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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
There's a bit of that, sure.
But how else do you drive things forward? If everyone just settled for what we've got we'd all still be living in mud huts and eating grass wouldn't we?
Incidentally, it's not complicated to add CO2. Mine is just a plastic bottle with a bit of airline stuck through the lid and some sugar solution & yeast inside. It's making one bubble every 1 or 2 seconds at the moment.
I do agree, but i think i'll stay with the "old school" system :)Quote:
But how else do you drive things forward? If everyone just settled for what we've got we'd all still be living in mud huts and eating grass wouldn't we?
I dont think the new version is meant to replace ALL waterfall designs, it is simply another option. Honestly where it really shines for me is the possibilities it opens for tanks that dont have a sump, and the possibilities for a generic design that is no harder to install than a HOB filter. I am undecided if I will make one like this or a waterfall design for my saltwater tank, but if I ever make a scrubber for my freshwater tanks it will be based on this design.
The mineral oil is my idea, not part of the original plan by SM. As I said the mineral oil solves 2 problems of LEDs inside a sealed enclosure under pressure. My idea was was for an easily removeable and cleanable fixture that could be mass produced. It was not an idea for a DIY fixture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
BTW: Everyone seems so worried about mineral oil in your aquarium and not saltwater in electronics inside your aquarium.... Why is that? Sure if ALL the mineral oil leaked out and covered the entire surface of the aquarium that would definately impede gas exchange.... Other than that does anyone know that mineral oil would even hurt critters in an aquarium?
Either way it should not be an issue to seal an acrylic box. Assemble it, seal it on all sides but one, then fill it 99% of the way with mineral oil, then seal the top on, and make sure it is watertight, you could just drop it in a container of water for a few hours and make sure no mineral oil floats to the top of the container, and make sure there is no water at the bottom of the fixture. Then put a layer of silicone over the outsides of all the seams just to be sure it wont leak.
If you're going to seal LEDs in a waterproof box and submerge them in water, why do you need mineral oil?
Won't the water keep them cool enough?
And might need to buy a chiller after that !
LOL :)
-deleted by Ace25- I never created this thread.
Air is a poor conductor of heat, even more so when it is not moving. The air (and plastic) between the heatsink inside the box and the water outside the box acts as an insulator. If you replace the air with mineral oil, heat will be conducted away from the LEDs+heatsink much faster than air. It would drastically decrease the temp of the LEDs and increase their life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpy Pumpy
The whole box would be inside the aquarium, so it would transfer the heat to the water, not 100% ideal, but overall better than LEDs burning out. Plastic is also a poor conductor of heat, if the walls of the box were very thick, it would be better to use glass, that conducts heat much better and would keep the LEDs cooler. I think it would usually be fine with plastic though. Also remember that while LEDs have to be kept cool, they dont produce nearly as much heat as other types of light. I doubt 2-5 LEDs inside a decent sized aquarium will cause any overheating issue unless one was present already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace25
I feel this is an oversimplification, however I do tend to agree with you. I feel that the new design is better for setups without a sump and setups with low water flow. The old design is easier to DIY if you have a sump to work with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace25
I would respectfully argue that proving the skimmate has phosphate in it, is not the same as proving the skimmer removed phosphate from the water. I feel a better test would be to put a tank in a dark room, fill it up with water of a known phosphate level, then put in the skimmer and measure the phosphate of the water later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace25
Somebody please change the title of this forum to UPFLOW from UPLOW. I know it's not important but details matter in this game.
That's the name of the section it's in :)
Oh that is funny I never noticed that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Garf
i would of noticed last night but i was stuck in the TIMEWARP that occured to some of us. To say i was baffled is an understatement.
Today I decided to end the testing of new upflow, it works and what it could do just as well as the previous method, in my case is more complicated or cleaning, not to mention the annoying noise of the air pump
In my case it is complicated to even contact of bubbles along the mesh
I'll wait for the libration of the most complex models of this new system to see if they make me change my current ats, back to my traditional method fed by my fall
regards
I would think more difficult problems have been solved. If there is enough bubble flow, the screen will be lifted right up in it.Quote:
In my case it is complicated to even contact of bubbles along the mesh
I get it ... can't respond so just delete my posts.. very mature.
Thought I would post this here aswell.. Has anyone noticed any difference in the bubble interation in freshater vs saltwater, due to the water density......
The source of the white spots on the screen apparently has been found: A neon tetra knows how to get to the screen and hold his position in the rapid bubbles, while eating in one spot.
Am I missing something or are all of ACE25 's comments gone? I read this thread last night and now I don't see any of his posts. I wanted to go back through today and read everything with a clear head.
His phosphate posts are here...
http://algaescrubber.net/forums/show...-vs-Phosphorus
Great :P after a long wait here it is at last...
since I am working on my own POC, I will give this design a test and see what gives. I came up with an idea for setting it in the sump...let me know what you think:
Attachment 2201
Attachment 2202
The idea is to hang the screen from a rod placed laterally on the sump's edge...have the airstone pump bubbles up the screen... still trying to figure out the lights though...how to have them on both sides of the screen....
my sump is divided into 3 sections:
1- water coming in from the tank then flows down into
2- main section -- usually to have skimmer & other gizmos
3- auto top off section...
so I guess the wall separating the "water-in" chamber from the main chamber can be made into a mirror and have the light at the side of the sump....ill draw it and post...
Here's the design with lighting.
Attachment 2203
what do you think?
I figured 2x the light would be needed because light will be reflected back onto the other side of the screen...but then its just guesswork on my part so I need input from the pros out there.
Ok just figured out something...
my original thought was that tying the screen would help in the cleaning process...just take the entire rod off along with the screen, scrub it and return...but I just figured I will need a way to keep screen in the air flow's path....maybe have the entire system to be removable? I mean secure screen to rod and airstone using zip ties or similar...just disconnect airstone from pump when need to wash and replace/reconnect when done...
I liked the epoxy idea proposed by Floyd to cover up all the sides of the stone thereby directing flow upwards only...would aquarium safe silicone be a good alternative? dunno about finding safe epoxy over here :(
so basically, to get back:
airstone sealed at 3 sides, leaving just the top side open to allow air out.
screen fastened to stone at the bottom and rod at the top.
rod rests on sumps edge...
since its all still on the theoretical side, im thinking if the first chamber will have enough of a water column to cover the screen up, since it will be the in-flow of water from the tank... maybe if i made the screen wider (40cm) with less height...SM would there be a difference impacting growth? I mean the intent is to have water covering the entire screen right? if water column is not too high, then i guess compensation would have to be done with the width to achieve desired surface area...
That what Doompie did. However the mirror will be blocked out in a few days.
