New scrubber questions, and introduction!

[Wavecookies]

Hey all,

Ive been lurking the forum for the past few months now, read a lot of info. on here, and I finally set up a scrubber.

Tank is a 90 gallon mixed reef with SPS, a few LPS, and softies. 6 fish (for now...).

Ive been battling an algae problem for over 2 months now, probably jumpstarted by the shift in spectrum of my old MH bulbs...

My screen is 13x15, lighted on both sides by 75 watt (equivalent) 35K bulbs on each side. Bulbs are as close as I can get them safely with the current setup.


My main question is, does the flow look ok as is? I included a video. Flow in the beginning is how it always it, second type of flow is when I open the T valve more, third is when I close it a bit more than normal. Which kind of flow is best?

When I cut the long slit in the PVC pipe, I had to use a make shift dremel out of a cut off wheel and a cordless drill, so the slit isnt as straight and clean as it could be.

I roughed up the screen with a jagged knife, scraping it all over it in different directions until it felt very rough.


Video is 4 days after setting up the new lighting.



PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know what you think, and any improvements that I can do to make it more efficient.


My ultimate goal is to run skimmerless and hopefully get to the point where I can just sell the skimmer. I had been running for about a month without a skimmer before even knowing what an algae scrubber was, and the corals looked very healthy and were opening up more, so I really like the idea :D

Video of Scrubber on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMT5dCuCf0M

Video of tank and algae on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Nc7Ox1MRs

[SantaMonica]

Your flow looks great. More flow is always better, up until splashing is a problem, or the algae starts letting go from the screen. And the algae on the rocks looks like phosphate is coming out of them... a good thing.


I had been running for about a month without a skimmer before even knowing what an algae scrubber was, and the corals looked very healthy and were opening up more

Because they like food particles in water. Skimmers remove food particles.


Tank is a 90

Medium filtering would be 0.5 total watts per gallon = 45 watts.


My screen is 13x15

= 195 square inches. Medium filtering would be 0.5 watts per square inch = 97 total watts.


lighted on both sides by 75 watt (equivalent) 3500K bulbs on each side

75 equivalent watts is about 13 real watts. So you are running about 26 total watts.

So you see that your wattage is way too low, whether you look at the watts-per-gallon or the watts-per-inch rule. You probably are not feeding much at all yet, so it's not a critical fix. But before the tank is stocked more (and fed more), you'll want to put at least 23 watt (120 equivalent) bulbs on each side.

Another aspect to your build is that the screen is way way too wide for a single bulb to cover. A single bulb in a reflector like that only covers what is directly in front of the reflector. It looks like there is 3 to 5 inches on each side of the reflector, which will not be contributing much filtering at all, but uses up just as much water. What I'd do temporarily, is cut the screen to be as wide as the reflector, and tape up the remaining slot. Better, re-cut another pipe. Of course you could always keep the current slot and just put two 23 watt bulbs on each side, which would cover the whole screen and give you 4 X 23 = 92 real watts (you want to use curly Q spirals; not floodlights).

What you have now is ok for getting a feel for limited growth with low feeding. You should run it for a few months to see how it improves with changes later. And you can go ahead and sell the skimmer.

[Wavecookies]

Thanks Santamonica :D

[Wavecookies]

ok, 10 days after my last post and I have a few questions and some updates...

1. water sprays in little streams slightly sideways from the screen. Should I, A. turn the flow up (which causes more flow everywhere, also more spraying...) or B. Should I remove the screen and make the slit slightly bigger? When I keep the flow lower it doesnt do it, but I know higher flow is better....

2. Why is there so much crap growing on the bottom of the bucket? Is it the because of the angle on the lighting? I dont have any space to clip on the lights except where they are currently, so I might have to re-think my design...

3. Starting to get light green growing on the scrubber, I had previously seeded it with green algae from the tank, its spreading now. It looks dark in the picture, its actually a bright light neon-like green. very pretty :D. Question is, i'm still feeding the same amount I used to, but my phosphates have jumped up to 2.18 (it was around 0.21 area a month ago...)!!!!! I'm surprised a lot of my sps are still alive.... Nitrates, on the other hand, are at 4, down from almost 30 a month ago. Not bad at all...

