LED Scrubbers

[SantaMonica]

Since the search function on this forum does not work very well, here are the LED-powered scrubber threads so far, ordered roughly from newest to oldest. The main thing to remember is that LED scrubbers are currently for experimenting only, not results:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=645 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=645)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=659 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=659)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=435 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=435)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=564 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=564)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=728 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=728)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=427 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=427)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=560 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=560)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=451 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=451)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=561 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=561)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=444 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=444)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=378 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=378)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=326 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=326)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=96 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=96)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58 (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58)

[vahegan]

Hi!
Anything wrong with these links? None of them seems to be valid for me...

[SantaMonica]

They were from the old forum. This new forum's search actually works. Try the advanced search, and put "led" for the search term, and select "search titles only"...

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/search.php?search_type=1

[Ace25]

I see your old wording a lot around the forum Santa Monica, in your giant example thread, this thread, and a few others with the wording "The main thing to remember is that LED scrubbers are currently for experimenting only, not results:"

I know that was written years ago and it was very true when you wrote it, but I think people today doing searches will read your disclaimer and think that is still the case. I am pretty sure we are past the "experimental phase" in regards to LEDs. ;)

[SantaMonica]

No they are still very experimental since they are too hard to build.

[Ace25]

LOL, ok, your forum, but I completely disagree with you about "too hard to build" since a 5 year old can put them together with solderless connectors. LEDs are as easy or as hard as any other lighting out there. How many DIY T5HO scrubbers have I seen on here? Quite a few, and working with those ballasts are the same as working with LED drivers, but T5HOs are not considered "too hard" to build. You can buy a LED fixture or you can DIY LEDs and DIY can range from basic (solderless connectors with self tapping screws to a sheet of aluminum) to advanced (solder, run series/parallel strings, epoxy, finned heatsinks, fans) depending on skill level.

You can't really debate that they are "for experimenting, not results" anymore either. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmblJyeiSJ0

[kerry]

If one is doing DIY T5 I would say the DIY LED is easier if just doing a simple series circuit but, that is coming from someone that is very familiar with LED's. If doing the CFL with a reflector that would be the easiest. I think the hardest thing is figuring the number of LED's per 12" of screen. I am converting my horizontal today and tomorrow to a vertical screen and plan on two LED's per side of 12" screen.

[Ace25]

With my testing I have found 4 660nm per side is about the bare minimum on a 12"x10" screen and still get growth comparable to T5HO. I really don't think 2 per side will cut it.

[kotlec]

Once one understands how LEDs work, it becomes easy from that point.

[SantaMonica]

Most people can't solder, and want nothing to do with wires or electricity, much less understand it. Only if a lighting unit is ready-to-plugin would it be halfway "easy". And even then it becomes hard for them to mount the lights properly and safely. When there is a waterproof unit available that is ready to plugin, then it can be recommended. That's the reason 9 out of 10 people use CFL's... because they are ready to plug in. For T5's you have to wire up the sockets and ballasts.

Then of course there is the vast majority of aquarium owners (or would-be owners) who walk into LFS... they want nothing to do with building anything at all.

[Ace25]

Most people can't solder, and want nothing to do with wires or electricity, much less understand it. Only if a lighting unit is ready-to-plugin would it be halfway "easy". And even then it becomes hard for them to mount the lights properly and safely.
Please explain the difference between the CurrentUSA T5HO fixture you're using and the E-Shine LED fixture your using. How are they different other than the fact they are different types of lighting. Both are fixtures, both "plug and play", and both have the exact same mounting concerns (unless your solely speaking about mounting onto the SM100, but even then a small ABS template to wrap around the LED light would solve that issue). Even CFLs have mounting concerns to worry about as well as humidity/corrosion at the socket.


When there is a waterproof unit available that is ready to plugin, then it can be recommended. That's the reason 9 out of 10 people use CFL's... because they are ready to plug in. For T5's you have to wire up the sockets and ballasts.
You mean waterproof like the CurrentUSA T5HO lights that are recommended for the SM100? There is a product called LED Seal, just spray that on and you water proof the LEDs.

http://www.ledsupply.com/9013-07.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07yWAi5Wkdo


Then of course there is the vast majority of aquarium owners (or would-be owners) who walk into LFS... they want nothing to do with building anything at all.
Maybe in your neck of the woods that describes the majority of aquarium owners, but that is completely opposite from the aquarium owners I know and I have worked at a LFS and talked to thousands of aquarium owners, out of that I can count on 1 hand the number of people not willing to do anything DIY for their tank. Certainly opposite of just about ever member on this site. Even if that were true and the majority of people wanted "plug and play" and nothing to do with building, anyone can Google "LED Grow Light", you will find hundreds of types and styles, some are even water proof. With all the different types available on the market there is one that will fit in any scenario imaginable, and worst case you have to spray some LED seal on it to make it water proof, which you would have to do on any type of lighting in a humid environment if your truly concerned about avoiding corrosion.