Other idea will be to make a setup like those designed for engraving PCB like this:
http://www2.i-services.net/images/me...492274_754.jpg
But with an entry point and exit for the water to flow through, and you can even put lights on each side :)
OKK...you are right SM...Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
sorry but its been nearly 36 hours up with practically no sleep (upgrading local operator 3G network and had some issues...)
since I dont want to play with immersed lights (esp the DIY part) I guess I'd have to look into something else...what about the angles used in your first post on this thread? is it any good? or maybe use two one-sided screens instead of one two sided...which is better you think?
2-sided screens are always better; gets twice the light to the roots, which keeps the roots alive twice as long.
you are right SM...
thinking of placing the screen in the middle section of the sump and lighting from both sides...but we are talking of around 40 cm width...which means if screen is in the middle, there will be 20cm on each side from the glass wall of the sump...if I place my lights there, thats like almost 8" away from lights...do u think its too far for positive growth?
this is what I mean:
Attachment 2204
i could cover the entire section with plexiglass or just glass to prevent splashes and evaporation...
Why not, for an external use an acrylic box, like the nano 1 made by SM, but fed from the bottom with a powerhead + venturi going though a perforated or slotted tube, and the exit at the top ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
you mean there is only water flowing past the screen?
No, as the power head is fed with a venturi intake, like on a skimmerQuote:
you mean there is only water flowing past the screen?
So it'll see both water flow and air at the same time, and you can even make it a sealed, just a couple of nylon bolts to remove the top for cleaning the grown algae.
I think I can picture it...so u have a stationnary screen in a plexi box, with a water/air current flowing past it from the bottom up....or from the top down as in the previous scrubber models...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Im guessing it could even be horizontal... aesthetically speaking, minimal profile...something like this perhaps?
Attachment 2205
the box would need to constantly be filled with water I guess...
Almost spot on !
I'm pretty bad at drawings, so.....
And the circulation will be bottom > top
ok, so here is bad drawing of it...
Attachment 2206
But put a water tight lid with nylon screws and seal + leds on the out side.
Water + air (venturi on a PH) comes from bottom, the screen is in the middle, and water exits from the top drain.
It's complete water tight and can be set up anywhere, and any size you want.
OKK I read u now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
there would be head pressure to consider for the PH...also whats the diff between bottom --> top vrs. top to bottom flow (sorry if I missed anything in previous discussions)...
a final Q: the box would be permanently filled with water?
Okay, is this what we were waiting on for May 1? Is there anything else to expect to come out tomorrow?
This is great! Do you clean this in the same way as the old ats? (with tap water and everything?)
so with water flowing from bottom to top, I guess we would have something like this
Attachment 2207
of course lights would be hitting the flat ends of the screen but I drew them like this to show positioning on both sides...
what I need is an in-sump system as I don't want anything above the tank...or anywhere for that matter...with 3 boys in the house (10, 7 and 4yrs old) I dont want to leave anything exposed...plus I would like to have as much of the equipment needed (heater etc) down bellow..
having the design in the pic above would mean I would have to immerse the lights and at this point I cannot consider this option...unless I find immersible lights but then it would be an issue of getting the correct power etc etc...
you just leave this sitting directly on top of the powerhead, and if the scrubber "fixture" is above the sump no need for real waterproof lights no ?Quote:
I dont want to leave anything exposed...plus I would like to have as much of the equipment needed (heater etc) down bellow..
I would think you would have to weigh down the bottom edge of the screen or else it will never stay vertical. This is why zip-tieing it to the airstone is shown.
was looking for the bulb smiley... :) I believe Eurka is the word (except in this case it would be euriko or whatever conjugation ... my latin was always kinda scrappy)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
it would be the same as the old SM design, fed from the sump and returning to the sump...only change is the screen attachement, no slot needed and the injection of air with the water via the venturi hookup...correct?
sounds like it !
And i would even add some kind of wight at the screen bottom to keep it vertical
yep Floyd...I think attaching the screen to both top part and the stone would guarantee a straight screen without any bends or flexing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo
In the design we're talking about there is no more stone, just a tube with holes in it, like a spray bar.Quote:
I think attaching the screen to both top part and the stone would guarantee a straight screen without any bends or flexing...
Or did i miss something ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
in your design, there is no need for stone but the screen would need to be attached on both ends to prevent flexing I guess..Id be curious to see how the algae would be growing on this though...against the water flow or with it and against gravity??? i mean u have water+air flowing upwards, rubbing against the screen...
the stone attachment would be in a setup similar to the one in my previous drawing....
ouch my head hurts :D I need a drink and sleep I guess
Jason did you try the method we are discussing or is it only in theory ??
I guess the upflow is for the bubbles, they usually go up in water :)
And maybe, really maybe, it'll help the algae strands from collapsing and thus giving more light and "food" to the roots (if they have any, and i dout about it)
I didn't see the second page going when I wrote that...
All great ideas but I have a feeling after a year of working on various designs, you're going to see these ideas released in a few months. Doesn't mean you can't build one now.
FYI this is my build and you'll probably be seeing a thread on it soon
Attachment 2208
Attachment 2209
Attachment 2210
I don't have my reef tank setup yet, still missing some stuff to finish it (quite an investment).Quote:
Jason did you try the method we are discussing or is it only in theory ??
So it's all by deduction and theory, and usually i am good at mecanical flow stuff (part of my job as well, having equipment running @ 7000psi and >400 degF)
Floyd
this is using the "new" design? what screen size do you have on that?
speaking of build threads, I should take pics and upload them into my journal I guess...sump was finished on Saturday...its drying up right now...waiting for the stand to be completed etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo
So this is more or less what i was talking about, but i'll have the flow bottom up, and sealed, driven by a pump + venturi for bubbles :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Im moving into SW after some time on FW setups myself...the whole ATS was the catalyst as it proposed a cheaper alternative solution...
over here, a simple sump runs at around 1200 US$...skimmers start at 150$ and can reach 800$...a decent reef ready tank would be between 1000 and 2500 US$... then u have the different reactors etc...LR goes at around 10$ per kilo...then u have the corals and the fish...
I tell you by the time you are done, your investment would have reached somewhere around 5 or 6k... so the ability to DIY and the simplicity of the whole deal was what attracted me in the first place...plus the reduction in maintenance and stuff to worry about...but I am going off into tangents...back to topic :)
Yeah but that defeats the purpose of the screen staying submerged when you lose power. The system would back-siphon and empty the box.
wouldnt the risk be similar in top-bottom flows as well? in the event of a power outage (and we get LOTS of them in here) and by the time the generators have powered on, the box would have drained by the action of gravity...right? or am I missing somehting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo
If the pump stays submerged and the exit tube as well, there will be no back syphon at all.Quote:
Yeah but that defeats the purpose of the screen staying submerged when you loose power. The system would back-siphon and empty the box.