4.I started running PhosGaurd again in my TLF reactor for the time being, i'd rather not risk any losses. Wondering if the addition of the phosgaurd will in any way prohibit or significantly decrease the scrubber maturity process? I'm hoping for an all-green screen sometime soon...

5. Should I remove any of the crap at the bottom of the bucket? some of it seems pretty solid, I got some out with a turkey baster and saw a very tiny oblonged black fast-moving bug thingie on the bottom, never seen anything like it in the DT before. Wondering if I should be worried?

Here are recent pictures of the scrubber, taken tonight. 2 shots are on side 1, 1 shot of other side. Planning on making another scrubber soon. Shorter but longer, with more bulbs.... my 600gph pump is T'd off 3/4 of the way as it is, so i'm sure it could handle a longer PVC pipe for a new scrubber.


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/scrubber11211again.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/scrubber11211.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/srubber11211side.jpg


Oh, and I just cleaned it 5 days ago. How often should I be cleaning it now? and how much should I be cleaning off?

Thanks Again :D

[SantaMonica]

water sprays in little streams slightly sideways from the screen.

From the screen, or from the pipe?


Why is there so much crap growing on the bottom of the bucket?

You have a lot of light hitting it.


Starting to get light green growing on the scrubber,

Going in the right direction.


but my phosphates have jumped up to 2.18

Not sure about this. Re-test a few times.


Wondering if the addition of the phosgaurd will in any way prohibit or significantly decrease the scrubber maturity process?

Yes it will.


Should I remove any of the crap at the bottom of the bucket?

For highest filtering, yes remove it.


just cleaned it 5 days ago. How often should I be cleaning it now? and how much should I be cleaning off?

7 days. Most of it.

[Wavecookies]

"From the screen, or from the pipe?"

- from the pipe at the top, I was looking at the rest of your sight about light blockers with a simple pvc design, I will start to use one after the next cleaning. Should I also increase size of slit in pcv pipe? Screen is just able to slide in snugly through the opening, but i still needed to use 2 zipties to keep it from sliding of with water pressure.



"Not sure about this. Re-test a few times."

Phosphates tested with Hanna meter @ local LFS, I'll get a retest this weekend.




Wondering if the addition of the phosgaurd will in any way prohibit or significantly decrease the scrubber maturity process?

"Yes it will."

Should I stop? Been running it for 24hrs corals have opened up significantly more today...




Thanks SM :D

[SantaMonica]

Remove the phosguard when your test show less than 0.5

[Wavecookies]

ok thanks :D

-Cindy

[sklywag]

When people post video from YouTube. I end up watching about a half hour of crazy crap unrelated.

One thing I discovered with flow and spray which I've meant to post to more people with problem. Using a larger pipe for the screen really reduces spray by flooding it instead of pressurizing it. Does that make sense? Instead of the water being forced out a slot by pressure be it a pump or overflow and it going out the end with more flow(pressure) than the slot closest to the feed. By using the larger(in my case 1and 1/4" plumbing. Only 1" bulkhead) The water has a chance to balance/level itself inside the pipe thus being more like a waterfall than being squirted out.

[Eclip]

i notice on my scrubber that the water squirting out from where the screen enters the pipe that it is too narrow. i opened mine up a little and found that it flowed down my screen better. not i notice that i get the squirting when the algae has grown in the slot and is restricting it so it lets me know its time to clean as the algae is thick enough.

[SantaMonica]

One thing I discovered with flow and spray which I've meant to post to more people with problem. Using a larger pipe for the screen really reduces spray by flooding it instead of pressurizing it.

Yes but taking the pressure out also reduces the "self correcting" nature, where it fills in areas with flow that are not getting as much growth.

Also, larger pipes have been known to make more noise.

[Wavecookies]

:D

[Wavecookies]

I just realized that the bulbs are 23 watts each. So I will still need 2 on each side?

