rsm with ATS

[anders moon]

Hai fellow salties!
IM settled in Denmark, Scandinavia. This summer I bought a used RSM and have for the last six months put LED lighting instead of the old original lighting. The past 5 months my only "filter" has been daily VSV, because IM tired of noisy skimmers! My plan has since the beginning of this RSM has been to install an ATS... NOw I have created an Surge device that can make the ATS project happen![attachment=0:fn3400t6]IMG_1396-1.JPG[/attachment:fn3400t6]

[anders moon]

this picture shows the pipes that make it possible to bring the ATS project in the sump alive!
My return pump is a Agua bee 2000/1

[anders moon]

And now the ATS In action 8-)
I have two screens... then I can clean the first screen after days and and the second sreen after another five days... This will happen after the algaes has started to grow in the green colour we like :P

the light is working spot with the "bended" Kind of tubes. It is on 28W.

I have a little probelm getting the fow even across the screen. the slot a is very narrow, the screens are pressed up in the slot and that holds them there... then I cut some slots across the big slot.

can the flow get more even if the big gets wider?
Will the flow get more even if I make another pipe with only the big slot and none across?[attachment=1:1zdtvwae]IMG_1372.JPG[/attachment:1zdtvwae]

[anders moon]

The day of installation was the 17. dec 2010
There is i little brownish algea growing now I will cleean both screens the 24. december if can get time to it... I have to children 1 and 4 years old :D

[SantaMonica]

I have two screens

Do you mean two-layers? I only see one screen.


can the flow get more even if the big gets wider?

The flow will even out with smaller slots.


the light is working spot with the "bended" Kind of tubes. It is on 28W.

One on each side, correct?

[anders moon]

I have two screens next to each other...

How can I make the slots smaller??? Im not sure I understand! The screens are pushed up in the big slot and the slot is so narrow that the screens are fixed by the slot...

the light is the kind of tube that forms an kind of square... I will take a photo to make i clear :lol:

[SantaMonica]

Sounds like you just need more flow. 35 gph per inch of slot if the screen is a single layer. If the screen is a double layer, you need about 50 gph per inch.

[anders moon]

I only have one layer screen but have divided the screen in two equal size screens... to avoid nutrient spikes ;)

Do you still think I need more flow? My pump pulls 2000L/h

[anders moon]

my screen(screens) is 25cm wide.
Flow calculation: 25cmx60L/h= 1500L/h

If this is right, my pump should be alright,is this correct?

[SantaMonica]

Seems fine then.

[anders moon]

I just wanted to show how it looks, this is precisely how it is installed...

Im glad the flow is alright, but I think im looking for a 3000L/h pump like tunze silence or newjet...

[anders moon]

a picture that shows how it looks more easily

This ATS filter theory works and Im very glad for all your work in here "Santa" and merry christmas :D

[SantaMonica]

Thanks, same to you.

[anders moon]

a little update!
The ATS has been on for 2 weeks now. The brownish algae has grown more thick and now on 2. week green algae has been spotted several places :lol:
THIS IS GREAT!
I have a litlle noise problem and I will try to saw the slot a little wider if it can help. Is this correct that it could solve my noise problem from the ATS?

(Sorry for the bad spelling :twisted: )

[SantaMonica]

Depends if the noise is coming from the pipe or the water below.

[anders moon]

it sounds like the water from inside the pipe trying to get out... How wide slot is it you recommend(in mm please)?

Maybe there is a little niose from the water below. The ATS is under the water line. Can I do more to get rid of the noise?

[SantaMonica]

Is it a 3/4 inch (18.75 mm) pipe?

[anders moon]

all the piping are 32mm...

[Vannpytt]

Too big, should be more like 16-20mm. I used the 16mm on my RSM.

[SantaMonica]

Correct. The pipe needs to be full of water to be the most quiet. Your big pipe, combined with a large slot, does not let the water fill the pipe up, and so it rushes/splashes/gurgles in the pipe.

[anders moon]

that is not good news but a little predicted :)
I dont know if I shuld learn live withh the gurgle and splash sounds or mabybe try to put some thinner pipes on the ATS.

As I see it I have to ways to do it:
1: reduce the end of the 32mm`s piping if there exists a pipe reducer going from 32mm to 16mm?

2: make the ATS seperatly in the sump connected to yet another pump with 16mm piping? the most negtive thing here is the more Watt in use :idea:

What do you think?

[SantaMonica]

Just re-do it with smaller pipe, and a 1/8 inch slot.

