My 70 Gallon Scrubbed Tank

[srusso]

The tank is 3 months old,
Corals
frogspawn, sea fan, leather, green star polyps, valentine polyps, green polyps, Orange Ricordea
Fish
Yellow Tail Damsel, Ocellaris Clown, Coral Beauty, Lawnmower Blenny, Mandarin, Sixline
Clean up
Flame Shrimp, Nassarius snails, Turbo Astrea snails, and a blue leg hermit.

As you can see no skimmer, no GFO filter, no canister filter, and no bio balls... Just an algae turf scrubber...

[attachment=2:1s0lpyqh]457cd6d1-879a-f5b6.jpg[/attachment:1s0lpyqh]

My sump is a 20 gallon long with three baffles. On the left side just a mag3 return pump, on the right a "U" shaped acrylic shelf I found being thrown away at my job, turned it tall ways and filled it with live rock. The ATS drops between the shelf and traps the bubbles.The lighting for it are two shop lights with 27k 100w CFL bulbs. Rapped in clear folder sleeves.

[attachment=1:1s0lpyqh]457cd6d1-8d4d-0560.jpg[/attachment:1s0lpyqh]
(this pic was taken just before scrubber needed cleaning...)

Here is a pic of the tank

[attachment=0:1s0lpyqh]457cd6d1-8fe8-5364.jpg[/attachment:1s0lpyqh]

Thank you for starting this forum! Feel like it was a great way to start my first SW tank.

[SantaMonica]

Sounds like you are having a great start. If you can increase the lighting, you'll get greener growth quicker; otherwise you can just wait more weeks. Your growth is still pretty dark, so you'll want to be cleaning more often.

[srusso]

Sounds like you are having a great start. If you can increase the lighting, you'll get greener growth quicker; otherwise you can just wait more weeks. Your growth is still pretty dark, so you'll want to be cleaning more often.

Increase? Wow I though you would say I have too much lighting! I may setup a PCF when I can. I will post a new pic of the growth this week... that pic was a bit old. Thanks for the info Santa!!! :D :D :D :D

[srusso]

http://tapa.tk/mu/a689899b-7bce-336d.jpg

Here is a current picture of the growth after 6 days

[SantaMonica]

Can you move the bulbs closer? I don't think you need the covers over the bulbs.

[srusso]

Can you move the bulbs closer? I don't think you need the covers over the bulbs.

I can, I will try this first. I though b/c I used 100watt CFL bulbs that they should be a bit farther from the screen... they are about 6" from the screen. Could it be that my flow is not strong enough? Or will that 2" make all the difference?

[SantaMonica]

They are not 100 watts, they are about 18 watts, which is weak. 6 inches is way to far for 18 watts.

[srusso]

They are not 100 watts, they are about 18 watts, which is weak. 6 inches is way to far for 18 watts.

Do they make higher wattage CFL's? Moving the bulbs closer is not going to be every easy but I will do what have too... I thought it was too much light this whole time because the center of my screen was starting to yellow by day 7... Thanks for all the help SantaMonica!!!

[SantaMonica]

What is N and P? Any nuisance algae? If there is no problem, then you are fine the way it is.

Yellow usually means it needs more flow, relative to the amount of light it has. More flow fixes it.

When the light is too close, you just get a bald spot like this:

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/BurnedScreen.jpg

[srusso]

What is N and P? Any nuisance algae? If there is no problem, then you are fine the way it is.

Yellow usually means it needs more flow, relative to the amount of light it has. More flow fixes it.

When the light is too close, you just get a bald spot like this:

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/BurnedScreen.jpg

No algae in the tank

http://tapa.tk/mu/457cd6d1-7a89-b697.jpg

Here is a shot of the scrubber, just before cleaning right now.

http://tapa.tk/mu/457cd6d1-7af1-048b.jpg

[srusso]

Result of a completely cleaned scrubber screen

http://tapa.tk/mu/457cd6d1-8ed9-4035.jpg

http://tapa.tk/mu/457cd6d1-8f2f-cc52.jpg

Looks cleaner in person...

[SantaMonica]

What is N and P? Must be high, looking at that dark growth.

[srusso]

What is N and P? Must be high, looking at that dark growth.

I havent check in a few, I will check after work today, again thanks for all the help! :D

[srusso]

So I finally got around to testing, and just as I expected zero NO3 and PO4...

Here is a picture of before and after scrubber cleaning this morning.
I moved the lights closer as you advised and I seemed to get a lot more yellow growth, I have moved the light back to their original place.

[srusso]

I am experimenting with a new CFL. Philips 28w 5000k - 5500k bulbs. I only used it on one side of the screen. I will post my results on Sunday. Its a little odd that it says a rang on the bulb but we will see how things go.

[felps]

I found the difference in growth, whether its 2700k or 6500k wasn't noticeable.

[Bridgeport]

Srusso, Was just wondering if your using a single screen or two sandwiched together?