I was thinking about raising the whole setup slightly higher, this will give me enough room with the reflectors to put the bulbs exactly parallel with the screen, avoiding my current problem of being pointed downwards, thus causing unwanted growth on the bottom of the tub.

I was also thinking of turning this screen, so that the width now becomes the length, and adding another screen next to it. as it sits now, the screen is wider than it is tall. This will enable one reflector to fit the full length of 1 screen. so I will be running 2 screens in series, lit by (2) 23 watt bulbs each on both side.

My only question about the bulb is that the bulbs I have now are 23 watts actual, and 75 watts equivalent. You said it needs to be 120 watts equivalent. Should I be looking at the actual watts in this case, or just go for a higher equivalence when I buy the new bulbs?

I'm also going to widen the slit just a little bit to avoid the spraying everywhere, i feel this will help a lot, as it isnt exactly even all the way down the way I cut it so i'm pretty sure this will be an improvement.

Hopefully all the little upgrades will make it more efficient for the tank. I feed about a cube per day, plus a small bit of flake food once or twice daily as well. I'm going to start adding more phyto soon. I was adding 2 capfulls of DT's once per week for my chili coral. I am receiving a non-photosynthetic gorgonian sometime this week, and I will need to start feeding smaller, more frequent amounts (of the dt's and other appropriate micron-sized foods...) to keep up with the requirements of the gorg.

Do you think that with the upgrades that the scrubber will be able to handle it and get my PO4 down soon?

[SantaMonica]

So I will still need 2 on each side?

You want as much consistent coverage from end to end as you can get without burning the middle. That's the limitation of CFL bulbs compared to T5's... they burn the middle.


I was thinking about raising the whole setup slightly higher, this will give me enough room with the reflectors to put the bulbs exactly parallel with the screen, avoiding my current problem of being pointed downwards, thus causing unwanted growth on the bottom of the tub.

Good.


I was also thinking of turning this screen, so that the width now becomes the length, and adding another screen next to it.

I would maximize growth on this screen first. This screen should do most of what you need. If your flow is strong now, I would not turn the screen... wider is better because it flows more water and thus gets nutrients from the tank to the scrubber faster.


My only question about the bulb is that the bulbs I have now are 23 watts actual, and 75 watts equivalent. You said it needs to be 120 watts equivalent. Should I be looking at the actual watts in this case, or just go for a higher equivalence when I buy the new bulbs?

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/CFLbulbs.jpg




You want real, not equivalent.

You can put up to a 42 watt (real, not equivalent) bulb on each side of that screen, and put the bulb about 5 inches from the screen. 42 watts is strong, and any closer will burn the middle.


I feed about a cube per day, plus a small bit of flake food once or twice daily as well.

Not much at all, even for your current bulbs.


I'm going to start adding more phyto soon. I was adding 2 capfulls of DT's once per week for my chili coral.

Liquid food, including phyto, is best added in a slow continuous fashion, using a peristaltic pump.


I am receiving a non-photosynthetic gorgonian sometime this week, and I will need to start feeding smaller, more frequent amounts (of the dt's and other appropriate micron-sized foods...) to keep up with the requirements of the gorg.

Unfortunately, if it is a true non-photo, you would need to feed gigantic amounts of continuous liquid food to keep it alive, and more than just phyto too. Probably about 8 ounces a day (236 ml), which would wipe out your current setup. Hopefully it is really a photo gorg which has a much better chance but still would probably need more food. True non-photo gorgs, especially the impossible blueberry gorg, should be the only attempted with very powerful and oversized scrubber, continuous liquid feeding, and strong laminar current through out the tank.


Do you think that with the upgrades that the scrubber will be able to handle it and get my PO4 down soon?

Yes the improvements will do it, at the current feeding level, and probably a good bit more. Not near enough for non-photo gorg feeding, however. The guideline is:

Each cube of frozen food you feed per day needs 12 square inches of screen, with a light on both sides totaling 12 watts. Thus a nano that is fed one cube a day would need a screen 3 X 4 inches with a 6 watt bulb on each side. A larger tank that is fed 10 cubes a day would need a screen 10 X 12 inches with 60 watts of light on each side. If you feed flake, feeder fish, or anything else, you will need to blend it up super thick, strain out the excess water, pour it into a cube, and see how many cubes it is.

