Ultra-High Nutrient Tank - No Scrubber Growth

And...just to make things more interesting with this discussion...let's compare The Japanese Steakhouse tank to the Chinese Restaurant Tank I previously mentioned.

Here is the album showing before and after the initial clean-up of the Chinese Restaurant tank back in late 2011: http://s611.photobucket.com/albums/t...WLR/?start=all

That pic of the sponge in the sump is 100% clogged. They hadn't done any maintenance in 3 years - none - just top offs. So I cleaned up the sump and got it working right, scrubbed all the rocks, siphoned out 1/2 of the gravel (no choice - it was a 1/2" thick layer of detritus bound to the top of the gravel) eventually added more LR, got rid of the bio-balls, put in filter socks and a skimmer, it was doing OK. But the owner got lazy on adding top-off water and would just unplug the skimmer when the pump started sucking air, and didn't want to spend $$ on water changes anymore, just filter socks, so I sold the skimmer and now I just replace filter socks every so often and he tops off with water from the local grocery store's drinking water system.

I replaced the lamps in the Coralife 4x96W Power Compact fixture about a year ago and the GHA in the tank completely exploded. Here is what it looks like now, a year after I did that.

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps12c29179.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps70e3dc07.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/t...pse3aaa418.jpg

Now before you go chastising me on this one as well...I tried my best on this tank at one time. The owner I was dealing with spoke decent English, then as I mentioned he told me to stop all maintenance ($$ issues) and then he sold the restaurant to his uncle and now only one guy speaks English there and he is the cashier. So what I have resorted to is making this tank my next scrubber test tank for no charge (maybe just free food). At least, that was the plan.

But the reason I post these is that the N and P in this tank was also sky-high. N was over 1100 when I started in 2011, and I did a series of rock-scrubbing and huge PWCs (sometimes 3x in a week) to get it down below 100, where it stayed pretty well until the owner stopped the skimmer and told me to minimize maintenance.

When I changed the lights and the GHA exploded, I saw the N drop 200 points in 2 weeks. Not kidding. Haven't tested it lately though. But I know that P is high as well.

So this is a case that could challenge the thoughts presented about the Japanese Steakhouse tank. Why is this high-nutrient tank growing algae so well?

Consider the differences:

1) I didn't tear this tank down and soak the rocks
2) I have never dipped the rocks in FW or anything
3) tank is fed one table shrimp/day, the puffer decimates it and the damsels eat the remains
4) tank has much higher lighting in a smaller volume, shallower tank (4x96W in 125 vs 4x65w in 225)
5) the Chinese tank has a CUC, or at least it did at one time. Japanese tank has no CUC (yet)

For anyone thinking about getting into the maintenance business, these are the kinds of situations you will come across all the time. Poorly maintained systems that need an overhaul, and clients unwilling to spend the money to have it done. Be thankful when you find the ones that want to, because their tanks end up looking like this:

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/t...2/IMG_0214.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/t...2/IMG_0217.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/t...2/IMG_0227.jpg

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/t...2/IMG_0236.jpg

And the scrubber works like it should

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/t...2/IMG_0200.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilk

Have you considered the idea that the air quality in a Chinese restaurant is contributing to the heavy bio load and much of that is settling in the tank? I'm thinking there's a good amount of cooking oils that are airborne and may limit the effectiveness of the ATS. A larger skimmer may be necessary.

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The Japanese Steakhouse has a Hibachi Room that is across the restaurant and around the corner, with extremely large vent hoods above each station. The kitchen has negative air pressure, there is always air moving past the curtains, sucking them towards the kitchen area. I do not believe there is any bio-load contribution due to the kitchen area or Hibachi grill area.

The Chinese restaurant kitchen is also tucked away within the building, there is a passageway and much ventilation so same story.

Good thought though.

I would thing twice before eating in that chinese restaurant.

I hear ya. That was my initial method of getting my foot in the door, that and getting their FW 225 up and running again. It was a discus tank (and gorgeous) and then they all died with the previous owner took over, so I made it a Cichlid tank and it's doing OK.

Bad thing is, that tank is literally in the entryway. I took that FTS from the doorway into the restaurant. And they don't seem to care to fix it (or at least to pay me to fix it)

Well I'm sure you thought about asking them if they feed the tank with things they shouldn't, or excessively :) Odd situation to say the least considering how you successfully reverted the tank in the SH to being a beautiful display. There is certainly an X factor at play and until you discover what that is, you'll probably be seeing the same results.

At the Japanese restaurant, they feed a DIY FOWLR food that I made for them, and I cut it into pre-portioned amounts. They feed maximum once/day about 1.5-2 cubes worth, sometimes every other day (but daily on most cases).

Cyanos both outcompete algaes for iron, and send out siderophores which have a toxic effect (Allelopathic) on green algae. The toxic effects can be treated by activated carbon; sounds reasonable to me;

http://europepmc.org/abstract/AGR/IN...X07rrrSyE5TC.4

Worth a try at least !

Alright...so maybe the non-tear-down answer is to replace the sump with the 40B, add the skimmer back in, add GFO and Carbon and do a big PWC (100g) and see if the scrubber can take off.

I would probably also take out 1/2 of the rock and nuke it after the N and P were dropping, put it back in and let the bacteria re-populate for a while, then nuke the other half.

At least I can present them options now I think.

After considering these posts by Garf on my site

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Garf

Piecing a few things together;
1). Cyano loves low iron environments as they outcompete algea in these conditions.
2). Cyano exudates chelate iron (to capture it)
3). Excess phosphates can cause iron limitation
4). Algae exudates may chelate (bind) iron making them unusable
5). GFO may leach iron and removes phos.

I'm thinking maybe the combination of the cyano mechanism for surviving in low iron environments in combination with high phosphates has effectively removed available iron for the algae. I think I've read somewhere that this reduction in iron would cause the effect of slow, low light growth (in the slot pipe), whereas high light photo system damage cannot be repaired, so high light areas could not sustain algae growth. Iron limitation is also indicated by lower chlorophyll levels and an increase in carotenoids (brown growth in the water). My thinking is add GFO and a chelated iron suppliment. From memory, potassium is also linked to iron limitation (but don't quote me on that).

Cyano both outcompetes algae for iron, in low iron environments and gives off siderophores which it seems has an unidentified toxic effect on some green algaes (Allelopathy). This however can be neutralised by adding activated carbon (pretty sure this is the same effect I have surmised previously with algae vs algae).

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I'm thinking that the cyano (if that's what it is) in the presence of high P (which the rocks were likely soaked with, and it never got soaked out) are likely actually preventing GHA from growing. This likely explains why zero GHA grows in this tank, while is it rampant in the other tank.

This leads me to only one conclusion: If I were to add GFO and Carbon to the Japanese restaurant tank to eliminate the P and reduce the allelopathic effect of the cyano on the GHA, I will in effect create a rainforest of GHA in the Japanese tank.

So, unfortunately, I think the only answer here is to nuke the tank.

The only question then is - do I need to nuke the sand too? Or can I just pull this out and rinse it with a high-pressure hose as if it was new sand?

Following this thread.

My tank has slow, brown growth with cyano constantly growing on my sandbed.