Pix of ATS and Phosphate Questions

[TankTinkerer]

I have an HOB overflow box with two exit pipes. I designed an ATS so that the water exits the HOB overflow box from the two pipes, down to the single pipe holding the screens of the ATS, then out of the wastebasket and into the single entry pipe of the Wet-Dry filter. I didn't have much room in the living room, so it sits on the business end of the peninsula tank we have between the living room and den. I have a Photobucket website at

http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z363/TankTinkerer/

where I'v eposted pictures of my set up. I wanted a rigid screen because I thought that it would be easier to clean, so I glued one screen to a large piece of vertical eggcrate, then glued the other screen to the other side of the eggcrate and drilled the hole on the top pipe large enough to slide the exposed eggcrate into the pipe. I glued the eggcrate to the inside of the pipe, as seen in the pictures. SantaMonica here told me that I would end up having problems with the gap between the screens trapping dead particles but it hasn't been a problem so far. Because I misjudged the distance that the pipe is from the bottom of the bucket, I have about an inch of water that "pools" in the bucket. After about a month, I started to get some really nice looking red and clumpy green algae. I wasn't sure about letting that algae grow crazy so, for the first month, I used to drop a turbo snail in there to help clean up for an hour or two when I was cleaning the screen on the weekends. I also didn't trust the ATS to work overnight (drop the phosphate to zero right away), so I left my large bag of Chemipure Elite in the bottom of the Wet-Dry, to make sure the phosphates didn't shoot up rapidly in a day or two. After the first month (and the fact that the Chemipure Elite bag was gettign old), I started to see the phosphates rise to about 0.25. I bought a couple of filter bags called Filter-Eeze and have started using them. The phosphates are down to about 0.05 to 0.1. Now, I'm starting to see the algae in the bottom of the bucket die off. I started thinking of that as my "mini-refugium" and wasn't worried about the growth, especially since the main Display Tank didn't have algae.

Does anyone have an ATS with an inch or more water in the bottom growing algae there and not in the tank? Since I started to use new filter bags to remove phosphates, is that why the algae in the ATS is dying off? Does the filter bag take out the phosphates the algae needs to grow? If these filter bags lose their effectiveness in 3-4 weeks, can I take them out and let the ATS do it all on it's own? Also, I've never had really thick algae growth on the screen. I have been wanting to take pictures and always remember AFTER the cleaning, but I remembered it this Sat about halfway through, so you can see in the pictures what the "clean" portion of the screen vs. the unclean portion looks like. Will the screen develop really "thick" algae if I leave the filter bags out next time? The algae on the screen is really no more than a 1-2 mm thick and it doesn't grow in clumps or strands, as you see in most places.

Any suggestions?

[SantaMonica]

I glued one screen to a large piece of vertical eggcrate, then glued the other screen to the other side of the eggcrate

Not good... This will also block all light from one bulb from going through the screen to help the other side, which is the advantage of a two-sided screen.

I glued the eggcrate to the inside of the pipe

Not good... you need to be able to remove the screen so you can clean the slot.

I used to drop a turbo snail in there to help clean up for an hour

This is only putting nutrients back in the water. For highest filtering, you should clean the bottom of the bucket like you do the screen. But you don't have to clean it if you don't have time.

I also didn't trust the ATS to work overnight (drop the phosphate to zero right away), so I left my large bag of Chemipure Elite in the bottom of the Wet-Dry, to make sure the phosphates didn't shoot up rapidly in a day or two.

???

After the first month (and the fact that the Chemipure Elite bag was gettign old)

Chemipure does not remove Phosphate; from what I remember it is GAC, and removes organics.

I started to see the phosphates rise to about 0.25

Lack of scrubber filtering, due to the screen design, and the snail, and small bulbs.

I bought a couple of filter bags called Filter-Eeze and have started using them. The phosphates are down to about 0.05 to 0.1. Now, I'm starting to see the algae in the bottom of the bucket die off.

Whatever is in the "Filter-Eeze" is removing phosphate. This is killing the algae.

I've never had really thick algae growth on the screen.

Your screen design is part of the reason. And small bulbs. And the snail.

Will the screen develop really "thick" algae if I leave the filter bags out next time?

No.

The algae on the screen is really no more than a 1-2 mm thick and it doesn't grow in clumps or strands, as you see in most places.

Another reason for problems with an eggcrate-screen is that it's hard to fit eggcrate into a slot in a pipe to get good flow.

Solution: Rebuild the pipe and screen correctly: 1/8 inch slot, and a single layer of roughed-up plastic canvas. Remove all other filters and socks. Lastly, those bulbs are way too small for that wide screen; they should be at least 33 watts CFL's. And clean out the bottom of the can each week, until things are good, then you can let it slide for a while.

[TankTinkerer]

Okay, SantaMonica, thanks for the help. I wondered about the size of the bulbs. I thought using the snail to clean would get the junk out, but I guess when they poop, they put the nutrients back into the water.

I did indeed buy the ingredients for a new pipe attachment. I will drill that this afternoon and then add the end caps and the other cap that fits to the T-adapter.

Then, I'll rip off one of the screens from the egg crate and score it with the hole saw on the smooth side, then use the zip ties to keep it in place.

BTW, Chemipure makes a regular GAC bag and an "Elite" bag, which is supposed to help remove the phosphate. When it runs out and isn't effective anymore, I'll remove it and go with just the screen. Will I need to keep the GAC in a mesh bag in the bottom of the Wet-Dry? My rocks have cycled.

[SantaMonica]

I don't think it matter where you keep it.

[TankTinkerer]

Well, I didn't mean to ask where to put the GAC bag, but whether I'd still need that. We discusssed that maybe I should take out the GFO phosphate reducer (currenly in a mesh bag) after it has run its cycle, so it gives the ATS a chance to grow the algae, so I was wondering if I will still need the GAC in the sump. My guess is to remove the GFO and keep the GAC.

Today, I bought 2 X 42 Watt Spiral CFL lights which are equivalent to 150 watts in incandescent bulbs. They are about twice the size of the 23 watt bulbs I had in my ATS. I'll re-work the fixtures for these "more than double in size" bulbs.

I have the parts to re-make another PVC pipe to hold a single piece of screen with zip ties. That's the project next week.

Another question: I currently have a 650 gph return pump (output at 5 feet) and 3 internal powerheads moving water inside the tank. I was thinking I wasn't getting enough flow through the filter, so I bought a Maxijet 1200, which should give me 800-900 gph at 5 feet. When I installed that pump with the current ATS, I had water spewing ALL over the bucket.

If I design the new pipe with JUST a 1/8th inch hole for water to "drip" down the screen, how can it handle the larger flow of the Maxihet 1200? Am I trying to move more water through a vertical "bucket-stlye" ATS than it can handle?

As always, thanks for your help.

[SantaMonica]

You can remove the GAC whenever you want.

A 1/8 slot needs at least 35 gph per inch, and can probably go as high as 55 if needed. Calculate and/or adjust based on length of slot. You can always ball-valve the return pump.