[Wavecookies]

question.

what size PVC pipe should I be using? Im about to go out and buy another PVC pipe to make a taller/longer scrubber.

I think I have 1/4" now, maybe 1/2 not exactly sure as I'm not near it at the moment.

Also, I bought 4 new 3500K 100 watt equivalent spiral bulbs (23 actual watts each...) how far away from the screen should they be placed so that it does not burn the center.


Thanks!

[SantaMonica]

3/4 inch


4 inches.

[Wavecookies]

Thanks

[Wavecookies]

Pictures of upgraded scrubber.

pvc upgraded from 1/2" to 3/4"
slit in pvc widened
screen turned in order to fit 1 refector per screen
new screen added
2 more bulbs and reflectors added

I will create a light deflector at the very top soon to make sure no algae will restrict flow to the screens

screen on the right added 4 days ago. last picture is new screen with 3 days worth of growth. It had been lightly seeded by the screen on the left when I cleaned it.

BTW, P04 tested friday via. hanna meter - 0.21 YAY!!! and dropping....hopefully :D

Nitrates steady at 4


What do you think of the new setup?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/2-1.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/4.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/3-1.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/3dayseeding.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Perfect!

[Wavecookies]

I have a friend with a 225 gallon tank, mixed reef. he wants the same results, what size screen would be good for him? he has about 300 gallons of water total in the system. Also what size pump do you suggest for him?

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate all the help. You have no idea how much your site has helped me in my reef-keeping journey.

[SantaMonica]

Actually the one you made would be good for him too. Start with four 42 watt bulbs. Otherwise...

Tank Size Guideline:

0.5 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon MINIMUM [0.13 watts per liter].

1.0 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon for HIGH filtering [0.26 watts per liter].

1.0 square inches of screen per gallon, with bulbs on BOTH sides (10 x 10 = 100 square inches = 100 gal) [1.64 square cm per liter]

2.0 square inches of screen per gallon, if vertical but lit on just ONE side. [3.28 square cm per liter]

4.0 square inches of screen per gallon, if HORIZONTAL [6.56 square cm per liter].

1.5 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon if HORIZONTAL [0.4 watts per liter].

18 hours of lights ON, and 6 hours of lights OFF, each day.

Flow is 24 hours, and is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen, EVEN IF one sided [60 lph per cm].

Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas.

Clean algae off of screen every SEVEN (7) days NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.



Feeding Guidline:

Each cube of frozen food you feed per day needs 12 square inches of screen, with a light on both sides totaling 12 watts. Thus a nano that is fed one cube a day would need a screen 3 X 4 inches with a 6 watt bulb on each side. A larger tank that is fed 10 cubes a day would need a screen 10 X 12 inches with 60 watts of light on each side. If you feed flake, feeder fish, or anything else, you will need to blend it up super thick, strain out the excess water, pour it into a cube, and see how many cubes it is.

[Wavecookies]

update of growth on the second new screen

Pic taken today 2/4/11


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/0204111117.jpg


I feed 2 cubes of rods food daily. I'm going to start dosing phyto once I move into my new place (wish me luck, i'm moving from a second floor apt. to another second floor apt....)

Also, I did a little experiment and want to know if I could periodically continue to do this without harming the corals. I figured in the wild that there is not sunshine 24/7 and decided to turn out all of my DT lights for a day. Much to my delight, the next day when I turned on the lights and started to blow the thisck algae around in the DT with a turkey baster, a lot of it willingly detached from the rocks. I contribute this to turning of the lights for 24 hrs and weakening it some while at the same time had the scrubber lights going as usual. I just blew it off the rocks and let it settle in places in the back where it doesnt get much of any light.

is it a good idea to practice this on a weekly basis to get rid of nuciance algae in the DT? how may days is it ok to turn out the DT lights without having any adverse affects on the corals?