[SantaMonica]

Please explain the difference between the CurrentUSA T5HO fixture you're using and the E-Shine LED fixture your using.

The Current unit (now discontinued) is designed to handle splashing and high humidity. The E-Shine is not; it has an open frame on the sides, and fans on the back which suck air and water into it. Even I have dripped water into it. It's a serious electrical shock waiting to happen. Lastly, the E-Shine has 120v going into it, when it could just have 10 or so instead.


There is a product called LED Seal, just spray that on and you water proof the LEDs.

That's not very plug-n-play. Plus you have to spray it on the pcb; most hobbyists don't want to deal with pcb's.


anyone can Google "LED Grow Light", you will find hundreds of types and styles, some are even water proof

Let's see them; I'd like to buy some. I'll take "splash resistant", but waterproof is even better. I've searched many times and not found anything.

[kerry]

DIY LED's and T5/8's are for sure a build that needs to be taken on by a person that knows and understands electronics and electricity. Its best to have the CFL's for a DIY build but, with these new units coming out in about March or so that are smaller and can be mounted on the top of a tank how is one going to mount a CFL or T5 up there with a small unit???? If its smaller I would think a LED would be best. I guess I would need to see it first before I make any real constitutions but, if its small I would not know how an easy CFL with reflector is going to work.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Are you saying the Current T5HO fixture has been discontinued?

Also there are waterproof LED fixtures. The builder that I had make my custom fixtures for my experiment said they carry light bars that can run fully submerged but only 1W bars and the density of LEDs was a bit too low for our needs.

[SantaMonica]

Yes I don't see it listed on the Current site, or on Marine Depot.

[Floyd R Turbo]

It's on their site here

http://www.current-usa.com/lighting/nova-extreme-2x

and while I couldn't find on Marine Depot, I found it on several other sites like here

http://www.aquariumguys.com/current-nova-extreme-freshwater24.html?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c1209_a_7c727 6_a_7c236414

[SantaMonica]

I saw somewhere that it was discontinued. I'm sure the retailers still have some though.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Thus endeth the T5HO scrubber era. IMO. Because that's the only fixture that had a decent price and reflector, even though the sockets were cruddy

[Ace25]

Sorry SM, I have tons of respect for you, but in this instance I feel you are just making excuses in regards to LEDs. You have not made any arguments against LEDs that can't be said for T5HOs as well. What power does the T5HO fixture have going to it? 120v, ballasts are inside, just like the drivers are inside the E-Shine fixture. You can't drop the T5HO fixture in water anymore than you could drop the E-Shine. Your making assumptions that the LED fixture will not handle humidity, you can make the same assumption about T5HO lights as well (I have seen plenty of corroded non-water proof endcaps on T5HOs, same end caps that are used in CurrentUSA fixtures, even over displays). Until you can show the reality of how long the LED fixture will last, you know they they say about assumptions.

Also, since the T5HO light has been discontinued, I am highly doubting there are any other T5HO fixtures that would fit into a SM100 as snugly as the CurrentUSA fixture. The SM100 seems designed for that one type of fixture, anything else requires a little DIY work.

Since the day I built my LED scrubber I get a little humidity inside the light box due to not being to best design/cleanest cuts on the glass so there is a slight gap between the lid and glass where humidity can get in. I never water proofed my LEDs, and there is water dripping from the heatsinks at times, and I have yet to have an LED fail on the scrubber going on a year now (although I have switched out LEDs in that time, but the original warm white Cree LEDs I started out with still work). My LEDs are open to the air/humidity, at least the E-Shine fixture has casing around it to give it some "splash" protection. I purposely didn't try and fix the humidity issue because I wanted to see how durable LEDs are... and I do believe they are way more durable than T5HOs, although it is always best for anything using electricity to avoid humidity as much as possible.