[Vannpytt]

You'll have to reduce from 32-25-20mm (wich should be oki if you have good flow). The added wattage is minimal and if it's heat you worry about, that will easily be fixed by using a fan on the scrubber. Also you can use one of your other pumps to feed just plumb it into the system. Like:

Pump->Skimmer->Tube to ATS->Sump

[anders moon]

thanks for your advices both of you :D
My plan is to reduce the 32mm to 16mm pipes in the area where the ATS is placed...
The pipes en pieces are in the order so I hope I can make the project in the following days...
pictures will follow the work in progrss 8-)

[anders moon]

this is a picture of the sreen before cleaning it for the third time :)

There are small areas with green algae under the browm there are small green close to the screen.

Is this normal growth for a three weeks installation?

[anders moon]

this after cleaning...

the white areas on the latter picture... Their present, is that because the lack of roughness on the screen, lack of flow, light or maybe normal?

[SantaMonica]

Two things:

You have to replace that screen with roughed-up plastic canvas.

Your light is weak.

If you want to keep it the way it is, you can, and get some experience. But for real filtering, you will need to make these changes.

[anders moon]

I have ripped the screen with a hole-drill like you have shown in some pictures in here but I can do it again, so it will get even more rough. will this be better or do I need to find some of that you call plastic canvas and rough that up?

I dont think the light wil bel changed right now...

[Vannpytt]

You'll just be unhappy about your scrubber if you don't, and waste all the time you already spent. I've been there, so I know how frustrating it's going to be when "it doesnt work" happens.

[SantaMonica]

Run it the way it is for now, but order some screen and new bulbs. Change them later. This way you will get to see the differences after running for a while.

[anders moon]

ok I will change the light in some time... and then I will put them on both sides ;)

It is not that i am not willing to get another screen but what is wrong with the one I got?

[anders moon]

can you show be a link for the correct bulbs and lamps?

I came across this lamp from ferplast, what du you think of this?
http://www.ferplast.com/scheda_prodotto ... m_pagina=1 (http://www.ferplast.com/scheda_prodotto_eng.php/prodotto=mini_over_tank_lamp-overtank-lamps-lighting--arclight-mini/id_menu=06060102/frm_pagina=1)

[SantaMonica]

Your screen is just a drilled plastic sheet. Not enough places for algae to grab.

That light is way too weak. Get a 2700 or 3000K ("soft" or "warm") CFL curly-Q spiral bulb, and a big reflector.

[anders moon]

Thats sounds great! but where can I find i reflector for that kind of bulbs? I have been to several shops but there are no reflectors to that kind of bulbs :cry:

The screen will be ok if I rip to part even more?

[SantaMonica]

Just search the web, or home improvement stores.

You can try scratch up the screen more.

[anders moon]

alright to day Im have day off... And my plan is get a reptile lamp with a big reflector and easy to fix on the sump ... they can be found in alu so the erode from the saltwater not is too bad...

[anders moon]

now I have bought this reptile lamp with a reflector. I hope this will work... The most powerfull Bublb I could find was 23W "warm"... But they will get a 30W bulb home... I will put some pictures in of the new lamb later!

[anders moon]

now the new lamp has been on for a couple of days and I think the algaes are turning more green...
I will start all over this week with a nex plastic canvas and one more lamp on the other side...

Here is a picture before cleaning number four.

[new2scrub]

the reptile lamp/reflector is a little narrow but it will work well,,,make sure your screen is VERY rough ,,,,and give it a few weeks,,,then you will be able to tell if your ATS is working well enough.

[anders moon]

this before the fifth cleaning!
a little more green...
This time after cleaning I tried to rough it up even more and now a have installed a lamp with 23W on the other side... Now the light is 2x23W :lol:[attachment=1:d524vp1q]21.1-11.JPG[/attachment:d524vp1q]

[Vannpytt]

Seems a bit too far away from the screen, but you have to have it wide enought also..

[anders moon]

yep thats the paradox :)
I Will try to make a holder for the light so it can come a little closer...

[SantaMonica]

Those bulbs look very small. Are they 23 real watts, or equivalent?

Move the bulbs much closer to the screen.

[anders moon]

Im impressed! You know your bulbs!!! I had an accident with the two 23w´s and those two are the temps... tommorrow I can get som new 23W´s

And they will get closer... a bit anyhow :D

[michaelhfrit]

undskyld mig men hvad har du brugt til screen og hvor har du købt det jag vil også gerne i gang med alge scrubber mit akv er 320 liter
med venlig hilsen michael

[SantaMonica]

http://www.everythingplasticcanvas.com/ ... -x-18.aspx (http://www.everythingplasticcanvas.com/pc-20049-260-plastic-canvas-7-mesh-12-x-18.aspx)

[anders moon]

the prior question in danish, Was about what I have used for screen...
it is a plastic screen with a lot of holes... But the plastic canvas that people use in here are much better. You can buy it in Jylland. I cant find anywhere in the city Odense :x

try to visit www.saltvandsforum.dk (http://www.saltvandsforum.dk) in there we talk(danish) a little about ATS and there is a guy that live close to a hobby store. He can buy it it for you... I know it is a little far fedge :lol:

[anders moon]

now the lamps are placed 5cm from each side... Is this too close?
the bulbs are back to 23W each :D

[SantaMonica]

Perfect

[anders moon]

GREAT!!!