I'm going to be taking Before and After current pictures of the scrubber at work on the DT. Ive been posting a lot of scrubber pics, but dont many of the DT. Pics to come of the DT soon :D

[SantaMonica]

It is not a good idea. When you kill the display algae, the nutrients go into the water; higher nutrients cause the scrubber to grow darker and with less green hair. Thus, your scrubber's filtering power drops.

If you want to remove display algae, pull it out of the tank.

[Wavecookies]

ok thanks. Ive been just pulling until i realized this little trick. Diddnt realize it would hinder the progress of the scrubber. I'll quit doing it now!

Thanks :D

[Wavecookies]

Finally moved the tank and everything is settled.

It has been a week after the move, and ive had quite a bit of die-off in the tank. A lot of coraline has died, and the scrubber had a bit of a rough new break-in period.

Water was tested yesterday @ LFS -

N03 - Zero ....YAY!

N04 - 0.30... BOO-OO!


Not too bad considering the 3 day ordeal to move the tank from one second story apartment to another second story apartment. Had 2 of my acro's die in the move, other than that everybody is doing great an accounted for!

New aquascape. Pic taken today.


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/0226110953.jpg


btw...for those of you wondering why my back wall is bare, it used to be covered in beautiful coraline before the move. I knew it would die in the proces of moving the tank, and I couldnt stand the thought of staring at a white back wall, so I scraped it clean before it died to give it a chance of survival in the water column :D I hate the white overflow right now :P, and a lot of the die-off I had on the rocks ( my fault and totally preventable, it was just a very hectic move...)

[Wavecookies]

sorry about the crappy picture, it was taken with my camera phone. I'll get more pics of the tank and scrubber later today with my cam :D

[Wavecookies]

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6116.jpg


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/3-02-2011.jpg

[Wavecookies]

updates of algae harvest today. its about double the size i harvested last week.

i have an insane amount of diatoms everywhere in my tank though, sand, rocks, some corals.... anything i can improve as far as the scrubber goes in order to combat this?

im sure it has to do with my old MH bulbs and the shift in spectrum.

I'm going the LED route soon ( 2 to 3 weeks max), just waiting to put the rest of the money together :D


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/washalgae2.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/washalgae.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Spectrum shift won't matter once nutrients come down. Diatoms and anything else will go away, as long as your growth increases on the screen.

[Wavecookies]

anything else you think I could upgrade on my screen to make it better? this diatom bloom is really ugly :) all corals are doing well though. only the frogspawn is a little unhappy, and my undata as well.

[SantaMonica]

Stronger scrubber lighting.

[Wavecookies]

how many watts should I upgrade to and how far away from the screen should the bulbs be so as not to burn it?


thanks :D


I'm getting a new job soon and my next investment will be a SantaMonica 100, i love the 3D algae idea, and ive seen one in person in action (Thanks Chris!) and it really is awesome.



btw, I have some clumping crap settling/growing in my sump area. I havent done anything with it yet fearing that it might dislodge and end up in the Display. I wanted to know what you thought about it first. should I let it be and never stir it around? or should I shut all pumps off and clean it out using a filter sock and suction hose and remove it all?

Pictures below showing the tank and what I believe to be cyano, and other shots of sump/crap in sump.


Thanks SM!

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6131.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6130.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6129.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6128.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Let it stay... it's not that much.

Goal for high filtering is 1 real watt per gallon. CFL's can't get much closer than 4 inches.

[Wavecookies]

ok, pics of the scrubber today and of the harvest.

4/3/2011

I added Kent Marine Iron and Magnese about 4 days ago because some of the algae was yellowing on the screen. the iron took care of some of this in the new growth over the 4 days, but as the pics reflect, there is an odd band of yellowing going down the screen. Flow is linear with no blockages to these areas, and I also run a toothbrush at the top of the scrubber and pipe to dislodge anything that may be blocking and also prevent blocking.

I also noticed that the algae is producing bubbles that stay on the screen, if I rub my fingers on them they dissipate. Is this normal?