As no air can get in it :)
PS:
Look at this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=likPr...feature=relmfu
Yeah I saw that one a week or so ago
Mine is a UAS
Waterfall scrubbers will inherently drain and dry out on an extended power outage or pump clog (which happened to me once). With a submerged screen this cannot happen.
Maybe you're talking about something else, but with a box above the tank or sump and a pump feeding it, if the outlet from the pump into the scrubber box is at the bottom of the box, when the power goes off the flow will gravity feed back down through the feed hose and drain the box. This is why my pump outlet is at the top above the water level. There's zero chance of the screen drying out. The power would have to be out for 3 days before the screen starts to die.
Now if you're talking about a box that sits beside the sump, then on power outage the water level would equalize.
No, i'm talking about having the "box UAS thingy" sitting above the sump level (it's ugly to have stuff around a nice looking tank).
If the pump feeding it is below water level, and the hose coming back down from the "box UAS thingy" is below water as well it will not drain.
Of course it needs to be a sealed "box UAS thingy" .......
Hey guys as far as reflective materials.. what are we talking about.. mirrors?.. whats reef safe?
Jason, you are missing something here. If you have a box that sits on top of a sump, with the pump in the sump and the outlet for that pump at the bottom of a box that sits on top of the sump, such that the water is fed into the bottom of the box and exits/drains out the top, when you cut the power to the pump the water has no choice but to drain out through the supply hose. There's just no other way around it, unless you out a check valve in place, or unless you have the feed pipe go up over the top edge of the box and down to the bottom, then add a siphon break.
If you do as you just described, there's just no other conclusion.
If you had a "sealed" box for your UAS, you wouldn't be able to pump water into it because there would be no exit. If there was an exit, air would get sucked back in through the exit, unless the exit line was underwater in the sump as well. But then the air from the venturi would cause this and that and whatever. Your logic is completely failing me.
It came into my mind before! You worked it out, amazing!
Jason
No need to seal anything. Both inlet and outlet has to be made in upper part of box. Nothing in the bottom.
To make flow on screen to go upwards you will need to add one bafle at the inlet end. Done.
OK, so I guess I badly express my self, and it's pretty obvious to understand......Quote:
Jason, you are missing something here. If you have a box that sits on top of a sump, with the pump in the sump and the outlet for that pump at the bottom of a box that sits on top of the sump, such that the water is fed into the bottom of the box and exits/drains out the top, when you cut the power to the pump the water has no choice but to drain out through the supply hose. There's just no other way around it, unless you out a check valve in place, or unless you have the feed pipe go up over the top edge of the box and down to the bottom, then add a siphon break.
If you do as you just described, there's just no other conclusion.
If you had a "sealed" box for your UAS, you wouldn't be able to pump water into it because there would be no exit. If there was an exit, air would get sucked back in through the exit, unless the exit line was underwater in the sump as well. But then the air from the venturi would cause this and that and whatever. Your logic is completely failing me.
So read carefully what I say:
http://osmosisaquariums.gr/images/stories/2.jpg
LOL I did not say much actually :)
I this easyier to picture ? instead of a U shaped tube, you have a sealed box with the entry point connected to a pump, below water level in the sump, and the exit comes down below water level in the sump as well.........it will NEVER empty as air cannot go in, SIMPLE.
As for the bubbles, they will stop being produced as the same time the pump stups, because the pump + venturi is making them.
Very crude Paint drawing to explain my idea....... "sealed" upflow air scrubber (pump has venturi) and the algae will stay in water with a loss in electricity.
Attachment 2213
taggin along, this should be interesting.
I get it, I'm just saying there's no way the box won't empty. You would have to seal it with silicone or something, or a rubber gasket and locking flange like on a reactor. Plus then how are you going to get into it to clean and service the screen? As for air not getting into the box - airstone/venturi! You're going to be constantly blowing air into the box, then when you lose power the water will I guarantee drain out because the water is heavier and will just end up creating a vacuum unless the box is always devoid of air.
That is why I was saying "SEALED" with a gasket under the lid held down by some nylon screws.
As for the bubbles they'll be flushed out with the water flow.If there is no flow there is no point doing this in a sealed box outside of the tank or sump no ?
And I did not say at anytime an airstone, just venturi.
There will be a "layer" of air at the top, for sure, but the screen will definitely stay in water.
For the vacuum forming, it's kind of "non measurable" as both sides are connected to the same water level and it will balance.
Of course if this thing is a couple of meters above the water line that's an other story :)
No way this would be easier than "old" style.
No, one new thing per month.Quote:
Is there anything else to expect to come out tomorrow
Plastic mirrors seem to be ok. Any metallic chemicals would probably be absorbed by the algae.Quote:
mirrors?.. whats reef safe?
I agree, but if it's more efficient why not ?Quote:
No way this would be easier than "old" style.
And it's just an idea anyway.
And it's just the assumption of "the water will drain out no matter what " that upsets me, and according to our current laws of physics about pressure equilibrium in fluids it will not drain.
So, finish for me about this "single brain storming" development idea.
I had an in tank test unit going in less then three minutes after I rounded up the parts. No if I can just get it to grow algae LOL. I got my SW HOB unit growing algae and my FW is trying to but my pleco really likes it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kotlec
I guess if you sealed it perfectly, including all bulkheads/etc, thumbscrews, etc that it might work. I still think though that with a pocket of air at the top, your box it going to at least partially drain, and if the seal isn't 100% then the only time you will find out is when the power goes out. If there's a slight leak in the seal, and the box is running, the water level won't be affected because the excess air would just get pushed out by pressure and water would go down the drain. When the power goes out, your box drains.
Also I just thought of this. If you have a 100% sealed box with a drain at the top, and you push in an air/water mixture, you're going to create an air pocket at the top. This air must go somewhere if you want to continue with flow through the box. With the box sealed, there is only one place for this air to go: down the drain. Your drain is not going to be full of water, it will be full of air, as the air will never get fully purged from the box.
Eventually, the air in the box would collect and pressurize and one of two things would happen: The air would get pushed down the drain pipe and "blurp" out every once in a while (during which time, little water would flow) or the box would get "airlocked". This is what happens to household sump pumps when they are improperly plumbed (I know). The pump pushing the water ends up fighting air compression, and cannot pump any more water. To minimize the risk of airlock, you would need to terminate the drain pipe just below the sump water level. The problem here is that when you lose power, the drain pipe is mostly air and this will try to suck up water as the pressure in the box drops from the water wanting to fall. This will cause a rapid suction up the drain pipe and if there's air anywhere near that termination point, it's going to suck it in until the water level in the drain pipe is at the level in the box and a balance is achieved. So to minimize that, you have to terminate the drain lower in the water, but then you run into airlock.