[anders moon]

this cleaning after seven days ATS run I spotted that the algae in the middle of the screen had turned to a slimy yellow "alge"... I would prefer that it was green ;) I feed one frost cube and one dry food each day...
Why is this:
Light too close?
not enough food?
Should I try to clean the screen two times per week?

[anders moon]

The light are turned on 18hours per day...
The algae are green on the top and on the bottom of the screen...

[SantaMonica]

Yellow rubber or yellow slime: It's not getting enough iron, compared to how much light it's getting. The more light it gets, the more iron it needs. The best way to give it more iron is to increase flow, which also delivers more of all the other nutrients to it; this will increase overall filtering too. But at some point your screen will not be able to hold on to the heavy algae. Or, maybe you cannot increase flow any more. In this case, add iron, such as Ken't Iron+Manganese, according to the instructions. This will help the algae grow green without slowing filtering. If you can't get iron, then turn the lights off an extra 2 hours per day. Don't move the lights farther away; just turn them off 2 more hours per day (weak light is not good; it's better to have strong light for a shorter time). This reduced lighing time will also allow the algae to grow green, but it does slow down the filtering because the amount of filtering is proportional to the amount of light.

[anders moon]

You are fast on the trigger and I love it!

I will try to get that iron stuff...

[anders moon]

That Kent´s "iron" is a little tricky to get hold of en denmark... Can I use Iron supplements for freshwater plant aquariums aswell? I can order it from aboad but that will cost extra :D

[SantaMonica]

Yes I think it's all the same.

[anders moon]

one more question... Will it help to keep the light on for 18hours and then feed even MORE and still NOT add iron?

[SantaMonica]

No, that will just add more nutrients to the water.

[anders moon]

update: I have been running the ATS for the last two weeks on 16hours light and and a cleaning for ever five days... The algae has grown more thick and green but it is still dominated by dark algae... but no more yellow slime in te middle!
Today I started to dose Iron with Manganense... and then turn the lightback on to the 18 hours per day :D
The pod population has exploded and my fat Mandarin is a happy fatty :D
I will take pictures of the ATS when a clean it next time!
I hope the Iron will

[anders moon]

as you can se in the picture I have a problem getting the flow good and even across the screen! my sreen is about 2-3mm thick and the slot about 5mm thick. will it help om the flow if I tried to make the slot even thicker?

Update on algae: It helped with the iron dosage. I couldnt get the Kents but got another products where the Manganense figured! Do I continue with the iron every week?

[SantaMonica]

That is 1/2 of the screen?

Experiment with and without iron. Or feed nori to the tank... has lots of iron.

[anders moon]

that is the whole screen but I had a picture of the other side. that picture got deleted!
Do you think the flow will be more even if I make the slot a little thicker... my idea is that if the slot is thicker there are more room for the water to move on and the flow will be more even across the slot... What do you think?

[SantaMonica]

1/8 is good for one screen layer. It should fill in later.

[anders moon]

alright.. I will experiment with iron and maybe nori feeding :D

[anders moon]

[attachment=2:13q69li1]4.3.11.JPG[/attachment:13q69li1]

[anders moon]

When I clean every week I dose som Iron. The result of the iron dosage is that the jellow spots in the middle of the screen both sides, that has turned dark and there are more long haired algae. I will try to blend my own food (garlic, artemia, krill, dry food and NORI) and then stop the dosage of iron... the next week I will feed iron and still dose liqiud iron.

But I still have problems with even out the flow... look at the sides af the screen! Im still thinking to make the slot a little more broad, so there will be more water movement. What do you think? will the algae spread more even across the sides too overtime, if I leave as it is?

[SantaMonica]

A smaller slot is usually better. It forces the water to all parts of the pipe.

[bucks448]

The sides of your screen aren't getting any flow because the notches you cut in the top sides of the screen. From the pictures it doesn't look like the slot cut in your pipe even covers the sides of the screen. I'd level off the top of your screen and cut the pipe slot so it's just long enough to accept the whole width of the screen. Also, use two twist ties on the very outside edges of your screen instead of just one in the center. It looks like it's restricting flow right in the middle too.

I bet that will even out your flow.

[anders moon]

I follow both of you... I will cut the slot a little longer so the slot is the same length as the screen and then use two strings to keep the screen in place :D I apreciate yor help a lot :D :D

[Vannpytt]

How is this going?

[anders moon]

well it worked very well, but I sold the tank and bough a bigger 440L. tank.... Im installing a ATS with LED liggting...