Also after adding the Kent Marine Iron (the only thing ive changed since last week, so i'm assuming this is the reason) the algae that I harvest is more "goopy" so to say. It is still solid, and it looked great on the screen. But when I harvested it it was more of a goopy mess than last week.

I harvested 11oz (wet)

I'm trying to figure out your 1 real watt per gallon rule. i have around 120 gallons of water in the system. I have 4 bulbs, so you are saying I need each bulb to be 30 watts, correct? So it doesn't matter what the equivalent watts are, just the actual wattage of the bulb, correct? Im trying to get this thing as efficient as possible.


Oh and i'm also excited because Coraline is finally starting to grow on the back wall again since I moved the tank.




tested the water 4 days ago:

Nitrate - 0 (I have 8 fish and feeding cubes/flakes 2x/day)

P04 - 0.22 this went up since last testing

Alk - 9.6

Calcium - 540

Mag. - 1500




http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6132.jpg


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6133.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6134.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6135.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6136.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6137.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6138.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6139.jpg

[SantaMonica]

The band is blocked flow; you should remove the screen from the pipe to clean it.

Bubbles are just oxygen.

The darker growth you get with iron is just more proteins, which of course use up more N and P, so it is good. As long as it does not get too dark and thick, which blocks light.

30 real watts each, correct.

Coralline is proving that P is now at low levels.

[Wavecookies]

Still having issues with stringy like brown algae in the DT. I have to blow it off of the corals or it suffocates them, any suggestions? Here are some pics. I dont know what portions are die-off because of the scrubber and what parts are just new algae. Is it Cyano? also in the sand, some of it is clumpy.

BTW my fish are camera hams...

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6151.jpg

killed the gorg...
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6150.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6148.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6147.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6145.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6144.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6143.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj198/wavecookies/DSCF6142.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Hmmm... well new coralline would mean P is coming down. But algae growth on the plastic frag tray would mean P is still high in the water. Either way, If you've been scrubbing a while, then your scrubber is not too strong. You could spend the time to try to improve it, or let it operate slowly the way it is. Cutting feeding in half would really speed it up too.

[Wavecookies]

coraline growth has been slow but steady since I first started to notice it 2 weeks ago.

I feed twice a day, generous pinch of flakes and 1 small cube of omnivors diet frozen. im thinking of just switching the flake I use and go with another form of frozen that is smaller in micron size. The omnivor diet cubes have slightly larger chunks of food and my fish are medium size. I suspect that the leftovers are settling inside crevasis of the rockwork and begin left to rot.

My clean up crew has dwindled in numbers and I only have around 10 mini blue hermits, and a few odd snails and limpets around. also 2 mexican turbos. should I implement more of a cleanup crew while i'm at it? i'm not feeding much as it is.

My bulbs in my DT are also super old. Im going to upgrade the wattage on the scrubber bulbs when I get back next week to the wattage you recommended.

[Wavecookies]

HELP

I ended up staying out of town for a little over 2 weeks. I got back to a DT filled with brown algae all over the sand (and a lot of the rocks), and a brown stringy mess on the back glass.

The scrubber wasnt doing so well, either. It has turned a brownish reddish color mixed with spots of dark green.

Thats the last time I leave the boyfriend in charge of the tank.

The feeding schedule was erratic, and leads me to believe he diddnt feed enough. Also the lighting is not on timers (totally my fault for not setting it up before leaving town...) and i'm sure he probably left the tank lights on too long/ the scrubber lights not long enough.....ect.

ive cleaned out a lot of the algae in the DT, and the scrubber is starting to grow back greener (after only 2 days of stability....i can only imagine what happened when i wasnt here!!!)

1) Now my issues is that the tank water is kind of cloudy (like a whitish cloudy, not yellow or green). I'm going to try to take a picture but I dont know how well that will show up. What might have caused this?

2) I also figured its about time to upgrade bulbs to your recommended specifications for high filtering, the only problem is I am using 23watt (actual, its 100 watt equivalent) spiral bulbs and my local Lowes and Home Depot dont sell any spiral bulbs with higher wattage than 23watt. Do you know of a place, either locally or online, that sells the spiral bulbs at higher wattage? Also, bulbs are about 4-5 inches away from the screen, will the higher wattage burn the screen? I only ask because with the current setup I have no way to move the lights back more than they already are.