The solution to this would probably be to snake an airline down the drain pipe all the way to the sump, so that the air had a lower-pressure route to escape when this situation arises. I'm not sure that would work or not, but it makes sense.
I still think that it's more trouble than it would be worth to make a sealed box than it would just to do what I did, which is just pump it into the top and use an airstone. You could also just put in a check valve to prevent backflow instead of sealing the box and relying on that. But, either way, you're relying on something functioning properly to prevent the box from draining.
That looks remarkably like a Tunze overflow box to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Dennis
Apart from the water pipes, that is exactly the same as my AtsQuote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo
So what are ya saying Dennis? LOL
I came up with this general box design (1/4" black acrylic light blocking on all 4 sides extending out from the core center) over a year ago, but never started building them because 1) I was too busy and 2) screen sizing guidelines changed and 3) I got hinted about the new design so I held off. This is my type-I L2 scrubber box converted to a type-II. It nearly completely blocks the LED light with the lid on. On the tank, with the room dark, my monitor on my PC outshines it 20 to 1 easily.
Attachment 2215
Attachment 2217
Attachment 2216
The side outlet is standard on the type-I box (emergency drain), I just didn't drill the bottom drain and I sealed over the slot tube notches, drilled a hole for the pump input, and a hole for the airline through the lid.
Great minds think alike mate.
The only difference is that my box is 18" long to allow it to rest on the sump dividers, but I did drill 2 drain holes in the base
Dennis
Anyone have any pics of a uas in action?
Bump.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob.morgan78
I'm curious because I want to start planning for my first scrubber and don't know exactly what to go with because of all the ideas floating around.
Yes, its a little confusing for some b/c the dates are weird. A few of us got plans a month early for testing. This is the new scrubber design, very much in a testing phase right now. Your looking at the "Upflow Algae Scrubber" or UAS...Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob.morgan78
Why not just do a test tank to start with.
I think I'm picking up a 5g tank.. light it up from both sides... and drill an over flow.. done!...
Any specs on how close the spotlights have to be to the scrubber?..
None yet. I believe however that lights will be able to be placed closer, with higher power, but we'll have to see.
on mine, the screen drifted in the box so it's literally right against the acrylic with the LEDs 1" or less away. No difference in growth between the sides. After the screen starts, it's looking like you can put the lights as close as you want which is very interesting.
what about having around 20cm distance from the light? in a previous post I was thinking of placing the UAS on the sump dividers and let it dangle in the water in the middle chamber of the sump...lights would have to be at both sides of the sump as per the drawing :Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo
Attachment 2226 (this is a top view of my sump)
does anyone think it would be an issue? I guess lighting power would have to be increased....so the watt per sq in rule might need to be adapted a little??
I found this table on another site (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/li...-t12-pc-2.html)Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello
Attachment 2230
I will try to use this to work out the best lighting distance....algae experts out there, is it safe to assume that algae and plants share the same lighting needs?
You try and tell us :)
Unfortunately no LEDs on this chart.
The biggest variable is probably the spreading of the light without reflectors; not the amount of water it has to go though. If you used lenses it might help. Just make it change-able. Also, covering as much surface with reflectors as possible, including the top, would help.
just a thought... but look at the light reflecting on the top of the water....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv4G6...feature=relmfu
maybe these could be custom made
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aquarium-...item256f674dd6
sorry should of added this one too..
hey guys quick question... obviously the easiest way to do this while we wait for the prettier ones is to do a one sided screen right.. so double the streen area. double the watts on one side.. and done. you have the same size scrubber as before.. am I right?
That sounds logical!
i think there is an issue with single sided screens and roots not beibg abke to attach furmly enough. at least this is what I understood ...Quote:
Originally Posted by dtyharry
And why not give air to the water flowing from the top of the screen. I just plugged pomke - so far without dice aerators - and the effect is great. Water flows down the screen foamed.
And this is my box, screen and lighting - LED current on the tapes smd5060. The whole works without problems for almost 1.5 years.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
Hello everybody,
This is my first post here, I currently have a 6 month old 5g tank with just a small internal filter and a powerhead as means of filtration.
I'm currently gathering ideas and equipment for my 15g tank and I would really like to keep it as simple as possible so I want to give the new ats design a shot!
Currently I have 3 designs utilizing the uas principle:
1) I call it "intank uas"
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/v.../intankuas.jpg
This is the simplest and smallest design I could think of.
It is just a small box for the screen, either lit by the display light or through the glass with leds.
A small pump should be used to feed the scrubber with nutrient rich water.
2) slim HOB uas.
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/v...ah/HOBuas1.jpg
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/v...ah/HOBuas2.jpg
This design has a pump in a small overflow box and the water flows through the uas much like it would in a regular HOB filter.
The Hob filter should be designed to accommodate a heater so the dt is less cluttered.
3) less slim HOB uas.
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/v...ah/HOBuas4.jpg
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/v...ah/HOBuas3.jpg
Pretty much the same as design 2, but the overflow box is just larger and could house a heater.
The screen box is just way smaller then design 2.
Some more info about this build:
either a 10x10cm screen (4x4") or a 7,5x10cm screen (3x4").
Will lit it with a diy 9x1W led fixture (6x 660nm, 2x 630nm and 1x 460nm).
All input is welcome!
Jb
Air flowing down the screen, on a submerged screen !
Do you mean this http://http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1838-Co2-turbo
If not, please explain how you do it.
I like them :)
Thanks! I didn't really knew if I should post it here, but I guess I should have :P
I'm closely following Doompie's progress, because we both live in Holland.
He has given me some pointers and ideas which I took into consideration with my own designs.
One of the goals I hope to be able to accomplish is having a pair of mandarins in this tank, so I sure hope that the uas will house lots and lots of pods!
Jb
An interesting test would be to let the mandarins into the screen area; they would not eat the algae, but would target the pods.
Perhaps just let them into a small portion of the screen.
That is an interesting thought, but how could I do that? the only option I see is putting the screen in the display before a cleaning.
All other options would stress the fish or cause problems with light spilling (I'm biased towards option 3 right now).
Jb
I was thinking of an all-mandarin tank. Otherwise the other fish will eat the algae, like my tetra who has found a home there.
#1 may not need the pump since the current generated by the airstone should circulate water. That's pretty much the design I'm going to try, when I get the time...
You might want to put a lid on the designs to control salt creep. All those bursting bubbles will create a mess if there is no top.
You will probably find you don't need to expose the screen at all. I had a mandarin for 5 years. If you have a supply, ie an algal screen, the pods will proliferate and survive in your rocks for long enough to feed this beautiful fish. A supply of fresh pods to the display is the key. Considering your on an algae site, your probably gonna be ok.