[srusso]

I found the difference in growth, whether its 2700k or 6500k wasn't noticeable.

The most notable change with these bulbs are the 28w, the other bulbs were ~18w... I forgot to take a picture of the screen this week for before cleaning. I seems to be growing a bit more brown algae, I may switch back to the other bulbs.

[srusso]

Srusso, Was just wondering if your using a single screen or two sandwiched together?

Actually its a single screen but its not the same material that is commonly used in the forum. Its a Polyflex 2 screen which is a splinting material from my brothers job. I may build a traditional screen soon... more testing ;)

[srusso]

So after moving bulbs closer, switching light bulbs to stronger wattage, cleaning twice in a week. I have decided to get a new screen as mine was not the common plastic canvas all others use here... One notable difference I found from my screen is after being ruffed up it wasn't like a "cactus" more like the softside of velcro... I wanna say almost fluffy. This weekend I am going to get a canvas screen to see if this makes a differece.

[Sato]

So after moving bulbs closer, switching light bulbs to stronger wattage, cleaning twice in a week. I have decided to get a new screen as mine was not the common plastic canvas all others use here... One notable difference I found from my screen is after being ruffed up it wasn't like a "cactus" more like the softside of velcro... I wanna say almost fluffy.

I would have to agree. I hoped to achieve a cactus effect but got the velcro effect. Would this make any difference?

[srusso]

I would have to agree. I hoped to achieve a cactus effect but got the velcro effect. Would this make any difference?

Are you using a plastic canvas mesh screen? Not sure if it will make a difference, I am testing for myself.

[srusso]

O man :!: :o I completely forgot about the 3 months rule for changing CFL bulbs :!: Good thing I re-read though the FAQ~! I am switching in fresh bulbs tonight :!: I am on my 4 month!

[Sato]

Yeah, i got plastic canvas mesh from an art's and crafts store. It said Mesh 7 or something like that.

[srusso]

I have have changed both bulbs last night, removed test bulb as it seemed to create more brown algae on the side I put it on. (It was tested for two weeks) :? so... the Philips 28w CFL 5000k - 5500k bulb made things worse (at least for me)... I have replace those with new 23w 2700k bulbs. Home depot has a great deal 4 bulbs for .97 cents! :D

With these 23w 27k bulbs (same bulbs used before the Philips)I had been getting a darker green powder algae for about 4 months (since the start of the tank) and is the reason I started testing with other bulbs and tweeking things... however this week of testing one side with the Philips bulb and getting very little growth on that side of the screen has made some very interesting things happen on my control side... tufts of GHA! They are still rather dark and not covering the entire screen but its GHA none the less... ;)

One additional thing I started was larger feedings. I was previously feeding half a cube of frozen food a day, and noticed my angle started nipping my xenia. In hopes to prevent this from continuing began feeding more, I dont notice any more nipping...

Additionally one thing I should note is my screen is a 12 x 13 inches... which is 156 square inches, my tank is 70 gallons. That is double the size required for my tank... could this be the reason why my screen took longer to mature? :?:

[SantaMonica]

The extra food caused the growth.

[srusso]

The extra food caused the growth.

Is this a good thing?

[SantaMonica]

Could be... just means that it's working correctly.

[srusso]

Great I will post pictures of growth in each side for comparison.

[srusso]

An additional thought, I started playing with the idea of adding a barded fitting and a maxijet 1200 or 900 to the low flow end of my scrubber. I think I could use the additional flow in some areas. What do you think? I guess the picture will help here... Lol

[SantaMonica]

More flow always helps, as long as the screen can hold on to the growth.

[srusso]

So at the far end of my scrubber I have added a fitting and have a maxijet 1200 shooting water into the scrubber from this end. Giving me the extra water flow I believe my scrubber needed.

http://184.72.239.143/mu/457cd6d1-ac07-c581.jpg

http://184.72.239.143/mu/457cd6d1-ac90-0bca.jpg

Look at the growth difference!
All pictures are much darker then in person...

http://184.72.239.143/mu/457cd6d1-acfa-e3b6.jpg

[srusso]

So I cleaned this screen an hour ago and the difference was amazing! The weight of the screen must of tripled!! Both sides full of a darker green hair algae! Can wait to see next weeks growth! :lol:

[srusso]

Here is the the screen growth before cleaning... I will be cleaning it just after dinner tonight.
http://184.72.239.143/mu/4a5a9de0-6119-eef2.jpg

It always amazes me how much growth happens on the last days before cleaning. The algae is a thick hair algae and feels like wet human hair. It clumps together and looks like thin feathery clumps, almost like birds wing when viewed totality.

[srusso]

Maintenance day again...

Screen before cleaning
http://184.72.239.143/mu/4a5a9de0-b4cc-9318.jpg

Stripes are darker where flow is greater, I do have a little bit of an issue getting the flow to be even across the screen. The addition of the maxijet to the scrubber screen has helped but I am thinking of adding a dedicated pump for the ATS. Although it's doing it's job very well at the moment.