Since getting into 3w LEDs, I have had a total of 2 fail, both Cree XP-E Royal Blue on a display light (old style LEDs) and they failed within the first 30 days, not one LED has failed for me since then and been running 10+ hours a day for well over a year now. Before I ran LEDs, I ran MH+T5HO, and I used an Icecap660 ballast for the 4 T5HOs that went with the MH, 6 T5s were on another tank and that consisted of 2 CurrentUSA fixtures (4bulb + 2bulb), I would blow 1 bulb every 30 days, sometimes 2 using the Icacap660 ballast on 24" bulbs. I went through over 24 T5HO bulbs in a year on a 4 bulb fixture before I gave up on the Icecap660. I even used T5 V-HO bulbs that were supposed to handle the extra power, they didn't fair any better. So for me I have a much better track record with LEDs. Let's see, in a year I have spent $10 replacing 2 LEDs, how much would I have spent if I had my old lighting, which was 10 T5HOs and 1 250MH? $30x10 for T5s and $75 for a Radium MH bulb = $375. I think I am well ahead of the game now since switching to LEDs. The power saving alone just in 12 months paid for the LED lights, savings I get from bulb replacement cost this year is just gravy.

Oh, and here is your link.
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=waterproof+led+grow+light

[Floyd R Turbo]

Oh burn man. pulling out the lmgtfy link ouch!

the first pic that shows up is the one I looked at and was saying you could get but just not quite right, yet.

I have to say that I agree with Ace though, while the e-shine fixture isn't perfect, it certainly can be protected by taking the right steps in designing the scrubber enclosure around it. Which I am currently doing, and whatever I come up with hopefully will be translatable to the AS-II coming out....soon I hope! The fans are definitely throw a wrench in the works though.

[SantaMonica]

I like this one...
http://www.growlight.cn/44W-strip.asp

... apparently has a power supply, and no fan.

[Floyd R Turbo]

You gotta love these China companies. I mean who do they think they're kidding. The pics of the plants and tanks at the bottom of the page? 2 of them for sure are showing a different fixture in use. And I love the line "Do not touch and beat products while working." haha. Man I wish a US company made these at a decent price I'm sick of this china BS

[Ace25]

Here is a light I designed and help build for a friends Hydro setup. ;) 48 China LEDs running at 650mA (24 LEDs per meanwell driver, 2 series of 12), dimmable blues and reds, growing some super hot peppers (Ghost, Butch-T, etc). Cost was about $120 total for the light. Since he is growing a "flowering plant" more blues are needed than what we use for algae. He ended up taking the optics off the center 4 rows because it was way to intense in the center, as you can see in the bottom picture. Now the spread is perfect and plants are growing fast (he has a T5HO bucket to the side to see the difference in growth between correct spectrum LEDs vs 2700k T5HOs). The only reason I mention this is because the pictures in the China link above seem to be feasible to me, not saying they are accurate pictures because the lower plant ones seem to have white light on them, but what I see in the top picture should work fine.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/6uillo1/20120120_170101.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/6uillo1/20120120_173519.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/6uillo1/20120120_184830.jpg

[Rumpy Pumpy]

"Do not touch and beat products while working." haha.


I liked this one....




LED Grow Light be of high power with mental housing



http://www.cidly.com/html/en/LED_Grow_Light.html

[Ace25]

You haven't heard of the new "mental housing"? Where have you been? That is all the rage now.. all you have to do is think about the lights turning on, and they turn on!

Gotta love "engrish" translations.

[Floyd R Turbo]

ROLMFAO

[kerry]

Here is a light I designed and help build for a friends Hydro setup. ;) 48 China LEDs running at 650mA (24 LEDs per meanwell driver, 2 series of 12), dimmable blues and reds, growing some super hot peppers (Ghost, Butch-T, etc). Cost was about $120 total for the light. Since he is growing a "flowering plant" more blues are needed than what we use for algae. He ended up taking the optics off the center 4 rows because it was way to intense in the center, as you can see in the bottom picture. Now the spread is perfect and plants are growing fast (he has a T5HO bucket to the side to see the difference in growth between correct spectrum LEDs vs 2700k T5HOs). The only reason I mention this is because the pictures in the China link above seem to be feasible to me, not saying they are accurate pictures because the lower plant ones seem to have white light on them, but what I see in the top picture should work fine.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/6uillo1/20120120_170101.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/6uillo1/20120120_173519.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/6uillo1/20120120_184830.jpg
Thats a really nice build Sir!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Ok, I'm now probably going overboard posting this link but I want to reach as many people as possible

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/show...nes-and-Builds

[Floyd R Turbo]

link fixed

http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1711-DIY-LED-Scrubber-Lighting-Guidelines-and-Builds