow box with an area where I can put some mechanical and chemical filtration media and get some surface skimming. If this doesn't go away soon, that might be the next step.

SantaMonica
08-17-2011, 02:20 PM
The display can only be overdriven temporarily, or the corals suffer. Choose what you want: Corals or dino's.

Yes dino's are fast. A shorter period negates this, and puts nutreints back into the water where it hurts corals. Since your scrubber was not filtering, the dinos could grow anywhere. Your P was probably 1.0. That's how fast the scrubber was consuming P. When consuming stops, it backs up quick.

You could also put an ounce of vodka in. Will bring the P right down.

Floyd R Turbo
08-17-2011, 09:09 PM
Well that's the odd thing. On Monday, 4 days after cleaning and all of that with 24 hr lighting, possibly a week more than that, the PO4 was 0.02, so it had dropped.

Everything looks better today. Minimal siphoning of dinos needed. polyps extended at right now. No feeding today, DT lights 12 hrs (blues) & 10 hrs (others).

Floyd R Turbo
08-25-2011, 07:35 PM
A full week with the DT lights on 12/10 and ATS 18/6 reverse cycle and dinos are completely eradicated. Corals are fine, except the hammers took a beating - one head on the 10 head one is about 1/2 gone.

I couldn't clean the scrubber on day 7 so went to day 8 (yesterday), I did a thorough cleaning of the screen, took a stiff brush to it gently and got all the red algae off. It was probably the deepest cleaning I have ever done on the screen, but I wanted to see if the frogspawns and hammers would open back up, and they did. By the time I got home today, one of the frogspawns was really opened up, the other about 1/2 way, and the hammers started to recover and open up.

Going to test right now...

Floyd R Turbo
10-27-2011, 10:15 AM
Just an update since I haven't posted one in a while:

The dino outbreak seems under control. The problems were flow related I believe, the power heads were all gummed up and my scrubber intake system does not skim the surface. So cleaning the PHs and re-directing them seems to have helped. Due to the top-of-tank setup without light blocking, I am getting some red cyano growth but it is not rampant, I have had to siphon it off twice over a month.

The new tank arrived a few weeks ago and we put it up on the stand where it has been sitting while I complete the sump

Here is the sump, which is now done:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Acrylic%20Projects/30g%20Sump/DSC03010.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Acrylic%20Projects/30g%20Sump/DSC03014.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Acrylic%20Projects/30g%20Sump/DSC03011.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Acrylic%20Projects/30g%20Sump/DSC03012.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt191/FloydRTurbo/2011%20Acrylic%20Projects/30g%20Sump/DSC03013.jpg

This is really my first major acrylic project and I have to say that all the studying and prep work I did has paid off 100%. This sump is made for 3000GPH of flow and the existing scrubber will span the sump, will have a 1.5" pipe drain system that should be dead silent and lead into a bubble diffuser that sits inside the sump.

I'll post a few shots of the new tank when I stop up there next, it is a 144 Miracles 66Lx21Wx24H (actual capacity 125) with a notched end and external overflow box for a 3-pipe Beananimal silent and fail-safe drain system, a Reefflo Dart external return pump, and the scrubber will be fed with a Mag5. I decided to do a pump-fed scrubber for a few reasons, first being that I didn't want to deal with balancing the flow to the scrubber, and second since I've been running it pump fed on the temp setup I guess I prefer that method now. Also since the tank will have an open weir at one end, which will have almost an inch of flow over the top of it, there is a much greater chance for a fish riding the pipe and I wanted the sump to be a safe haven in that case.

The scrubber pump will set in the intake chamber so it will need to be shielded to prevent any buddies getting sucked onto the intake. Then the intake for the return pump will have another layer of shielding, both of these likely a section of #10 plastic canvas.

The system I came up with for retrofitting the existing scrubber in necessitated some creative engineering. The head room above the sump to the underside of the stand was exactly enough to be able to remove the inner scrubber box, but there's not enough room for the male/female PVC drain fittings. This turns out to be just fine. What i have discovered with the top-of-tank arrangement (I have one drain in, the other out that drops into bio-balls above the tank) is that the system is very silent when there's no drain plumbing to create the sucking sound. So I am going to have a piece of 1.5" PVC pipe positioned directly below the holes in the inner box, one into a 90 and a 19" long pipe that meets up with a tee that is below the other hole, and both will drain into the bubble diffuser contraption I came up with last night (on paper).

Since I will have to re-plumb the scrubber pipe to make everything fit, I am going to cut the slot tube the RIGHT way (yes, it still has remnants of crosscuts, I've been doing it wrong this WHOLE TIME) and probably shorten the width of the screen slightly (like 1/2" total, maybe).

And of course, I have to move all the LR and inhabitants.....

Floyd R Turbo
12-19-2011, 01:48 PM
Well I've really slacked on keeping this thread up to date. Install is done and scrubber is back online. I'm going to start a new thread for the new tank. Will post the link after I get it started.

Floyd R Turbo
12-19-2011, 02:35 PM
new thread started

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1789 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1789)