3) is it possible to underfeed the scrubber? if this happens will the DT algae grow out of control? I ask because since cleaning the rocks when I moved, and right before I left town, the scrubber was growing great BUT old spots of thick hair algae have since grown back on a few of the rocks. Maybe those specific rocks are still leaching phosphates? its only 2 or 3 rocks that seem to just attract a mountain of algae (all at different depths in the tank, which made me rule out direct lighting correlation)


Thanks

[SantaMonica]

The tank will clear up on it's own.

You can use up to 40 watt bulbs, at 5" distance. Try 1000bulbs.com

P is coming out of those rocks. It will eventually stop.

[Reefkeeper82]

My setup is very similar to yours. I did a few modification to the piping to help control water flow.

I have no problem with Algae in my display tank at all. Tank is super clean and so is water. Only problem is nitrate... I'm really hoping it will start to drop so I can start feed my corals.

This is truly a blessing for us reefers. :) I hate complicated systems simply because they are complicated! Using ATS for filtration is just genius.

[Wavecookies]

update:

got water tested yesterday. other than Kent Marine Iron and Magneese i havent been dosing anything.

Mag. - 1680 (high...)
Nitrate - 0.2 (YAY!)
Calcium - 500
Alk. - 7.2
Phosphate - 0.10 (YAY!)


Horrible algae mess has cleared up more and more. Now all my lights and scrubber are on timers.

the 40 watt bulbs were like $11-12 a piece, plus shipping, and I honestly don't have the extra cash to spend on just bulbs right now :( It was either bulbs or groceries this week and I picked food! lol. I bought 23watt 35K CFL bulbs 4-pack at Lowes for $12.

Since installing them yesterday, and cleaning the screen 2 days ago, the screen is growing back a brighter green.

I'm so happy about my low phosphates. Thanks Santa!

[SantaMonica]

Nice :)

[Wavecookies]

new tidbit of info.

brown algae mess keeps coming back every few days if I dont blow it off with a turkey baster.

traced it back to WTH could I be doing wrong?

new bulbs- check
new light fixture over DT with new bulbs - check

Then I decided to check my daily top-off water with a TDS meter. i buy my RODI water from a local LFS. Ive been using it for over a year.... TDS reading of 16. this may be the reason I can never keep algae under control. possible silicates from RODI water? I add over 2.5 gallons a day of top-off water, so possibly this was contributing to the problem?

I started using RODI water from a friend that tests out 0 with the TDS meter. its been 4 days so far, i'll keep you all updated with pictures over the next few days

Just for comparison the faucet water has a reading of 287 TDS for cold water, and 319 for hot water.......EW. :shock:

[SantaMonica]

The 16 tds could be all phosphate. True, if a scrubber is strong enough, it could handle it, but until you get your scrubber figured out, you don't need any question marks.

[Wavecookies]

posted a video on youtube of the kind of algae issues i am having.

What else can I do do get rid of this stuff?

Also I am having a bad luck keeping zoanthids and mushrooms (besides the green fuzzy ones, which havent grown, either) alive. Would my algae issue have anything to do with this or do you think its unrelated?

[Wavecookies]

forgot to add the link, oops....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5oTs9hSRrI

[SantaMonica]

Going to try to guess everything from the one video, especially since it was moving fast and was not clear how the rocks really looked:

1. Looks like algae is on rocks only. This would mean nutrients in water are low, and P is coming of the rocks.

2. No algae on plastic parts. This would mean nutrients are low in water.

3. Algae blows off easily from rocks. This would mean the algae is almost dead from nutrients almost gone from rocks.

4. Softies having trouble. This would mean very low nutrients in water.

5. You have a strong looking scrubber, and it's been running several months.


Put together, I'd say that your rocks were loaded with P from a previous time, and that your scrubber pulled nutrients down very low in the water, and is almost done removing P from the rocks. Softies having trouble in the mean time.