Here is the harvest
http://184.72.239.143/mu/4a5a9de0-b5b8-9c64.jpg

However this past week I lost some softie corals. Sliver Xenia and finger leather coral... On the flip side my SPS corals have never looked better! I am finding this is a common problem for many reefers, being that too much flow, too much light etc for both to live together.

http://184.72.239.143/mu/4a5a9de0-b694-cca4.jpg

http://184.72.239.143/mu/4a5a9de0-b6a9-22c5.jpg

http://184.72.239.143/mu/4a5a9de0-b6bb-a7f4.jpg

Here is a whole tank shot
http://184.72.239.143/mu/4a5a9de0-b6db-1816.jpg

I will shortly post testing results.

[srusso]

01/11/11
Temp 76.8 - 78.6 swing/day
SG 1.026
pH 8.00 - 8.09 swing/day
KH 8.6
Ca 410
Mg 1350
NO3 0
PO4 0

[SantaMonica]

I like tall reefs :)

[srusso]

I have have doubled my lighting and my growth is extremely pleased, :D :D :D

I have a whole screen of much lighter green growth. Here is my screen after the new lights have been installed.
Pictures dont reflect the new growth. I will post that on Sunday during my nex harvest.

[attachment=2:2djg0arz]IMG_0818.JPG[/attachment:2djg0arz]

[attachment=1:2djg0arz]IMG_0817.JPG[/attachment:2djg0arz]

Here is a shot of my whole tank, some new corals and more growth.

[attachment=0:2djg0arz]IMG_0816.JPG[/attachment:2djg0arz]

Here are my last testing results.

02/10/2011
SG 1.025
pH 7.96 - 8.24
KH 7.4
Ca 420
Mg 1320
NO3 0
PO4 0

[SantaMonica]

Probably time to double your feeding :)

[srusso]

Yeah, anyone feeding while the lights are still off, am before leaving for work?

[srusso]

Doubling my light doubled my growth!!!

http://184.72.239.143/mu/4a5a9de0-c382-cc80.jpg

Very happy with my addition!

[SantaMonica]

Yep, each photon of light removes one molecule of P, and one molecule of N, and makes one molecule of chlorophyll. So two photons of light do twice as much.

[srusso]

One thing I did notice, the light colored algae become a lot darker on days 6 and 7. I wonder if I cleaned the screen twice a week but only one side at a time if things would be better...?

[SantaMonica]

Sounds like it dying. Can you get a pic when it is green, and then darker?

[srusso]

Sounds like it dying. Can you get a pic when it is green, and then darker?

I have tried taking a picture, it doesnt really show in the photo...

I do however notice its in the highest flow areas so I am not sure that makes sense.

[SantaMonica]

Let it run a few weeks and see if it changes.

[arod2051]

Yep, each photon of light removes one molecule of P, and one molecule of N, and makes one molecule of chlorophyll. So two photons of light do twice as much.

Man, I spent the last hour looking for this relationship in a simplified form. I'm not doubting you, but can you PM me the source? I want to do more reading. It would be awesome if we can quantify how much N and P are being taken up by the algae mass and even awesomer if we can relate it to a function of light, or lumens. :D

[SantaMonica]

A basic starting place:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_production
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_cycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-dependent_reactions

From the last one...

The light-dependent reactions begin in photosystem II. When a chlorophyll a molecule within the reaction center of PSII absorbs a photon, an electron in this molecule attains a higher energy level. Because this state of an electron is very unstable, the electron is transferred from one to another molecule creating a chain of redox reactions, called an electron transport chain...

[arod2051]

Wow, heavy duty reading. This is going to take me a while to digest. I'll not hijack the thread further. I'll start a new one based on SM's links.

[srusso]

So I thought I should update my build thread.

Scrapped the one year old polyflex2 screen. It had excellent surface area but effectively made two single sided scrubbers, if that makes sense to some people... New scrubber still uses the four CLFs. The traditional plastic canvas. It's nine inches wide, and growing well.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/4a5a9de0-4cde-20bc.jpg

http://tapatalk.com/mu/4a5a9de0-4cf6-30c2.jpg

This is just it's first 6 days of growth!

http://tapatalk.com/mu/4a5a9de0-4d19-ddb1.jpg

New additions also include better screen hangers. Can't remember who to credit for this fantastic idea!

http://tapatalk.com/mu/4a5a9de0-4d78-67e5.jpg

And at one point had a crappy make-shift spray guard. With the new slot tube being much straighter the only guard I need is at the end of the screen. Used a part from a tank separater to keep the water flowing down.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/4a5a9de0-4e46-dc69.jpg

Still need to do something about the aluminum reflectors...

Also started dosing iron pills as suggested in the DIY iron thread...

Dosed 2 pills fillers and all. Clouded the tank for 30-1 hour.

[Nmcgrawj]

How far are your lights from the screen? I have a similar build that's been running for a month but haven't had much growth yet.