Welcome here :D
As stated before, I like your designs very much. Well though off and I think will perform..Too add a lid seems like a good idea.
Yeah I was thinking a pair of blue mandarins or lsd mandarins and a couple of pretty inverts.Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
I left that out of the rendering ;) Also a small hole in that lid should reduce the noise of the bubble a lot!Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganAtlanta
What do you mean with an algae site?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garf
Jb
This site, ie an "algae site" obviously has people interested in algae scrubbers. Algae scrubbers are a haven for juvenile copepods, these then get dispersed throughout the system to feed delicate eaters like mandarin.
I let my screens set in my 10G before I clean them because I have a mandarin in that tank that is fat an happy now. Nice designs to, I made a HOB but am battling the bubbles, I like your way of sorting out the bubbles, I was going to put mine in a sump with baffles.
Exactly! Had not noticed your topic. It seems that this would enhance the growth of algae.
Sorry for the spelling, but I use Google translator.
How are those leds working for you? I was only able to find 630nm leds like that...Quote:
Originally Posted by jaczal
For my design a slim light fixture is essential.
Jb
@jbowser I am white 3000K. Also, I can not buy 660nm. I did tests with red tape (630nm) and blue (430nm), but were not satisfactory. I used the tape because of the simplicity of the structure. Lighting panel located in the depths of my 15mm. A box thus has a width of 110mm.
So how many leds are you using and how big is your screen? I guess these leds have a few advantages over hp leds, although its a shame they don't have more wavelengths...Quote:
Originally Posted by jaczal
Jb
300 LED Strip, 150 per page. Two 170mm on 90mm screens. Yes, the basic advantage is simplicity of design lighting panel and requires no heat sinks.
jaczal can you please post a pic of those LED strips? I have seen some strips at the local Hard Ware store and was wondering if they are the same and can be used...the ones I saw need no sink and come in a long strip that can be cut to length and powered up by souldering powr cable to two spots...Quote:
Originally Posted by jaczal
I believe he has 3528 ledstrips, there are also 5050 ledstrips.
They can be powered by any 12V walltransformer (if the wattage is sufficient off course).
As far as I know there are 2 version of these strips, 60 leds per meter or 120 leds per meter and they can always be cut per 3 leds (so either 5cm length or 2,5cm length).
Some specs I've found on a 120 leds per meter strip:
Color temp: 2400-2700K
Flux: 800 lumens per meter
Power: 9,6W per meter
I think these leds would do a great job, because instead of lets say 9 1W leds I could have 120 0,08W leds, they loose lumens wise but beat the hell out of hp leds if you look at spread and if they are placed as close as possible to the screen they should be good. The disadvantage is that they don't come in the exact wavelengths we would use with hp leds...
Jb
Ps. here is a pic of a small fixture I tried on a 1g tank.
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/v...h/e5737b4c.jpg
Those are 3528 leds and 60 leds per meter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbowser
I think that these are the leds they have altho havent checked the specs yet...will do so during the week...and will try to take some pictures
Is the new UAS more efficient than the old design or just easier to build Is there any reason to tear apart my SM100s and convert them?
This seems to be very much in testing mode still. I wouldn't rip down your existing one....if it ain't broke don't fix it!Quote:
Originally Posted by thatgrimguy
That's what I figured. Just wanted to hear someone else say it too!Quote:
Originally Posted by mess7777
Hello Grim,Quote:
Originally Posted by thatgrimguy
Its nice to see you over here. As mentioned there is still testing going on still for this design. I would keep your SM100 intact for now. You could DIY a test unit on a different tank if you have one.
Looks like Master Yoda should have his finished up pretty soon. I think he is doing the waterfall design.
Kerry.
Kerry!Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry
I figured with it all in and working it wouldn't make sense to swap. I do need to replumb mine though. I'm not getting nearly enough flow to it and the micro bubbles in the tank are driving me mad. Time for a new plumbing scheme. But, I figured if I was going to do all that, it may make sense to wait and see the new design.
Once a good way to make this look good in DT is established, I'll add one to the 150g I have at my business that is sump less.
Overall I'd say to consider upflows and waterfalls chemically the same. Later on we can see if the bubble/carbon delivery of the upflows really do fix the limiting carbon issue.
So by that are you saying that the bubbles might reduce the scrubber's tendency to suck up bicarbonate when CO2 is lacking, since it is getting CO2 from the bubbles? I dose Alk like crazy and it is disproportionate to Cal so I know it's the scrubber. I think it was Ace or Kerry that got better growth just by putting a fan on the screen so it seems that blowing air into the slot tube on the waterfall scrubber would reduce bicarbonate uptake as well.
Totally.
Floyd R Turbo - please look at post 272Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo
This is when we know SM was replaced by a 19 year old valley girl.Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
Thats Totally Funny!!!! Love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by joelespinoza
I get the same Floyd. I thought about trying the fan but my 40G is an open top and I already top off at LEAST 1/2 gallon a day. Maybe I could try to add a hose to the feed pipe to the slot pipe like a power head has and pull air in that way.
what about dealing with bubbles? any air stone bubbles would be a pain to remove in a saltwater set up. especially if in the display. or am i missing something?
What would benifit from the air injection the most? Air direct to the roots or the leaf? and what part is actually taking up the nutrients?
The reason I say this is if you could run the bubbles up the center of the canvas essentially having 2 back to back but with a gap. say the distance of pvc pipe (Floyd style) at the bottom where the air is exiting the stone or possible direct from the tubing with pin holes (pending on what size bubbles are more benificial). With the top of the canvas actually joining or an even smaller gap say half of whats at the bottom like a chimney / \
Your not missing nothing. I am trying to deal with micro bubbles in my HOB test unit. The HOB has venturi air injection that creates micro bubbles like a skimmer. I might have to not use this feature and put air stones at the bottom instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmachine
Got mine put together last night. My bubbler and screen is mounted right above the slotted pipe I have coming from my overflow. Plenty of bubbles/flow going across the screen. It's lit by a 100 watt cfl for now til I build a led fixture for it.
First, I've never had an algae scrubber of any type and have a one year old "typical" reef tank. I plan to keep my skimmer running at first but have it on a timer to only run during a certain time of day. I would eventually phase it out hopefully. I also have the typical reactors: GFO, GAC. I would phase out GFO but keep running carbon more than likely. I currently have a stand alone 10 gallon refugium with some LR, chaeto, and gracilaria... no sand. It's fed with a small MJ style pump and drains to my sump into the return section, skipping the skimmer. The UAS would go into the stand alone refugium. At first, what time a day do you think would be best to schedule my skimmer to be on? and for how long?