Fix: Feed more, more, more.

2X more this week, 3X more next week, 4X the following week, and keep increasing until the softies do better. This will put more nutrients in the water to help the softies, but will not slow down the P coming out of the rocks too much. Feed some type of particle food like rotifers, that are too small for the fish to grab them all.

[Wavecookies]

1. Its terrible on the sandbed, as well. I have to sift daily or its horrible looking.

2. algae is all over the overflow box, like it attracts it or something. The large mexican turbo snails and the sea cucumber eat it though, because there is a nice clean trail on the overflow box where they went through. Its also all over the back glass, though it doesnt look like its inhibiting coraline growth on the glass.

3. algae blows off easily from everywhere, the problem is it re-appears with a vengance, in the same place, the next day. :shock:

4. not all softies are struggling. Hairy mushrooms are opening fine, as are yumas. Its only 4 colonies of zoanthids that I have that will not open anymore. The light blue palythoas are doing fine, though. Im not sure if this problem is caused by the algae or possibly by a Zoanthid-eating nudibranc, I'm going to dip the colonies accordingly, though.

5.thanks :)


I'm feeding more like you recommended. I am feeding things more targeted towards softies as well as the fish now.

some sps are growing. an ecrusting monti is spreading rapidly, and a digi's growth has been exponential. other corals are suffering, though, and I dont want to add any new corals to the tank until I get this algae under control.

Do you know what kind of algae it is, by any chance?

here is a link to the new video I posted on Youtube of the problem. This one shows the problem on the sandbed more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDEAETwGmtE

also, I would like to note that in the area where 1 powerhead is hitting directly on a rock, that rock is free and clean of any kind of algae at all, and it looks AWESOME. If I could just get the rest of the algae under control I would be ecstatic. :mrgreen:

[SantaMonica]

Then if you have algae on plastic parts, that changes things. This mean you have more nutrients in your water that your scrubber can pull out. So... Cut feeding to 1/4 of what you were feeding. Make your scrubber stronger, using every technique.

[Wavecookies]

okie dokie will do. Also the second screen has ripped 3" near the bottom about half way across. This is warping the screen a bit and i'm sure its hindering scrubbing power.

My question is:

1) should I make another screen or just use fishing line and sew up the rip?

2) I clean the screen by scraping it with a dull butter knife, is this ok or should I just use a hard brush?

3) whats the best Kelvin spectrum for the bulbs on the scrubber. Ive seen a few different setups with slightly different kelvins, anywhere from 2500 to 3700, but what kelvin is the "best" for growing?

Thanks again Santa, i'm sure i'm gonna get this all under control one of these days :D

[SantaMonica]

Depends how grown-in the current screen is. If the holes are all filled in, I'd keep it.

Clean it however you need to so that you see plastic when you are done.

2700 or 3000k seem best.

[Floyd R Turbo]

There is reasoning behind the 2700-3500K spectrum. That light is photosynthetically more intense, watt for watt, then higher K ratings.

[Wavecookies]

Thanks

[Wavecookies]

ok.

phosphates are down to 0.08 but the algae on the rock and sand is still overwhelming and looks bad. it gets progressively worse as the day goes on until lights out.

some people have suggested its cyano and suggested i do a lights-out for 3 days on the DT. what do you think?

Ive changed my return pump to the tank so im getting like 900gph now, as opposed to 300gph before.

I also changed all my T5 bulbs. All bulbs are brand-spankin-new (thanks wayne!)

Should I just continue feeding less? Phosphates are dropping, but the algae isnt getting any better, this is what makes me think its cyano bacteria.

and suggestions SM? Anything in the right direction would be awesome.


thanks

[SantaMonica]

If the P is dropping, it's working. Cyano will hold on till the last second, though.

[Wavecookies]

ok thanks i'll just stick it out then and see what happens.

I just lost a very nice mini colony of branching setosa that ive had for over 7 months. my water is excellent besides the phosphates and the algae, so I was just getting worried that the algae might have been the cause.