Now to my plan for the UAS. I'm trying to decide between two ideas. First, I could just use the airstone and tie the screen to it very similar to Scott's pictures here: Thanks Scott! http://algaescrubber.net/forums/show...t26-s-UAS-Test
My second idea would be to feed my refugium with a MJ1200 with the venturi hose attached. The water/air output of the MJ would go through vinyl tubing to the bottom of my refugium. I would attach a small diameter (undecided on size) pvc to the vinyl tube. I would cut a slot in the pvc for the water/air to be pushed out of. I would attach the screen to the pvc (undecided on how) for the water/air to move up the screen. I'm also undecided on screen size and bulb wattage. The screen would be lit from behind the refugium and be one sided for now.
My main concern here is bubbles and salt creep. I plan to insert a thin, flexible piece of acrylic into my sump to act as a baffle before my drain. It would fit snuggly into the tank against each side and rise above the water line but not above the height of the tank. I'm also going to get a piece of glass cut to fit perfectly on top of my refugium above the section before the baffle (the only part that should have bubbles in it). This glass top should keep most (I hope) of the salt creep from getting out of the tank.
I would keep the rock in there along with the other macro algaes. I would expect the UAS to out-compete them for the nutrients and things would kind of take of themselves.
A couple of things. I have a one year old and my wife is less than thrilled with me spending a bunch of time with my tank (which I'm fine with because I'd rather spend time with the family anyway). What I'm getting at is don't expect this to move along very fast. I do what I can, when I can. And, I'm battling an issue with my Apex at the moment which demands my free time. Second thing, feel free to rip my ideas a new one!!! :-) I'm okay with constructive criticism and welcome it seeing how I'm new to algae scrubbers and not an expert (yet) on reef tanks :-)
Thanks for taking a look!!!
Both. Any algae that grows needs turbulence, CO2, and light.Quote:
Air direct to the roots or the leaf? and what part is actually taking up the nutrients?
Ooops, I'll copy this over once the actual build starts or is complete. My bad... Still let me know what you think though!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob.morgan78
on reef tanks that use an overflow and sump,,,would it be possible to capture and re-direct the bubbles coming out of the drain,,,and use them to "feed" the upflow scrubber in the sump? almost like an up side down reverse durso? No airstone or pump required! see where i am going with this? We all have tons of flow AND bubbles coming out of our drains..........
Yes. Taken care of :)
Hi!
How often do you have to scrape the tank glass in front of the screen? Do you have to scrape the tank glass daily?
I mean, as soon as there is any algae growth on it, it'll have a huge impact, blocking the light falling on the screen. And as soon as there is any growth on the glass, it must be growing like crazy as the amount of light there is much higher than on the screen.
Hi everyone. I have always been a proponent of turf scrubbers. and this new up flow thing has my diy juices flowing. Since I just started a new system and am not really using a skimmer or gfo reactor. What if i took the venturi pump off my skimmer and used that for an upflow? does it need the bubbles or are the bubbles just making the water flow up past the screen?
wouldn't that be a kick in the pants to the skimmer companies to take one apart and turn it into a scrubber :}
Yes that would work, but it's just the air that is making the water flow, so just an air pump is more plancton/living food friendly..
I.E. I've got a patent on that LOL
Just the same as the screen.Quote:
How often do you have to scrape the tank glass in front of the screen?
I've let it over-grow a few times, and the screen kept on going.Quote:
blocking the light falling on the screen
Needs the bubbles (air; CO2; carbon)Quote:
does it need the bubbles or are the bubbles just making the water flow up past the screen?
so mixing the two (air, water) over a screen for an upflow is good? I don't want to build anything comercially just have very limited space in my sump and if I can use my skimmer for a clay pigeon than it would kill two birds with one stone(or shotgun shell)Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo
Hello all,
First of all I would highly recommend led-dna! I ordered 9 660nm leds about a week ago and I got them already! (less then a week from hong kong to europe!)
I thinking about ordering a dimmable driver so I could further fine tune the uas.
I'm aso considering going AIO, this is the simplest and best design I could come up with:
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/v...ah/aiouas3.jpg
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/v...oah/aiouas.jpg
The compartment will be 5-8cm deep and will either be placed on one of the ends or on the back, depending on where I'm going to place the tank.
For now I'm still waiting for my tank to be completed..., but I know for sure that my light fixture is on its way!
Jb
I would definitely go for a dimmable set up so you don't risk over exposure.
I am very new at this alge escrubber, i went to some one house, and I almost went crazy to see the results that she achive with this system.
So since I am moving everything from my 55 gallon mix reef to a new 75 rimless I will give it a try, hope dont bother no one with my silly questions
First i have a pump for bubles that has 2 outputs, can i just added to a a pipe as in the picture above and if so how the wholes should go?
Second; if i dont close the end of the t the presure for the bubles will escape, or not
jbowser,
How water will be moved through your filter setup? Do you expect air bubbles to move enough water ? Or you will be adding return pump ?
Your baffles could be improved if down section would be wider. You want water to go down very slowly to give time for bubbles to separate.
Function of last baffle is unclear for me too.
From left to right:Quote:
Originally Posted by kotlec
Water enters at the top, goes down through filtermedia.
Goes up through the uas, most bubbles will pop at the top, but some will go down with the water.
The last baffle forces the water to go up again for the last bubbles and on the bottom of compartment 3 A return pump will pump the water back to the dt.
Hope this makes any sense.
Jb
AbsolutelyQuote:
Originally Posted by jbowser
I am really interested in the new UAS design. I have a few problems to overcome since the only place a scrubber will fit in my system is the sump. There is too much flow in the sump and all the electrical equipment is very close. I would like to add some salt spray protection and flow restriction to make the scrubber more effective and less messy. This is the first prototype I have come up with. Please forgive my poor sketch-up skills. I need some suggestions on how to proceed. :D
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q.../UASproto1.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q.../UASproto2.jpg
Are the air bubbles and sump flow in the bottom enough too keep the nutrients in the scrubber the same levels as the tank? Or will I have to have to add some flow into the box? I was thinking about a small 30-50 GPH supply line/pump if needed.
If the screen is going to be less then 12" square and the display tank is only 20G will four 10k leds work to light this? I would prefer these over red since there is often frags/corals ect in the sump.
Nice design! I think if you put holes on the entire plate where the airstone sits on, not just the 3 holes you see in the picture, then it would be fine without an additional pump. What is the top hole for? Just to release gases? I think if you just stuck that in a sump and lit it on both sides (which seems to be one of the more difficult aspects to this UAS design) I think it would probably function properly.
Sadly, 10k LEDs are probably the worse color for growing algae. If your only choice was using white, I would pick a combo of warm to cool white, similar to red/blue, so if using 4 white LEDs, I would pick 3 warm white (to cover the red spectrum) and 1 cool white (to cover the blue).
Yeah that is a good idea, or to go even further I guess I could just use 2 or 3 cross braces to hold up the airstone. That way there is the least amount of acrylic impeding the flow.
So I was sitting in my living room with a sheet of screen in my hand and an idea struck me. Why am I thinking 2 dimensionally . BANG! I roll the screen into a tube. I think I may be on to something. So I grab an old skimmer I had laying around and pop the top off it. Drop the screen in.. progress. Tomorrow I will run to the local diy box store( home defunko or low e's) and finish the build with a sealed top. right now it is just using the old collection cup lid.
Some photos of the process. here is the tube of screen I made. This should in effect keep me from ever having to cut zip ties everytime i want to clean the screen and can be done with a brush.
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/.../stuffs003.jpg
In case you are wondering why I had random zip ties sticking out of the screen. I used the lock part for spacing to keep the screen off the plastic tube.
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/.../stuffs004.jpg
The water level sits just at the top of the screen with no adjustments and the bubbles move up the whole section equally.
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/.../stuffs006.jpg
A few things.
1) how do i light this design ? I was thinking led strips wound around the tube and dipped in liquid plastic. problems being if they burn out it would be a bitch to replace them and possibly heat.
2) I think I may need to remove the inner tube from the bubble plate as it is currently not exposing the bottom of the screen to I.M.O. enough bubbles. But it is late and My creative juices are leaking out of my head. So tomorrow perhaps.
Thoughts? Feelings? Bad good ugly doesn't matter . Just trying to get people thinking 3 dimensionally.
so is there an advantage to the UAS as oppose to waterfall style scrubbers? like mainly i mean growth and scrub power?
@Wopadobop
I think your "3d" design is just complicating things more.
And even more if your gonna place the whole unit IN the tank or sump! Lighting should be waterproofed and be roubd, which should be fine if you used ledstrips but not so much if you want to use hp leds...
In my opinion 2d is the only easy way to go, but who knows maybe the algae will grow like mad in there!
Why not give a jbj fuge light a try? From inside the tube and leave the outside as is?
My 2ct ;)
Jb
The strip LED idea has been brought up before but the intensity/power of the light was questionable. Great idea, I use a HOB with an air venturi to put air to the scrubber. You can see the whole post of my HOB test here, its after SM's post: http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/fres...ime-algae.html
The circular version will work but is 1-sided unless you have lights on the inside and outside. If you can keep the screen 10 to 20 mm away from the plastic, it might help give growth room.
Aside from the obvious mechanical advantages of being able to place it in the display or sump, and not needing a water pump, chemically it should have the advantage of not being limited by carbon/CO2, and being less limited by matting-down.Quote:
so is there an advantage to the UAS as oppose to waterfall style scrubbers?
I had seriously considered an ATS before but as I have a large amount of macro in my system,that I didn't want to lose, I chose to try vodka dosing. After several months of that my cyano and hair algae are no longer a problem buy not I have this creepy translucent stuff growing everywhere. So now I'm back to considering an ATS again instead of continually chasing my issues with vodka/biopellets,/ skimmer/etc.
My biggest issue is the amount of light. I'm assuming 120 square inches and 120w. But 120w seems like a massive amount of light. Plus I'm not eve sure how to get that much light in a 10" x 12" single sided area. Thoughts?
The creepy stuff more than likely is a bacterial bloom. Be careful with that as it depletes the oxygen in your tank. I would stop dosing vodka nowQuote:
Originally Posted by SWhite
Vodka's for drinkin' not for dosin'.
I've been dialing it back for a couple of weeks now. I didn't want to suddenly stop using it as I don't want anything to spike in my system. Plus the weening period will give me time to get my ATS/UAS set up.Quote:
Originally Posted by jwoyshnar
And I can't 'drink' so the vodka was just taking up space, heh.
Don't think your cheato tumbler would fair well with a scrubber if it's on the same system. If you can't decide to go ATS waterfall or UAS, personally UAS seems cheaper and easier if you haven't already spent loads of time setting up an ATS waterfall.
So far, recommendations are the same for UAS as with a waterfall: Based on feeding. Are you really feeding 10 cubes a day?Quote:
My biggest issue is the amount of light. I'm assuming 120 square inches and 120w.
Oh I'm assuming that all of my macro will eventually die. But I'd rather have a healthier system than the macro. I'm looking to add a few more horses this summer and if my current system has issues keeping up with the current 4, 7 would cause real issues. I can go either way, ATS vs UAS, I've got a number of available spaces to set up either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garf
EDIT: I'll be giving away my macro when the times come so hopefully there won't be much left to die off.
I'd be aiming at a one sided screen with a likely 5 cube daily feedings after I get the additional horses.Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
EDIT the 2nd: I'm likely aiming at using LEDs, but I find humor in that I'd have more LEDS on the scrubber than I do over my 75g.
More watts on your scrubber then on your dt? you know you need like 1/6 of the watts if you go leds on a ats/uas?Quote:
Originally Posted by SWhite
Jb
Really? I had read it was 1/2. 1/6th would make it a no-brainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbowser
Actually it's not really clear how much LED it would need. But I put 1/2 so that they could be run less hours if needed.
Have you got a rock / horse combo, would love to see pics of that.
Added link in my sig with pics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garf
Your rocks seem devoid of life. Is this a brand new set up? I think you need to do a UAS / ATS ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by SWhite
Tank has been up just shy of a year. Everything grows very slowly at my temps, so there is very little spread. As well I don't blast my tank with light as you would a reef tank as I just need illumination, not blind seahorses. Plus I don't have any SPS or LPS as they are potentially bad tank mates for seahorses. I don't supplement any Ca so the coraline grows very slowly as well. I trim back the macro regularly so it doesn't get out of control. So all that is left is softies, which grow slowly. But I've got 5 different types/colors of mushrooms, 2 different zoanthids, 6 different leathers, 6 different macro algae, 3 different anthelia and a couple patches of tiny clove polyps. EDIT and some GSP that is actually spreading fairly fast-ish. Lots of stuff, just doesn't grow real fast. Just added a quick full tank shot to the pics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garf
Sorry for derailing the thread. So would a happy medium be like 1/4 of the wattage in LEDs with the potential to dim or reduce light phase? Oh and I miss calculated, I have 84w in LEDs over the tank which would be less that the 120w of CFLs.
Even soft corals require calcium, they form spicules within their internal structure that forms their shape, these are formed from calcium. I think "stuff, just doesn't grow real fast." is something you need to pay attention to. This will be a problem for you long term unless you take action. Pretty sure horses use lots of calcium too, but don't quote me on that!Quote:
Originally Posted by SWhite
You know before a bunch of life stuff happened, as of a few months ago, my numbers were low but acceptable. Hadn't tested in a while and thanks to your post I tested again and now my Ca and Mag are quite low...Ugh now something else I have to get squared away. Oh the life of a marine aquarist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garf
Glad to be of assistance
Start a new thread on horses with ATS/UAS.
Once I am ready start adding the equipment I'll create a progress thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garf
To help increase bubble contact on a single sided screen what about a slight tilt in the screen? It would seem to force contact while not giving up much in the difference of distance to the lights top to bottom. The heatsink would be where my LEDs would be.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...mbo/tilted.jpg
Yes, that's what I did with the CFL screen... it touches the glass at the front. Thick algae gets compressed, however. Also I had two tetra's get stuck there.
They got stuck in the algae mat?
I'm assuming that with the top against the glass the fish were caught in the upstream between the glass and screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo
Yea they got pressed and stuck.
dumb tetras
SM, when are we going to get this months addition?
Nothing more until June
http://algaescrubber.net/forums/show...ility-Schedule
Ok, apologies in advance if this has been posted and trialled already but at 37 pages thats a lot of reading!!!:
I couldn't find a wooden airstone of any length in the UK, only the blue things which disintegrate after a short period in salt water and then I had a thought....why do I need an airstone, why don't I just cut a slot in the airline and slot the screen in there? Just trialled a very basic version and it seems to work just one side really well but I literally just threw the screen and airline in a jug of water as I don't have any airline long enough!
Since airline is plastic, all you need is a stanley knife and ruler to cut and cable ties to fix screen to airline similar to what you do with a standard waterfall design. My thought is to pass the airline through some PVC piping which will cause the airline to sink to the bottom of the sump
Has this already been tried?
Steve
I thought about doing that, kind of like the bubble walls. That's exactly what they use, just a piece of airline tubing with holes in it. I don't see why it would not work. You can get hard tubing in larger diameters too and could poke holes all over it with a hot pin or something. I sure would like to try that one of these days when I get any free time. Oh yeah, I don't get that. Darn!
I am using a pvc pipe with holes that i made with a needle.
Did also try to drill 1mm holes, but 1mm holes seemed to be a little to big, using a needle was making about the right size holes.
Have anybody tried the wooden air stones used in protein air skimmers? they make very small bubbles, could small bubbles be better than big bubbles?
Or just put the screen into the slot in the tubing.
I have slots cut in my overflow pipe which my screen is attached.
I don't think he meant like in a waterfall scrubber, he's saying take a piece of the hard airline tubing and cut it lengthwise and just put the screen into the 'slot' created. Not PVC pipe slot hanging from above, airline tubing on the bottom.
Oh dang. You could just take flex hose airline tubing and slice it lengthwise. SM I think you just dropped a hint you hint dropper you
Well actually I think that one was already posted a few days ago.
I knew what he meant. I have my pipe running down and across the bottom with the slots pointing upward. I get tons of air sucked down with the overflow that it's like a bubbler. I tried it first with the air stone and didn't need it. If slots are done right, you won't need a air stone, no pump needed and really nothing extra.
would cleaning the screen(above) be a PIA? what about having the air stone affixed to the bottom of a chamber and having a seperate screen that slides into a channel, when it's time to clean simply remove the top(cover) and pull the screen out?? wish I knew how to draw what I am thinking of:(
What about a soaker hose with an air tube going into it? Add a tight slot for the screen and supply air? I have not tired.. just thought about it a few minutes ago. What you think?
They actually make hoses for underwater bubbling.
Hi!
Can't find whether this has been answered yet: when I turn OFF the lights for 6 hours in an UAS setup, do I also turn down the air supply on the screen, or does the air turn ON all the time?
Hey.. Just thought if It will help you guys.. I was wondering if create a baffle say 3 inches width and length wherever you want, make the two baffles to be a triangle sicilione glue them on bottom of sump? be sure to included air stone inside the triangle, top of triangle are slightly open for needle canvas screen insert in the triangle.. that way it will control air bubbles swim upward straight sides of screen?
Just thought...
Has anyone had issues finding the right kind of air stone?
I've tried two different models so far and they both don't seem to work properly. The first one is flat with a plastic base and only bubbles from the top. It's 10" long and the bubbles are pathetic. So, I tried a "bubble wall" version that is like a thin tube and green but the bubbles are super fine and it just seems to sort of fizz. Any specific brands people are using?
Leave the air on all the time.
You can get a larger pump to get more air than fizz.
Design question/idea.... I am going to use a 30g long tank, raise it above my sump but still under my aquarium, add two 8"x22" screens attached to bubblers, 27 LED's per screen (660nm), bring water in from one end and have an overflow box on the other end for return to sump. That should give me about 44g of food per day or 1.56oz of food.
What do you think of this setup? The screen will be placed ~2" from the LED array on each side of the tank.
Is there a lph guideline for bubbles?
Do you think those underwater hose bubblers are good for the UAS?
No lph guide yet. Seems that more is better.
1 cube is about 3 grams. So 44 grams is about 14 cubes. Needs about 176 square inches, with up to a total of 88 watts of LED.
Okay, added a few more LED's and think I have a good plan to start with. Will order parts tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
What bubbler setup has been found to work best so far?
I have seen posts where small fish have been seen eating the screen algae, but in the absence of fish, has anyone seen mysids eating the copepods on the screen ( or at least prowling around the screen ). Seems this screen could well mean a mysid heaven / breeding ground.
My pump could be double maybe even triple the out put imo, It is very quiet (happy) once the cabinet door is closed it is on par of the noise from the bubbles bursting, I would assume that double the size double the noise or close to it.
Im using the flexi hose air stone 30cm in length on this unit. Also I have found that the smaller the distance the air has to travel the more air/pressure you gain.
The length of the air hose is approx 50cm I could shave more off this as well by raising the pump above the water line which is recomended. The flexi stone is sitting just under the water line.. not at the bottom like some. My canvas lays over a baffle with water running over it a glass plate on top with led sitting on this the hose sits up stream leting the bubbles run over the canvas. I dont want to go on about the way im doing it just a bit of a talk about the pump as this is one of 4 factors in this design. Bubble size is small and cost of pump was $24 au
Spec below
Hailea Aco-6602
power 2.5W
pressure 0.013mpa
output 4L/min (240L/hr)
noise <40db
flow is adjustable (I have it all the way up)
This is the second from the bottom in the range they have 2 more above this one the next one up in the range doubles in output 8l/min then the top one is 10L/min
I hope this has helped.. I will edit this post to add what I have seen in growth.. Its not an ideal set up but I was getting loads of pods on it before the added air. It will just be interesting to see the diffrence with the changes I have made.
Should a thread be started on just air pumps and airstones?